Scottish Rugby target GS & World Cup

First topic message reminder :

Read this on the bbc this morning...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/18650528

So the general consensus amongst Scottish fans on 606v2 is we should not get too carried away about the clean sweep in the SH.. well I think we forgot to tell the SRU.

Although rather ambitious, I personally think they're good goals for Scotland. The squad Scotland are building up at the moment is one of the better Scottish sides in a long time. There is also a good emphasis on improving pro clubs and nurturing grass roots. Combine this with the plan to develop players abroad for Scotland, things are looking pretty positive at the moment.

Despite the target of a GS and World Cup they also want to increase the winning percentage in the 6 Nations from 25% to 40%. I'm sure this will please many anti AR fans as it may well spell his end if we get another wooden spoon or 5th place finish. However, i'm fairly confident we wont be getting either of those results next year. Anyone fancy a wager?

Alive when you say 'the' rugby world cup you would more than not refer to the up and coming world cup- and that is what they mean in this case because they didnt say 'a' world cup- that isnt a goal because it doesnt have a time limit.

can u inderstand English ?

if so its quite clear what the target is.

and lieing is spelt lying.

Theres your problem pal right there

no can you understand english- Stop getting personal you troll and answer the question. Why do you think he is not talking about the next world cup?

123456789 wrote:If you're world cup goes badly the surely you would attempt to improve for the next one?

Yes but Scotland have this plan after every world cup, didnt you have a sense of Deja Vu after reading it?

Mystir and alive, play nice boys

123456789 - I think the SRU would benefit from your advice!

Bsando- they may just be trying to get a full crowd at murryfield for once..There may know excactly what they are doing and just trying to create a media storm to generate interest. But on the other hand its great ammo for us rival fans

Yeah quite possibly, I'm pretty sure the last NZ game was a sellout though. It was definitely a big crowd anyway. Scottish fans sure got their monies worth that day, haha! I've bought myself two tickets for the game and totally expect Scotland to get pumped again. However, my gf has a huge crush on Piri Weepu so I had to comply. Under the

I know it's all a bit silly to set as goals two things we haven't come close to doing for 20 years, but consider the alternatives.

All organisations set these sorts of targets - they put each financial year (or season) in a broader context of general improvement, and stop the organisation sacrificing long-term growth for short-term gains.

Yes, it's potentially ridiculous to state winning a world cup as a goal, but isn't that the goal of all teams entering the competition? I mean, are there teams who aren't aiming to win? I don't think it's arrogant to say that with the players coming through for Scotland, if they all play to their full potential with sound tactics, they've at least got a chance.

What would we be saying if the target was simply to reach the Quarter-finals? We'd say they were limited, happy with mediocrity, and content to simply make up the numbers. As a Scot, I'm not happy to be any of these things.

We're better than that.

Scotland are, by all accounts, a team in flux, who have yet to find their natural level of performance - some exciting new players, some dead wood cleared out, yet some poor coaching and even poorer results. Given the general disagreement over how good Scotland actually are, or could be, any target set by the SRU is bound to be ridiculed by someone.

the statement was all about if everyone can believe in the goal and support the team why cant they do it!!

thats the point - trying to get fans positive again i feel- scottish fans have been staying away from rugby for to long i suppose..

Chris Paterson backs World Cup target

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/18660275

bsando wrote:Chris Paterson backs World Cup target

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/18660275

Sigh

mystiroakey wrote:the statement was all about if everyone can believe in the goal and support the team why cant they do it!!

thats the point - trying to get fans positive again i feel- scottish fans have been staying away from rugby for to long i suppose..

Scotland need to walk not talk to be honest we've been listening to their goals and aims for many years, they just never reach the standards they set themselves. It might be better to shut up and keep their heads down until they do something in the 6 Nations.

To be fair mossy is hardly gonna say anything else is he...

It's a shame (and predictable) that the slightly silly part of the statement, the target, is grabbing the headlines. What's far more interesting (and positive as far as I'm concerned) is the stated focus on the two professional sides as a means of taking the game forward in Scotland. That's an important emphasis and the right strategy.

I have no issue with ambition, but targets like that just grab headlines and invite mockery. Especially when you are the current holders of the Wooden Spoon. The far more interesting part of the statement is the focus on the two professional sides.

Stupid SRU...the news is Visser Gray and the other stars and 3/3 not how they might win the world cup and are going to get a grand slam....very very stupid.

Targets like any have to be realistic, I'm not sure in any business right now where projecting sales figures by being over estimating figures means trouble as you overspend in getting there if you do not achieve the goals set.

I would still like to see more effort at grass routes selling the game to all schools and putting more area coaches in at this level and in time we should get he rewards.

In that all companies must have targets and stand by them by hook or by crook.

123skelm wrote:Targets like any have to be realistic, I'm not sure in any business right now where projecting sales figures by being over estimating figures means trouble as you overspend in getting there if you do not achieve the goals set.

I would still like to see more effort at grass routes selling the game to all schools and putting more area coaches in at this level and in time we should get he rewards.

In that all companies must have targets and stand by them by hook or by crook.

Grass roots is right as Beattie says on the BBC.

And I think you have hit the nail on the head regarding the corporate nature of the 'targets' that have been set which may attract private investment and can justify grant applications to govt. Rugby is big business. But as Wales have learned making these public announcements puts pressure on the team itself.

We're on the march wi' Robbos Army,
We're going tae the Twiken - en - ammm,
And we'll really shake them up,
When we win the World Cup,
'Cos Scotland is the greatest rugby team,

rinse and repeat until totally blootered

It is alright Chris Paterson saying that he backs Scotland for the Rugby World Cup. I mean he wont even ve there will he? No he as retired from international rugby.

I realy think that Scotland willl simply have to take it one step at a time.
Try and win A Grand Slam first before they start thinking about winning the Rugby World Cup.

But then that is just me.

I am happy to see the summer tours have been such a success for scotland, we seldom see Scotland focused articles on here, it is good to see.

[quote="IanBru"]I know it's all a bit silly to set as goals two things we haven't come close to doing for 20 years, but consider the alternatives.

All organisations set these sorts of targets - they put each financial year (or season) in a broader context of general improvement, and stop the organisation sacrificing long-term growth for short-term gains.

Yes, it's potentially ridiculous to state winning a world cup as a goal, but isn't that the goal of all teams entering the competition? I mean, are there teams who aren't aiming to win? I don't think it's arrogant to say that with the players coming through for Scotland, if they all play to their full potential with sound tactics, they've at least got a chance.

What would we be saying if the target was simply to reach the Quarter-finals? We'd say they were limited, happy with mediocrity, and content to simply make up the numbers. As a Scot, I'm not happy to be any of these things./quote]

This.

All teams enter the RWC with the intention of trying to win it, some are more likely to than others, but all go into it with the aim of winning. Why should Scotland say we're just going to try our best and not get horsed by every team we come up against. Granted our chances of actually winning are slim (very slim) but we should at least be aiming to win. Worth noting as well is that they haven't said we will win, but they've we aim to win

Also just to be clear, I'm not putting any money on Scotland winning the 2015 RWC as I don't actually think we will win the tournament, but we can aim to win it and if we fail then we fail, but at least we've been brave with our ambitions.

Would have been more realistic stating that a semi ffinal place was the target.

Wonder how the players themselves feel about this announcement - Cusiter hasn't tweeted anything yet.

They've probably been given an official party line or, in other words, don't say anything!

Michaelangelo: "The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark."

Problem with setting your aims too high - is that you can sacrifice things and fail to even live up to your potential.


Of course as Scotland underachieved against the last 5 year plan (RWC 1/4 final, top 8 in World Rankings, 40% win record in 6Ns) perhaps unrealistic targets are what they need.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Michaelangelo: "The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark."

+1

The world cup target is ver very very ambitious. I can't see it happening personaly. As ASBO/Michaelangelo said its better to aim higher and fail than aim for mediocracy and attain it.

I mean Jeez if we came out and said we should be aiming to beat Italy + A. Nother team in the 6N I would be pretty miffed with the lack of confidence.

I think a 6N GS is achieveable for Scotland before the next world cup. We have he foundations of a very good young side with player like Rennie / Barclay / Denton / Gray / Jones / Visser / Hogg / Laidlaw / Scott / Harley et al, all not quite at their best yet. I have said for ages that it'll be a couple of seasons before we see the best out of some of these guys.

The target is positive, if a little unrealistic. The winning the RWC part is ludicrous and for a good reason invites mockery. However winning a Grand Slam is achievable, and building success for the clubs is already underway with the Burgh having a stormer in the ERC and Glasgow having a very strong Rabo Season. I wonder how many thought Edinburgh would have done so well in their HC campeign.

If these club performances can be backed up next season with more of the same I think both targets become a lot less laughable.

I think what is spoken in the media and spoken in the change rooms are to entirely different scenario's

Scotland like all teams will be focusing on the next game.

I never understood how teams can plan 4 years ahead, these gus should all know when a goal is 50 tests away, it is more a case of where would we like to be, rather than where will we be.

Andy Robinson has been building a nice squad.

In my view things are coming together, and his next target will be to beat a few more SH teams come November, once that has been accomplished they will go into the Six Nations with realistic goals of what they want to achieve.

Scotland has been criticised for not scroing tries in the past 12 months, now they have, even though it may not have been against top teams, it all culminates in more belief.

What is better -

aim for the stars yet fail to even achieve mediocrity

aim for and achieve mediocrity

I can't help but think this is going to be a pivotal season that will define whether Scottish rugby will be successful over the next 10 years or so.

Clubs

Great seasons for both clubs after years of mediocrity (Glasgow qualifying for the Rabbo playoffs once before this season the exception). Don't care that Edinburgh's Rabbo form was crap - we made a HK semi final (which not many more high profile teams can say they've done).

The key for me is though that if we have another mediocre season this year then we are right back to square one. All the momentum will be lost in terms of crowd interest and investment in the game, and we will be back to small crowds and living off the odd big win.

However, one or two teams qualifies for the HK QF again (a bigger ask than last year looking at the groups), and one or two teams gets into the Rabbo playoff, then things can really take off. Look at what the extra prize money from this season has done - both teams now have a budget similar to some AP teams. Get similar prize money this season and we can build even further.

Scotland

I really can't cope with another disappointing 6N. Every year the chat is always about how it is finally time for Scotland to deliver - and they never do. This year is different though - our enthusiasm is founded on young, genuinely talented players who are yet to hit their primes, as opposed to be nearing the end of them. We have 3 home games this year and we must win them all.

Like the clubs there is a bit of momentum after a successful summer tour, and hopefully a decent Autumn series, and if we have a poor 6N it will, again, be right back to square one.

There is gonna be so much pressure this 6N. lets hope the boys deliver (finally!).

Numbahs, I reckon you've put a fair bit of thought into these from reading them, so I'll try to give an equally thought-out reply:

123456789 wrote:If I was setting the targets I'd target a world cup by 2027 and base all other targets around achieving it.
My first target would be setting up a schools league and aim to get 90%+ of Schools involve with a pyramid structure so that the clubs at the bottom play regionally giving local rivalries a chance to be fought on the rugby pitch. The top team goes into a wider league which takes in from a wider group this continues until you go national. I'd also give clubs feeder schools which they form links with therefore they will maximize their uptake. These clubs would also have district leagues. Their top players would go into a district competition which would then feed into a regional team (of which there'd be four) which would become an "academy" when they reached 16. Hopefully these regional teams could compete in an age group Celtic cup or a British cup. These regions would feed into the Scottish teams; this would mean that there would be a pyramid structure that meant that there is always a higher level to aim for until you reach the top. It would also hopefully increase the player base and you'd get less thrashings which put young players off and nearly all would be playing at their own level.
This gives a pyramid of Schools-Club-District-Region-Scotland

I worry slightly that you're target of 2027 is a long way off, 15 years hence. The next RWC is in 2015, and i think we need to have a short-term target for that as well as something for the longer-term, say the RWC 2023. But you are absolutely right about the schools part - I don't know off the top of my head how many schools are actually playing rugby, altho i read in the Hootsmon this morning that MSPs are to "probe access to sports as locals claim few can afford them" - so I imagine that it is very few. Targets could easily be set around that too - let's say getting 25% of schools playing at least tag rugby up to age XX by 2015, then a target of say 25% of schools offering contact rugby up to the age XX by 2018, and so on. I really like your pyramid structure - schools feed into a club, clubs belong to a district (4 in all, South, Embra, Glasgow, and the North&Midlands, and the pro-teams represent the district, each with an academy attached. Not sure how your distinction between districts and 'regions' works tho? Could you elaborate? I totally agree with you that this is the best (and only) way to increase the playing base in Scotland.

123456789 wrote:My second target would be to sell out Murrayfield for all tier 1 games and to spread the game by taking tier two games around the country. I would aim to regularly sell out the pro-team stadiums and to achieve an average of 6000 by 2015 and 8000 by 2020.

I think at the Scotland level, we already come pretty close to achieving this, and with the marketing bent of the new management group, it seems likely that this will continue. Moving games around, Samoa last year in Aberdeen, 'A' team vs England at Netherdale, and Tonga this year back in Aberdeen seems to me like exactly the right way to go. As for the pro-district teams, I honestly believe that Embra would be better served in their own stadium, so I remain in favour of the move to a refurbished Meadowbank. I think more could be done to market the current two teams (and hopefully 4 in future), even if that means giving away free tickets to schoolchildren to fill up otherwise empty seats. Of course, to a large extent, attendance will be driven by success on the field too.

123456789 wrote:My third target would be to have four pro-teams by 2020 and three by 2018 which should be feasible with the regional academies, these teams would represent the club teams in their area and each player would be assigned a club with whom he'd train once a week and play for should his team not be playing or if he isn't needed for the match. As far as possible this team should be the team that the player player played for as he grew up, in the case of signings from other clubs the pro-team would sign a player and then clubs from the area could bid to sign him. The player would have to play at least five times a year for his club. This would also mean that there was a wider playing base. This would see a club in Aberdeen as well as one in the Borders (they could build a new 20,000 seater stadium which could double up as the Scotland sevens stadium) these teams would be partially owned by private investors perhaps 70% as well as 10% by the clubs in the area and 20% by the SRU; if it was feasible to have a two-tiered celtic league competition I would base a fifth side in another city with a decent population, this side would be unique as players from the academies who weren't deemed good enough would play for them thus less players would slip through the net.

All good ideas here too, most of which I agree with. Instead of a new stadium in the Borders tho, I'd be tempted to continue the redevelopment of Netherdale - it has the undersoil heating that is essential in Scotland and can already accommodate 6k, so could be increased in line with improving revenues in a piecemeal fashion rather than having to splash out on a brand new stadium all at once. Private investors are an essential requirement for the game in Scotland, but again I suspect that this will largely be driven by success on the field combined with an accommodating stance from the SRU. The player arrangements that you describe above make a lot of sense, altho I'm a little sceptical of a 5th pro-side in Scotland, unless you are going to split the North from the Midlands. If the demand and the finances are there in time, so be it.

123456789 wrote:My fourth aim would be to for a Scottish team to win the Heineken cup five times by 2025, and at least won team to reach the quarters 90% years so that our top players are playing at the highest level more often to achieve this I'd sign more top quality foreigners to Glasgow and Edinburgh whilst retaining a Scottish core i.e Rennie, Laidlaw, Scott, Brown, De Luca etc. as well as Talei at Edinburgh meaning more Scots stay in the country. As well as a seven Rabodirect league wins by the same year.
I'd also aim for a Six nations win every four/five years and top three finishes most years. This would mean that by 2027 hopefully we'd be in a position to challenge for the world cup as well as retaining an infrastructure that would mean that we'd be able to compete regularly. Another thing I'd implement is taking our age grade teams on three test tours of the tri-nations team's age grade side therefore initially they'd be thrashed but hopefully eventually the players would get used to the standard and start to compete it would also remove the players from the comfort zone of their own country which at age grade they would find relatively easy.

I also support your targets around the Heino, the league, and the 6Ns - yours seem quite high, but better to aim high and miss rather than undershoot.

123456789 wrote:Whilst these aims may be difficult to implement and financially ambitious it would meant that are players are challenged younger and also it would increase the interest in the game. Also with the four individual academies rivalries and competition will increase between the sides and areas would end up with different playing styles like Leinster and Munster. I think our aims should start with developing the game internally then work from there.

What you are proposing is an extremely ambitious plan and one that would be very financially taxing, but if the Scottish government can urine away billions on a crap tram system in Edinburgh, then by contrast an initiative of this sort should not be ruled out. Success at the top level, the national team and the pro-districts will be needed to get things started imo, but this should not hinder the planning for the work in schools etc.

LordDowlais wrote:Oh well, good luck Scotland, and why not ? After all I am targeting the next big euro millions, the 150 million one, then after I have had my fill of the good life I am looking for a country to conquer, it as always been my ambition to be a bond villian, well that and eat the biggest stake I can find in one sitting.

Fair enough but watch out for splinters.

Can you eat a stake you are sitting on?

Or is that not where the splinters have gone?

I concur that this is a massive season for Scottish rugby, particularly at club level. Both sides had success last season, and both have invested. Interest from fans is on the way up. Poor seasons from Glasgow and Edinburgh now and we'll take a big step backwards.

Everything stems from pro club success, it's the only way to get serious money into Scottish rugby and to start building these grass roots targets that everyone is so keen on (every kid in Scotland playing rugby etc etc.). It starts at the pro clubs though. The government are not going to heavily subsidise Scottish rugby, not in the current climate, and the real money will have to come from the private sector, and initially the fans. Grow the support, private money will become more available, and then things can flow from there.

Whilst the targets are slightly silly, the focus and the strategy were spot on in my view. Get Glasgow and Edinburgh to enjoy sustained success. If that happens their fan bases will grow, the players will improve, Scotland will be more successful and kids will become more interested. When families attend en masse, and kids want to play the game, then schools will accommodate. I don't think that's an interest you can manufacture though. It starts with Edinburgh and Glasgow being successful.

I thought that this was interesting and contained much sense - it's one of the comments on JB's blog, from old-time 606 poster ScottishSevensNutjob:

STRATEGIC PLAN FOR SCOTTISH GRASSROOTS RUGBY

DISTRICTS: Broaden the Scottish district set-up to 8 teams.

The North
The Midlands
Glasgow
Strathclyde
Edinburgh
Lothian
The South
+
The Exiles (London Scottish)

The Scottish district set-up represents every geographical area of Scotland + exiles. It doesn't allow for a disproportionate representation of private schools or Border teams, as the regular school/ club set-up does.

It allows the coaches of the North district to cherry pick promising young players from smaller teams like Black Isle, Aboyne, Ballater, Turriff or state rugby schools like Aberdeen Grammar, Wick and Thurso, or community clubs like Orkney and Ellon all of whose regular season schedule is nowhere near as competitive as the private rugby schools of Robert Gordon’s and Gordonstoun.

AGE GRADES:
Each region should be fielding teams at the following levels: U-15, U-16, U-17 and U-18.

At every age grade, you can centralise the best 176 players in Scotland and move them up to an elite level. You can take the opportunity to give them exercise and dietary advice, as well as professional coaching. At the U-15 level, you are doing this a year earlier than most nations. You are putting more kids in the shop window for picking the age-grade national team and get the public buzzing about which U-18s will get the draft.

ELITE LEVEL:
The 7 Scottish based teams compete in a league (6 games each), with the final round of fixtures to be played in Murrayfield. The Exiles (London Scottish) can attend as a guest team to play the 7th team that has completed all their fixtures and this can make up 8 teams and 4 fixtures. Every Scottish rugby supporter can root for their district of origin, which means all Scottish supporters will have an interest.

BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW:

Brewin Dolphin Schools’ Cup Final
An early Christmas present is on offer at Murrayfield with four school teams fighting it out for the Brewin Dolphin School’s Cup; the Final takes place on Saturday 26 November at Murrayfield Stadium in Edinburgh.

Under 16 Cup Final
Dollar Academy v George Watson’s College [BOTH PRIVATE SCHOOLS]
Saturday 26 November, 4pm, International Pitch

Under 18 Cup Final
The Edinburgh Academy v George Watson's College [BOTH PRIVATE SCHOOLS]
Saturday 26 November, 6pm, International Pitch

Making sure that Nairn Academy have a rugby team is not going to make a bit of difference unless there is a way to step up their best players.

If you want to get more kids playing the game, you have to give them a game.

Need to get that guy on V2 - I quite liked him!

If you still had an account on old 606, I'm sure you could log in and advertise! Not quite sure how the BEEB would take it tho!

I don't think either targets are too bad, though I did laugh. It wasn't so long ago that a GS for Wales seemed far fetched. A WC, anything can happen once you get out of the groups really, so with a bit of luck they could do well.

By the way, what is the South of Scotland thing about. Saw a shirt on a rugby site, without explanation. I see they've played before off a quick google search, but are they due some more fixtures?

Risca Rev wrote:I don't think either targets are too bad, though I did laugh. It wasn't so long ago that a GS for Wales seemed far fetched. A WC, anything can happen once you get out of the groups really, so with a bit of luck they could do well.

By the way, what is the South of Scotland thing about. Saw a shirt on a rugby site, without explanation. I see they've played before off a quick google search, but are they due some more fixtures?

The South is the district that covers the Borders, mostly amateurs or semi-pros - their professional manifestation was as the Border Reivers, sadly now defunct. They do still play the odd game, mostly invitational stuff tbh

I also found this set of targets as being somewhat more readily achievable!:

Something like:

1 Try and get 60% of schools playing rugby in 3 years, 80% in 5.
2 Both pro teams to make the KO stages of the HEC or Amlin cup at least 3 times in the next 5 years
3 Over the next 5 years both pro teams should be challenging for and appear in the league semis.
4 In 2016 have the player base to potentially have a 3rd pro team.
5 Win a minimum of 3 games in the next two 6N.
6 Challenge for the 6N in 2015 onwards
7 Aim of reaching a the 2015 WC semis (draw dependant) but QFs being the main aim for 2015.

I'm really not a massive targets fan. Rather than debate whether we should set the target at QF, SF, F or W for the next world cup, I'd rather we spent our energy focusing on how to make our national team as good as it can be (and how we achieve that is by far and away the most crucial question).

What we ultimately achieve depends on variables outwith our control, most notably other teams (if it wasn't for other teams we'd be awesome).

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Michaelangelo: "The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark."

He truely was the wisest of the Ninja Turtles

Scot Abroad wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Michaelangelo: "The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark."

He truely was the wisest of the Ninja Turtles

cowabunga

Which one ate pizza all the time? He was my favourite!

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Numbahs, I reckon you've put a fair bit of thought into these from reading them, so I'll try to give an equally thought-out reply:

123456789 wrote:If I was setting the targets I'd target a world cup by 2027 and base all other targets around achieving it.
My first target would be setting up a schools league and aim to get 90%+ of Schools involve with a pyramid structure so that the clubs at the bottom play regionally giving local rivalries a chance to be fought on the rugby pitch. The top team goes into a wider league which takes in from a wider group this continues until you go national. I'd also give clubs feeder schools which they form links with therefore they will maximize their uptake. These clubs would also have district leagues. Their top players would go into a district competition which would then feed into a regional team (of which there'd be four) which would become an "academy" when they reached 16. Hopefully these regional teams could compete in an age group Celtic cup or a British cup. These regions would feed into the Scottish teams; this would mean that there would be a pyramid structure that meant that there is always a higher level to aim for until you reach the top. It would also hopefully increase the player base and you'd get less thrashings which put young players off and nearly all would be playing at their own level.
This gives a pyramid of Schools-Club-District-Region-Scotland

I worry slightly that you're target of 2027 is a long way off, 15 years hence. The next RWC is in 2015, and i think we need to have a short-term target for that as well as something for the longer-term, say the RWC 2023. But you are absolutely right about the schools part - I don't know off the top of my head how many schools are actually playing rugby, altho i read in the Hootsmon this morning that MSPs are to "probe access to sports as locals claim few can afford them" - so I imagine that it is very few. Targets could easily be set around that too - let's say getting 25% of schools playing at least tag rugby up to age XX by 2015, then a target of say 25% of schools offering contact rugby up to the age XX by 2018, and so on. I really like your pyramid structure - schools feed into a club, clubs belong to a district (4 in all, South, Embra, Glasgow, and the North&Midlands, and the pro-teams represent the district, each with an academy attached. Not sure how your distinction between districts and 'regions' works tho? Could you elaborate? I totally agree with you that this is the best (and only) way to increase the playing base in Scotland.

I meant smaller parts in the regions which could compete with each other; so in each region there'd be groups of five or six clubs which come together to compete in a regional cup, you could even expand by between the ages of 11 and 16 having District leagues therefore youngsters wouldn't be put off by travelling long distances and getting smashed. Perhaps introducing touch at a young age for primary school kids thus improving our players skills which we seem to struggle with. Obviously only if the money was available you could introduce cash incentives for how far you get in your respective competitions, in the days of saving on Educations schools will do anything for extra funding another idea would be to have players from the regions responsible for the schools in the area of their club meaning they were more accessible.

I think you should target 15 years ahead- I think the same thing about the England football team- Its all about the new generation trained from the start. Scottish rugby hasnt got the minerals as english footy hasnt- we have to train em from youngsters

mystiroakey wrote:I think you should target 15 years ahead- I think the same thing about the England football team- Its all about the new generation trained from the start. Scottish rugby hasnt got the minerals as english footy hasnt- we have to train em from youngsters

What do you think was ARs main issue and objective when he took on the job!!.............. build a more robust youth and developement policy, no we are seeing the fruits of his demands

The main thing is even though we lost all five 6Ns matches we weren't that dar off, and could have won at least three of them. Come February next year the inexperience of our youth will be a more secure and confident unit.

I am confident we will put some of the near 6Ns losses into wins in 2013

flyhalffactory wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:I think you should target 15 years ahead- I think the same thing about the England football team- Its all about the new generation trained from the start. Scottish rugby hasnt got the minerals as english footy hasnt- we have to train em from youngsters

What do you think was ARs main issue and objective when he took on the job!!.............. build a more robust youth and developement policy, no we are seeing the fruits of his demands

The main thing is even though we lost all five 6Ns matches we weren't that dar off, and could have won at least three of them. Come February next year the inexperience of our youth will be a more secure and confident unit.

I am confident we will put some of the near 6Ns losses into wins in 2013

Sounds awfully Welsh fhf! I think it starts sooner though don't you....if Scotland can beat SA in the Autumn they will go into the 6 Nations as something of an unknown quantity and I think everyone will have to take notice. I think the SA fixture is th single most importnat game of AR's strategy.

mowgli wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:I think you should target 15 years ahead- I think the same thing about the England football team- Its all about the new generation trained from the start. Scottish rugby hasnt got the minerals as english footy hasnt- we have to train em from youngsters

What do you think was ARs main issue and objective when he took on the job!!.............. build a more robust youth and developement policy, no we are seeing the fruits of his demands

The main thing is even though we lost all five 6Ns matches we weren't that dar off, and could have won at least three of them. Come February next year the inexperience of our youth will be a more secure and confident unit.

I am confident we will put some of the near 6Ns losses into wins in 2013

Sounds awfully Welsh fhf! I think it starts sooner though don't you....if Scotland can beat SA in the Autumn they will go into the 6 Nations as something of an unknown quantity and I think everyone will have to take notice. I think the SA fixture is th single most importnat game of AR's strategy.

Hey there Mowgli

When I see the names Gray, Rennie, Denton, Blair, Laidlaw, Visser, Hogg, Lamont on paper I would IMHO rather have them before any of the other 6Ns alternatives, so even at this early stage I am confident that we can stand up to the French, Welsh, English and give a good account. But I agree a win against SA (even maybe NZ ), and we will go into the next 6Ns fearing no-one

Hold your horses fhf, I think if you beat NZ the 6 Nations MUST be cancelled

This overly optimistic enthusiasm is very un Scottish as grim realism has been the order of the day for so long, but personally i would like to thank you for taking the heat of the taffs!

With the names you have mentioned and belief I think SA are doable as long as you bloody the All black nose first and don't get blown away by 50 plus pts.