Saracens vs Clermont

This match needs a thread. I feel like this game has been brushed under the carpet by many.

Two of the teams on the rise.

The 2010-11 Aviva Premiership champions vs the 2009-10 Top 14 champions.

Both 2nd respectively in their domestic leagues.

Both with a fair few players who featured in the 6 nations.

Some very fascinating battles to look forward to such as Barritt vs Fofana, Strettle vs Malzieu, Goode vs Byrne, Borthwick vs Hines, Farrell vs Rougerie etc.

There is so much class in the Clermont squad but if Parra doesn't play what do they do at scrum half?

I feel that if Saracens are to win they need Brits and Joubert in particular to fire on all cylinders and Barritt to shut down the Clermont attack.

If Parra is injured they need to put as much pressure as possible on the Clermont halfbacks.

Thoughts?

is Sivivatu playing?

Joubert needs to up his workrate. I know it is a tactic for him to stay one side of the pitch, but with an inexperience back row he needs to lead by example. Too often recently he has bveen lazy - he gets away with it when burger and Brown fill the gaps, but the match at wembley showed what can happen. Quins dominated the breakdown and drove well round the fringes.

Sarries invariably raise their game for the biggest matches - and plenty in Swansea behaved as if they were easy meat. However recent form has not been great.

Final kiss of death - I tipped Sarries to win on SG.

aucklandlaurie wrote: is Sivivatu playing?

a small chance but unlikely

he's among the list of potential missing players (hopefully all wont miss the game)
- Gerhard Vosloo
- Daniel Kotze
- Davit Zirakashvili
- Sitiveni Sivivatu
- Alexandre Lapandry
- Julien Malzieu
- Morgan Parra

to add to the injured players that are certainly going to miss the game:
- Thomas Domingo
- Clément Ric
- Gonzalo Canale
- Anthony Floch
- Regan King

by the way good effort by the Clermont supporters : heard 1500-2000 of them are travelling.

I fancy Saracens to win this one. Clermont aren't the same side away from home and if Saracens can front up and match Clermont physically the way Ulster did then there's no reason they can't pull this off.

The sarries back row need to be relentless and put pressure on Parra if he plays.

Saracens by 7.

well Parra will play as well as some of the others who had caught some injuries

Byrne ; Sivivatu, Rougerie, Fofana, Malzieu ; Skrela, Parra ; Lapandry, Vermeulen, Bonnaire ; Hines, Cudmore ; Zirakashvili, Kayser, Faure.

bench: Debaty, Paulo, Kotze, Pierre, Bardy, Radosavljevic, James, Buttin.

Skrela starting as it has been most of the case in away case. nice starting XV if except the absence of Vosloo in the backrow and Ric in the front row.

The Clermont team is class. Although I quite fancy Sarries chances who also have a star filled team. What is the starting XV btw Beshocked?

That is a strong Clermont side, if the Saracens scrum is as poor as last week then I can see Parra having a field day.

Saracens will need to be as physical as they possibly can and control the breakdown and then the pace of the game. Keep it tight for most of it and try to not give Para anything to kick.

Bloody dangerous side there from Clermont. But if Barritt gets the line speed right (he will) and stops the ball from ever getting to the back 3 then Sarries can contain them. They need to improve the breakdown from last week, and mix composure with intensity- against us they looked cool as cucumbers even when a score down but that backfired because when they went 2 scores down they had too much to do in too short a time. You can't take the pressure off ASM

I think Sarries are really going to miss Burger for this one. But they are a team that knows how to win, I can see them sneaking it by less than 3...

I fancy Sarries for this. Didn't realise ASM were missing so many - that aside I fancied Sarries when the draw was made. They seem to have a big game temperament and any question marks would really have been whether their back line would have been able to match ASM's if they managed to up the tempo. I think this question was answered in the 6N as we know now that the Sarries back line will be will be marshalled by Barritt and Farrell who have both shown that the can cope comfortably at test level.
ASM have yet to beat a big name on the road and I don't think they'll fancy Vicarage Rd one bit.

Sarries by no more than 7 in what may well be the tightest game of the weekend.

Really looking forward to this one and another who think that Sarries will take it but not by much. Will be interesting to see the Sarries team, my guess is Stevens won't start after last week as a weak scrum will be severely punished by the French.

Also be interesting to see who Sarries play in the backline. I'd assume Barritt will be back so Farrell will probably move to 13 but personally thought Wyles has looked good there the last few weeks and will be unlucky if he misses out. Goode's recent form means that Clermont's kicking game had better be good.

COME ON SARRIES!

Well said Pete

Saracens team :

15. Alex Goode, 14. David Strettle, 13. Owen Farrell, 12. Brad Barritt, 11. Chris Wyles, 10. Charlie Hodgson, 9. Richard Wigglesworth, 1. Rhys Gill, 2. Schalk Brits, 3. Matt Stevens, 4. Steve Borthwick (capt), 5. Mouritz Botha, 6. Justin Melck, 7. Will Fraser, 8. Ernst Joubert.

Replacements: 16. Jamie George, 17. Mako Vunipola, 18. Carlos Nieto, 19. George Kruis, 20. Jackson Wray, 21. Neil de Kock, 22. Adam Powell, 23. James Short.

good to see Wigglesworth making his come back. who is Chris Wiles though?

Wiles is an American winger/centre. He's quick pretty strong and very smart. I think many would have preferred him at 13 to Farrel who is there for his boot and nothing else.

Sarries definitely see Farrell as their reserve stand off, butdo not trust Hodgson's boot. What we get is a midfield that is always in danger of being less than the sum of their parts. This is odd as Sarries biggest asset is they way they fight for each other and become greater than the collective skills.

Hodgson is a really classy distributor. With Barritt at 12 keeping the opposition defence honest, Hodgsons ability to fizz passes off either hand, behind Barritt, to a centre with a good outside break can create dangerous situations. Farrell, for all hs undioubted talents, is not the man Sarries need at 13.

I guess what we will see instead is diagonal kicks and counter attacks. I hope Sarries win, but suspect that they will make their fans sweat.

I would prefer that they actually rotated Hodgson/Farrell rather then play him at 13. Start Hodgson then bring Farrell on at 60ish then the next week vise versa.

Powell or Wiles should be at 13 long term then with Tomkins maybe trying out next season.

In the short term i agree yappy - Sarries would look better with a proper 13. However Farrell will learn more by playing and trying to understand how things work for those who will be outside him.

Tbh watching these games so far this weekend I don't think it'll matter too much who's at 13. It's been all about the breakdown so far and if Saracens are on form I really fancy their chances. The refs seem to be wanting as much competition on the floor as possible which will really help them.

The problem is that Sarries are down to their 3rd choice flankers, I don't see them winning a breakdown battle.

With Clermont having lost away to Ulster & Leicester this competition, I would have backed Sarries to win this at full strength, but I think their injuries in the forwards will cost them in a knockout game.

To restore some pride back to the Jeff we need Saracens to win, it can be as ugly and attritional as they want but please win!

Agree though Niwatts injuries could be a major issue. Never really heard much of Melck and Wray are they any good?

Yappysnap Wray is a good young prospect. Ex England U20s number 8. Good ball carrier and athletic. Always adds a bit of impetus when he comes on.

Melck is normally a hard working blindside flanker who gets little credit. Was poor against Quins though. Not as talented as the likes of Burger and Brown but puts in a lot of effort normally.

Agree though that a big game is needed from the backrow. Particularly Joubert as LondonTiger said.

Saracens do have the players to match Clermont- they just need to put in the big performances we know they are capable of.

Home advantage should count for something surely?

Oh and Yappysnap thanks.

No worries Beshocked, i'll be rooting for you boys tomorrow. You have to win it. If you do then I genuinely think you can go all the way (injuries permitting).

Good luck and give them a

beshocked wrote:Saracens do have the players to match Clermont- they just need to put in the big performances we know they are capable of.

On a man for man comparison, i would say that Clermont are superior by a clear margin**. Thankfully rugby does not work like that and usually Sarries are a team who optimise their talents really well. The news of Brits injury doubts must be a worry for Sarries fans.


** Just my own opinion but:

Goode = Byrne
Wyles < Sivivatu
Farrell < Rougerie (as 13)
Barritt < Fofana
Strettle < Malzieu
Hodgson > Skrela
Wiggy < Parra
Joubert = Vermeulen
Fraser < Lapandry
Melck < Bonnaire
Botha = Hines
Borthwick > Cudmore
Stevens < Faure
Brits > Kayser
Gill = Zirakashvilli

Come on Sarries.

Well i hope Sarries win today. It would be funny not to have a French team there.

Skrela off, thats a big blow.

I have a soft spot for Clermont, ever since Stevo played some rugby for them, so will be hoping they win.

Mainly though, I just want a really good game!

Alain Rolland is the man in the middle.

Clermont have it in the bag.

Mark of Zorro

Oooh someones in trouble here

Hodgson it was that took him high. Could have been a yellow

oof just a penalty. Lucky lucky charlie boy.

rugbydreamer wrote:oof just a penalty. Lucky lucky charlie boy.

not really, looking at the replay it was shoulder height.

getting pretty annoyed with the French play acting though.

I have seen those given. Sarries geting nothing out there

aye, Parra didn't really need to roll round like that.

Still think Charlie was lucky, have seen less then that get a yellow before.

Scrums....could be a long day.

nathan wrote:

rugbydreamer wrote:oof just a penalty. Lucky lucky charlie boy.

not really, looking at the replay it was shoulder height.

getting pretty annoyed with the French play acting though.

Yeah spot on, he even did the little roll on the floor to milk it.

scrum not going to well, Stevens struggling.

Oh god, like Quins the other day another English team are getting buried.

I worry ths our prem is just too weak, nobody is good enough at the mo.

trebellbobaggins wrote:Oh god, like Quins the other day another English team are getting buried.

I worry ths our prem is just too weak, nobody is good enough at the mo.

which is the same after every world cup....

The French commentators just call Farrell a zombie

ha, zombie look or not, Farrell is a damn fine kicker.

he does look like one though Billy! it's the weird sideways eye roll thing he does before he takes a kick!

wonder how long till haines starts to hold on to people after rucks. let's be honest, it's bound to happen!!

They zoomed right in on his eyes just for that reason dreamer, rather comical moment.

did farrell just get away with a sneaky punch?

Clermont are really targetting Farrell for some off the ball stuff, anyone else notice this?

trebellbobaggins wrote:Oh god, like Quins the other day another English team are getting buried.

I worry ths our prem is just too weak, nobody is good enough at the mo.

Carefull. I said that a week ago and was pilloried on here