Scotland v Tonga: build up, banter and match day thread

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :

Scotland v Tonga
Pittodrie, Aberdeen
Saturday 24 November 2012
KO:3pm

Last matches:

10 November - Italy 28 - 23 Tonga
17 November - Scotland 10 - 21 South Africa

Previous head to heads:

1974
Scotland XV 44-8 Tonga
28 September 1974, Murrayfield

1995
Scotland 41-5 Tonga
30 May 1995, Pretoria (RWC)

2001
Scotland 43-20 Tonga
10 November 2001, Murrayfield

2009
Scotland 'A' 38-7 Tonga
20 November 2009, Netherdale

Injuries:

Gray following concussion protocol

Big Al still tending to his calf strain

No other injuries announced

Latest provisional IRB World Rankings - top 12

1 New Zealand 92.91
2 South Africa 86.05
3 Australia 85.94
4 France 84.99
5 England 81.96
6 Argentina 79.89
7 Ireland 79.04
8 Wales 78.95
9 Samoa 78.79
10 Scotland 77.42
11 Italy 76.61
12 Tonga 74.51

Teams:
SCOTLAND

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors)
14 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors)
13 Max Evans (Castres)
12 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby)
11 Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby)

10 Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby)
9 Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors)

1 Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors)
2 Scott Lawson (London Irish)
3 Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors)
4 Richie Gray (Sale Sharks)
5 Alastair Kellock (Glasgow Warriors)
6 Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan)
7 Kelly Brown (Saracens) (c)
8 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby)

Substitutes:

16 Dougie Hall (Glasgow Warriors)
17 Kyle Traynor (Bristol Rugby)
18 Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby)

19 Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby)
20 John Barclay (Glasgow Warriors)
21 Rory Lawson (Newcastle Falcons)
22 Tom Heathcote (Bath Rugby)
23 Nick De Luca (Edinburgh Rugby)



TONGA

Vungakoto Lilo (Tarbes Pyrenees)

Fetu'u Vainikolo (Connacht)

Sukanaivalu Hufanga (Newcastle Falcons)

Sione Piukala (Perpignan)

Will Helu (Fasi Ma'ufanga)

Fangatapu Apikotoa (Amatori)

Taniela Moa (Pau)

Viliami Ma'afu (unattached);

Alisona Taumalolo (Perpignan)

Elvis Taione (Western Force)

Halani Aulika (London Irish)

Joe Tu'ineau (Aix en Provence)

Tukulua Lokotui (Wellington)

Hale T-Pole (Northland)

Nili Latu (captain, NEC)


Substitutes:


Ilaisa Ma'asi (Counties Manukau)

Tevita Mailau (Mont De Marsan)

Kamaliele Sakalia (Marist Tonga)

Sitiveni Mafi (Leicester)

Sione Timani (Llanelli)

Viliame 'longi (Marist Longoteme)

Eddie Paea (Eastern Suburbs)

Alipate Fatafehi (Lyon)

[bsando]

GOOD!! Bye bye Laidlaw you bloody idiot!!

Come on Heathcote, sort this rubbish out!!

[RDW]

Hell I've had enough of this crap- come on Tonga!

[Cryptoyourisan]

Hahaha! Scotland are comically bad. It's like watching an episode of the Three Stooges.

If Robinson isn't sacked after this, a lot of people will rightly wind down their interest in this team.

[reallybored]

Adios Robinson.

[wales606]

Wow, what happened to the team that could score 3 tries against the world champions and muscle up to the South Africans?

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Hell I've had enough of this crap- come on Tonga!

+1

Bravo Tonga

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Adios Robinson.

Overdue by two years

[GunsGerms]

What's the score?

[bsando]

Come on Tonga you can hold strong!!

[wales606]

13 man Tonga, behind their try line

Scotland have to score now?

[wales606]

What's the score?

15 - 21

80 minutes, red time

[wales606]

Repeating the scrum, going for the penalty try with the conversion under the post.

[RDW]

Think they'd have to be down to 10 men for us to score.

[wales606]

WHY DIDN'T TONGA KICK IT OUT?

[RDW]

I'm gonna get all 21st Schizoid here - bye bye Robinson!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

I'm gonna get all 21st Schizoid here - bye bye Robinson!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't see how any reasonable person can come to any other conclusion - shameful

[wales606]

Ouch, that has to hurt Scotland

The 6Ns is going to be interesting next year.

[bsando]

That was a rubbish pass, not Heathcotes fault.

Well... I am now officially an anti AR fan. I really cannot see how he can be allowed to remain.

Well done Tonga!! You played very well and fully deserved that victory.

[Notch]

Wow!

[Cryptoyourisan]

Heathcote dropping it was hilarious. What a joke.

[Notch]

Commiserations guys. Really.

But for Tonga... what a scalp, they'll be talking about it for a long time. Can't believe the second sin-binning with two minutes to go and then the decision to run the ball from under their own posts. Crazy stuff, but Scotland didn't deserve to win after that last scrum turnover.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Commiserations guys. Really.

But for Tonga... what a scalp, they'll be talking about it for a long time.

As they should, Notch, well earned, thoroughly deserved - none gave less than a full-hearted effort

[LondonTiger]

Ouch, that has to hurt Scotland

The 6Ns is going to be interesting next year.

Interesting indeed. not sure there is any clear favourite. England, Wales and Scotland all firmly in contention for the Wooden spoon.

[GavinDragon]

i see a french grand slam coming

commiserations scotland

congrats to tonga

[123456789]

First things first Tonga deserved to win, that was the single worst performance I've ever seen by a Scotland side.
Second, that referee was out of his depth
How can a team with 3 yellow cards win any game, Robinson has taken the most talented team in a long time and lost to Tonga, he sent players like Hamilton and Ford back to their clubs on the week of an international game. I supported him up to now but he has to go now. I don't care who they sign in fact I'd rather have Townsend now at least his teams have a bit of fight in them. If he stays it will be a disgrace, how can a team with Euan Murray, Richie Gray, David Denton and Tim Visser lose to Tonga! What sort of idiot completely drops Mike Blair after one poor performance. The man is incompetent.

[Morgannwg]

Scotland are a team I do not understand. Every time they look to be going forward they take an extra step backward, like this today. Wales are set to lose 4 games from 4 and England 3 from 4. It's not looking too good for the Lions cause.

[RuggerRadge2611]

what a shambles

[reallybored]

That was awful.

The selection was poor, as were the substitutions.

The game plan and leadership were non-existent.

Robinson deserves to go for that, why he ever strayed from a limited forward orientated game-plan that he introduced when he first arrived is beyond me. His man-management over the past three weeks has been terrible, the appointment of Brown as captain looks like a poor one and the team have really let the supporters down with 2.25 inept performances.

[Manky-Flanker]

Well done Tonga, your boys did well and looked hungry for the win. As a Scot, I'm left wondering (again) what catalyst Scotland need to go up a level.

[Majestic83]

Disgraceful performance by us today, the players should be embarrassed by that. Tonga played hard and simple and deserved the win.
Scotland looked as if they didn't play as a team, the forwards looked weak and had no leader and the backs looked as if they were playing as individuals.
Lacking some hard forwards to really boss a game. Stuart Hogg for me was terrible today, tried to take on too many players himself when there were overlaps on and ended up being turned over nearly every time!

[RDW]

Sorry guys but got to get something off my chest:


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#!$£@:@!@$£!"£"$@":£@@:@:'

[maestegmafia]

Well done Tonga. Very sorry for the scots fans out there. These islanders are Blwdi good rugby players.

[123456789]

I don't care who picks the next Scotland team as long as it's not Robinson, it could be Townsend, Lineen, Bradley, Martin Johnson - anyone at all.

[RDW]

Got to feel sorry for Heathcoat - he was crap today and absolutely bottled it, but Robinson picked him, and Robinson put him on in a high pressure situation and put far to much pressure on him for his first cap.

He'll be shell shocked and his confidence will be well and truly shot.

[RDW]

We're now 12 in the world rankings thanks to Italy just losing to Australia.

12!!!!!!

We're lucky to be 3rd seeds for the world cup never mind 2nd.

[reallybored]

RDW, bit harsh on Heathcote seeing as he was on the pitch for less than 10 minutes when we were chasing the game and didn't do very much wrong.

Brown didn't learn from last week and deserves criticism for not taking points when they're on offer, had we kicked our penalties in the first half rather than going for the try, we could have been clear.

Laidlaw is not a fly-half, can Robinson and Bradley just accept it. He either just ships the ball on or punts it in the air, we've looked totally rudderless for the last three weeks.

[RDW]

Don't think it's harsh on him, because I don't think it's his fault really. He missed a fairly easy shot at goal and knocked on what was, granted, a bad pass but still catchable. He also looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights when he had the ball.

Robinson threw him on to get a cap when the game was high pressured and on a tipping point - there's no way he should have gone on.

[Dave.]

Ok - could you guys sort something out for me? As a result of this, how can Wales slip out of the top 8, and for Samoa to get in?

[bsando]

That pass was not catchable, he had to stretch forward to just get two hands on it. I think Heathcote did very well with the time he had on the field. I just wish he had been put on at half time so Laidlaw couldn't lose the game for us by playing absolutely rubbish!

[RDW]

I similarly think you're being harsh on Laidlaw - I thought he did pretty good! Did what was asked of him at least.

Think we're not going to be able to agree on this one!

[funnyExiledScot]

Agreed with RDW on this, Heathcote was pretty awful, but you can't blame him. It was an utterly stupid time to bring him on. I can only think Laidlaw's dreadful kicking from hand inspired it.

Robinson should be sacked in time for the Sunday papers. He should have gone after the world cup and the SRU bottled it. There really is no excuse now. This is his team, and it's going backwards. Good players are starting to play badly as well, and the pack didn't even play as a team. That game should have been done by half time, but the execution of the rolling maul was amateur at best, and the less said about the play behind the scrum the better.

Well done Tonga. Thoroughly deserved the win. They defended to a man with more power and passion, and their counter attack was far beyond ours.

I've got a long drive down the A9 tomorrow to contemplate his replacement. If the SRU don't fire him I should burn my season ticket. Yes, the players are culpable as well, but he is the man in charge of the shambles, and quite honestly I don't think our team was a well drilled as theirs.

[Cryptoyourisan]

Lineen for interim coach for the Six Nations? Robinson couldn't pick a team of All Blacks to win a game, let alone the plebs we have. 2012 was an opportunity to rebuild the team post-RWC and it has been totally wasted.

I really don't see a way forward for Scotland.

[Imperialbigdave]

He also looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights when he had the ball.

I dont know how you can make that statement when he touched the ball about twice, one of which he took it into contact.

[MacKnocked-on]

I agree, I thought Heathcote linked quite well when he came on and looked confident. Everyone makes mistakes and that game was lost by experienced players' mistakes and poor options.

[RDW]

Guys not meaning to hav a dig at Heathcoat and don't think we should get into a massive pedantic debate about it - my point was that it was an incredibly poor decision to bring him on at that stage of the game.

[Imperialbigdave]

I said this before the game, Tonga are no pushovers, and that expectations of a 20 point plus victory were not justified. It appears the team had the same arrogance, as that first half was criminal in the way they didnt take the points on offer.

[123456789]

Lineen for interim coach for the Six Nations? Robinson couldn't pick a team of All Blacks to win a game, let alone the plebs we have. 2012 was an opportunity to rebuild the team post-RWC and it has been totally wasted.

I really don't see a way forward for Scotland.

I see a way forward for Scotland, we have better players now than we have had for a long time. We have a terrible, terrible, terrible coach.

Our starting line-up come the Six nations could be:

1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Hamilton
6. Brown
7. Rennie
8. Denton
9. Blair
10. Weir
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. Ansbro (Bennett if he's as good as people say he is)
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

16. Welsh
17. MacArthur
18. Cross
19. Gilchrist
20. Beattie / Barclay / Strockosch / Fusaro / Wilson / Vernon / Harley etc.
21. Cusiter
22. Laidlaw
23. Brown

Reserves:
Reid, Hall, Low, Kellock, Ryder, back rows not on bench, Pyrgos, Jackson, Heathcote, Jones, S. Lamont, R. Lamont, Tonks, Grove, Dunbar, Horne,


That is a competitive squad that should be competing for the Six Nations, and I believe they will be if we have a half-decent coach.

[MacKnocked-on]

The game wasn't going well with Laidlaw at 10, no reason not to bring Heathcote on.

[RDW]

The game wasn't going well with Laidlaw at 10, no reason not to bring Heathcote on.

Yes but to ask a young guy, not long into his professional career who has only has a few training sessions with players he doesn't know, to change a game on his first cap when the game is at tipping point - is a ludicrous decision!

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

13. Ansbro (Bennett if he's as good as people say he is)

Better - I've been understated in my assessment so far

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