Argentina 5th Best Team in the World?

First topic message reminder :

By my calculation if Argentina beat France at home and England lose to Australia then Argentina will leap over both Wales and England and move into 5th spot.

This is probably not a likely scenario, but it is certainly possible. We know France can be fickle, Argentina solid and Australia tend to bounce back from a humiliating loss with real venom, whilst England are yet to be tested against quality opposition and may be complacent given their big win last week and the prospect of a "weak" Wallaby side...

It is some achievement by Argentina to even face this prospect in their first year sitting at the top table with the big kids. Well done to them!

Well I disagree Griff that they are exposed to the highest level in the NH. Test rugby is the highest level and this was what they were shut out from on a regular basis for so long.

There is very little difference from Argentina in terms of how their players used to come together for test rugby. In terms of population base and resources, obviously Argentina now has another advantage in terms of being involved in a tournament that exposes them to the highest level of rugby as the 6N does in the NH.

PI teams have proven to be an obstacle for many teams but on an irregular basis. Argentina have more consistency but still mixed results. Now they seem to be on an upwards trend battling for the top echelon of world rugby on a consistent basis. It's good to see.

It is not a question of the standard of club rugby they are playing,BUT being able to get .
ALL there players released at the same time to train as a squad together as the IRB ruling dictates.
Last Saturday they [like several other sides]were denied players by clubs contrary to the IRB ruling.
It really is time that the IRB acted if for example Touluse was to with hold players.
Fining and summary demotion would set a precedent and put the fear of god up other sides.
Incidentally to the club named is just a name as an example NOT a club guilty of this as far as i know.

Santiago Phelan negotiated what he deemed an acceptable compromise with the French clubs - so there were no players were actually withheld.

Why was a compromise needed?

First because Phelan wants the players available to him to be playing at the highest level they can on a regular basis. The amateur setup in Argentina is no preparation for players wanting to progress to tests.

Secondly Argentinian players have suddenly become less valuable to any NH employer as their availability has been reduced. However there is nowhere else they can play.

Thirdly players were released for longer than they had to be to allow full participation in the 4Ns.


Phelan is a pragmatic patriot - we need more of his ilk.

Little point, will we see less and less Argy players in the NH leagues now they are away for international windows at a time??

thebluesmancometh wrote:Little point, will we see less and less Argy players in the NH leagues now they are away for international windows at a time??

Yea definately

You could understand why, losing them end of last season and not really seeing them until December, in which they will probably need a rest and re introduction into a differing team tactically and technically.

Therefore are Argentina's players heading to the SH, and will this help or hinder the NT?

Where can Argentinian players go?

Their own club game is still effectively amateur. It does not seem feasible that they could enter sides in the S15. They could not be accommodated in current S15 franchises, while other SH rugby pays nowhere near what the could still get in the NH.

LondonTiger wrote:Where can Argentinian players go?

Their own club game is still effectively amateur. It does not seem feasible that they could enter sides in the S15. They could not be accommodated in current S15 franchises, while other SH rugby pays nowhere near what the could still get in the NH.

Which SH teams will take them? NZ ,AUS and SA franchises take in hardly any foreign players as it is. They are full of home grown talent to help the national sides.

An extra super 15 team or two? Maybe even a couple of Argentine based teams?

TJ wrote:An extra super 15 team or two? Maybe even a couple of Argentine based teams?

There are some rumors about that.

Indeed LF4L,

As I said they cannot be accomodated in S15 franchises which would only leave ITM, Currie Cup level. Even if they were wanted (unlikely) pay would be minimal.

I have this horrible feeling we will see ever increasing numbers of Argentinians revisiting their Italian roots.



TJ,

The S15 season is already too convoluted. Adding extra teams will not help. Of course if SA withdraw.......

As with all debates I think that the All Blacks are No 1

All of the rest of the top 10 except Italy are much of a muchness.

In All of the games this year no team except Nz has had big game wins after big game wins.

SA and Oz on recent results aren't much better then Ireland (maybe +10 in a game). In the 6N we only were shamed in one game.

The Argies are of the same standard. Only NZ are cfoming here and will be disapointed if they don't win all their games.

So the Agries are joint 2nd along with 7 other teams.

Brendan wrote:As with all debates I think that the All Blacks are No 1

All of the rest of the top 10 except Italy are much of a muchness.

In All of the games this year no team except Nz has had big game wins after big game wins.

SA and Oz on recent results aren't much better then Ireland (maybe +10 in a game). In the 6N we only were shamed in one game.

The Argies are of the same standard. Only NZ are cfoming here and will be disapointed if they don't win all their games.

So the Agries are joint 2nd along with 7 other teams.

I totally agree. But I think Sa and OZ are 2nd, then 3th is the rest.