Aviva Premiership Season 1 - Homepage

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Bath Rugby	Bathite
Exeter Chiefs	Ballbag
Gloucester	Prop
Harlequins	Driver
Leicester Tigers	Pooly
London Irish	Pull
London Wasps	Nick
Newcastle Falcons	Flux
Northampton Saints	Johnny
Sale Sharks	Ollie
Saracens	Luke
Worcester Warriors	ITFL

PREM R2 - https://www.606v2.com/t22456-aviva-premiership-round-2-week-6#886054


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WAITING LIST:
1. HERSH

1
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Deacon
5. Lawes
6. Croft
7. Wood
8.

is for me the basis of a very good pack. Strong carrying 8 and a Corbs playing well form a pack that I like and I don't think will struggle against Ireland or Wales.

Hartley needs to step up as he has not really kicked on at international level, Cole got scrummaging lessons against Scotland and France and has not shown that he provides a huge amount in the loose since returning to Leicester. Deacon is injured but is not a top international 4 as he is not dynamic enough and I am not convinced that Croft and Wood would work together.

We put Englands pack up on a pedestal as it has historically been very good, but in terms of the modern game we have fallen way behind the other top countries.

I agree with Deacon, he's a good step in. But we do need more dynamism.

Deacon for me is so average. Compare his workrate to Garvey and attwoods

He is a top draw scrummager and hits rucks for fun though Nick, you need somebody alongside Lawes like that as he doesn't. Your BS normally does this too (Smith & Kaino prime examples) but Croft doesn't.

All about balance, glad I'm not Lancaster!

Deacon is an excellent AP player who fits perfectly into the Leicester system, but he is even more average than Borthwick at international level and therein lies the problem we've had in this country for a very long time, we see average players as better than they are for some reason.

In all honesty, look at the pack you have picked Steve and tell me how many of those players would get into each of the All Blacks, Australia, South Africa, French, Welsh or Irish packs right now?

Cole may get into the Aussie pack as their props are pump but that's it, not one other single player there would oust their direct opponent from any of them sides.

Deacon in much better than Borthwick imo

I disagree pooly, but in any case being better than Borthwick does not make him a quality international and he never will be, which is why I see no value in keeping him in for another year and holding back younger guys like Attwood and Garvey, who need to be given the opportunity to see if they can take their chance.

Not sure Pete, I'm a big fan of Palmer. He could get in a few teams.

Palmer is not in that team that Steve selected Flux.

Some good debate going on here, good to see. Waldrom, Deacon and Benjamin were players I fogot about. Not a fan of Waldrom in an England shirt, seems Morgan is a better option and Robshaw can cover 8, so I think go for an out and out 7 if choosing 5 back rows. Maybe Wallace or Seymour? Seymour for me.

Benjamin ahead of Banahan, but keep Strettle, very good defensively, good brain, pace. Got to have one winger with a bit of discipline if Ashton is going to drift and come inside, thats fine, but need some structure a la cueto.

If Lawes and Attwood are the long term enforcers, whats the point of including Deacon, may as well look at other options Robson, Garvey, Gaskell. Realistically, none are going to get much gametime, its just training with the squad if you think about it. 7/8 out of the 32 won't get a minute of gametime, so doesn't matter if 'they aren't quite ready'

Deacon being still involved with England surely points to him being better?

Agree he's not a top Int though

Palmer could be world class now and again, having a poor season for Stade though, looks a year past his best but still a good player

Was just adding him to mix mate

Andrew Sheridan (Replaced by Corbs early)
Dylan Hartley
Dan Cole
Louis Deacon
Tom Palmer
Tom Wood
James Haskell
Nick Easter

Thomas Domingo
William Servat
Nicolas Mas
Julien Pierre
Lionel Nallet
Thierry Dusautoir (c)
Imanol Harinordoquy
Sebastien Chabal

These were the two packs from England v France last 6N. As I remember we gave them a bit of a hiding upfront (scrum certainly) and that has enough players left who will likely play in 6N. I don't think we are in that much trouble.

Seymour is the best 'fetcher' currently in England. His defensive work rate is unreal but his carrying is only really good as a link man rather than someone who will crash across the gainline.

He is worth a look I reckon, but I don't think lancaster will go for him

Last 6 Nations France played some poor rugby, it's not really a good barometer for what will happen next month and where the teams/players are now is it?

Steven_Sharks wrote:Seymour is the best 'fetcher' currently in England. His defensive work rate is unreal but his carrying is only really good as a link man rather than someone who will crash across the gainline.

He is worth a look I reckon, but I don't think lancaster will go for him

I think Wallace has a bit more about him as a genuine 7 and is more likely to make it as an international long term so would prefer to see him involved in the squad if Lancaster does want a fetcher in there.

But we have players who can do it and have proved it in the past. A new start shouldn't just mean new players, but new starts for players already there.

I agree steve

What have they proved?

Look at how our pack approach a game. Now some of it may be poor gameplan form the coaches, but in times of trouble people fall back on what comes naturally as it is comfortable, so a certain amount of how we've played recently comes from what the players have inside them.

Then look at the best teams in the world, in both international and club rugby.

New Zealand, Australia, South Africa.

Crusaders, Reds, Leinster, Toulouse.

All of those have packs that play with pace and dynamism. If you contrast how they play to how the players in the England pack play, it is poles apart. We need to get in the here and now and realise that rugby has moved on from 1996-2003. We are stuck at the beginning of the professional era still in how we are trying to play.

SCW professionalised how England prepared, but the style of play on the pitch has not moved on since then, whereas the rest of the world has!

I agree I'd like a dynamic pack.

But who are the dynamic players with pace you'd include?

Garvey and Morgan

My pack to start the first game against Scotland would be (fitness permitting)

1. Corbisiero
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Garvey
5. Lawes
6. Robshaw
7. Wood
8. Morgan

16. ??? 17. Doran-Jones 18. Attwood 19. Croft

If we are looking for Dynamism then I'd have Croft in and wouldn't have PDJ on the bench. I'd have Stevens in there.

PDJ def over Stevens 100%

Good pack, lineout would be a serious worry.

Is Croft actually that dynamic? He is quick and athletic, but does he hit rucks hard and clear players out? Does he make hard yards in the tight channels close to rucks?

For me his strenghts are his lineout work, his carrying in open space and his athleticism getting round the park to make tackles.

They are admirable strengths and he is a very good player but I want my blindside doing the top two things first and foremost, along with tackling anything that moves. For me at the moment, that is Robshaw.

Pete

Do you know how to prevent me automatically 'watching' threads when I comment on them. It's only started happening tonight, and having a blackberry I get email notifications every time someone comments and its driving me mad.

Robshaw/Wood partnership is mouth watering....could see those two compete with the best.

I also agree, can't see a starting spot for Croft, but impact bench players don't come much better than him

Why would the lineout be a worry Pooly?

Wood can call the lineout, he does it regularly for Saints and has his club hooker in there for support. Garvey is a solid front jumper and Lawes is athletic and good in the lineout although lacks the intelligence to lead it.

Robshaw and Morgan are both regular receivers for their clubs at the back of the lineout.

That is all of the forwards from 4 to 8 contributing in some way.

Notifications - me too, I have unwatched this thread 4 times! aaargh

I keep pressing the stop watching topic button but it watches it again when i next comment.

Steve, see this thread for your answer mate

https://www.606v2.com/t21647-topic-reply-notification-emails-and-how-to-turn-them-off

What do we think the likelyhood of having Robshaw or Wood at 8. I think it might happen.

I wouldn't fancy Wood up against any of the top locks in world rugby. A lineout leader also calls defensive lineouts, Wood is good in the lineout but not a leader imo.

Would see major issues there

Wood has never played there as far as i know and Robshaw only limited time there. I wouldn't be keen on either of them there unless they get a fair bit of club gametime in the short to be honest.

Who would you have leading the lineout Pooly?

That's the issue, Deacon was brought in to do it as Lawes couldn't and Palmer struggled.

We either play Deacon or a lineout lock (Parling, Robson(not a fan), Borths, anyone else?!?!

Set piece has to be nailed then you build a team round that

Croft or Palmer IMO

Croft doesn't lead the line at Tigers as far as I'm aware. Parling or Deacon does...I was watching on Sat and think Kitchener did?!?!

I think bringing in a player just so that he can call the lineouts is flawed thinking if he contributes little else.

Wood calls the lineout for Saints. if he can do it at club level there is no reason why he can't do it at international level.

Croft does not call the lineout at Tigers. He is a good jumper and go to man and very good at stealing but he cannot run the lineout.

Does Wood call the lineout? You 100% on that?

At Leicester, in order I believe it goes Deacon, then Parling, then either Kitchener or Slater before Croft. They are very set in how they work and my understanding is they believe that it is a locks job.

Really struggling with this 2nd foreign!! Stuck between 2/3 players

I've not watched Saints much this season Pooly, but last season, it was always either Wood or Day who called it, and Day was in and out of the side with Sorenson often selected ahead of him.

I'd be amazed if Manoa or Lawes was calling it this season, so the only other viable alternative who could be calling it for Saints is Clark, but as I say, I've not watched them much this year.

Anyone willing to deal on a; LH, BS, SH, FH or an OC?

agree with pete

robshaw, wood, morgan for me is the way forward.
croft as an impact sub.

unsure about corbisiero at the moment, form has been hit and miss, wood has been great and one poor game v worcester seems to of dropped his rating by a few people.

Loosehead is well covered, Corbisiero, Wood, Mullan, Marler would be my order with Corbs only holding on to top spot by virtue of having played well in an England shirt recently and being next in line after Sheridan (he should have started ahead of Big Ted at the World Cup). He needs to hit his straps though and perform as Wood and Mullan are both in very good form this year.

Anyone else heard this rumour about Calum Clark being in the EPS? Maybe its because he is the lineout skipper at Saints? LK/BR cover

be very suprised if he is included

Dowson would be a very unhappy boy I'd imagine...