Scotland v Tonga: build up, banter and match day thread

[George Carlin]

Scotland v Tonga
Pittodrie, Aberdeen
Saturday 24 November 2012
KO:3pm

Last matches:

10 November - Italy 28 - 23 Tonga
17 November - Scotland 10 - 21 South Africa

Previous head to heads:

1974
Scotland XV 44-8 Tonga
28 September 1974, Murrayfield

1995
Scotland 41-5 Tonga
30 May 1995, Pretoria (RWC)

2001
Scotland 43-20 Tonga
10 November 2001, Murrayfield

2009
Scotland 'A' 38-7 Tonga
20 November 2009, Netherdale

Injuries:

Gray following concussion protocol

Big Al still tending to his calf strain

No other injuries announced

Latest provisional IRB World Rankings - top 12

1 New Zealand 92.91
2 South Africa 86.05
3 Australia 85.94
4 France 84.99
5 England 81.96
6 Argentina 79.89
7 Ireland 79.04
8 Wales 78.95
9 Samoa 78.79
10 Scotland 77.42
11 Italy 76.61
12 Tonga 74.51

Teams:
SCOTLAND

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors)
14 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors)
13 Max Evans (Castres)
12 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby)
11 Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby)

10 Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby)
9 Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors)

1 Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors)
2 Scott Lawson (London Irish)
3 Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors)
4 Richie Gray (Sale Sharks)
5 Alastair Kellock (Glasgow Warriors)
6 Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan)
7 Kelly Brown (Saracens) (c)
8 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby)

Substitutes:

16 Dougie Hall (Glasgow Warriors)
17 Kyle Traynor (Bristol Rugby)
18 Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby)

19 Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby)
20 John Barclay (Glasgow Warriors)
21 Rory Lawson (Newcastle Falcons)
22 Tom Heathcote (Bath Rugby)
23 Nick De Luca (Edinburgh Rugby)



TONGA

Vungakoto Lilo (Tarbes Pyrenees)

Fetu'u Vainikolo (Connacht)

Sukanaivalu Hufanga (Newcastle Falcons)

Sione Piukala (Perpignan)

Will Helu (Fasi Ma'ufanga)

Fangatapu Apikotoa (Amatori)

Taniela Moa (Pau)

Viliami Ma'afu (unattached);

Alisona Taumalolo (Perpignan)

Elvis Taione (Western Force)

Halani Aulika (London Irish)

Joe Tu'ineau (Aix en Provence)

Tukulua Lokotui (Wellington)

Hale T-Pole (Northland)

Nili Latu (captain, NEC)


Substitutes:


Ilaisa Ma'asi (Counties Manukau)

Tevita Mailau (Mont De Marsan)

Kamaliele Sakalia (Marist Tonga)

Sitiveni Mafi (Leicester)

Sione Timani (Llanelli)

Viliame 'longi (Marist Longoteme)

Eddie Paea (Eastern Suburbs)

Alipate Fatafehi (Lyon)

[ghad]

GC, at the risk of sounding cynical, I'd rather not see Dunbar and Seymour or many other Glasgow guys in the team. We have an important game against leinster this Friday. I don't know if they'd see it that way mind.

[George Carlin]

GC, at the risk of sounding cynicaleminently practical, I'd rather not see Dunbar and Seymour or many other Glasgow guys in the team. We have an important game against leinster this Friday. I don't know if they'd see it that way mind.

Amended that for you.

[RDW]

Impressively detailed thread there gc!

Would be good to see your team, but I wouldn't go without a 2nd row on the bench.

Again it's the old cliche - it's a 'must win game' but I'd like to see some players like Dunbar, Seymour and gilchrist seeing some action.

Also, Edinburgh could do with mcinally - if not we'll have to play the ginger midget roddy grant at number 8 v ospreys!

[RuggerRadge2611]

This would be my team depending on injuries.

1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Kellock
5. Hamilton
6. Brown
7. Barclay
8. Denton

9. Pyrgos
10. Jackson
11. Visser
12. Horne
13. Dunbar
14. Seymour
15. Tonks

Bench depending on injuries.

[TJ1]

Will Robinson give some fringe players a chance? It would be a good opportunity to give players experience.

[Geordie]

You could put Shiels in at prop...he was part of the Falcons team that beat the Tongans last tuesday

[caz]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/rugby/scotland-expect-to-take-on-tonga-without-gray-and-jacobsen.19449060

Article from the Herald this morning, they think Chunk has decided to retire from international duty. Sad to see him go if they're right.

Wouldn't be surprised if Richie is rushed back, after all they let him play on at the time.

[RDW]

Would be a shame if Chunk did retire and that was his last time in a Scotland shirt - bit of a mess if it is. Not exactly a good way to announce your retirement - pull out for 'personal reasons' the suddenly retire.

[tigertattie]

I'd like to see chunck get a send off at least

He should be rolled out (pardon the pun) against the tongans in a cheerio match so we can all say ta ta to a guy who has been a great servent to Scottish Rugby,

[RDW]

Also hints at yet more disturbance and unrest behind the scenes.

His brother works in the cafe at my girlfriends work (he's very camp apparently - polar opposite of chunk!) but has so far been unable to find out what's happened!

[Geordie]

Well he hasnt played like the player we know...but is it right they've been rotating the props in Edinburgh so they're not getting a good run of form?

Maybe he's just fed up of it all...

[RDW]

I'm not over stating it saying that the Edinburgh props have pretty much been one week on, one week off all season!

[Geordie]

Whilst im think some rotation is necessary...surely you need to play regularly to build up match fitness...form etc...

[RDW]

Don't get us Edinburgh fans started...!

Anyway not really relevant to this thread - let's wait and see what happens with Chunk.

[caz]

http://www.scottishrugby.org/content/view/3250/2/

Confirmation from SRU. Chunk retires from international rugby.

[RDW]

Baws.

Definitely deserves its own thread if someone fancies making one.

[caz]

Done.

[RDW]

Have to say it was a bit crappy of the Herald to announce it first - steels his thunder a bit.

[tigertattie]

Is it just me or are Scotland going to miss out on the top 8 for the WC draw?

Because Tonga are below us, even if we pump them we don't get any ranking points do we????

[George Carlin]

Tattie - nope, we've had our chips as far as getting back into the second pool is concerned.
Actually, I think that Chunk has had everyone's chips.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Defo relegated to the third tier for the draw that takes place in early Dec. I'm torn between experimenting with the squad and keeping things pretty much as is and trying to rebuild some momentum ahead of the 6Ns (and hopefully confidence too).

If there's any doubt as to Gray's recovery, he should not play - Kellock in from the start, Gilchrist to the bench. Fusaro could well be given a chance too. Rhubarb to start at 10, with either Dunar or Horne inthe midfield, and Tommy Seymour to the wing (altho thought Schlong had a decent game, better than Visser) on Sat

[Scot Abroad]

Is it just me or are Scotland going to miss out on the top 8 for the WC draw?

Because Tonga are below us, even if we pump them we don't get any ranking points do we????

i think we do pick up some points but the highest we can reach is 78.03, which is far from good enough. Even if Wales get pumped by NZ and Oz, Ireland lose to Arg and Samoa lose to France, we can't go any higher than 10th I believe. As a result Robbo has to blood some new guys. There is no point in sticking with the same squad and missing out on the opportunity to get the youngsters some international experience. I've said it a thousand times, we need these kids to have close to 30 caps by the time the WC rolls around.

1 Grant
2 Hall
3 Muray
4 Kellock
5 Hamilton
6 Brown
7 Barclay
8 Denton

9 Pyrgos
10 Jackson
11 Visser
12 Horne
13 Dunbar
14 Seymour
15 Hogg

16 Ford
17 Sheills
18 Reid
19 Gilchrist
20 McInlay
21 Laidlaw
22 Scott
23 Murchie

[Captain_Sensible]

Is it just me or are Scotland going to miss out on the top 8 for the WC draw?

Because Tonga are below us, even if we pump them we don't get any ranking points do we????

i think we do pick up some points but the highest we can reach is 78.03, which is far from good enough. Even if Wales get pumped by NZ and Oz, Ireland lose to Arg and Samoa lose to France, we can't go any higher than 10th I believe. As a result Robbo has to blood some new guys. There is no point in sticking with the same squad and missing out on the opportunity to get the youngsters some international experience. I've said it a thousand times, we need these kids to have close to 30 caps by the time the WC rolls around.

1 Grant
2 Hall
3 Muray
4 Kellock
5 Hamilton
6 Brown
7 Barclay
8 Denton

9 Pyrgos
10 Jackson
11 Visser
12 Horne
13 Dunbar
14 Seymour
15 Hogg

16 Ford
17 Sheills
18 Reid
19 Gilchrist
20 McInlay
21 Laidlaw
22 Scott
23 Murchie

Not sure why you'd drop Scott when he's been one of our best players since the Summer Tour. Surely he should be amassing as many caps as possible? I'd also keep Laidlaw at 10 because Jackson's place kicking is woeful, and Laidlaw's game should pick up with better service from Pyrgos and against a less organised defensive line than that put up by SA.

Other than that, happy with those forwards, and with Dunbar in for NDL. I'd have Cross on the bench instead of Shiells, along with Horne and Murchie.

[RDW]

Agreed re Scott - he shouldn't be dropped, needs all the game time at this level he can get.

Also Horne has been solid, but not spectacular, and indeed if he hadn't been the goal kicker we probably wouldn't have paid too much attention to him! One for the future, but Matt Scott is very much our present.

[Scot Abroad]

Scott to the bench was the only way I could warrant Jackson starting since Horne would take over kicking duties. Perfectly happy for Scott and Dunbar in the midfield with Horne on the bench. Laidlaw and Scott subbed for Jackson and Horne on 60 minutes exactly

[GLove39]

Tom Heathcote has been called into the Scotland squad for Saturdays game. Maybe Robinson's about to try out a totally new 10?

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

I hope to hell this isn't another Shingler fiasco - pls tell me that the SRU has done its homework properly this time! He's a talented youngster, so wouldn't mind seeing him coming off the bench to tie him in

[RDW]

Um, who?

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Former England U20 stand-off at Bath, kept Donald Duck out of the club side at the start of the season

[RDW]

Any good?

Is someone injured like?

[funnyExiledScot]

I've only seen heathcote play twice. Good kicker, didn't see much with ball in hand..

Agree with the gist of gc and radge's teams. Keep the core team together, introduce a couple of new faces. Seymour and dunbar both deserve to be involved, and pyrgos and jackson should start.

[Imperialbigdave]

Cant say too much about his general play as ive not really watched him, but from seeing match reports, he can kick his goals.

[GLove39]

Born in Inverness apparently, so no worried there.
Welcome aboard Tam Mc Heathcote

[justified sinner]

Story here;
http://www.bathrugby.com/news/team-news/heathcote-added-to-scotland-squad

Robbo's record with picking Bath players doesn't fill me with confidence. Cuthbert anyone?

[Scot Abroad]

Not played in the Aviva yet this year, appearances have been limited to the LV. Not sure what Robbo plans on trying out this weekend. Jackson starting and Heathecote on the bench? He is a prolific goal kicker so it does offer another option and at 20 he's still young. Would be good to get him capped early to stop England stealing him.

[Imperialbigdave]

Hes been injured for the start of the season and has used the LV cup to get back to fitness. Got plenty of Jeff experience last year.

[Scot Abroad]

Some of the bath lot on PR are saying he's better than Donald and should be starting. Didn't know he was injured before I posted the above.

[glamorganalun]

I think Scotland will win this game without too much trouble the only problem may be injuries due to dangerous tackles, I hope the ref and line judges provide some protection that Wales did not get against Samoa. Good luck, Scotland by 15 points.

[RDW]

Bit of a kick in the chukies for the likes of Leonard and hunter if he does get capped - they've got just as much pru rugby experience, and have played in the hk

Would basically say if you move to England you'll get capped early, if you stay in Scotland you won't!

[Imperialbigdave]

Regardless, its always good to have a wider pool to play from, so id have no qualms about him getting 10 mins off the bench if the games not in the balance (which after some of Tongas recent form, it could well be)

[MacKnocked-on]

On the subject of Jackson, can't personally understand the clamour to have him playing on Saturday. Laidlaw may not be the longterm answer at 10 but he has to be a better choice than Jackson at present, Jackson is a terrible kicker and really not good enough in other aspects of his play to justify his place (may not even keep his place at Glasgow with Wight looking a much improved option).

[Bathman_in_London]

In the last year he turned down a place on the Scotland squad to play for the England u20s then after not playing at all due to injury he says yes. I'm a bit gutted, I thought he might be an England cap in the future, he's played in every age group team and was on Lancasters 'ones to watch' list a couple of months ago. Just seems a shame if after that an agent has turned his head.

Still I think he has the makings of a very good fh and Scotland have nabbed a good one. Good luck to him and send him back un-injured please!

[Pat_Mustard]

http://www.scottishrugby.org/content/view/3251/2/

Jackson, Dunbar and Ryder have been released to Glasgow and Lee Jones to Edinburgh as well as Jacobsen.

Looks like Heathcote will be straight into the 22 then. I guess releasing Jackson is more for Glasgow's benefit than anything else. Likewise Leonard and Hunter will probably be needed by Edinburgh, also capping Heathcote now may just be a tactic to tie him in, rather than any reflection on the other two.

With Ryder released it would seem that Gilchrist will be back up lock if Gray doesn't make it.

I'd hoped that Dunbar would make the Scotland 22 but maybe the fact that Horne and Seymour haven't been released is significant?

[RDW]

Don't get me wrong if this kid has talent I'm happy to have him, I just don't want another jack Cuthbert situation, which to ne massively under valued the whole idea of getting a cap.

[justified sinner]

http://www.scottishrugby.org/content/view/3251/2/

Jackson, Dunbar and Ryder have been released to Glasgow and Lee Jones to Edinburgh as well as Jacobsen.

Looks like Heathcote will be straight into the 22 then. I guess releasing Jackson is more for Glasgow's benefit than anything else. Likewise Leonard and Hunter will probably be needed by Edinburgh, also capping Heathcote now may just be a tactic to tie him in, rather than any reflection on the other two.

With Ryder released it would seem that Gilchrist will be back up lock if Gray doesn't make it.

I'd hoped that Dunbar would make the Scotland 22 but maybe the fact that Horne and Seymour haven't been released is significant?

Drat, could have done with Rambo back for O's as seriously short in the backrow just now, unless some of the injured guys have come back quicker than expected.

[Pat_Mustard]

You might still get him, not all of the remaining Scotland squad members will make the 23, so they may release more later in the week. Suppose it depends if Rennie/Strokosch recover.

[Scot Abroad]

http://www.scottishrugby.org/content/view/3251/2/

Jackson, Dunbar and Ryder have been released to Glasgow and Lee Jones to Edinburgh as well as Jacobsen.

Looks like Heathcote will be straight into the 22 then. I guess releasing Jackson is more for Glasgow's benefit than anything else. Likewise Leonard and Hunter will probably be needed by Edinburgh, also capping Heathcote now may just be a tactic to tie him in, rather than any reflection on the other two.

With Ryder released it would seem that Gilchrist will be back up lock if Gray doesn't make it.

I'd hoped that Dunbar would make the Scotland 22 but maybe the fact that Horne and Seymour haven't been released is significant?

He's released Dunbar and kept De Luca. Robbo infuriates me sometimes (most of the time)

[Imperialbigdave]

Hornes not been released though, so perhaps well see him come into the fold.

[Captain_Sensible]

Can't believe Dunbar's been handed back to Glasgow. When will NDL get the boot?

As for Heathcote, this is good news. It's not as if we have talented young flyhalves coming out of our ears. Seem to remember him playing well vs Glasgow in last year's HK. Leonard and Hunter haven't played well enough to merit a cap in my opinion.

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