Team of the Six Nations - Planet Rugby

by Artful_Dodger Mon 19 Mar 2012, 5:50 pm

First topic message reminder :

Planet Rugby have put forward their team of the Six Nations.

15 Rob Kearney (Ireland) - Strong efforts from Leigh Halfpenny, Stuart Hogg and Ben Foden were all outdone by Kearney, who was solid under the high ball and also threw in fine running from the back to prove he has returned to his best form. That defeat to England offered few chances to show what he is capable of but we had already seen enough.

14 Alex Cuthbert (Wales) - It was tough to leave out the championship's top try-scorer, Tommy Bowe, but how could we overlook Cuthbert? Only taking up the game at sixteen years of age and made his RaboDirect PRO12 debut for Cardiff Blues back in September 2011, Cuthbert has taken to Test rugby like a duck to water and deserved Saturday's try.

13 Jonathan Davies (Wales) - The 23-year-old is set for a long future in the Welsh jersey and will soon push hard for a British and Irish Lions starting spot. He scored two tries against Ireland in round one and his carrying ability was consistently backed up by solid defence, highlighted by his winning of a relieving penalty on his own line against France.

12 Wesley Fofana (France) - Why the stand-out inside centre was uprooted from number twelve and shifted to wing for the final weekend had us all scratching our heads. But like Kearney, his gold star was earned earlier on as he scored four in four games and was a classy runner for les Bleus. A mention for bustling duo Brad Barritt and Jamie Roberts.

11 George North (Wales) - His bounce-off of Ireland's Fergus McFadden will be a lasting memory of Six Nations 2012. He and Cuthbert were workhorses coming off their wings.

10 Owen Farrell (England) - Started out at centre but injury to early-championship try-scorer Charlie Hodgson meant Farrell was thrust into the ten shirt. That is where his future lies with England as he demonstrated poise and solidity throughout. He pips Rhys Priestland.

9 Mike Phillips (Wales) - Our toughest selection due to so few scrum-halves putting their hand up. While he sometimes attempts to take on the opposition all by himself, Phillips is one of only a small percentage of nines capable of mixing it physically with back-rows. Solid.

8 Sergio Parisse (Italy) - From difficulty finding an option, we come to a jersey that had three names pushing hard to occupy. David Denton announced himself to the rugby world this Six Nations while Ben Morgan has been a real coup for England since choosing white over red before the 2012 championship. However, one man who continuously goes above and beyond what is expected of him is Parisse. His statistics in each game this year were excellent as he carried, tackled, took line-outs and won turnovers for his fifth-placed side.

7 Chris Robshaw (England) - It was hard to leave out Ross Rennie, who was great for Scotland during the opening rounds, while Sam Warburton and Justin Tipuric were also good when on the field. Robshaw though gets in for his work rate and how he has led a new-look team. Thierry Dusautoir was also as robust as ever in jersey six (openside).

6 Dan Lydiate (Wales) - The masses have spoken. Lydiate was voted by our readers as the top player in the Six Nations. Case closed. Mention for Tom Croft after that effort in Paris.

5 Ian Evans (Wales) - Evans was the surprise package for the Grand Slam champions as he stepped up well in place of Luke Charteris. The Osprey played every minute of the Six Nations and put in enough hard yards to see off Geoff Parling and Yohann Maestri.

4 Richie Gray (Scotland) - Superb. Gray was Andy Robinson's best player. Lions starter.

3 Adam Jones (Wales) - We had a call for Nicolas Mas and were also torn over whether Dan Cole had done enough to oust a certain Welshman. But Jones is in and looks back in top physical condition, joining Gethin Jenkins and Ryan Jones in having won three Slams.

2 Rory Best (Ireland) - Two tries for Ireland's most-capped hooker, who enjoyed a solid season that saw him become captain after injuries to Brian O'Driscoll and Paul O'Connell.

1 Gethin Jenkins (Wales) - What a workhorse Jenkins is. He was injured for the first game but upon his return showed just how much he offers. Toulon have signed something special as his efforts have proved he is now the number one number one in Europe.

8 Welsh
2 English
2 Irish
1 French
1 Italian
1 Scottish

Thoughts? I would have Dan Cole at 3 and Jamie Roberts at 12 but other than that its pretty good.

by nathan Mon 19 Mar 2012, 10:26 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Having an opinion isn't wumming.

Tuilagi is a far superior player than JD although JD had a better 6N agreed.

Couldn't disagree with you more.

How many assists did tuilagi make? How many tackles resulted in turnovers? I don't remember Tuilagi passing to any of the England back three either...!

Not many mate. Jon Davies is a superb outside centre, pace guile, great kicking game, magnificent defence. He was a huge part of Wales winning this Grandslam.

This is a good selection, not sure why Robshaw was picked above favaro, Rennie or Bonnaire, let alone players who only played a few games but were very very good like Warburton and Ruperic.

I rated Parlings contribution to england. He was better than Ian Evans in my opinion and would be a good pick at lock.

It's a little unfair to bring stat's out when Tuilagi has just come back from injury and only played 3 games.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 19 Mar 2012, 10:47 pm

Maest its amazing isnt it how the majority of the england side are complete crap and not worthy to lace the boots of the welsh yet they managed to get within a gnats whisker of a share of the championship.
Just goes to show how lucky they are I guess.

But yeah I really cant see how Robshaws in there other than sympathy vote.

by maestegmafia Mon 19 Mar 2012, 10:57 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Maest its amazing isnt it how the majority of the england side are complete crap and not worthy to lace the boots of the welsh yet they managed to get within a gnats whisker of a share of the championship.
Just goes to show how lucky they are I guess.

But yeah I really cant see how Robshaws in there other than sympathy vote.

Pete,

England got a great result this year. I was surprised to see how they improved as a team. And teamwork is a huge plus given their fractured end to last season. But individually the players are not as outstanding as they are as a team.

Time will see how they progress I just hope that this championships many successes for England don't mask the key issues they have at their core.

by BigTrevsbigmac Mon 19 Mar 2012, 11:01 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:I'd go something like:

Halfpenny
Cuthbert
Davies
Barritt (Fofanna mixed the good and bad stuff, though is very talented)
Bowe
Farrell
Parra (why he doesn't start every game is beyond me)
Parisse
Rennie
Lydiate
Evans
Gray
Cole (England's most important player IMO)
Best
Jenkins

Close to my selection but Bowe for Cuthbert & Parling for Evans.
Nothing to choose between Corbs & Jenkins.

by BigTrevsbigmac Mon 19 Mar 2012, 11:03 pm

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:I'd go something like:

Halfpenny
Cuthbert
Davies
Barritt (Fofanna mixed the good and bad stuff, though is very talented)
Bowe
Farrell
Parra (why he doesn't start every game is beyond me)
Parisse
Rennie
Lydiate
Evans
Gray
Cole (England's most important player IMO)
Best
Jenkins

Close to my selection but North for Cuthbert & Parling for Evans.
Nothing to choose between Corbs & Jenkins.

by killer938 Tue 20 Mar 2012, 10:50 am

I am glad to see Parling getting his dues from some people, I was a major advocate for him getting called up ahead of Palmer and now people can see why. He is now my shout for an outside Lions spot as long as he continues to perform like he has done.

by maestegmafia Wed 21 Mar 2012, 8:07 am

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:I'd go something like:

Halfpenny
Cuthbert
Davies
Barritt (Fofanna mixed the good and bad stuff, though is very talented)
Bowe
Farrell
Parra (why he doesn't start every game is beyond me)
Parisse
Rennie
Lydiate
Evans
Gray
Cole (England's most important player IMO)
Best
Jenkins

Close to my selection but Bowe for Cuthbert & Parling for Evans.
Nothing to choose between Corbs & Jenkins.

Parling for Evans is a good shout but not matter how much you fancy him you cant have Tommy Bowe on both wings at the same time. It doesn't work like that.

by maestegmafia Wed 21 Mar 2012, 8:09 am

killer938 wrote:I am glad to see Parling getting his dues from some people, I was a major advocate for him getting called up ahead of Palmer and now people can see why. He is now my shout for an outside Lions spot as long as he continues to perform like he has done.

Good Player, put in loads of work and did it well. There was an emergence of some very good locks in all the sides this year, Maestri, Parling, Gray, Ryan, and to se Ian Evans playing so well for Wales after all his injury issues is superb too.

by maestegmafia Wed 21 Mar 2012, 8:45 am

From RTE

1. Gethin Jenkins: A superior athlete, his speed is a major asset to the Welsh defence. Alex Corbisiero was quiet until the final game, in which Cian Healy, who had issues with carrying and giving up penalties through the tournament, was demolished by Dan Cole. Lions pick: Jenkins looks sure be the Test starter

2. Rory Best: The hardest selection as most of the hookers were very poor. Best's two tries help him get the nod in a non-vintage year in which France under-used William Servat and Wales mixed up their selection. Lions pick: A very tricky selection, with Gatland set to be head coach, Matthew Rees could beat Best in the battle for the place, but it may be ripe for a bolter like Richardt Strauss to mount a charge.

3. Adam Jones: A mountain of a man who has now won three Grand Slams in three different teams - Wales would probably not have won any without him. Mike Ross had a solid tournament until his injury against England, no-one battled harder than France's David Attoub in the final match while Martin Castrogiovanni was Italy’s heart again. Lions pick: Adam Jones is sure to get the pick if he stays relatively trim and injury free, though Ross will travel as a very useful back-up.

4. Richie Gray: An eye-catching lock-forward who showed a combination of skill, power and stamina through Scotland’s campaign get him picked just ahead of Yoann Maestri, though the Frenchman is a formidable opponent when roused. Lions pick: Richie Gray could end up being another one of those talismans from smaller nations who struggle on the Lions tour, but his sheer size should help him earn a place. Donnacha Ryan did enough to suggest he could get involved in the battle for this jersey too.

5. Geoff Parling: The Wales locks were not a standout feature of their campaign, and while Paul O’Connell was heroic for Ireland in his three games he made more errors than usual, not least that missed tackle against Wales. Parling deserves a mention for the way he grabbed his chance and combined a huge work-rate with excellent lineout displays. Lions pick: Paul O’Connell looks capable of keeping going for a while yet and the effect of his absence for Ireland's final two games only emphasised his quality.

6. Dan Lydiate: Tom Croft’s sheer speed stood out while Stephen Ferris was consistently extraordinary for Ireland. But Wales' massive appetite, superb tackle technique and linespeed were key to their ability to make life miserable for half-backs and it was led by their number six. Lions pick: Dan Lydiate, but with Ferris at number eight.

7. Sam Warburton: Thierry Dusautoir deserves a mention but like France, he only played his trademark hard hitting rugby in snatches. Admittedly, Warburton missed three games in total but his "Man of the Match" outing against England was absurdly good and swung this Championship for Wales. Lions pick: Sam Warburton, and a cracking clash with David Pocock awaits, though the young Welshman's playing style means he is a huge risk to miss the Tests through injury.

8. Sergio Parisse: Imanol Harinordoquy made a raft of errors, David Denton performed well only in one or two games, while Toby Faletau was good but not great. Jamie Heaslip only got near his best form against Wales. Ben Morgan had a stormer against France but Parisse consistently demonstrated superior skill and athletic ability even when Italy were getting hosed. Lions pick: Stephen Ferris will have to accommodated in any Lions XV and looks more adaptable than Lydiate.

9. Mike Phillips: Consistently the most difficult scrum-half to handle and his combination of slick service, speed and physical power must be the envy of the rest of the Six Nations coaches. Lions pick: Mike Phillips was brilliant in South Africa as the likes of Mike Blair were exposed and can do the same again.

10. Jonathan Sexton: Had a very good campaign in which he was the most effective running out-half in the tournament. The bravery of his defence against France also stood out. No out-half kicked the lines well, while Rhys Priestland was rarely more than a conduit - though his long passing was impressive. Lions pick: Jonathan Sexton is capable of claiming this place but must have the mental strength to see off Owen Farrell, who looks to have that quality in abundance.

11. George North: An extraordinary athlete, his offload against Ireland to put Jonathan Davies through was the best moment of skill in the Championship. Lions pick: George North, and the scary thing is he could keep getting better.

12. Jamie Roberts: Wesley Fofana showed great pace but missed too many tackles and also passed poorly. England's Brad Barritt is the other real contender, but Roberts showed up time and again for big carries, especially against Ireland and England, to give his team crucial go-forward. Lions pick: Jamie Roberts though Barrit's greater range of skills make him a real contender and Manu Tuilagi could also force his way in here somewhere.

13. Jonathan Davies: He was not given much respect at the outset of this tournament, but earned it with a series of important interventions. His combination of power and smart game-reading is one that will serve Wales well for a long time in this position. Tuilagi also showed his quality as a carrier but also had obvious skill problems with some facets of the game. Lions pick: The mouth-watering prospect of re-uniting the excellent Roberts/Brian O’Driscoll combination could prove too hard to resist.

14. Tommy Bowe: Alex Cuthbert had the look of a classic successful Gatland project and justified the faith shown in him with the try against France in the last game, but Bowe’s try-scoring feats and his brilliance in Paris earn him the pick. Lions pick: Tommy Bowe is always at his best against the top teams and looks the man to beat.

15. Rob Kearney: Sometimes frustrates with failure to create team plays in the manner of a Kurtley Beale but his performance against France was extraordinary and he was hugely impressive in the other games as well. Clement Poitrenaud's stylish brand of rugby was also enjoyable, while Leigh Halfpenny attacked every situation with relish and hit the winner against Ireland. Lions pick: Kearney is in pole position but Leigh Halfpenny is breathing down his neck and it may be decided that he offers more in attack.

by HERSH Wed 21 Mar 2012, 9:00 am

Sexton at 10?

by **Biltong** Wed 21 Mar 2012, 9:03 am

I think 10 is the most open position of the six nations. No 10 has had a stand out six nations, some had the odd good game here or there, but not consistently the best.

by eirebilly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 9:11 am

I would lean towards Sexton at 10, purely on the basis that there was not any stand out player there. He is simply the best of a bad bunch Very Happy

Waiting for an attack from Gibbo Smile

by wickedwasp Wed 21 Mar 2012, 9:41 am

Sorry guys, disagree.

Farrell should get it for an excellent debut. Can't think what Sexton did better or more than Farrell.

by eirebilly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 9:45 am

wickedwasp wrote:Sorry guys, disagree.

Farrell should get it for an excellent debut. Can't think what Sexton did better or more than Farrell.

Attacked, got the backline moving as well as kicking his goals i would have felt.

Farrell, although, having a good start to his international career is still a kicking centre but he is growing into the position. He rarely ignited the English backline from what i remember.

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 21 Mar 2012, 9:47 am

wickedwasp wrote:Sorry guys, disagree.

Farrell should get it for an excellent debut. Can't think what Sexton did better or more than Farrell.

+1

The only advantage Sexton has is experience and IMO that didn't count for much when Ireland were mullered at Twickenham. If Sexton had totally out classed Farrell I would be calling for Sexton, he didn't.

Farrell had a very impressive first 5 games for England IMO and would probably be my pick for 10 of the tournament.

by maestegmafia Wed 21 Mar 2012, 9:50 am

eirebilly wrote:
wickedwasp wrote:Sorry guys, disagree.

Farrell should get it for an excellent debut. Can't think what Sexton did better or more than Farrell.

Attacked, got the backline moving as well as kicking his goals i would have felt.

Farrell, although, having a good start to his international career is still a kicking centre but he is growing into the position. He rarely ignited the English backline from what i remember.

I agree, although Farrell is a great goal kicker and solid tackler he is not a very good flyhalf. Merit where it is due as England need a good goal kicker, and now probably feel they cant leave him out of the side because they are more likely to get three points with him in rather than without him.

But in Toby Flood last year England had the best of both worlds, a good goal kicker who had a solid defence and a good flyhalf.

As all round players Farrell is forth or fifth best option in the six nations, though as an effective player in hindsight, he was Englands best man, he scored all the points offered to him to the best of his ability, hardly missing a kick once.

by eirebilly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 9:53 am

I am not being harsh on Farrell as i do believe that he is a very good prospect but in my opinion he had a solid defence and accurate kicking, nothing more.

Sextons defence against France was also very good and his tactical kicking and backs movement was slightly better than Farrell.

by wickedwasp Wed 21 Mar 2012, 10:05 am

Flood at his best is very very good.

However, he's never been at his best unless we're on the front foot which worries me.

by formerly known as Sam Wed 21 Mar 2012, 10:05 am

I agree with the calls for Cole but I'm not sure on Denton. He looked good when Strockosh was there to help with the tight work allowing Denton to drift wider. When it was down to Denton to carry and make the hard yards he really looked pretty poor, I think he's a bit in the Croft mold in that you need to have a big lump in the backrow with him to help with the carrying and tackling.

by maestegmafia Wed 21 Mar 2012, 10:08 am

eirebilly wrote:I am not being harsh on Farrell as i do believe that he is a very good prospect but in my opinion he had a solid defence and accurate kicking, nothing more.

Sextons defence against France was also very good and his tactical kicking and backs movement was slightly better than Farrell.

Sexton, Trinh-Duc, Priestland and Laidlaw all got their backlines moving and their team attacking far more effectively than Burton or Farrell

by wickedwasp Wed 21 Mar 2012, 10:10 am

Maesteg

Possibly true, but they all had problems with other parts of their game bar Sexton & Farrell.

by maestegmafia Wed 21 Mar 2012, 10:15 am

wickedwasp wrote:Maesteg

Possibly true, but they all had problems with other parts of their game bar Sexton & Farrell.

Exactly its all swings and round abouts really isn't it... Over all Sexton was the best all rounder. He may not have had a great day behind a scrum giving away penalties every time they packed down, but in every other game he was the best flyhalf in the tournament by some distance, look at the fluency Ireland played with, the 14 or so try's they scored, his kicking stats were great too. England struggled with fluency, scored non of their 6 tries from phase play.

by wickedwasp Wed 21 Mar 2012, 10:18 am

Damn, I might have to concede this.

I hate it when that happens Crying or Very sad

by maestegmafia Wed 21 Mar 2012, 10:31 am

wickedwasp wrote:Damn, I might have to concede this.

I hate it when that happens

I am not sure what you mean by concede, this is just my opinion on flyhalfs, and my reasoning for the Above posted RTE team of the tournament.

by eirebilly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 10:33 am

Keep your views wicked, we will all have different opinions

by wickedwasp Wed 21 Mar 2012, 10:40 am

OK, then

I'm right & everybody else is wrong

I feel much better now

by eirebilly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 10:40 am

Dont get too excited there wicked Laugh

by ChequeredJersey Wed 21 Mar 2012, 11:19 am

thebluesmancometh wrote:ye a little HERSH. Preistland really needs to up his game if he is to keep his spot, Robshaw in my view has already lost his back to Wood.

I don't think Preistland is the best 10 in Wales, but I think he's the best 10 option for Wales.

Robshaw is necessary in this team as it stands- at the moment he is making all of the tackles for the back row so that Croft can do his running around in the loose and use his pace to get to rucks before the opposition. Why they don't just give Croft the 7 shirt and Robshaw the 6 I do not know. Robshaw is doing, admittedly probably less well, a Lydiate job with his defence, but everybody was up in arms about how undervalued Lydiate is whilst ignoring the fact that Robshaw has 50% of his back row's, including bench, tackles and has missed only 1.

Match- Robshaw-England tackle counts - Robshaw- England missed tackles
Ireland - 11- 64- 0 - 7
France- 13- 97 1- 13
Wales- 9- 116 0 - 18
Italy- 16- 106 0- 8
Scotland- 15- 164 0- 14

by ChequeredJersey Wed 21 Mar 2012, 11:20 am

Though on this basis there is no point in playing Lydiate and Robshaw in the same 15, I just think a lot of people are being harsh on Robshaw at International level on very little basis

by BlueNote Wed 21 Mar 2012, 11:54 am

"they managed to get within a gnats whisker of a share of the championship"

If that had been given as a try and the touchline conversion had been put over, Wales still had a way better overall points differential compared with England, so we'd have pipped you anyway.

The calls for Cole over Adam Jones - try reading what Corbisiero had to say after playing Adam Jones (I think it was in the London Evening Standard).

At FB, Kearney stands out, for me, even over Halfpenny, Foden and Hogg, all of whom are talented players.

9 and 10 are a worry for the Lions. I thought Phillips was pretty average overall. Parra is excellent at 9.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:12 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:
thebluesmancometh wrote:ye a little HERSH. Preistland really needs to up his game if he is to keep his spot, Robshaw in my view has already lost his back to Wood.

I don't think Preistland is the best 10 in Wales, but I think he's the best 10 option for Wales.

Robshaw is necessary in this team as it stands- at the moment he is making all of the tackles for the back row so that Croft can do his running around in the loose and use his pace to get to rucks before the opposition. Why they don't just give Croft the 7 shirt and Robshaw the 6 I do not know. Robshaw is doing, admittedly probably less well, a Lydiate job with his defence, but everybody was up in arms about how undervalued Lydiate is whilst ignoring the fact that Robshaw has 50% of his back row's, including bench, tackles and has missed only 1.

Match- Robshaw-England tackle counts - Robshaw- England missed tackles
Ireland - 11- 64- 0 - 7
France- 13- 97 1- 13
Wales- 9- 116 0 - 18
Italy- 16- 106 0- 8
Scotland- 15- 164 0- 14

Fair comment on Robshaws tackle count, but Croft took on more and more as the tournmanet progressed. He certainly seemd to be the one there doing the traditional 7 ball poaching job in the last two games.
Add in Crofts lineout contribution, as well as his contirubtions in attack, and overall I feel he contributed at leats as much as Robshaw by the end. I wouldnt have either in side of the torunament though, Croft because he starte dbadly, Robshaw because he faded as it went on.

I dont agree with ~~Chequred~~ Bluesman that Robshaw has lost his spot at all. Wood will have to eran his back, Lancaster is strict on that ( assuming he continues). Lancaster isnt going to ditch the capatin of a winning side that seems happy for a guy that hasnt been involved.

by Sgt_Pooly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:18 pm

I'm with you there Jersey. How can Lydiate be lauded as this underated workhorse allowing Warburton & Faletau to do the fancy stuff whilst Robshaw is seeming to get a bit of flack for doing the same job.

It's no coincidence that Croft has looked stronger this 6N, it's because Robshaw gets through all the dog work allowing him to cause damage elsewhere. A backrow is all about balance and Robshaw has been the glue in the England trio.

by thebluesmancometh Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:38 pm

You do make a good point boys, maybe I am underestimating Robshaw slightly.

But after seeing him play for his club, then on the international stage I just think he is out of his league somewhat. He'll make tackles in the tight, and not get dragged wide, very similar to Lydiate, but Crofts contributions are not enough IMO. His lineout work never questioned, and his ball carrying is always athletic, but for me Morgan is there for that, if England continue down the Wales route of defence then I think Robshaw and Croft need to either develop their game or be replaced. The only real battle they had this tourny was at Scotland and Wales, and I think both players were 2nd best.

I think they'll struggle V SA, but hope I'm wrong.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:41 pm

Bluesman,

I agree with you that hes not set the world on fire, he certainly started brighter than he finsihed. I just cant see England chucking him yet looking at the bigger picture.

It also brings up the old problem with the " captains cult" we have in English rugby

by Sgt_Pooly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:44 pm

Fair comments, I do think Robshaw grew through the 6N also.

Have to remember he's new to the scene and taking the added pressure of captain I thought he did well.

by **Biltong** Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:45 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:You do make a good point boys, maybe I am underestimating Robshaw slightly.

But after seeing him play for his club, then on the international stage I just think he is out of his league somewhat. He'll make tackles in the tight, and not get dragged wide, very similar to Lydiate, but Crofts contributions are not enough IMO. His lineout work never questioned, and his ball carrying is always athletic, but for me Morgan is there for that, if England continue down the Wales route of defence then I think Robshaw and Croft need to either develop their game or be replaced. The only real battle they had this tourny was at Scotland and Wales, and I think both players were 2nd best.

I think they'll struggle V SA, but hope I'm wrong.

Well I certainly hope you are right. Wink

by eirebilly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 12:58 pm

biltongbek wrote:
thebluesmancometh wrote:You do make a good point boys, maybe I am underestimating Robshaw slightly.

But after seeing him play for his club, then on the international stage I just think he is out of his league somewhat. He'll make tackles in the tight, and not get dragged wide, very similar to Lydiate, but Crofts contributions are not enough IMO. His lineout work never questioned, and his ball carrying is always athletic, but for me Morgan is there for that, if England continue down the Wales route of defence then I think Robshaw and Croft need to either develop their game or be replaced. The only real battle they had this tourny was at Scotland and Wales, and I think both players were 2nd best.

I think they'll struggle V SA, but hope I'm wrong.

Well I certainly hope you are right.

Come on biltong, England just crushed Ireland, surely they will crush your boys. They beat the team that beats you guys remember Wink

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 21 Mar 2012, 1:05 pm

True billy but SA would be favourites in a game of paper rock scissors

by flyhalffactory Wed 21 Mar 2012, 1:50 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Well seems as the majority of the team was made up of Welsh players it was pretty likely if anybody has a differing opinion it'll be against a Welsh player.

Only players that shouldn't be there for me are Cuthbert & Evans swapped with Bowe + one of Pape/Maestri.

Tuilagi is freak of nature, a lot like North. He's certainly not "one trick" but that trick he does have that you're insinuating is devastating. JD is a good player but just doesn't excel in any facet of his game. He'll go on to be a solid Int whilst Tuilagi will go on to become one of the best OC's in world rugby.

To say you genuinely are a WUM is perhaps unfair as we don't know whats going on in your mind............. so lets just say you are genuinely someone who needs to watch more rugby

Jon Davies is superior in every (and I mean every) facit of the game, he has faced Tuilagi on a number of occasions now and I can't recall one game that he was the second best player, plus when they have played other teams it is Jon Davies who has excelled this season.

Tuilagi is strong, agressive in the offense, but on the defence and particularly in the first 5 yards going forward or turning back he is less that average. Jon Davies in comparison is an "aware" player often shadowing the opposition rather than making the "headlining" tackles, deceptively fast, his balance running off either foot, and jinking runs clearly puts him quite a way ahead of Tuilagi AT PRESENT

Of course I haven't the stats to back up the performance of both players this season, so its just an opinion

To get back on the topic
I agree with the team selected with the exception of Ian Evans, I thought Ryan for Ireland had a great tournament in spite a poorly performing Ireland front five

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 21 Mar 2012, 2:20 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Well seems as the majority of the team was made up of Welsh players it was pretty likely if anybody has a differing opinion it'll be against a Welsh player.

Only players that shouldn't be there for me are Cuthbert & Evans swapped with Bowe + one of Pape/Maestri.

Tuilagi is freak of nature, a lot like North. He's certainly not "one trick" but that trick he does have that you're insinuating is devastating. JD is a good player but just doesn't excel in any facet of his game. He'll go on to be a solid Int whilst Tuilagi will go on to become one of the best OC's in world rugby.

To say you genuinely are a WUM is perhaps unfair as we don't know whats going on in your mind............. so lets just say you are genuinely someone who needs to watch more rugby

Jon Davies is superior in every (and I mean every) facit of the game, he has faced Tuilagi on a number of occasions now and I can't recall one game that he was the second best player, plus when they have played other teams it is Jon Davies who has excelled this season.

Tuilagi is strong, agressive in the offense, but on the defence and particularly in the first 5 yards going forward or turning back he is less that average. Jon Davies in comparison is an "aware" player often shadowing the opposition rather than making the "headlining" tackles, deceptively fast, his balance running off either foot, and jinking runs clearly puts him quite a way ahead of Tuilagi AT PRESENT

Of course I haven't the stats to back up the performance of both players this season, so its just an opinion

To get back on the topic
I agree with the team selected with the exception of Ian Evans, I thought Ryan for Ireland had a great tournament in spite a poorly performing Ireland front five

+1 JD2 I would say was one of the 6N best players.

by Sgt_Pooly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 2:42 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Well seems as the majority of the team was made up of Welsh players it was pretty likely if anybody has a differing opinion it'll be against a Welsh player.

Only players that shouldn't be there for me are Cuthbert & Evans swapped with Bowe + one of Pape/Maestri.

Tuilagi is freak of nature, a lot like North. He's certainly not "one trick" but that trick he does have that you're insinuating is devastating. JD is a good player but just doesn't excel in any facet of his game. He'll go on to be a solid Int whilst Tuilagi will go on to become one of the best OC's in world rugby.

To say you genuinely are a WUM is perhaps unfair as we don't know whats going on in your mind............. so lets just say you are genuinely someone who needs to watch more rugby

Jon Davies is superior in every (and I mean every) facit of the game, he has faced Tuilagi on a number of occasions now and I can't recall one game that he was the second best player, plus when they have played other teams it is Jon Davies who has excelled this season.

Tuilagi is strong, agressive in the offense, but on the defence and particularly in the first 5 yards going forward or turning back he is less that average. Jon Davies in comparison is an "aware" player often shadowing the opposition rather than making the "headlining" tackles, deceptively fast, his balance running off either foot, and jinking runs clearly puts him quite a way ahead of Tuilagi AT PRESENT

Of course I haven't the stats to back up the performance of both players this season, so its just an opinion

To get back on the topic
I agree with the team selected with the exception of Ian Evans, I thought Ryan for Ireland had a great tournament in spite a poorly performing Ireland front five

+1 JD2 I would say was one of the 6N best players.

The standard "you need to watch more rugby" comment if you state an opinion that differs. I could happily live with that idiotic comment if you hadn't have stated that JD was stronger in EVERY(and I mean every) facet of the game.

Are you telling me JD is more physical in the contact than Tuilagi?

I agree JD is a good player but I would prefer to have Tuilagi in my team every day of the week. I also watch enough rugby to forge an opinion thanks and I don't need you to tell me otherwise.

by asoreleftshoulder Wed 21 Mar 2012, 2:48 pm

wickedwasp wrote:OK, then

I'm right & everybody else is wrong

I feel much better now

That's the 606 spirit thumbsup

by **Biltong** Wed 21 Mar 2012, 2:51 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:True billy but SA would be favourites in a game of paper rock scissors

Don't know if Paper rock scissors are anything to go by, but I like the way you think PSW

by Comfort Wed 21 Mar 2012, 2:56 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Are you telling me JD is more physical in the contact than Tuilagi?

I agree JD is a good player but I would prefer to have Tuilagi in my team every day of the week. I also watch enough rugby to forge an opinion thanks and I don't need you to tell me otherwise.

Sgt Pooly, I think what you're looking at is 2 very different types of players. We have Roberts to do for us what Tuilagi does for England. It just so happens you seem to have another Roberts in Barritt inside him at 12 (although I think his distribution was criminally under-used this 6ns I can completely understand why England played how they did)

JD2 was a second pivot for us this 6ns because defences were closing down priestland and leaving the extra second or two for Jd2 to really excel.

I think they're opposing types of players, and putting those 2 types of player together (IMO) you get the perfect midfield. Ale

by **Biltong** Wed 21 Mar 2012, 2:58 pm

wickedwasp wrote:OK, then

I'm right & everybody else is wrong

I feel much better now

Wasp, it is beautifull to see how confidently you have settled here in 606V2. thumbsup

Our motto of " I right even when I'm wrong" will grow on you over weeks to come, eventually you will recite it with conviction and it will roll off your tongue without thinking about it. Laugh

Welcome to the Dark Side.

Spoiler:

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 21 Mar 2012, 3:03 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Well seems as the majority of the team was made up of Welsh players it was pretty likely if anybody has a differing opinion it'll be against a Welsh player.

Only players that shouldn't be there for me are Cuthbert & Evans swapped with Bowe + one of Pape/Maestri.

Tuilagi is freak of nature, a lot like North. He's certainly not "one trick" but that trick he does have that you're insinuating is devastating. JD is a good player but just doesn't excel in any facet of his game. He'll go on to be a solid Int whilst Tuilagi will go on to become one of the best OC's in world rugby.

To say you genuinely are a WUM is perhaps unfair as we don't know whats going on in your mind............. so lets just say you are genuinely someone who needs to watch more rugby

Jon Davies is superior in every (and I mean every) facit of the game, he has faced Tuilagi on a number of occasions now and I can't recall one game that he was the second best player, plus when they have played other teams it is Jon Davies who has excelled this season.

Tuilagi is strong, agressive in the offense, but on the defence and particularly in the first 5 yards going forward or turning back he is less that average. Jon Davies in comparison is an "aware" player often shadowing the opposition rather than making the "headlining" tackles, deceptively fast, his balance running off either foot, and jinking runs clearly puts him quite a way ahead of Tuilagi AT PRESENT

Of course I haven't the stats to back up the performance of both players this season, so its just an opinion

To get back on the topic
I agree with the team selected with the exception of Ian Evans, I thought Ryan for Ireland had a great tournament in spite a poorly performing Ireland front five

Be patient, young man, they are on their way shortly! Wink

by Sgt_Pooly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 3:14 pm

Comfort......I have no issues with that, I just disagree with being told I need to watch more rugby & JD is better in EVERY aspect of his game.

If people prefer JD over Tuilagi I'm happy for them, JD has come on leaps this 6N in a national sense. I've always thought he had talent from watching him with the Scarlets but suspected King made him look better than actually was.....he's proved me wrong in that aspect at the very least.

by flyhalffactory Wed 21 Mar 2012, 3:23 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Well seems as the majority of the team was made up of Welsh players it was pretty likely if anybody has a differing opinion it'll be against a Welsh player.

Only players that shouldn't be there for me are Cuthbert & Evans swapped with Bowe + one of Pape/Maestri.

Tuilagi is freak of nature, a lot like North. He's certainly not "one trick" but that trick he does have that you're insinuating is devastating. JD is a good player but just doesn't excel in any facet of his game. He'll go on to be a solid Int whilst Tuilagi will go on to become one of the best OC's in world rugby.

To say you genuinely are a WUM is perhaps unfair as we don't know whats going on in your mind............. so lets just say you are genuinely someone who needs to watch more rugby

Jon Davies is superior in every (and I mean every) facit of the game, he has faced Tuilagi on a number of occasions now and I can't recall one game that he was the second best player, plus when they have played other teams it is Jon Davies who has excelled this season.

Tuilagi is strong, agressive in the offense, but on the defence and particularly in the first 5 yards going forward or turning back he is less that average. Jon Davies in comparison is an "aware" player often shadowing the opposition rather than making the "headlining" tackles, deceptively fast, his balance running off either foot, and jinking runs clearly puts him quite a way ahead of Tuilagi AT PRESENT

Of course I haven't the stats to back up the performance of both players this season, so its just an opinion

To get back on the topic
I agree with the team selected with the exception of Ian Evans, I thought Ryan for Ireland had a great tournament in spite a poorly performing Ireland front five

+1 JD2 I would say was one of the 6N best players.

The standard "you need to watch more rugby" comment if you state an opinion that differs. I could happily live with that idiotic comment if you hadn't have stated that JD was stronger in EVERY(and I mean every) facet of the game.

Are you telling me JD is more physical in the contact than Tuilagi?

I agree JD is a good player but I would prefer to have Tuilagi in my team every day of the week. I also watch enough rugby to forge an opinion thanks and I don't need you to tell me otherwise.

Nothing wrong with opinion
I am just saying............ in what areas of the game do you think Tuilagi is better than Davies

If you watch games then you can go over the matches they both faced each other both on a club and international level and there have been quite a few over the last two seasons. I have seen Davies play against us at club level and international, and I have seen Tuilagi at the same levels.......... I am convinced who has the most potential and who has been then most destructive player (based on what I have seen both on live and televised games).

If you are basing your opinion on "been more physical" as the pre-requisite to be a "world class 13"............ well wow beggars belief

By the way he is not a freak of nature, his entire family are huge

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 21 Mar 2012, 3:30 pm

Fly,

You are contradicting yourself there.

Power is an aspect of rugby. Tuilagi has more power.
Being physical is an aspect of rugby. Tuilagi is more physical.
Tackling destructively is an aspect of rugby. Tuilgi is a more destructive tackler.
The ability to get back on your feet and steal the ball is another thing Tuilgi is very strong at.

Thats four aspects I feel he excels at where JD2 doesnt.

You may well be right in saying hes not the better player, but its wrong to say weaker in every aspect. Frankly silly to be honest.
Noone has claimed that " being more physical" is the only apsect that counts, but it is an aspect.

This isnt to take away from JD2 or rubbish him, just to point out that when peopel make OTT sweeping statements and insult posters its inevitable they will get a repsonse.

by Sgt_Pooly Wed 21 Mar 2012, 3:42 pm

Thanks Peter, you've just saved me some typing.

Flyhalf, I never stated that Tuilagi was world class nor did I state physicality was the requirement to be at that level.

I was just responding to your comment that JD was stronger in EVERY (and I mean every) comment. He isn't.

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