Ben Morgan tells Phill Kingsley Jones that he wants to play for England.

First topic message reminder :

The Scarlets number eight will qualify for Wales before the six nations. He is a born and bred Englishman despite playing his senior rugby in Wales.

Phill said he asked Morgan straight up what he wanted to do and he said he wants to play for England.

So, England fans you have a superb number eight waiting for the call, what do you think Lancaster will do?

Great news - should he look for another club then?

I'm sure Bath would be interested.

Number eight isn't a problem sounds like we now have ben morgan, narraway, robshaw and waldrom in the short term and haskell, fearns and crane and possibly even vunipola in the longer term. My worry is still openside as we have lots of good back rowers but no specialist and i don't think saull, wallace or seymour are quite there yet....i can see a back row for 6's again...although i'm sure thats for another thread !

Stidy,

Is Fearns long term injured? He hasnt pklayed for a while

maestegmafia wrote:The Scarlets number eight will qualify for Wales before the six nations. He is a born and bred Englishman despite playing his senior rugby in Wales.

Phill said he asked Morgan straight up what he wanted to do and he said he wants to play for England.

So, England fans you have a superb number eight waiting for the call, what do you think Lancaster will do?

His surname is Morgan there must be a little Welsh breeding there somewhere!

Bloody English always taking our favorite toys!

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:So Rory with two world class backrowers, second only to Keiran Read ( so not actually world class then?) arent you humilated that the rest of the Ireland team is so poor that they are perenial also rans who cant touch new zealand?

Or is it not actually that humilaiting that not every position in every team is filled with world greats and do you sometimes accept that players have to be picked because there just isnt anyone else? Can you not als accept that bnot being as good as the best in New Zelaand doesnt make a player pathetic by the rets of the worlds (especially the NH's ) standards?

And lets face it we are only having this discussion because Haskell and Crane arent available. (And no im not sugesting either of those are very good but both would be obvious choices for Lancaster one being the expereinced proven international the other being the guy he had starting for the churchill cup)

I suspect he will go with Narraway and Morgan in the sqaud with Narraway playing. Dowson, Johnson and Robshaw offer other options.

Yes Id be suprissed and annoyed withthe coach if Waldrom was picked, but not humilated. Personaly I would have kept Easter in the squad, but Lancaster has a different idea obviosuly.

Hang on - so just because Kieran Read is probably the best 8 in the world, no other 8s are world class?

Waldrom was never that good in NZ. He was always average, and would be no matter where he played. It doesn't matter about who is "starting". In fact, NZ have frequently had two of the best players in certain positions, two world class players but only one could start obviously. I rate Haskell highly as a 6, and I also rate Crane highly and feel if not injured he would be the best 8 England have.

The humiliating fact has nothing to do with whether Waldrom is world class or not obviously - it is to do with the fact he isn't even english, and on top of that, he isn't actually that good a player. So if that was the best england could do, well, that is pretty embarrassing. And to add to that, I do not think he is the best england could do. So picking him would just be embarrassing.

Waldrom wouldn't make my EPS, but I wouldn't be humiliated to have him in the squad, especially considering how many players are out of contention due to injury and being abroad.

Rory, are you humiliated by grandparent qualified Tom Court being in the Ireland squad and gaining numerous caps?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:So Rory with two world class backrowers, second only to Keiran Read ( so not actually world class then?) arent you humilated that the rest of the Ireland team is so poor that they are perenial also rans who cant touch new zealand?

Or is it not actually that humilaiting that not every position in every team is filled with world greats and do you sometimes accept that players have to be picked because there just isnt anyone else? Can you not als accept that bnot being as good as the best in New Zelaand doesnt make a player pathetic by the rets of the worlds (especially the NH's ) standards?

And lets face it we are only having this discussion because Haskell and Crane arent available. (And no im not sugesting either of those are very good but both would be obvious choices for Lancaster one being the expereinced proven international the other being the guy he had starting for the churchill cup)

I suspect he will go with Narraway and Morgan in the sqaud with Narraway playing. Dowson, Johnson and Robshaw offer other options.

Yes Id be suprissed and annoyed withthe coach if Waldrom was picked, but not humilated. Personaly I would have kept Easter in the squad, but Lancaster has a different idea obviosuly.

Hang on - so just because Kieran Read is probably the best 8 in the world, no other 8s are world class?

Waldrom was never that good in NZ. He was always average, and would be no matter where he played. It doesn't matter about who is "starting". In fact, NZ have frequently had two of the best players in certain positions, two world class players but only one could start obviously. I rate Haskell highly as a 6, and I also rate Crane highly and feel if not injured he would be the best 8 England have.

The humiliating fact has nothing to do with whether Waldrom is world class or not obviously - it is to do with the fact he isn't even english, and on top of that, he isn't actually that good a player. So if that was the best england could do, well, that is pretty embarrassing. And to add to that, I do not think he is the best england could do. So picking him would just be embarrassing.

Well if world class doesnt mean being bette rthan other players in your position what does it mean? I gues sthat s one of those debates that will never end. Its certainly a horrible phrase but Ill forgive you for it.

Aside form that you appear to be argiung exactly what I was, expcept that its somehow humilating to pick players who are qualified. Average NZ players would get into all sorts of NH sides, theres just a lot of much better players there. OK I guess you could argue thats kind of humiliating for the entire NH but I guess I objected to your out an out attack and generaly obnoxious first couple of posts on the subject. I guess well find out how humilated Ireland are when they pick Strauss, or how humilated Wales are that Morgan turned them down.

As we both agree, the real point here isthat hes not the best option avaibale to England for either the short or medium term. Although I could see the argument of havinga destructive trundler especially against Scotland in whats likley to be the usual dull slogathon. Theres impoly is noone else in the NH with his ability to take the ball forwards (carried for 83 meters vs Powells 2 in the last game) I doubt very much that Lancaster will pick him though. The rest of his game is limited, he'd be a horses for courses pick but nothing more.

Just found this form Rowntree:

"I'm delighted he's decided he wants to play for England. We've been looking at him a long time," Rowntree said. "We will be looking, without pre-empting selection, to get him involved very quickly.

"He's athletic, a big ball-carrying No.8 who is good at lots of things, a good lineout forward and good collision skills."

and

Although Morgan plays in Wales that will not affect his availability for England because his contract pre-dates the Rugby Football Union's decision not to select players from outside of the Aviva Premiership.

Well I'll eat my hat and say to Maesteg you were right chap. They are crawling after the Wales number two. I do still think Narraway will be Lancasters first choice, he had him as Captain and thinks highly of him.

"They are crawling after the Wales number two"

First time for everything eh Pete...!

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Although Morgan plays in Wales that will not affect his availability for England because his contract pre-dates the Rugby Football Union's decision not to select players from outside of the Aviva Premiership.

That's been misreported. The RFU policy was announced in December 2010 and Morgan signed a new contract in March 2011. Looks like the new coaches will just be ignoring the policy altogether.

I think the crux of the matter here is NOT who Morgan wants to play for, if he considers himself to be English, it's fairly natural (if not a bit of a snub to the country responsible for his development) for him to want to play for England.

The key decision on this matter should lie with the country that offers Morgan his first cap, please let it be for the right reasons and not just to deny the "other country" an opportunity, be fair and honest to the boy and nothing else.

Oh, and having read back through the thread I think Rory_G has had a bit of a hard time over his "humiliation" comment, personally speaking, if Waldrom was the best we had on offer for the future of England Rugby, I'll wait till you've all fecked off and turn the light our meself.