Problems with yardage

Over tbe years there have been numerous articles on 606 relating to distances. And this isn't another of those. What i'd like to know is why people are so hostile to people stating they hit it whatever. Personally i have no issues with someone stating a number as they tend to caveat if a high handicap or cite some other failing if low.

So come on guys. Why so cynical?

Mainly because, as a rule, they're often not remotely believable.

Because they quote stats that would have them among the top 50 ball strikers on tour.

Doesn't bother me at all how far someone says they can hit it, usually it tends to be false as based on their yardages you'd think they'd make DJ look like miss daisy!

My old man to this day a great ball striker losing a few yards but whenever plays matchplay he puts iron covers on all irons(doesn't normally use them) but he puts them on wrong irons e.g. He puts the 8iron cover on his 6iron and his 7iron cover on his 9iron (you can work out the rest through his method) then when he plays he'll take say a 6iron at a par 3 and his opponent see's the 8iron cover and the amount of times when I caddied aa a youngster you'd see him hit the green and his opponent not want to see shorter take the 8iron come up way short and then try to work out how it could be this older guy is 2 clubs longer used to really play with their minds and generally he would win.

My old man used to say let this be a lesson play your own game play your own yardages and don't get caught in a d1ck measuring contest with your opponent!

Anyway that's me done for the day I'm off to finish my conversation with my friend gentleman jack in the bar

Mav - that's brilliant, great stuff from your dad! So great in fact, i'm going to give it a go!

i've seen tour players make birdies.
i have also made birdies.
i am not a tour player though.

i've seen tour players hit 300 yard drives.
i have also hit 300 yard drives.
i am not a tour player though.

why is it so unbelievable? tour players are not super humans. hitting the ball a long way is only partly about technique. the rest is brute force. we can replicate some shots that tour players make regularly.

I tend to believe the low handicappers more than the mid- to high-handicapper. The low handicappers are more believable because the MUST know more about their accurate distances to maintain that lower handicap (though it doesn't necessarily mean they aren't prone to a little exaggeration when talking to others - but in their own minds they know)

mid- to high-handicappers tend (IMO) to remember the better-struck shots than the ones not 100% flush. Also there seems to be more of a blurring when they are recounting distances, between "carry" and total distance.

I am striving to learn my own distances for a "carry". It's ok to say you can hit a 5-iron to a certain flag when there is a run-up area to the green and if I miss-hit slightly it can land short but still run up. What is more useful to me is to know how far I can consistently carry the ball for playng to greens guarded with front bunkers or lakes. I know I have to club up and if I do flush one, well better usually to be through the back than in the drink

As Davie says there's a difference between carry and where the ball ends up. I learnt a good home truth earler this year, when we were all playing in soggy, dark conditions. I finished up using 2 extra clubs most of the time, because the balls were plugging. I normally score really badly throughout the winter, but by using this method managed to play to my h/c most of the time. Once you accept that a 5-iron doesn't go 170-yards and only 140-150 and get rid of the stigma that some players have about not knowing how far they ACTUALLY hit each club, it's easy.

Davie - i think you must be confusing mid-high handicappers with morons??

They tend to remember the better struck shots? Huh? why?
I'm a mid-high handicapper and i have a very very good idea of how far i hit my clubs and can remember the dodgy shots as well as the good ones

MPB - only speaking from personal experience of people I play and talk with. "Your mileage may vary" as the cliche goes

Fair enough Davie

It just touches a bit of a nerve when i see people assuming that those who can't yet shoot a golf score lower than 80 must be those who can't remember correctly, evaluate honestly, add up adequately........

MPB - I'm one of those people you refer to who can't yet shoot a sub-80 score, so unless I was giving myself those attributes you refer to it's unlikely to have been my intention

Ok, but you did say lower handicappers must have a better idea and mid-high handicappers tend to only remember good shots?

I think to be honest a lot of the reason a mid-high handicapper will try to leather a 7 iron when he should be hitting a 5 iron is because they are afraid of the 5 iron rather than because they think they can hit their 7 iron the 180 yards necessary

Distance is all a load of rubbish, it varies enormously depending on conditions and the type of course you are playing.
I played Saunton in the wind yesterday, on a 441yd hole I hit 3w then a soft punched PW into the green. A couple of holes later I hit a 5 iron into a 140yd par 3 and came up short then a few holes later I hit a 4 iron pin high from 207 yards.

So how far do I hit the ball? The answer is, it doesn't matter as long as I select the right club at the right time.

I think hitting it very long and by this I mean any carry over 250 you need technique more than anything, brute force is just not going to help hitting it any longer.

For this reason I would find it very hard to believe many players with a handicap could claim to regularly carry it more than 250 yards in flat calm conditions.

Just found something that might be of interest to some on here. Tiger only hits his 8 iron 158, or 151 with even the slightest wind.

go to this video and watch from about 1.35 to hear him talk about this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vk46n3p5SQ&feature=related

I think the old adage, Drive for Show, putt for dough is a good one here.

So what if someone can drive it 250? If they are still posting a terrible score, what does it matter?

drive4show wrote:Distance is all a load of rubbish, it varies enormously depending on conditions and the type of course you are playing.
I played Saunton in the wind yesterday, on a 441yd hole I hit 3w then a soft punched PW into the green. A couple of holes later I hit a 5 iron into a 140yd par 3 and came up short then a few holes later I hit a 4 iron pin high from 207 yards.

So how far do I hit the ball? The answer is, it doesn't matter as long as I select the right club at the right time.

Amen Brother!

McLaren wrote:...I think hitting it very long and by this I mean any carry over 250 you need technique more than anything, brute force is just not going to help hitting it any longer...

I think this is pretty accurate. Simple brute force may come up trumps once in a blue moon but otherwise you need a lot more than that.

drive4show wrote:I played Saunton in the wind yesterday

Well that was your own silly fault for eating the obligatory Ruby Murray the night before

Noshankingtonite wrote:

drive4show wrote:I played Saunton in the wind yesterday

Well that was your own silly fault for eating the obligatory Ruby Murray the night before

He said "in the wind" not with the wind!

i love the cynics. they're generally just bitter because they'd love the sort of distance i'm regularly capable of. that's said somewhat tongue in cheek because what they need to realise is that you can also have my inconsistency thrown in too

75yd sclaffs after a huge drive (2 weeks ago); armitages (also 2 weeks ago but just the one thankfully); pushed fade drives into the north sea (not for a while but it's always there, lurking); sudden hooks into the gorse (4 weeks ago, twice); heavy, bunker-creating, wrist-breaking 9 irons (a couple of months ago); scaredy chips that don't reach the green (endlessly); short putting until the 17th hole (2 weeks ago)... shall i go on?

if i put in the practice and played at least once a week i see no reason why i couldn't get down to below 6 but i don't do those things. distance is not the preserve of the low handicapper. consistent scoring and far greater self-belief are.

when i went from 17 to 11, 3 or 4 years ago, i hit a patch of confidence that i'd never felt before. i changed the way i thought about the round, each hole and each shot. then it disappeared and i went and had my swing changed (not connected). for me, the thing that would help me drop my handicap again would be that confidence and way of thinking. it helps you commit 100% to each shot and the difference that makes is huge.

at the moment there's just about always doubt and that makes it a very difficult game. i can still hit it a long long way, even on fairly average strikes, but that's bu&&er all use when you're just not sure where it's going to end up or how it's going to get there.

McLaren wrote:I think hitting it very long and by this I mean any carry over 250 you need technique more than anything, brute force is just not going to help hitting it any longer.

For this reason I would find it very hard to believe many players with a handicap could claim to regularly carry it more than 250 yards in flat calm conditions.

Spot on. I will never forget the day I pitched up at a local driving range when Northampton Saints rugby squad were having a golf day, don't know if it was the first team as I'm not into rugby but they were all huge guys obviously. Twice the size of me and probably a bit more. This was back when I was younger and used to be half decent.

Anyway to cut a long story short, they were taking monster swings at the ball and hitting it sideways or skying it, every now and again one of them would catch it and would almost match my distance with my 3 iron. This was the day I realised technique wins over brute force every time.

think i've been misquoted:

why is it so unbelievable? tour players are not super humans. hitting the ball a long way is only partly [did not stipulate how big a part] about technique. the rest is brute force. we can replicate some shots that tour players make regularly.

gw's example is a good one - but is all about the brute and zero technique which isn't exactly what i meant.

there is also a difference between 'speed' and 'force'

Lets face it if you have a decent swing, the correct equipment for your swing and you can absolutely kill it then you will be on the web telling everyone about it.
Could be possible that those quoting large yardages are in the minority as those who hit average lengths will largely sit in silence (or their own contentment depending on your view point).

Let's face it most charity and society golf days all have a competition to satisfy all our ego's of how long we are. Longest Drive!!!! Everyone tried to kill it on those holes.

End of the day whether someone brags how long or accurate they are at the end of the day only one thing matters their score!!! And I'd be willing to be a shorter yet straighter hitter gets better scores than a bomber playing from cabbage most times. The exception would be long and straight nail that down and then anything is possible

I drove approx 280 yards on Monday, absolutely killed it. I then thinned an 8 iron and missed an easy putt. That's golf

Maverick,

One name for you Luke Donald!

What I've been working hard at is shaping the ball with the driver, because at least 8 holes on my course can be navigated better if you can hit a draw or fade when required. I'm trying to work on 4 different ball shapes at the moment; high fade, low fade, high draw, low draw. Lovely when it comes off, but looks pretty ugly when you over-cook one and hit a snap-hook into the cabbage or slice one oob. I think you've got to assess the danger on each hole before you try and hit one out of the screws. It's all well in good hitting the occasional 300 yarder, but not at the expense of accuracy and position on the course

The Golfing Bhoy - is the one name or two names? Could go either way

pro at my club says:
amateur players commonly choose one club less than they should do, and as most trouble is at the front of the green, I think this observation is pretty true. I was playing a pairs medal on sunday and for a 180 downhill par 3 I chose 3i hybrid over my partners 7 iron. ( he was 20 yd short from the green, and I was, wait for it... 10 yards over the back in the long stuff, we both made a four ha ha)

"as most trouble is at the front of the green"

Is this true? I hear it said a lot but in honesty it is not the case in my experience. Most courses i play you get into much more trouble long than short.

Long is at best in the rough stuff/trees
Short is very often on the fairway! Bunkered at worst

Water is as regularly long and to the side as it is short

Just wondering how others view the 'trouble being short of the green' chestnut??

The ironic thing is that a lot of players use GPS to determine how far they are from the front, middle or back of the green, or a 'scope to tell them how far they are from the flag. However the majority of those people will not take this device onto the course to learn how far they actually hit their clubs in the first place, they just assume they hit it the standard "accepted" distance with each club, vis a vis the GPS or scope is pretty much a waste of cash.
Like any tool you need to learn how to use it to it's best effect.

I've never seen anyone but myself using a device to work their yardages out on my local practice ground. Therefore it's far easier for me to leave myself my favourite distance or avoid trouble. Hence lower scores, lower handicap, all without acutally improving my technical golf skills.

I think technology in drivers has alot to answer for in regards to the long yardages quoted by some people. You cna be a high handicapper and hit the ball well but its the short game that bring syour score down.

SR

That is a very good point. Although I will never know how far I hit the ball under all circumstances I am trying to use my rangefinder to give me a very good idea of how far each club goes under more standard conditions.

Or even on some holes that often play into the wind I am starting to get an idea of how the wind effects my shots.

Of course this is even easier at the range. Do you find there are a few surprises once you start getting an accurate yardage. One major thing I notice is that driver length is no where near the old calculation I used to use. Which was hole length minus how far I had left. Now I knew this was not accurate but in reality it is no where close to the truth, in fact is this what prompts some of the numbers quoted on here?

SR/MAC both some very valid points there. I too have used my range finder to give me accurate readings for my club yardages for each and every club in my bag and did so based on clubs swung at 80% and flat out so I know what the variation in distance is, and to say the least I had some very odd glances from other members assuming I'm mad! When surely in reflection they should think that's a good idea.

Also Mac your point of people using the length of hole to quote yardages hit is a good one, because a hole says its 400yards long and you have 150 to the centre of the green doesn't mean you have hit yur driver 250yards. What people fail to take into account is the tee might be 10 or 20yards forward so you need to take that distance off your drive and the pin maybe on the front so again you may need to take 10 to 20yards off and by the time you've done that the hole may actually be upto 40yards shorter than the yardage on card but still people say no I hit my drive 250+! And had 150left!

super_realist wrote:

I've never seen anyone but myself using a device to work their yardages out on my local practice ground. Therefore it's far easier for me to leave myself my favourite distance or avoid trouble. Hence lower scores, lower handicap, all without acutally improving my technical golf skills.

Some of the devices I have seen, GPS as opposed to Laser RF's, will not work on some practice grounds as they are too far from some of the fairways to give you a suitable lock. Higher Handicappers don't always use the same make and model of golf ball and therefore probably have varying compressions so they will probably have greater inconsistencies in their yardages, quite apart from Poopie. One thing I have also noticed is that people will pace out their yardages on the practice ground but when you ask them their pace length they don't actually know and assume it is one yard, my pace length is 30 inches so if I were to pace out 120 paces and assume it was 120 yards I would be 20 yards out and short. For those that don't have practice grounds and use driving ranges you again have inconsistencies in ball flight between ranges, I have just spent a few days in Chester and used 2 different ranges and their was at least 1 clubs length difference between ball flights per range so not good for judging yardages. It would be useful if Courses that had good practice grounds hired out laser RF's so that Higher Handicappers(HH's) did have a more accurate Idea of their yardages, the chances are that HH's are not prepared to buy expensive devices as Golf may not be their main Hobby and they may not stay with it.

super_realist wrote:

I've never seen anyone but myself using a device to work their yardages out on my local practice ground. Therefore it's far easier for me to leave myself my favourite distance or avoid trouble. Hence lower scores, lower handicap, all without acutally improving my technical golf skills.

Some of the devices I have seen, GPS as opposed to Laser RF's, will not work on some practice grounds as they are too far from some of the fairways to give you a suitable lock. Higher Handicappers don't always use the same make and model of golf ball and therefore probably have varying compressions so they will probably have greater inconsistencies in their yardages, quite apart from Poopie. One thing I have also noticed is that people will pace out their yardages on the practice ground but when you ask them their pace length they don't actually know and assume it is one yard, my pace length is 30 inches so if I were to pace out 120 paces and assume it was 120 yards I would be 20 yards out and short. For those that don't have practice grounds and use driving ranges you again have inconsistencies in ball flight between ranges, I have just spent a few days in Chester and used 2 different ranges and their was at least 1 clubs length difference between ball flights per range so not good for judging yardages. It would be useful if Courses that had good practice grounds hired out laser RF's so that Higher Handicappers(HH's) did have a more accurate Idea of their yardages, the chances are that HH's are not prepared to buy expensive devices as Golf may not be their main Hobby and they may not stay with it.

KS.
On skycaddy it doesn't matter how far you are from the fairway, as long as you can pick up some sort of yardage up to 999 yards you can use the "Shot Distance" button which measures the distance from where you press the button to the point at which you press it again.
It's for measuring drives etc on course but works equally well on a practice ground.
One other thing worth noting is how far you carry a ball and how much run out you get with each club plus you should always discount the spurios 5th and 95th percentile of long and short balss and take an average of what remains.
Another crucial thing you should do is measure your yardages in 2 directions, i.e into the wind and with the wind. You might not always notice the wind, but it is up there.

super_realist wrote:KS.
You might not always notice the wind, but it is up there.

The joys of links golf, pick a direction, any direction.

Admin
Do you have a filter running which converts mis-hits, without the hyphen, to poopie?

K@S wrote:

Admin
Do you have a filter running which converts mis-hits, without the hyphen, to poopie?

Yes it's an unfortunate side effect of the way the filter works - it spots the last 5 letters sadly

Update - the filter has now been improved!

I did wonder what that Poopie was doing there, that explains it! Am I the only one who always reads mishits as 'my poopies'?

Ok. Now to throw a cat in amongst this. Today i played with sj and shanker (and the RINGER). On the 15th. A 340ish uphill par 4 sj knocked it to the frint edge and i was through the back.

Is that an exaggaration? Or a miscalculation of the yardage?

LJ

Two shots to reach a 340 hole is nothing special.

Mac. I expected more from you on this. We obviously knocked it there for one. And although i wasn't good today it wasn't the first tee shot that was hit that way.

So which is it? Exaggaration, lie, or miscalculated yardages?

Lie probably. I also expect that sj and shanker are profiles run be you just to back up this unlikely tale.

Sj being smithersjones and shanker being oldshanker mac. Both guys in good standing from 606

LondonJonnyO wrote:Ok. Now to throw a cat in amongst this. Today i played with sj and shanker (and the RINGER). On the 15th. A 340ish uphill par 4 sj knocked it to the frint edge and i was through the back.

Is that an exaggaration? Or a miscalculation of the yardage?

Some questions:

How much "uphill"?
Downwind? If so, strong wind?
340 off the tips? If so, did you play off them? If not, how far in front?


Without significant help (i.e.wind, dry conditions w/ plenty of run etc...), I'm afraid I simply don't believe you caned it >340 yards and 'sj' hit it about, say, 320. Not saying it's impossible but a bit more info re. conditions would be useful.

Wouldn't be surprised if hole's stated yardage is somewhat out.

Believe it or not these are the sort if responses i expected. The yardage is frpm the tee we played from. Not the tips. It was uphill enough that the landing was blind. And yes. It was downwind. And slightly off the left.

Hey-ho. If that's how far you hit it, that's how far you hit it.

What did you take from the tee? 8-iron?

No. The only 8 iron i hit today was a bump and run from the woods.