England squad for India set to be announced

England announce the squad for India at 11 tomorrow.

The rumour currently going round is that it will be: Cook, Root, Trott, Bell, Morgan, Bairstow, Bopara, Prior, Kieswetter, Swann, Patel, Tredwell, Broad, Anderson, Bresnan, Finn

A few surprises in there and I'm not sure I can agree with some of the decisions if this is true - no Monty, no Taylor, Ravi in despite his form, Morgan back in despite no FC runs in yonks.

I like Root but at this time, following the loss of two experienced batsmen, I reckon we need to unearth a Mike Hussey type who can slot straight in and score heavily - I reckon Carberry or Compton are more likely to do that.

The one position that is a bit up in the air is the Bopara one - some people think Compton will go and I'd assume it must be in place of Bopara.

I just can't believe Taylor won't go. Admittedly he hasn't had a great season in FC cricket, but I cannot see what Morgan, Bopara and even Root have done to usurp him. I can understand Root going if they don't see Taylor as a Test match opener, but to pick Morgan and Bopara ahead of him when they have done nothing to deserve being picked ahead of him. I will wait to see what the actual squad is before fully inflicting my Taylor-based wrath on the selectors, but I really can't understand it.

My 16 would be:

Cook (c), Compton, Bell, Trott, Bairstow, KP, Taylor, Prior, Swann, Anderson, Broad, Bresnan, Finn, Bresnan, Morgan, Patel.

11 for 1st test:

1. Cook
2. Compton
3. Trott
4. KP
5. Bell
6. Bairstow
7. Prior
8. Swann
9. Broad
10. Anderson
11. Finn

I know people want Monty in but runs are important so Bairstow retains place with his run scoring vs SA.

I think we have enough fire power tbh with the seamers and then Trott and KP to fill in if need be.

Assuming no KP, my 16 would be:

Cook, Trott, Bell, Taylor, Bairstow, Morgan, Prior, Bresnan, Finn, Broad, Anderson, Swann, Patel.

Then it depends. If they want Taylor to open the batting, then they could bring along Ravi I suppose. Very reluctantly. But he would be last in line to play. Or an opener, if not. So either Carberry, Compton or Root.

And then a spare keeper who doesn't really matter as he'll only play if Prior is injured. And a spare spinner who will only play if Swann is injured and whoever we take will probably get tonked anyway.

Carberry? What exactly has he done in CC this year? Just because he is older doesn't mean he is better.


Bresnan ahead of Onions? and Morgan/Ravi ahead of Taylor would be disgraceful.

The big question of course, well we all know. If the England selectors/ECB/Andy Flower has some sense left in them, then the man will be back. India would rather prefer them to get sensible after the tour though!.
I think Root has to make the squad for sure and I would have him opening as well along side captain Cook. Don't think Bopara has done anything to deserve a squad place, and Morgan hasn't done much to get a place ahead of Taylor. Morgan in the squad is something I don't have a problem with though. Graeme Onions would surely be wondering as to what more can he do to get back to that squad?

Test squad to be announced at 11, this would be my 16:

Cook
Root
Trott
Bell
Bairstow
Bopara
Taylor
Prior
Kieswetter
Swann
Tredwell
Panesar
Broad
Anderson
Finn
Onions

Cook, Compton, Trott, Bell, KP, Bairstow, Prior, Swann, Broad, Finn, Anderson, Keiswetter, Bresnan, Taylor, Panesar, Tredwell is who I'd be taking.

If Morgan is picked then it would be a massive slap in the face to the English county game. I can't pick Bopara for this tour as his form has been absolutely dreadful and I've gone for Bresnan over Onions as the former suits the conditions better.

I personally think we'll need five seamers - we're likely (or I hope so anyway) to play three most of the time, and with seamers more likely to carry niggles and the possibility of form loss I think we need two spare.

That might mean either taking 17 (its not like they can't afford it) or not taking a spare 'keeper and using Bairstow in that role should Prior go down.

We do need three spinners - we might need to play two at one point, and we need one as cover. I'm very annoyed if its true that Patel is going and Monty isn't though.

Cook
Root
Taylor
Trott
Bell
Bairstow
Compton

Prior
Bates

Bresnan
Broad
Anderson
Finn
Onions

Monty
Swann

Bates can definitely keep, but surely he isn't a like-for-like replacement for Prior?

If your only interested in keeping ability you might as well pick Foster

The Bopara conundrum is an interesting one, and it seems most on here are prepared to write him off on his ODI/T20 recent form. Interestingly enough most people don't think Morgan's recent form should be enough to get him on the plane.

Before the summer Bopara was set to be given a run of games at number 6 (like Morgan was before him) in the tests. Due to an unfortunate set of circumstances (first injury, then the personal issues) he didn't get that run. It is interesting then that people feel Taylor (who apart from one 30odd did nothing) has done quite so much to usurp him. Frankly if Bopara was ahead of Taylor at the start of the summer, then he is probably still ahead of him. So the question is whether he has sorted his issues out, and whether his recent poor form in the other formats should count against him.

Bairstow must go, because of his last test against South Africa, which has probably made him undroppable and means he should start.

Morgan is another interesting one: people talk about the county game, and it's well known that I don't really believe it's a good indicator of test class. I always thought Morgan had the ability to be a very good test player (Nasser Hussain agrees), but he went through a horrendous run of form which led to tinkering with his technique and accentuating his idiosyncracities. As a result his ODI form dropped as well. It seems he has sorted out his worst technical faults, and he has been England's star player in the shorter formats this summer. He has also publicly stated that he wants to get back into the side. It's hard to see what more he could have done, people will say he shouldn't have gone to the IPL, but by the time he was dropped from the side he had alread signed the contract, so that was pretty unfeasible.

Carberry is very average in my view. I can't see him being a successful test match batsman, but he could do reasonably as a stop gap until Root or someone else is ready.

I'm not sure Root is ready yet (like Shelsey I feel it's at least a year too soon). On the plus side he is a great fielder (so is Carberry to be fair) and could be a useful part-time spinner.

Compton has had a very good year but not opening (he did open for a bit at Middlesex and never played all that well, although he was far from poor).

I'd be tempted by James Vince. I know his first class record is poor, but to be frank that doesn't bother me (Trescothick, Vaughan, S. Jones, Harmison being the notable examples) - county games have different bowlers, different pitches, a different atmosphere (less pressure) and in Vince's case a different ball to test cricket. The guy oozes class, the question is whether he is mentally up to it right now.

I would like to make a request that once the squad is announced, if a certain player isn't in it we don't spend hours discussing the rights and wrongs on this thread, but move it to the other thread so that those of us interested in discussing other things can do so without reading through whinge after whinge. If the player is in it then issues have been sorted; if not, they haven't. Msp gives a typically one-sided view of the situation. My take is that the onus has been on Pietersen to show some balls and clear the air with the team, as well as comitting himself. If he does that then I would have him back, but on last chance saloon.

Regarding the bowlers I think things are fairly clear cut: it would be madness to take fewer than 5 seamers, so Bresnan and Onions will both go. Panesar will be the reserve spinner. Given there is a Lions tour happening not far away I suspect England won't take Kieswetter, but be prepared to use Bairstow if Prior gets injured to morning of a match, or fly in the Lions guy if enough time.

The questions seem to be:
- KP: in or out?
- Second opener? Whoever it is will have the whole tour to prove himself, as England are unlikely to take 2 new openers on tour, and unlikely to want Trott to move up IMO.
- Middle-order batsmen: 1 or 2 of Bopara, Morgan, Taylor.

Shelsey93 wrote:Bates can definitely keep, but surely he isn't a like-for-like replacement for Prior?

If your only interested in keeping ability you might as well pick Foster

Bates is a young young keeper though. Good experience.

I don't think Bates will ever play for England, as he isn't a good enough batsman, unless there is a move away from the current age requirement that your keeper must average 30+ and preferably 35+.

Assuming your rumours are correct...
Root has nothing to do with the Taylor/Bopara etc suituation. Hes there as a long term solution to the opener replacement, something England have ignored since nearly dropping cook ahead of the last Ashes tour.

Bopara and Morgan ahead of Taylor though, hmm. Well Morgan is supposed to be the spin specialist, but that didnt help him in "Pakistan". Bopara gives England the option of playing 4 bowlers....only Patel/Bresnan do that too.
England just hate Taylor. They only picked him through desperation in the first place. They obviously dont rate him that highly, and to be frank his returns have been poor ion the odd occasions hes been given a chance. Not to say that makes him any worse than Boparas recent form. The one thing is assuming they start Root and Baristow and Patel in a 5 man attack these guys wont even have a spot in the side anyway.
Tredwell ahead of Panessar, just seems wrong. I dont get it.

also when you have keeping options in Kieswetter, Bairstow even Buttler potentially down the line who are all a lot better batters then Bates is.

Interesting thoughts Mike.

I too have generally argued that Bopara should still be the 'man in possession' in Tests. As you say he's missed out on chances for various reasons. Its all too easy to fall into the trap and say that because he had a very bad one-day series he's a very poor player and will never score any runs anyway. That's not true. He's done pretty well for England intermittently and, given the current number of available batting places, it would seem strange not to pick him.

However, I've come to the conclusion that following the losses of Strauss and (almost certainly) KP we need some stability and that on his current levels of form Ravi won't provide that.

I personally think that Taylor, with his obvious talent and strong Lions record, must be given an extended chance. He didn't set the world alight against SA but was praised for his 30-odd in support of KP and only had one innings after that in a 'normal' situation. I think he's a good player and that, regardless of his average record in Div 1 this year, he has to go.

I also agree with you that Morgan has the capacity to be a good Test player. I do think, however, that he could do with FC runs under his belt and they simply haven't come. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a very good tour though.

Vince's FC record is frankly woeful. He shouldn't even be near the Lions squad in my view.

I don't think the bowlers will be that simple - the suggestion is quite strong that Monty won't go. As I said that, rather than 'he who shall not be named', would be the issue I'd be pretty angry about....

Bairstow is no keeper.

Bates is arguably the best keeper in CC. It does against the norm but imo the others lack the ability to keep in test cricket.

Stella wrote:Bairstow is no keeper.

Bates is arguably the best keeper in CC. It does against the norm but imo the others lack the ability to keep in test cricket.

Well, Bairstow keeps for Yorkshire - he can't be that bad or surely they wouldn't give him the gloves. Certainly, I can't imagine there could be a huge gulf between his keeping and Kieswetter's.

No but then again kieswetter is hardly wasim bari.

With the need for a keeper to be able to bat, the chances of Bates going are zero but this would be my squad.

Sorry is there something wrong with Prior?

As back up on tour Bairstow is good enough, previously all theyve had is Morgan. But as a potential long term starter? He needs to be doing a lot more work ( like Prior did), but right now he needs to establish himself as a batsman.

I really cant see England ever going down the road of picking an out and out specialist keeper for a long time.

Sorry is there something wrong with Prior?

----------------------------

Don't think so. He could get injured of course.

I have to agree with Shelsey on the Bopara connudrum. I agree with Mike over Vince and unlike Shelsey, I think he should get a Lions berth but there is no justification for picking him in the Test squad atm.

Carberry is very very average. Would prefer Compton and Root (whoever performs better in warm up games should get the nod).

I like Carberry but its hard to pick him at his age after averaging under 30 in Division Two this year.

Compton is a good age for me - old enough to hopefully hit the ground running like a Mike Hussey or Trott - and has had two very good Division One seasons back-to-back. It looks like he'll be picked, probably as spare batsman but I hope they give him the nod over Root once they get out to India.

Shelsey93 wrote:I like Carberry but its hard to pick him at his age after averaging under 30 in Division Two this year.

Compton is a good age for me - old enough to hopefully hit the ground running like a Mike Hussey or Trott - and has had two very good Division One seasons back-to-back. It looks like he'll be picked, probably as spare batsman but I hope they give him the nod over Root once they get out to India.

Surely that depends on how they cope in the warm up games. If Root shows better ability against spin, then he should be picked.

Shelsey93 wrote:
I also agree with you that Morgan has the capacity to be a good Test player. I do think, however, that he could do with FC runs under his belt and they simply haven't come. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a very good tour though.

To be fair, I'm not sure how many first class games Morgan has actually had - he seems to have been involved in one-day or Lions cricket for most of the season. My vague recollections is he scored a couple of 50s for Middlesex and did ok for the Lions.

Shelsey93 wrote:Vince's FC record is frankly woeful. He shouldn't even be near the Lions squad in my view.

Ignore his record for a moment (his record is better than both Trescothick and Vaughan's were when they made their test debuts BTW). Watch the guy bat. Then watch Carberry bat. Then tell me which one you think is the better player. I can't explain why he doesn't score more runs, maybe he needs to realise how good he is, maybe he needs to knuckle down and put in some hard work, or maybe he needs that bit of extra pressure to do well. I do know that the guy oozes class in a way which few players playing in England do. A bit like Dawid Malan (who has an average first class record, particularly for someone as good as he is); with Dawid he seems to find ways of getting out to nonchalant shots, with Vince I don't know (any Hampshire fans?).

Shelsey93 wrote:I don't think the bowlers will be that simple - the suggestion is quite strong that Monty won't go. As I said that, rather than 'he who shall not be named', would be the issue I'd be pretty angry about....

Hummm. My guess is something to do with his fielding on the SL tour?

Compton has had two good seasons, but not as an opener? If England are to pick him then surely it should be as a number 4?

If we dont take a bloke who averaged 56 in India when IMO he was a better bowler and who offers nothing else and is indeed a negative in the field, I cant get worked up about it.

I've always said with the Tresco and Vaughan selections that there was some luck involved. I assume that Duncan Fletcher also had a hunch that Usman Afzaal, Ed Smith, Anthony McGrath, Ian Ward, James Ormond, Chris Schofield and Liam Plunkett would be good Test players because of a similar hunch...

I agree with Mike on Vince: looks a cracking player whenever I watch him bat. The Morgan one is interesting, but I'd be tempted to ignore his FC form (I think he played about three games this year), what's important is he's making international runs again. I'd be tempted to take him on tour.

No Taylor would be a tad harsh on the lad, who wasn't exceptional against SA but didn't disgrace himself either. Bairstow has to go, and unless something spectacular happens, should play at least the first two tests. The more recent rumours were that KP had cleared the air somewhat with Cook? Would like him back if possible.

Now being suggested that Morgan might miss out after all

This is good fun.

- No KP
- No Taylor or Bopara
- Morgan is in
- Monty is in
- No Kieswetter
- No Tredwell - disappointing
- Patel is in - disappointing

Morgan, Patel, Root, Compton, Panesar all in.

No KP, Taylor or Keiswetter.

Morgan ahead of Taylor

from ECB site

England Test squad to tour India

Alastair Cook (captain, Essex)
James Anderson (Lancashire)
Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire)
Ian Bell (Warwickshire)
Tim Bresnan (Yorkshire)
Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire)
Nick Compton (Somerset)
Steven Finn (Middlesex)
Graham Onions (Durham)
Eoin Morgan (Middlesex)
Monty Panesar (Sussex)
Samit Patel (Nottinghamshire)
Matt Prior (Sussex)
Joe Root (Yorkshire)
Graeme Swann (Nottinghamshire)
Jonathan Trott (Warwickshire)

England Performance Programme squad to tour India

Jos Buttler (Somerset)
Gary Ballance (Yorkshire)
Scott Borthwick (Durham)
Danny Briggs (Hampshire)
Varun Chopra (Warwickshire)
Matthew Coles (Kent)
Jade Dernbach (Surrey)
Ben Foakes (Essex)
James Harris (Glamorgan)
Simon Kerrigan (Lancashire)
Craig Kieswetter (Somerset)
Stuart Meaker (Surrey)
Azeem Rafiq (Yorkshire)
Toby Roland-Jones (Middlesex)
Ben Stokes (Durham)
James Taylor (Nottinghamshire)
Chris Wright (Warwickshire)

Shelsey93 wrote:I've always said with the Tresco and Vaughan selections that there was some luck involved. I assume that Duncan Fletcher also had a hunch that Usman Afzaal, Ed Smith, Anthony McGrath, Ian Ward, James Ormond, Chris Schofield and Liam Plunkett would be good Test players because of a similar hunch...

Afzaal, Ward and Smith were picked on County form! Smith wasn't that much of a disaster, Afzaal just couldn't hack it mentally (something you mostly won't know until you see them try), Ward was awful. Plunkett was doing well in the county game also at the time. Can't remember about Ormond. McGrath was picked because England wanted an all-rounder and Schofield (2 tests against Zimbabwe) a leg-spinner.

Pleased for Rafiq and Ballance. Ballance has been knocking on the door these last 18 months and Rafiq has really matured since his stint as captain for the T20s.

I'm very surprised that Woakes isn't in the Performance Programme squad.

liverbnz wrote:Pleased for Rafiq and Ballance. Ballance has been knocking on the door these last 18 months and Rafiq has really matured since his stint as captain for the T20s.

Ballance is an interesting one. While he has now qualified via residency (and maybe relatives) he still goes back to Zimbabwe in the winter and has been the leading runscorer in their domestic cricket. I was wondering how long he would ignore the overtures from his home country to play internationally for them. If he attends the EPP stuff, does that tie him to england?

Initial thoughts:

- no Taylor is surprising, but England obviously feel he hasn't done enough.

- Bopara obviously hasn't sorted out his personal issues, unfortunately.

- Root in as Strauss's replacement at the top of the order.

- Compton rewarded for a very fine season of FC cricket, though it's unclear if they're looking at him as an opener or middle-order option.

- Morgan back as his form is returning, plus he's an excellent player of spin, which will be needed.

- a bit surprised by Patel's inclusion, but I think it must be about the balance of the side if England want to go in with three seamers and still have a second spin option.

- Monty in rather than Tredwell, not too fussed about this one TBH. Monty's the better bowler (though I like Tredwell as a cricketer), and will only play if Swann's injured I think (looking at the squad England are going with three seamers and one spinner).

- no surprises with the seamers, though Woakes not in the Performance Programme?

alos, who the heck is Ben foakes?

LondonTiger wrote:

liverbnz wrote:Pleased for Rafiq and Ballance. Ballance has been knocking on the door these last 18 months and Rafiq has really matured since his stint as captain for the T20s.

Ballance is an interesting one. While he has now qualified via residency (and maybe relatives) he still goes back to Zimbabwe in the winter and has been the leading runscorer in their domestic cricket. I was wondering how long he would ignore the overtures from his home country to play internationally for them. If he attends the EPP stuff, does that tie him to england?

He's always said he wanted to play for England so I guess he would have waited a while yet. NOt too sure whether playing for the EPP means he's completely closed the door on Zimbabwe. Anyone?

No Bates

Plays for essex LT

Looking at the squad my side for the first test would be:

Cook (c)
Root
Trott
Bell
Bairstow
Prior (wk)
Patel
Swann
Broad
Anderson
Finn

CF wrote:Plays for essex LT

not very often based on his cricinfo profile. Looks like he is the U19 keeper.

On that note I see that to keep the main squad at 16, Kieswetter is in the EPP. As they are shadowing the full team in India it means he is readily available should Prior's back play up again.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Initial thoughts:

- no Taylor is surprising, but England obviously feel he hasn't done enough.

- Bopara obviously hasn't sorted out his personal issues, unfortunately.

- Root in as Strauss's replacement at the top of the order.

- Compton rewarded for a very fine season of FC cricket, though it's unclear if they're looking at him as an opener or middle-order option.

- Morgan back as his form is returning, plus he's an excellent player of spin, which will be needed.

- a bit surprised by Patel's inclusion, but I think it must be about the balance of the side if England want to go in with three seamers and still have a second spin option.

- Monty in rather than Tredwell, not too fussed about this one TBH. Monty's the better bowler (though I like Tredwell as a cricketer), and will only play if Swann's injured I think (looking at the squad England are going with three seamers and one spinner).

- no surprises with the seamers, though Woakes not in the Performance Programme?

And Morgan has?

CF wrote:Plays for essex LT

I think we can determine that CF! But who is he? Bowler, batsman, wk, what?

very talented young wicket keeper, who is v/c of england u-19's.

Who is England's current V/C? Or do they have one?

no idea, i would assume that would be down to broad now