Why not have some Welsh bias for the Lions tour??

First topic message reminder :

I think it's about time we had some fairness in the British (AND IRISH) Lions after recent calamities.

Wales were clearly the best (by a country mile) in 2005 and Clive Woodward screwed us over big time. He took a party of 934 and screwed over anyone Welsh. He also left the 2 biggest stars in world rugby at the time (Henson and Williams) out of the starting 22 for the first test against NZ.

Woodward and that tour were a complete joke a disgrace to rugby.

If the Lions were picked today it would basically be:

The Wales team
Sexton or Farrell
One or two massive Scottish forwards (faletau on bench)
Tommy Bowe to start with Cuthbert on the bench

Obviously the Lions is in 2013 so I'm sure a few Welsh players will be out of form in a years time and a few more English Irish and Scottish players can stamp a claim for the tour.

If Wales win the Six Nations again in 2013 the don't be surprised to see a tour party dominated by Welsh as they will clearly deserve it.

leinsterbaby wrote:

belovedfrosties wrote:I'm a bit confused as to the Keith Earls love in going on here, when has he played well at 13 for Ireland? More often than not he looks exactly what he is, a back 3 player playing at 13. How people can rate him over Tuilagi is beyond me.

Also for the person who was saying if we just wanted a bosher use Roberts as he is better and scores tries then implied that Tuilagi doesn't. Have you see his stats? Its something like 4/5 tries from 10ish caps, which is a very good strike rate for a centre. If you want a bosher wouldn't you also go for the more powerful, faster version of the 2? ie. tuilagi?

Ok having got all that off my chest the Lions centres will be interesting. BOD is making everyones list on reputation, I honestly think he will be left behind by Gats (I am pleased with his selection of manager, I don't think there will be much bias he seems very tough but fair).

Pity he said that of all teams his team dislike the Irish team the most plus he left Ireland on bad terms with the IRFU. Motive enough to be biased against Irish players?

Not really Gatland has a unique brand of honesty, where he can say one thing and do the other whilst still banging on about how honest he and the people he surrounds himself are.

If there is an Irish player that is better than a Welsh player he will be selected no arguement, as for Gatland leading a successful Lions tour is probably more important for his long term career plan (the kiwi job) than anything else.

"Pity he said that of all teams his team dislike the Irish team the most plus he left Ireland on bad terms with the IRFU. Motive enough to be biased against Irish players?"

Don't think Gatland's leaving as Irish coach has anything to do with the current Irish players anyway you can leave employers with bad blood but it doesn't mean you'll have a problem with the employees left behind usually the opposite .

I think Gatland distanced himself from that "dislike" comment stating that he meant that the Welsh players wanted to beat Ireland the most because they play them all the time and no doubt also because their record against them internationally at that time was not very good .I agree that it was a pity he said it though .Still I'd rather have his sometimes foot in the mouth approach than an Alaister Cambell spin campaign.

Who is going to be lions captain? Warburton an Robshaw are quite young and inexperienced as captains though both have been quite successful as captains. Ross Ford is around 28 and will probably be selected to tour but would he make a good Lions captain? He may not even start so don't think it will be him. Brian ODriscoll and Paul OConnell are decent captains but they have probably had their turns already. Looks like it may be SW.

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment maybe the Lions should be dominated by Irish players.

Week in,week out in the HC and Rabo the Irish players prove themselves to be as good if not better than the best Europe can offer.The naysers will point to the fact that the provinces have some foreign players in key positions helping them out but I think that only further reinforces my point.With the best that Scotland,England and Wales has to offer slotting in to the areas Ireland are weak (notably TH,scrumhalf and 12)then the Lions could replicate the success of the provinces.

Any takers????

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Just to play devil's advocate for a moment maybe the Lions should be dominated by Irish players.

Week in,week out in the HC and Rabo the Irish players prove themselves to be as good if not better than the best Europe can offer.The naysers will point to the fact that the provinces have some foreign players in key positions helping them out but I think that only further reinforces my point.With the best that Scotland,England and Wales has to offer slotting in to the areas Ireland are weak (notably TH,scrumhalf and 12)then the Lions could replicate the success of the provinces.

Any takers????

Makes sense

You do know that the Ospreys beat every Irish region bar Ulster home and away this season...!

That said I think a lot of people are giving Ireland undue stick, they are a good team despite the last match of the Six Nations.

Shows what a good player Mike Ross is if anything.

Whilst I am not a fan of bias I am equally,if not more so,totally opposed to PC/Quotaism.
I all too vividly remember Mike Cambell-Lamberton's selection back in the day.It was Scotland's turn.
We need to be professional and unswavering in selection.What is best is what is best.
I would hate to have a "token" Welsh player if we were pants at the time.
The Lions need to go out to win and not to keep everyone happy.

The coaches seem to do a lot more research than a few years back. Selection for the last tour was a good reflection of the best players, with a few youth calls included.

who cares if the lions win or loose- blimey- its a make shift team- win and we should have , loose and its sad!! we should be sending out the best youth from all 4 nations only and make sure all are represented, and use it to actually benefit all the nations

Rubbish!
The Lions is a representative team of the best that we can put out from the home unions.Tokenism devalues this ethos.

Its more about the crack, having representatives from all unions means that more will enjoy and more will care. enjoy the lions for what it is- us 4 coming together- win or loose isnt that important. ethos my harris lad!

mystiroakey wrote:Its more about the crack, having representatives from all unions means that more will enjoy and more will care. enjoy the lions for what it is- us 4 coming together- win or loose isnt that important. ethos my harris lad!

I suggest hiring the videos of the Lions tours and drinking in the importance of the Lions ethos since their inception, speak to any Scot Irish, English,Welsh player or fan who has gone on tour and ask them was it all about the crack.

Any player who represents the Lions wants to win 100%, any fan wants to win 100%, the crack should be there material of win or lose

off course rhe players and fans want to win, however ask every single one of them fans and plyers if they would rather there own team win the next 6n's or world cup or SH tour over the lions series- you will get one answer!!

But that Answer is not the Question you posed

The question is would most fans want the Lions in the format it is

You'll get one answer
(with the odd exception or two i.e. play it as a youth tournament etc etc)

Don't understand the Lions concept. How come Ireland are involved but France and Italy aren't?

Why do England, by far the biggest top-tier rugby nation, have to join forces with other countries - and how is that fair?

I can see the attraction of a 6N Dream Team, or maybe a Celtic Lions team (at least there's a common theme) - but in it's current format it just seems like a corporate thing to sell 'behind the scenes' DVDs and holidays for old-school fans.

Combined rugby union sides from the then United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland toured in the Southern Hemisphere from 1888 onwards. The first tour took place as a commercial venture, made without official backing, but the six subsequent visits that took place before the 1910 South Africa tour, the first representative of the four Home Unions, enjoyed a growing degree of support from the authorities.
In 1949 the Four Home Unions combined formally to create a Tours Committee and for the first time, every player of the 1950 Lions squad was an international before the New Zealand series.

wickedwasp wrote:Combined rugby union sides from the then United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland toured in the Southern Hemisphere from 1888 onwards. The first tour took place as a commercial venture, made without official backing, but the six subsequent visits that took place before the 1910 South Africa tour, the first representative of the four Home Unions, enjoyed a growing degree of support from the authorities.
In 1949 the Four Home Unions combined formally to create a Tours Committee and for the first time, every player of the 1950 Lions squad was an international before the New Zealand series.

So basically it has evolved as required and all this talk of not messing with tradition is actually... er... against the traditional ethos of the the Lions.

I like the idea mooted above of maybe restricting the selection of the team to say under 26 year olds. It could really benefit some of those young guys in stepping up and taking responsibility. Players could still make a couple of tours without a logjam of elder statesmen in front of them.

Yep - it's the French and Italians that seem to be missing out on the jolly here.

"Yes, of course we're glad to have you in the Six Nations...

What's that...?

Lions Tour...?

Oh no, no, old boy, that's only for us Brits. And the Irish, we felt obligated to ask them along. You continental chaps wouldn't enjoy it though - all that hotel food and instant coffee..."

Will Mike Philips be picked if he is playing 2nd division rugby next year. This looks likely to be the case as Bayonne are odds on to be relegated.

Well if they do then i doubt that he will stay.

eirebilly wrote:Well if they do then i doubt that he will stay.

[code]

Aparently he recently confirmed to the French press that he will stay regardless.