The Official 2013 Wales v England bickering thread.

[HERSH]

First topic message reminder :

2013 bickering thread

OK, every year we see threads that actually contain really good rugby discussion derailed by the ongoing Wales vs England bickering and WUMMING! I will name no names. I guess we have all been guilty.

Since most of the general bickering comes from the respective fans of Wales and England ; I thought I would create a thread for it in an effort to keep decent rugby discussion relatively WUM free in other threads.

Let it commence

[ScarletSpiderman]

Surely you can be very Welsh and very British. I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

Ah see there is an English point of view, I see them as two totally different things, and you see English and British as one and the same. I bet well over 75% of English people couldn't tell you that the English flag is non red white and blue.

[sugarNspikes]

Care to explain the Welsh point of view on it?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

You can indeed be very Welsh and very British. I do, however, think Hersh is telling a porky pie about being at the Millennium Stadium the other day. Why would he have gone if he doesn't like football?

[ScarletSpiderman]

Sugar - yeah they are not exclusive, the same as being a 'brit' (which a huge number of british people are not) and being European. Or being European and being Northen hemisphere, etc etc.

The thing is Welsh understand that being Welsh and British are two different things, the English (or a heap of them that I know) struggle to tell the difference between British and English, and belive the English national flag is the Union Jack etc

[ScarletSpiderman]

You can indeed be very Welsh and very British. I do, however, think Hersh is telling a porky pie about being at the Millennium Stadium the other day. Why would he have gone if he doesn't like football?

Glory Supporting, just like why he has such a keen interest in the Ospreys.

[sugarNspikes]

Surely you can be very Welsh and very British. I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

Ah see there is an English point of view, I see them as two totally different things, and you see English and British as one and the same. I bet well over 75% of English people couldn't tell you that the English flag is non red white and blue.

Thanks for explaing how I feel.

I don't see them as one and the same at all, I see them as two separate entities that can overlap. I'm also proudly Yorkshire.

This idea that all English people are Royalty-worshipping, non-flag-understanding imbeciles is patronising claptrap

[Effervescing Elephant]

I don't know any English people who think the Union Jack is the flag of England. If these people truly exist it is all of our duty be we English, Welsh or Zanussian to stop them breeding. Will somebody please think about the children!!!!!

[Effervescing Elephant]

Surely you can be very Welsh and very British. I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

Ah see there is an English point of view, I see them as two totally different things, and you see English and British as one and the same. I bet well over 75% of English people couldn't tell you that the English flag is non red white and blue.

So you truly believe that 37.5 million people don't know what the St George's cross is? Just looking at the number of annoying car window St George's crosses on view at every single football tournament disproves this opinion!

[ScarletSpiderman]

Surely you can be very Welsh and very British. I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

Ah see there is an English point of view, I see them as two totally different things, and you see English and British as one and the same. I bet well over 75% of English people couldn't tell you that the English flag is non red white and blue.

Thanks for explaing how I feel.

I don't see them as one and the same at all, I see them as two separate entities that can overlap. I'm also proudly Yorkshire.

This idea that all English people are Royalty-worshipping, non-flag-understanding imbeciles is patronising claptrap

Well the majority of English people I know are Norfolk (in laws), Hampshire (family) and a few from elsewhere and God's honest truth about 75% of them are the royal-worshipping ibeciles (as you put it) that I described. Then there are the pundits/jurnos on/at the Olymics who get confused whether they are talking about England or Britain.

Carpe - I ain't saying that they don't know what it is, I am saying that they don't appreciate the difference between the St. George's Cross and the Union Flag. Look at the amount of incorrect flags that get waved around at England Wendyball internationals. It is not a pop at anyone, but just an observation I have made.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

You can indeed be very Welsh and very British. I do, however, think Hersh is telling a porky pie about being at the Millennium Stadium the other day. Why would he have gone if he doesn't like football?

Glory Supporting, just like why he has such a keen interest in the Ospreys.

Or he's made it up as a pretext to say we should get rid of 'Hen Wlad fy Nhadau'.

[munkian]

My missus overheard a woman in a hair dressers admitting that she didn't know what countries made up Britain. It's mostly the English that are rabid 'Brits' at the moment. Some might say that the word 'British' is just a way of forcing English culture on the Welsh, Scotish and Irish.

Strangely enough though I love the Lions tours.

[Jimpy]

[quote="ScarletSpiderman"]

Surely you can be very Welsh and very British. I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

Ah see there is an English point of view, I see them as two totally different things, and you see English and British as one and the same. I bet well over 75% of English people couldn't tell you that the English flag is non red white and blue.

Thanks for explaing how I feel.

I don't see them as one and the same at all, I see them as two separate entities that can overlap. I'm also proudly Yorkshire.

This idea that all English people are Royalty-worshipping, non-flag-understanding imbeciles is patronising claptrap

Well the majority of English people I know are Norfolk (in laws), Hampshire (family) and a few from elsewhere and God's honest truth about 75% of them are the royal-worshipping ibeciles (as you put it) that I described. Then there are the pundits/jurnos on/at the Olymics who get confused whether they are talking about England or Britain.

Carpe - I ain't saying that they don't know what it is, I am saying that they don't appreciate the difference between the St. George's Cross and the Union Flag. Look at the amount of incorrect flags that get waved around at England Wendyball internationals. It is not a pop at anyone, but just an observation I have made.

Well, since the Union Flag is nearly symmetrical, its probably a quite easy mistake to make, even for normally intelligent people. I expect they avoided the possibility of Welsh embarassment by sticking a bloody great dragon on their flag. That way only a complete imbecile could get it upside down..

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Some might say that the word 'British' is just a way of forcing English culture on the Welsh, Scotish and Irish.

And some might say that's rubbish.

[bluestonevedder]

Some might say that the word 'British' is just a way of forcing English culture on the Welsh, Scotish and Irish.

And some might say that's rubbish.

[ScarletSpiderman]

Jimpy - are you real?


Carpe Diem & Co. please read this post

Well, since the Union Flag is nearly symmetrical, its probably a quite easy mistake to make, even for normally intelligent people. I expect they avoided the possibility of Welsh embarassment by sticking a bloody great dragon on their flag. That way only a complete imbecile could get it upside down..

I really hope that this is a WUM post!

[ScarletSpiderman]

Some might say that the word 'British' is just a way of forcing English culture on the Welsh, Scotish and Irish.

And some might say that's rubbish.

And some may argue that of all the English, Irish, Scots and Welsh the English have the lesser right to call themselves 'brits' ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britons_(historical) ) after all they are Anglo-Saxon (the name England coming from Angle-Land).

[sugarNspikes]

You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't!

[anotherworldofpain]

[Effervescing Elephant]

Jimpy - are you real?


Carpe Diem & Co. please read this post

Well, since the Union Flag is nearly symmetrical, its probably a quite easy mistake to make, even for normally intelligent people. I expect they avoided the possibility of Welsh embarassment by sticking a bloody great dragon on their flag. That way only a complete imbecile could get it upside down..

I really hope that this is a WUM post!

I retract my earlier statements and throw myself upon the mercy of the Welsh. Please help us.

[ScarletSpiderman]

Jimpy - are you real?


Carpe Diem & Co. please read this post

Well, since the Union Flag is nearly symmetrical, its probably a quite easy mistake to make, even for normally intelligent people. I expect they avoided the possibility of Welsh embarassment by sticking a bloody great dragon on their flag. That way only a complete imbecile could get it upside down..

I really hope that this is a WUM post!

I retract my earlier statements and throw myself upon the mercy of the Welsh. Please help us.

[Effervescing Elephant]

[munkian]

Some might say that the word 'British' is just a way of forcing English culture on the Welsh, Scotish and Irish.

And some might say that's rubbish.

I throw that quote around a bit and I only ever get a couple of words in reply.


First time it's been rubbished by someone who I assume is Welsh though.

I'm not a staunch believer in it myself though I think it has elements of truth.

Care to elaborate on your reply Luckless - just for debates sake (I'm bored, very slow Monday )

[mystiroakey]

Well what should we call ourselves collectively then muniken?

They has to be a name, because we are all part of this collective union internationaly

[Morgannwg]

Nice bit of action started by the Borat/Yoda hybrid. Well done lads.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Some might say that the word 'British' is just a way of forcing English culture on the Welsh, Scotish and Irish.

And some might say that's rubbish.

I throw that quote around a bit and I only ever get a couple of words in reply.


First time it's been rubbished by someone who I assume is Welsh though.

I'm not a staunch believer in it myself though I think it has elements of truth.

Care to elaborate on your reply Luckless - just for debates sake (I'm bored, very slow Monday )

Not really, other than that I don't believe there's any truth to it at all. It's fashionable to lay the blame for the bad things the British Empire did at the feet of the English, but we were all at it.

What time do you finish? I'm off at four!

[ScarletSpiderman]

Well what should we call ourselves collectively then muniken?

They has to be a name, because we are all part of this collective union internationaly

The thing is if someone asked you what you were, what would you say? Are you English (or Irish/Welsh/Scottish), or British, or European, etc. Whilst you are technically all of them your define yourself (when asked) by one, and the only people who have a health number (that I know of) that classes themselves as British are English.

[mystiroakey]

can i just say- together like in the olympics we are better!!

Its nice to do this together and do so well!

[mystiroakey]

Well what should we call ourselves collectively then muniken?

They has to be a name, because we are all part of this collective union internationaly

The thing is if someone asked you what you were, what would you say? Are you English (or Irish/Welsh/Scottish), or British, or European, etc. Whilst you are technically all of them your define yourself (when asked) by one, and the only people who have a health number (that I know of) that classes themselves as British are English.

what embassy would you go to in a forign country?

what passport to you pull out?

what does our UN seat represent, or g8 or the security councils?

Who are we in europe

If we join the army- who do we fight for?

who are we in the eyes of international law.

Me personally am just a londoner mate- not even english- but being a londener or an englishman is immaterial to our status internationally. We are all from the UK of GB and NI.

[ScarletSpiderman]

What time do you finish? I'm off at four!

Same here, didn't notice how close it was until i read your post!!

[Luckless Pedestrian]

It's always good to get Monday out of the way!

[ScarletSpiderman]

Well what should we call ourselves collectively then muniken?

They has to be a name, because we are all part of this collective union internationaly

The thing is if someone asked you what you were, what would you say? Are you English (or Irish/Welsh/Scottish), or British, or European, etc. Whilst you are technically all of them your define yourself (when asked) by one, and the only people who have a health number (that I know of) that classes themselves as British are English.

what embassy would you go to in a forign country?

what passport to you pull out?

what does our UN seat represent, or g8 or the security councils?

Who are we in europe

If we join the army- who do we fight for?

who are we in the eyes of international law.

Me personally am just a londoner mate- not even english- but being a londener or an englishman is immaterial to our status internationally. We are all from the UK of GB and NI.

I can see where your coming from, but that does not mean we need to like being part of it.

[mystiroakey]

Scarlet do you not enjoy us being in the olympics together?

do you not like the lions?

[munkian]

We are UK in the Olympics

I'd say I'm Welsh before I'm British - but I wasn't disputing the term British.

You say were 'were all at it' - I'd say it was mostly the Scots and the Irish and then the Welsh who died for it and the English reaped the reward.

But the empire is'nt particularly relevant.

The most common event of the English using the term British (outside the Olympics) is when one of us wins something. If an English athelete wins at something - they are English. If they are Scotish, Northen Irish or Welsh they are generally refered to as British. Just saying : )

And I finish at 1740. You go to hell, you to hell and you die !

[mystiroakey]

so would you rather being called 'united kindomish'- it doesnt work mate

[Luckless Pedestrian]

You say were 'were all at it' - I'd say it was mostly the Scots and the Irish and then the Welsh who died for it and the English reaped the reward.

And your views are based on what?

[ScarletSpiderman]

Scarlet do you not enjoy us being in the olympics together?

do you not like the lions?

I have watched some of the Olymics, and have wanted to see Team GB do well, but I would rather have seen the same set up as at the Commonwealth Games, where Wales are there representing themselves. And to be honest I would probably still want to see the English lot doing well in an event if Wales were out, as they are our neighbours/rivals.

I take an interst in what the local lads do in the Lions, and then what the Welsh do. Yes I take an interest, but probably not as much as I would have taken if it was Wales touring.

[mystiroakey]

Gonna be honest- i dont think the lions helps us individually- but the olympics is brilliant and long may us all stay in the union and play together in that.

[ScarletSpiderman]

We are UK in the Olympics

I'd say I'm Welsh before I'm British - but I wasn't disputing the term British.

You say were 'were all at it' - I'd say it was mostly the Scots and the Irish and then the Welsh who died for it and the English reaped the reward.

But the empire is'nt particularly relevant.

The most common event of the English using the term British (outside the Olympics) is when one of us wins something. If an English athelete wins at something - they are English. If they are Scotish, Northen Irish or Welsh they are generally refered to as British. Just saying : )
And I finish at 1740. You go to hell, you to hell and you die !

Andy Murray was being hyped as Britains #1 then he lost in the Wimbledon final and he was the Scotsman who broke down in tears.

[Knowsit17]

They don't give out trophies for temporarily being fourth in the rankings

[ScarletSpiderman]

Gonna be honest- i dont think the lions helps us individually- but the olympics is brilliant and long may us all stay in the union and play together in that.

Why together though. Other than wanting other people to bring you success?

[munkian]

The seat of the Empire being English for a start.

See they've played the whole divide and conquer thing very well Luckless, they have us two arguing in a 'Wales v England thread'

Did you go to the Dragon's fun day ? I got a season ticket for my 31st, going to try and make the Zebre game. We need Lions onesies...

[Morgannwg]

I love the olympics, and passionately support team GB. I like the idea of the nations of the commonwealth games coming together to represent GB every four years. My only wish is for rugby to be there too. A GB sevens team playing NZ/SA would be interesting to say the least. Plus it will help develop rugby across the world.

[mystiroakey]

What do you mean other people?

we are all the same- we all buy the lottery. that funds our players from all over the uk, we all pay taxes, we all recieve benefits,etc, etc, etc. The system is UK wide

[bluestonevedder]

Can't agree with you more mystiroakey and morgannwg

Really annoys me, all this petulant cynicism.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

So because the seat of Empire was London, the Welsh, Scottish and Irish died and the English profited?

I didn't go the fun day. I'll be there for the London Irish match though - as long as my season ticket comes through in time!

[munkian]

The majority of the British army was made up of Irish, Scoytish and Welsh ergot, the common soldiers died but it was the rich land owning English elite that profited from Imperialism.

Any way- yeah - mine hasn't arrived yet either.. bad times

[mystiroakey]

What are you two on about jeas! its history lads.. you might as well blame a couple of villages thousands of years ago for fighting amongst each other

[munkian]

Can't agree with you more mystiroakey and morgannwg

Really annoys me, all this petulant cynicism.

I get annoyed by all this temporary Jingoism, ah well, all over soon

[munkian]

What are you two on about jeas! its history lads.. you might as well blame a couple of villages thousands of years ago for fighting amongst each other

Hmmm.. it's not that long ago, and easy for the conquerer to say

You don't see Tibet cheering for China

The aircon has died in my office. As my posts become more erratic I blame the lack of oxygen to the brain

[Knowsit17]

What are you two on about jeas! its history lads.. you might as well blame a couple of villages thousands of years ago for fighting amongst each other

The concept of a United Kingdom has been dead from birth. It always was smeared with blood due to the subject nations being forced at gunpoint to declare themselves unified with England, that is if they were allowed the privilege of declaring anything at all. Would you be able to live with that if you were from Wales, Scotland or NI?

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