Why not have some Welsh bias for the Lions tour??

I think it's about time we had some fairness in the British (AND IRISH) Lions after recent calamities.

Wales were clearly the best (by a country mile) in 2005 and Clive Woodward screwed us over big time. He took a party of 934 and screwed over anyone Welsh. He also left the 2 biggest stars in world rugby at the time (Henson and Williams) out of the starting 22 for the first test against NZ.

Woodward and that tour were a complete joke a disgrace to rugby.

If the Lions were picked today it would basically be:

The Wales team
Sexton or Farrell
One or two massive Scottish forwards (faletau on bench)
Tommy Bowe to start with Cuthbert on the bench

Obviously the Lions is in 2013 so I'm sure a few Welsh players will be out of form in a years time and a few more English Irish and Scottish players can stamp a claim for the tour.

If Wales win the Six Nations again in 2013 the don't be surprised to see a tour party dominated by Welsh as they will clearly deserve it.

3Grandslams..... I fear for where this thread will end

Impossible Standards wrote:3Grandslams..... I fear for where this thread will end

Hopefully it will never get going.

You'd expect a good chunk of the starting team to be Welsh but if there's a squad of 40ish I'd say under half will be Welsh. Wales won the 6N but their players individually speaking are not miles ahead of the competition so it won't be all out domination I'm afraid.

If the Lions were picked today it would basically be:

The Wales team
Sexton or Farrell
One or two massive Scottish forwards (faletau on bench)
Tommy Bowe to start with Cuthbert on the bench

Sexton yes, Farrell no. Davies likely to be pushed to 12 to allow one of BOD or Manu at 13. Full back is up in air as it will depend on what the team tactics are. The Welsh second row is frankly underwhelming so that would go and I'd expect at least one addition maybe two to the backrow, purely because of the options available.

Well I don't really care what you guys think.

Wales were treated unfairly in 2005 and Karma works funny ways. It's just nice to see that Wales are the best in Europe anyway at the moment so if the team is dominated by Welsh you won't be able to moan and it won't be a surprise.

Nice post....

3rdGrandslamCame wrote:Well I don't really care what you guys think.

Wales were treated unfairly in 2005 and Karma works funny ways. It's just nice to see that Wales are the best in Europe anyway at the moment so if the team is dominated by Welsh you won't be able to moan and it won't be a surprise.

Any fish to go with that giant chip?

Biased towards Wales would be as unacceptable as the bias, in 2005, towards England.

Two wrongs dont make a right.

Infact if that was to occur I reckon it would be the end of the Lions

I thought Halfpenny was diabolical in the air (Wales didn't win a single ball in the air v France) I still prefer him on the wing.

If I'm honest I would pick this team right now

15. Kearney
14. North
13. Tuilagi
12. JD2
11. Bowe
10. Sexton
9. Phillips
8. Denton
7. Warburton
6. Lydiate
5. AWJ
4. Gray
3. Jones
2. Hartley
1. Jenkins

16. ?
17. ?
18. ?
19. ?
20. ?
21. ?
22. ?

3rdGrandslamCame wrote:I thought Halfpenny was diabolical in the air (Wales didn't win a single ball in the air v France) I still prefer him on the wing.

If I'm honest I would pick this team right now

15. Kearney
14. North
13. Tuilagi
12. JD2
11. Bowe
10. Sexton
9. Phillips
8. Denton
7. Warburton
6. Lydiate
5. AWJ
4. Gray
3. Jones
2. Hartley
1. Jenkins

16. ?
17. ?
18. ?
19. ?
20. ?
21. ?
22. ?

Hartley, you must be avin a giraffe mate. Dylan (stand up) Hartley is not even the best in England never mind Britain and Ireland, that position will be filled with either Matthew Rees or Rory Best.

3rdGrandslamCame wrote:Well I don't really care what you guys think.

Wales were treated unfairly in 2005 and Karma works funny ways. It's just nice to see that Wales are the best in Europe anyway at the moment so if the team is dominated by Welsh you won't be able to moan and it won't be a surprise.

Not according to IRB rankings they aren't. They've had a good 6N but as is widely accepted, the weakest for a good while. As you've said, the Lions tour isn't for over a year, so why say Wales are the best right now, and not be suprised by a Welsh dominated squad when you can't possibly know that will be the case next year. I don't think we'll really know where this Welsh team is until after the Summer tests. They were pushed very close this year in terms of 6N victories and in my opinion still have to prove that they're the real deal.

3rdGrandslamCame wrote:I thought Halfpenny was diabolical in the air (Wales didn't win a single ball in the air v France) I still prefer him on the wing.

If I'm honest I would pick this team right now

15. Kearney
14. North
13. Tuilagi
12. JD2
11. Bowe
10. Sexton
9. Phillips
8. Denton
7. Warburton
6. Lydiate
5. AWJ
4. Gray
3. Jones
2. Hartley
1. Jenkins

16. ?
17. ?
18. ?
19. ?
20. ?
21. ?
22. ?

Have we exhausted your knowledge of rugby with 15 players? Oh well, not too bad!

Very generous of you to let one or two from other nations join the Welsh squad on tour as the B&I Lions - thanks

LordDowlais wrote:

3rdGrandslamCame wrote:I thought Halfpenny was diabolical in the air (Wales didn't win a single ball in the air v France) I still prefer him on the wing.

If I'm honest I would pick this team right now

15. Kearney
14. North
13. Tuilagi
12. JD2
11. Bowe
10. Sexton
9. Phillips
8. Denton
7. Warburton
6. Lydiate
5. AWJ
4. Gray
3. Jones
2. Hartley
1. Jenkins

16. ?
17. ?
18. ?
19. ?
20. ?
21. ?
22. ?

Hartley, you must be avin a giraffe mate. Dylan (stand up) Hartley is not even the best in England never mind Britain and Ireland, that position will be filled with either Matthew Rees or Isac Boss.

So who is then?

Hartley is a very good hooker, abrasive and mobile. He's certainly the equal of any other 6N hooker with the possible exception of Cervat. His poor disciplinary record lets him down however, so I would not be suprised to see him miss out - but, as i've said in a previous posting, speculation is a waste of time considering that the tour is over a year away.

Equo Troiano wrote:

3rdGrandslamCame wrote:Well I don't really care what you guys think.

Wales were treated unfairly in 2005 and Karma works funny ways. It's just nice to see that Wales are the best in Europe anyway at the moment so if the team is dominated by Welsh you won't be able to moan and it won't be a surprise.

Not according to IRB rankings they aren't. They've had a good 6N but as is widely accepted, the weakest for a good while. As you've said, the Lions tour isn't for over a year, so why say Wales are the best right now, and not be suprised by a Welsh dominated squad when you can't possibly know that will be the case next year. I don't think we'll really know where this Welsh team is until after the Summer tests. They were pushed very close this year in terms of 6N victories and in my opinion still have to prove that they're the real deal.

However we are currently Champions of Europe, we have beaten Ireland the last three times out, Scotland the last 4 times, England the last two times and the French the last time out So yes we need to improve our record against the SH. Nice try on the devalued six nations blag though, even if it smacks of desperation.

Who is shoe in for the team ?? - I can only think of 1 player

North

Everyone else is debatable

Don't feed the WUMs

Equo Troiano wrote:
So who is then?

Hartley is a very good hooker, abrasive and mobile. He's certainly the equal of any other 6N hooker with the possible exception of Cervat. His poor disciplinary record lets him down however, so I would not be suprised to see him miss out - but, as i've said in a previous posting, speculation is a waste of time considering that the tour is over a year away.

Well, Ross Ford for one, Rory Best for two. I'll stop there for now

geoff998rugby wrote:Who is shoe in for the team ?? - I can only think of 1 player

North

Everyone else is debatable

You really think Richie Gray is debatable, geoff?

3rdGrandSlam

Having loads of Welsh players as they are playing well is fine.

Having loads of Welsh players due to bias is disgraceful.

I think Gatland will make the right calls. He knows what his Welsh players offer and the guys doing well will get the nod. In other positions he will look elsewhere.

I am not worried about bias.

I don't mind the occasional WUM if they are amusing and/or thought provoking but this is neither.

Poor in every respect.

Actually Yes.

I know Gray is an exceptional talent but I'll give you two areas where he is weak.

He fades badly in matches - usually has to be taken off.
He is not that good scrummager - watch him - he doesn't transfer his strength into power. He was part of the reason the Scottish scrum was weak in some matches.

He would make my team but POC, Ryan and the Welsh boys make in debatable in my view.

TycroesOsprey wrote:

Equo Troiano wrote:

3rdGrandslamCame wrote:Well I don't really care what you guys think.

Wales were treated unfairly in 2005 and Karma works funny ways. It's just nice to see that Wales are the best in Europe anyway at the moment so if the team is dominated by Welsh you won't be able to moan and it won't be a surprise.

Not according to IRB rankings they aren't. They've had a good 6N but as is widely accepted, the weakest for a good while. As you've said, the Lions tour isn't for over a year, so why say Wales are the best right now, and not be suprised by a Welsh dominated squad when you can't possibly know that will be the case next year. I don't think we'll really know where this Welsh team is until after the Summer tests. They were pushed very close this year in terms of 6N victories and in my opinion still have to prove that they're the real deal.

However we are currently Champions of Europe, we have beaten Ireland the last three times out, Scotland the last 4 times, England the last two times and the French the last time out So yes we need to improve our record against the SH. Nice try on the devalued six nations blag though, even if it smacks of desperation.

Are you sure?

I dsidn't say they weren't European champions did I numpty boy? I said they were below England in the rankings (which they are - because England have proved that they can actually beat contemporary SH teams). Were pushed close in the 6N (which they were) and that we'll know where they are really when they've had a SH tour (which they have yet to do).

Many pundits have alluded to the fact that although Wales have done well to win another GS, it was the weakest in terms of quality for a good while, and I tend to agree, it has nothing to do with desperation. In fact, i'm feeling rather positive, considering England only met in the car park 10 weeks ago, I'd say that it was THEY who were the team of the tournament.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Equo Troiano wrote:
So who is then?

Hartley is a very good hooker, abrasive and mobile. He's certainly the equal of any other 6N hooker with the possible exception of Cervat. His poor disciplinary record lets him down however, so I would not be suprised to see him miss out - but, as i've said in a previous posting, speculation is a waste of time considering that the tour is over a year away.

Well, Ross Ford for one, Rory Best for two. I'll stop there for now

Now that's comedy, considering the exam question was who's better in ENGLAND.

Equo Troiano wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

3rdGrandslamCame wrote:I thought Halfpenny was diabolical in the air (Wales didn't win a single ball in the air v France) I still prefer him on the wing.

If I'm honest I would pick this team right now

15. Kearney
14. North
13. Tuilagi
12. JD2
11. Bowe
10. Sexton
9. Phillips
8. Denton
7. Warburton
6. Lydiate
5. AWJ
4. Gray
3. Jones
2. Hartley
1. Jenkins

16. ?
17. ?
18. ?
19. ?
20. ?
21. ?
22. ?

Hartley, you must be avin a giraffe mate. Dylan (stand up) Hartley is not even the best in England never mind Britain and Ireland, that position will be filled with either Matthew Rees or Isac Boss.

So who is then?

Hartley is a very good hooker, abrasive and mobile. He's certainly the equal of any other 6N hooker with the possible exception of Cervat. His poor disciplinary record lets him down however, so I would not be suprised to see him miss out - but, as i've said in a previous posting, speculation is a waste of time considering that the tour is over a year away.

Lee Mears is better than Hartley

Hartley would even make the plane for me - Best, Rees, Ford.
Best work at the breakdown is outstanding and he is like an extra backrower.

Equo you rate Hartley above them ... that not comedy thats a combination of tragedy, farce and delusion.

Mind you in a few days time he might having a summer off this year.
He better get used to it as he will be doing the same next year.

LordDowlais wrote:

Equo Troiano wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

3rdGrandslamCame wrote:I thought Halfpenny was diabolical in the air (Wales didn't win a single ball in the air v France) I still prefer him on the wing.

If I'm honest I would pick this team right now

15. Kearney
14. North
13. Tuilagi
12. JD2
11. Bowe
10. Sexton
9. Phillips
8. Denton
7. Warburton
6. Lydiate
5. AWJ
4. Gray
3. Jones
2. Hartley
1. Jenkins

16. ?
17. ?
18. ?
19. ?
20. ?
21. ?
22. ?

Hartley, you must be avin a giraffe mate. Dylan (stand up) Hartley is not even the best in England never mind Britain and Ireland, that position will be filled with either Matthew Rees or Isac Boss.

So who is then?

Hartley is a very good hooker, abrasive and mobile. He's certainly the equal of any other 6N hooker with the possible exception of Cervat. His poor disciplinary record lets him down however, so I would not be suprised to see him miss out - but, as i've said in a previous posting, speculation is a waste of time considering that the tour is over a year away.

Lee Mears is better than Hartley

Mears is pretty handy, and has shown some nice work in open play - but better than Hartley? I'd say that is debateable. Hartley is rightly the number one choice for England.

offload wrote:

Impossible Standards wrote:3Grandslams..... I fear for where this thread will end

Hopefully it will never get going.

Hope abandoned me

geoff998rugby wrote:

Equo you rate Hartley above them ... that not comedy thats a combination of tragedy, farce and delusion.

I said, who is better in ENGLAND?

geoff998rugby wrote:Actually Yes.

I know Gray is an exceptional talent but I'll give you two areas where he is weak.

He fades badly in matches - usually has to be taken off.
He is not that good scrummager - watch him - he doesn't transfer his strength into power. He was part of the reason the Scottish scrum was weak in some matches.

He would make my team but POC, Ryan and the Welsh boys make in debatable in my view.

Actually, not true, he was taken off only in the Italy match during the 6Ns (no idea why btw), and similarly is not often subbed for Glasgow
The scrummaging point is one that I have heard raised recently on a couple of occasions, but it's both difficult to evidence and to contradict it - none of us can comment accurately on his transferring strength/bulk to power

Here's an amusing piece for you that states the case for his being nailed on better than I can:

Six Nations: Richie Gray, player of the tournament

CORRECTION: Telegraph Rugby would like to apologise unreservedly to readers for a serious error made in the following article: Six Nations 2012 Awards. As a broadsheet newspaper famed within the mainstream media for its usually excellent and comprehensive rugby coverage, we would specifically like to apologise to a Mr Richard Gray of Glasgow, Scotland, for his glaring omission from not only the Player of the Tournament shortlist, but the Forward of the Tournament shortlist.

The writers responsible for the mistake would like to blame a clerical error or the sub-editors who worked on the article, but unfortunately on this occasion we will have to hold our hands up and admit that we simply didn’t do enough research in constructing the aforementioned shortlist or perhaps, following a particularly exciting weekend work trip to Cardiff, we were so ‘tired and emotional’ on Monday morning that we simply forgot to include Mr Gray in the list.

Unfortunately, you will never read this apology in the Telegraph itself, but just in case Telegraph Rugby writers would like to make one, please read this as an open letter and invitation to do so. Here’s why it should be made:

Being 6 foot 10 inches and sporting a shock of blonde hair, Richie Gray is particularly noticeable on a rugby field. He’s maybe one of those players that initially stands out, but when you get down to the statistics and the nitty gritty, he’s actually not as good as everyone says (Sebastien Chabal look away now). However, as I researched my Team of the Tournament, I looked at lots of statistics from most of the top players and Richie Gray’s numbers genuinely astounded me:

Matches: 5
Tries: 1 (top 2nd row)
Passes: 18 (top 2nd row)
Carries: 40
Metres carried: 155 (top 2nd row)
Clean breaks: 3 (top 2nd row)
Offloads: 5 (joint 6th overall; top 2nd row)
Defenders beaten: 6 (joint 12th, top 2nd row)
Tackles: 43 (joint 10th overall)
Missed tackles: 0
Penalties conceded: 1
Turnovers conceded: 0
Lineouts won on own throw: 19 (2nd overall)
Lineout steals: 0
NB Stats not available for French 2nd rows

Two other second-rows – Donnacha Ryan and Pascale Pape – were included on the Telegraph’s Forward of the Tournament shortlist (alongside Dan Lydiate, David Denton, Ben Morgan and Tom Croft) so, by way of comparison and in the absence of the latter’s numbers, here are Ryan’s:
Matches: 5
Tries: 0
Passes: 3
Carries: 18
Metres carried: 20
Clean breaks: 0
Offloads: 0
Defenders beaten: 1
Tackles: 33
Missed tackles: 1
Penalties conceded: 0
Turnovers conceded: 5
Lineouts won on own throw: 7
Lineout steals: 4

Ryan is inferior to Gray in 12 of the 13 categories listed and I’d wager Pape wouldn’t match up significantly better. In short, there is objectively no justification whatsoever for including either player ahead of Gray.

The Telegraph’s runaway Player of the Tournament winner was the outstanding Dan Lydiate. Taking nothing away from the Welshman, Richie Gray (in one extra match) made the same amount of tackles while missing fewer, carried more often for far more yardage, beat more defenders, made more clean breaks and offloads and conceded fewer penalties and turnovers.

Furthermore, with regards the Player of the Tournament shortlist, it must be remembered, and considered, that the giant lock forward is exactly that – a giant lock forward – and any reasonable rugby writer or analyst should be able to see that the statistics listed above, when these factors are taken into consideration, are truly remarkable. On top of this, the fact that Gray is just 22 (second rows are widely considered to be at their peak when approaching and beyond 30) and is playing in a consistently losing side only make his performances all the more spectacular.

In everything other than the number on his back and the fact he sticks his head up Allan Jacobsen’s ample backside a few times a match, Riche Gray is an enormous back-row forward. He tackles like an great open-side, carries like a great number eight and destroys like a great blind-side. Offloading like a great centre and scoring a try like a great full-back is simply beyond your remit, Richie. Stop it.

Richie Gray is now leading the charge of a new breed of big man, helping to redefine the role of the traditional lock. He’s an athlete. He probably made more yards and tackles in this tournament than Dooley, Norster, Cronin and Lenihan made in their entire careers. Combined.

In response, the Telegraph’s seasoned scribes may argue that rugby isn’t about statistics, it’s about intangibles – things you can’t teach and that numbers can’t demonstrate. Well, on that point you would be fighting a battle that you even less chance of winning, because Richie Gray has it all – passion, pride and innate, natural rugby ability. In short, he’s is a phenomenon and not only deserves his apology but his position as Rugbyposts’ Six Nations Player of the Tournament 2012.

No weaknesses imo

Equo Troiano wrote:

TycroesOsprey wrote:

Equo Troiano wrote:

3rdGrandslamCame wrote:Well I don't really care what you guys think.

Wales were treated unfairly in 2005 and Karma works funny ways. It's just nice to see that Wales are the best in Europe anyway at the moment so if the team is dominated by Welsh you won't be able to moan and it won't be a surprise.

Not according to IRB rankings they aren't. They've had a good 6N but as is widely accepted, the weakest for a good while. As you've said, the Lions tour isn't for over a year, so why say Wales are the best right now, and not be suprised by a Welsh dominated squad when you can't possibly know that will be the case next year. I don't think we'll really know where this Welsh team is until after the Summer tests. They were pushed very close this year in terms of 6N victories and in my opinion still have to prove that they're the real deal.

However we are currently Champions of Europe, we have beaten Ireland the last three times out, Scotland the last 4 times, England the last two times and the French the last time out So yes we need to improve our record against the SH. Nice try on the devalued six nations blag though, even if it smacks of desperation.

Are you sure?

I dsidn't say they weren't European champions did I numpty boy? I said they were below England in the rankings (which they are - because England have proved that they can actually beat contemporary SH teams). Were pushed close in the 6N (which they were) and that we'll know where they are really when they've had a SH tour (which they have yet to do).

Many pundits have alluded to the fact that although Wales have done well to win another GS, it was the weakest in terms of quality for a good while, and I tend to agree, it has nothing to do with desperation. In fact, i'm feeling rather positive, considering England only met in the car park 10 weeks ago, I'd say that it was THEY who were the team of the tournament.

very sure on that Equo we have beaten England the last twice we have played. Im glad our feeling positive and I agree your team exceeded expectations with their second place. Lancaster is a good coach and should be the man the RFU turn to. However as champions of Europe with the above mentioned record against the other NH nations I think its fair to say that we are the best in Europe at the moment. As for the rankings well as long as we match whatever England do in the summer we will go above them. We play the Aussies you have the boks, I know who I would rather be playing this summer.

Equo Troiano wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Equo Troiano wrote:
So who is then?

Hartley is a very good hooker, abrasive and mobile. He's certainly the equal of any other 6N hooker with the possible exception of Cervat. His poor disciplinary record lets him down however, so I would not be suprised to see him miss out - but, as i've said in a previous posting, speculation is a waste of time considering that the tour is over a year away.

Well, Ross Ford for one, Rory Best for two. I'll stop there for now

Now that's comedy, considering the exam question was who's better in ENGLAND.

It was? I could have sworn you wrote:

Hartley is a very good hooker, abrasive and mobile. He's certainly the equal of any other 6N hooker

Perhaps you want to admit that you're wrong? Oh, hang on, fat chance

offload wrote:

offload wrote:

Impossible Standards wrote:3Grandslams..... I fear for where this thread will end

Hopefully it will never get going.

Hope abandoned me

even loose women gets attention some times, best to just let it go over your head.

Slecting mostly Welsh players doesnt mean bias. It means sleecting them because they are the players best able to play teh way Gataland wants them to.

Picking them purely because theyre Welsh ( although really half of them are english) would be bias.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Slecting mostly Welsh players doesnt mean bias. It means sleecting them because they are the players best able to play teh way Gataland wants them to.

Picking them purely because theyre Welsh ( although really half of them are english) would be bias.

At least our non Welsh players (bar one) are British though

half of them are English Peter? Really?

Lets have a foreign player comp shall we...?

I don't think the lions squad would be dominated by welshmen at the minute, but we would definately have the most players touring.

Jones, Rees, Jenkins, Evans, Warbs, Lydiate, Phillips, JD2, Roberts, Cuthbert, North, 1/2p, Hook, and Ryan Jones would all be nailed on in my view, with cases for Falatau, Davies, Preistland, and Scott williams all pushing for a case. However it is still 12 months away, and there is a summer tour, autum series and another 6N with a different head coach to go yet, thats a pretty long way!

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Equo Troiano wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Equo Troiano wrote:
So who is then?

Hartley is a very good hooker, abrasive and mobile. He's certainly the equal of any other 6N hooker with the possible exception of Cervat. His poor disciplinary record lets him down however, so I would not be suprised to see him miss out - but, as i've said in a previous posting, speculation is a waste of time considering that the tour is over a year away.

Well, Ross Ford for one, Rory Best for two. I'll stop there for now

Now that's comedy, considering the exam question was who's better in ENGLAND.

It was? I could have sworn you wrote:

Hartley is a very good hooker, abrasive and mobile. He's certainly the equal of any other 6N hooker

Perhaps you want to admit that you're wrong? Oh, hang on, fat chance

I highlighted those two names as they are clearly not English, which in response to the original question, which was who is better in England, was a rather daft answer. Wasn't it.

Hartly is a good hooker, and arguably is the equal of his 6N counterparts. But that has nothing to do with the original question in any case. Does it.

So, no, i'm not wrong. Actually. You are. You going to admit it? Fat chance.

Equo

Sorry mate you are wrong, Hartley is probably the worst hooker in the 6N competition, Swarzevski might give him a bit of a push though.

Ford, Best, Rees, Servat and Ghiraldini are all better options than Hartley IMO!

Best work at the breakdown is outstanding and he is like an extra backrower

Unfortunatly for him refs are starting to realise that he doesn't actually attempt to play the ball he just bends at his hip and then drops his body weight over the ball and lies there hoping for the best. Between him and SOB Ireland gave England some very soft penalties in the 6N. Having said that he's still better than Hartley. As are Rees and Ford just like you say.

Currently I'd go with;

Jenkins, Ford, Jones
POC, Gray
Lydiate, Morgan, Warburton (c)
Youngs, Sexton
Davies, Tuilagi
North, Foden, Bowe

Bench: Best, Cole, Parling, Croft, Phillips, Flood/Priestland, Roberts.

Equo Troiano wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Equo Troiano wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Equo Troiano wrote:
So who is then?

Hartley is a very good hooker, abrasive and mobile. He's certainly the equal of any other 6N hooker with the possible exception of Cervat. His poor disciplinary record lets him down however, so I would not be suprised to see him miss out - but, as i've said in a previous posting, speculation is a waste of time considering that the tour is over a year away.

Well, Ross Ford for one, Rory Best for two. I'll stop there for now

Now that's comedy, considering the exam question was who's better in ENGLAND.

It was? I could have sworn you wrote:

Hartley is a very good hooker, abrasive and mobile. He's certainly the equal of any other 6N hooker

Perhaps you want to admit that you're wrong? Oh, hang on, fat chance

I highlighted those two names as they are clearly not English, which in response to the original question, which was who is better in England, was a rather daft answer. Wasn't it.

Hartly is a good hooker, and arguably is the equal of his 6N counterparts. But that has nothing to do with the original question in any case. Does it.

So, no, i'm not wrong. Actually. You are. You going to admit it? Fat chance.

Hartley isnt English, Smit and Brits are better hookers than him in England.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Best work at the breakdown is outstanding and he is like an extra backrower

Unfortunatly for him refs are starting to realise that he doesn't actually attempt to play the ball he just bends at his hip and then drops his body weight over the ball and lies there hoping for the best. Between him and SOB Ireland gave England some very soft penalties in the 6N. .

Leinster and Munster do it all the time. Lets hope the refs find them out too

thebluesmancometh wrote:Equo

Sorry mate you are wrong, Hartley is probably the worst hooker in the 6N competition, Swarzevski might give him a bit of a push though.

Ford, Best, Rees, Servat and Ghiraldini are all better options than Hartley IMO!

Servat is definately better, but we'll agree to disagree on the others. Rees - probably, but its hard to argue the others are better when they all operate in packs beaten by England.

Really? Because I'd say Italy had parity and Scotland were the better pack against England!

So by your theory Parisse cannot be WC because his team struggles?

Hartley is a scrummaging weakness, and was part of the reason England struggled against Wales. Now he is getting pinged for throwing his head and arms into the air at every scrum he's a total liability.

Equo Troiano wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:Equo

Sorry mate you are wrong, Hartley is probably the worst hooker in the 6N competition, Swarzevski might give him a bit of a push though.

Ford, Best, Rees, Servat and Ghiraldini are all better options than Hartley IMO!

Servat is definately better, but we'll agree to disagree on the others. Rees - probably, but its hard to argue the others are better when they all operate in packs beaten by England.

Although England won the match, I think most folk would find it tricky to argue that the Scottish pack were beaten by the English one (in any sense except the result)? Actually, YOU wouldn't, but I'll give you some clues:

Rucks: Scotland - 122 from 127 (96.1%); England - 48 from 55 (87.3%)
Mauls: Scotland - 3 from 3 (100.0%); England - 1 from 3 (33.3%)
Scrums: Scotland - 8 won, 2 lost (80.0%); England - 6 won, 0 lost (100.0%)
Lineouts: Scotland - 15 won, 1 lost (93.8%); 9 won, 2 lost (81.8%)

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Equo Troiano wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Equo Troiano wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Equo Troiano wrote:
So who is then?

Hartley is a very good hooker, abrasive and mobile. He's certainly the equal of any other 6N hooker with the possible exception of Cervat. His poor disciplinary record lets him down however, so I would not be suprised to see him miss out - but, as i've said in a previous posting, speculation is a waste of time considering that the tour is over a year away.

Well, Ross Ford for one, Rory Best for two. I'll stop there for now

Now that's comedy, considering the exam question was who's better in ENGLAND.

It was? I could have sworn you wrote:

Hartley is a very good hooker, abrasive and mobile. He's certainly the equal of any other 6N hooker

Perhaps you want to admit that you're wrong? Oh, hang on, fat chance

I highlighted those two names as they are clearly not English, which in response to the original question, which was who is better in England, was a rather daft answer. Wasn't it.

Hartly is a good hooker, and arguably is the equal of his 6N counterparts. But that has nothing to do with the original question in any case. Does it.

So, no, i'm not wrong. Actually. You are. You going to admit it? Fat chance.

Hartley isnt English, Smit and Brits are better hookers than him in England.

So what if he isn't English, he's EQ which is more than Smit and Brits are, you don't have to be that bright to understand that what I meant was that Hartley might not be the best hooker in England, but if he wasn't, who was a better EQ hooker that can replace him. So far, only one other poster has worked it out and posted a sensible answer.

If your considering Mears a sensible answer you have real problems!!!

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Currently I'd go with;

Jenkins, Ford, Jones
POC, Gray
Lydiate, Morgan, Warburton (c)
Youngs, Sexton
Davies, Tuilagi
North, Foden, Bowe

Bench: Best, Cole, Parling, Croft, Phillips, Flood/Priestland, Roberts.

Youngs has a lot to prove over the next year, it simply has to be Phillips at SH at the moment as the rest have been poor, that says a lot, Phillips isnt great(unless he has one of those days) but he wont let you down and his defense is head and shoulders above the rest (bar Murray but hes just a Phillips mk2 for me).

Sam, I quite like that team, but I'd have Kearney over Foden, and Bowe/Cuthbert would be very close for me at the moment...... I'd also have Ian Evans above Parling but again theres nothing really in it and those picks are very subjective and I dont think I'd mind either way on anyway of them!

anyone know whether the the Lions are using 22 or 23 man squads?

thebluesmancometh wrote:If your considering Mears a sensible answer you have real problems!!!

It was the only sensible answer in that he is in fact EQ playing in England. He might not be better, or the best, but at least whomever wrote Mears (I can't be bothered to check now) had got the rather simple gist of the question. Which is more than others had done.

Also, I cannot see why people are picking Tuilagi in front of players like Roberts, BOD, John Davies, Keith Earls, I know the English posters on here like to wax lyrical about him, but I have not seen any evidence that he is better than the player's mentioned above. He is just a crash ball merchant who cannot for the life of himself pass to anyone on his shoulder. If you want to pick a crash ball merchant then surely Jamie Roberts is your man, at least he can score a try or two. Tuilagi is good at what he does, and that is hit people at pace, I have yet to see him run into space and create opportunities for his team mates. Also I do not think he has the pace of other centers who could be in contention, he would be a good bench option though.

In that case I'm a sensible option, I havn't been tied to Wales, I have been in England for more than 3 years, and I am arguably better than Mears, and IMO can scrummage better than Hartley. Although I am 6'5 and I have never played hook before

Lord

Don't get me started on Tuilagi, most importantly you will set a few posters off here for not claiming he is a rugby god!