HEC head-to-heads: Clermont Auvergne v Leicester

Arguably the choicest if the head-to-head fortnight contests - ASM currently 2nd in the T14 vs a resurgent Tigers.

Mouthwatering. Before the teams are announced, I'd guess a home win for both weekends with a LBP for the visitors is on the cards.

Leicester Tigers (v ASM Clermont Auvergne, Stade Marcel Michelin, Sunday 4pm local time, 3pm UK time)
15 Geordan Murphy (c)
14 Horacio Agulla
13 Matt Smith
12 Manu Tuilagi
11 Alesana Tuilagi
10 Toby Flood
9 Ben Youngs
1 Marcos Ayerza
2 George Chuter
3 Martin Castrogiovanni
4 Louis Deacon
5 George Skivington
6 Tom Croft
7 Julian Salvi
8 Thomas Waldrom

16 Rob Hawkins
17 Boris Stankovich
18 Dan Cole
19 Steve Mafi
20 Ed Slater
21 Sam Harrison
22 Billy Twelvetrees
23 Scott Hamilton


ASM Clermont Auvergne: 15 Lee Byrne, 14 Sitiveni Sivivatu, 13 Aurelien
Rougerie, 12 Wesley Fofana, 11 Julian Malzieu, 10 Brock James, 9 Morgan
Parra; 1 Lionel Faur4e, 2 Benjamin Kayser, 3 Davit Zirakashvili, 4
Julien Pierre, 5 Nathan Hines, 6 Gerhard Vosloo, 7 Alexandre Lapandry, 8
Julien Bonnaire. Reps: Ti'i Paulo, 17 Vincent Debaty, 18 Clement Ric,
19 Jamie Cudmore, 20 Elvis Vermeulen, 21 Kevin Senio, 22 David Skrela,
23 Regan King

I suspect that Clermont will beat tigers by >7pts this weekend.

While (assuming no silly last minute penalties Thomas!!) Tigers will beat Clermont by <7pts.

that would leave Clermont with an advantage over the weekend.

I hope I am wrong

Leicester will rue the opportunity missed to rack up a try bonus point vs Aironi. To make up for this the ideal situation for Tigers would be picking up a losing bonus point at Clermont and preventing Clermont the losing bonus point at home.

It's what you need to do for progress.

beshocked wrote:Leicester will rue the opportunity missed to rack up a try bonus point vs Aironi. To make up for this the ideal situation for Tigers would be picking up a losing bonus point at Clermont and preventing Clermont the losing bonus point at home.

It's what you need to do for progress.

That really only depends if Clermont are able to get a BP win over there. Aironi are not that bad a side at all and Clermont aren’t traditionally the best travelers.

This should be a cracking set of matches though, will be watching the score updates (if not the matches themselves) closely.

beshocked wrote:Leicester will rue the opportunity missed to rack up a try bonus point vs Aironi. To make up for this the ideal situation for Tigers would be picking up a losing bonus point at Clermont and preventing Clermont the losing bonus point at home.

It's what you need to do for progress.

beshocked,

That was the catalyst when I suggested that the Tigers' season might be over(?).

The structure of the Jeff is all wrong when it penalises the the strongest contributors to the Nation's cause - the meek inherit the Earth.

I think the Tigers need to get something from this game because they are in for a good old fashioned shellacking at Ravenhill in the new year....

Yes Leicester's season is over. Top of their HC group with 2 wins. 7th in the AP - 2 points off 3rd place. Tigers might as well stop playing now.

Yes we know you believe the AP is wrong.

Mickado Aironi are the weakest Rabo side. Leicester are generally a side which racks up numerous bonus points. Surprised they didnt in this case.

Leicester's fate is in their hands. Everything to play for still.

roddersm wrote:I think the Tigers need to get something from this game because they are in for a good old fashioned shellacking at Ravenhill in the new year....

I look forward to another fine display from Ferris getting in the wingers way, shutting down the channel and wandering into touch like he did at Welford road. We're bringing the 1 legged old lady again to neutralise Ferris at the breakdown again too!

Metal Tiger wrote:

roddersm wrote:I think the Tigers need to get something from this game because they are in for a good old fashioned shellacking at Ravenhill in the new year....

I look forward to another fine display from Ferris getting in the wingers way, shutting down the channel and wandering into touch like he did at Welford road. We're bringing the 1 legged old lady again to neutralise Ferris at the breakdown again too!

You have been warned metal tiger!

So long as it is not a Friday night game I will be going to Ravenhill.

LondonTiger wrote:So long as it is not a Friday night game I will be going to Ravenhill.

I think its a Saturday?

roddersm wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:So long as it is not a Friday night game I will be going to Ravenhill.

I think its a Saturday?

I hope so. on the ERC site the dates have yet to be confirmed.

beshocked wrote:Yes Leicester's season is over. Top of their HC group with 2 wins. 7th in the AP - 2 points off 3rd place. Tigers might as well stop playing now.

Yes we know you believe the AP is wrong.

Mickado Aironi are the weakest Rabo side. Leicester are generally a side which racks up numerous bonus points. Surprised they didnt in this case.

Leicester's fate is in their hands. Everything to play for still.

You do have to believe that the playoffs are worthy.

If each team played each other on an equal basis throughout the season, then there is no need ( ?)

Well, actually the record isn't broken - it keeps playing perfectly. It's just like some people prefer vinyl to CDs as they produce a more authentic sound.

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Manu-Tuilagi-gets-clear-play-Leicester-Tigers/story-14054718-detail/story.html

Manu is back! Guessing that Alesana will pick up a team ban so I'm expecting a team of;

1.Ayerza
2.Chuter
3.Castro (Cole played last weekend so on with the rotation)
4.Deacon
5.Skivington (Parling still injured)
6.Croft (hopefully over his knock)
7.Salvi
8.Waldrom
9.Youngs
10.Flood
11.Smith (been playing brilliantly and can play 11,12,13,14,15)
12.Twelvetrees
13.Manu
14.Agulla
15.Murphy

Bench; Stanko, Hawkins (Youngs injured), Cole, Mafi, Woods, Harrison, Staunton, Morris.

Harsh on Slater after his excellent skill to set up the winning try vs the Saints but Mafi was really on song and the option to have an additional fetcher on the bench (Woods) shouldn't be missed.

It's just like some people prefer vinyl to CDs as they produce a more authentic sound.

Isn't it they produce more reliabley high quality sound. The way digital encoding works means that the audio isn't recorded as it's natural wave or that was what I was taught at school anyway.

Sam,
I'd have Alesana at 11 with Smith on the bench.

It was on the assumption that Alesana will be banned. Otherwise I agree.

formerly known as Sam wrote:It was on the assumption that Alesana will be banned. Otherwise I agree.

I can't believe that Alesana will be banned. My fears are that Geordan and Agulla will (rightfully) be for the return match.

Clermont team should be close to that (taking into account last weekend team and form/injured players) :
1 Faure
2 Kayzer
3 Zirakshvili / Ric
4 Pierre
5 Hines
6 Bonnaire
7 White / Lapandry
8 Vosloo (if fit)
9 Parra
10 James
11 Malzieu (it would seem that Sitiveni Sivivatu is not HEC qualified!)
12 Fofana
13 Gougerie
14 Nakaitaci
15 Byrne

subs: Cudmore, Vermeulen, ti'i paulo, kotze, Rado, skrela ,king

players to watch: parra (excellent last weekend), Bonnaire (back to his worldcup form), Hines (very consistent since he got there) , Fofana and Vosloo (if match fit).
weaknesses: general form has been average but improving game after game, scrum will certainly be an area where leicester will target them.

cant wait for the AP/T14 double header this weekend (although I will focus more on Harlequins/Stade Toulousain).

roddersm wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:So long as it is not a Friday night game I will be going to Ravenhill.

I think its a Saturday?

Have to check the finances with 'She who must be obeyed' but I feel a weekend in Belfast coming on!

roddersm wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:So long as it is not a Friday night game I will be going to Ravenhill.

I think its a Saturday?

Not decided yet - wont be until after the 4th round of matches.

If this group is to be decided by bonus points Clermont have 2, Leicester and Ulster have 0.

On that basis I would have to make Clermont favourites
On the other hand Leicester still have both away games against the other 2 to try for a shock win, Clermont and Ulster only have one, so you could argue Leicester are favorites.
On the other hand you would fancy Ulster to win their next three games which would put them top going into the last weekend - on that basis you could argue Ulster are favourites

Bottom line is there is a hell of a lot of rugby to be played in this group yet. 4 of the 6 crunch games are still to be played

LT and rodders,

Try PMing each other please.

whocares wrote:Clermont team should be close to that (taking into account last weekend team and form/injured players) :
1 Faure
2 Kayzer
3 Zirakshvili / Ric
4 Pierre
5 Hines
6 Bonnaire
7 White / Lapandry
8 Vosloo (if fit)
9 Parra
10 James
11 Malzieu (it would seem that Sitiveni Sivivatu is not HEC qualified!)
12 Fofana
13 Gougerie
14 Nakaitaci
15 Byrne

subs: Cudmore, Vermeulen, ti'i paulo, kotze, Rado, skrela ,king

players to watch: parra (excellent last weekend), Bonnaire (back to his worldcup form), Hines (very consistent since he got there) , Fofana and Vosloo (if match fit).
weaknesses: general form has been average but improving game after game, scrum will certainly be an area where leicester will target them.

cant wait for the AP/T14 double header this weekend (although I will focus more on Harlequins/Stade Toulousain).

Sorry, just noticed you had mentioned him in the original post. Ignore!

I can't believe that Alesana will be banned. My fears are that Geordan and Agulla will (rightfully) be for the return match..

Not been cited at the same time as Ashton, makes me think they won't be.

It's a mean looking team Clermont have got, is there no room for Canale these days?

Portnoy wrote:LT and rodders,

Try PMing each other please.

About what?

Ulster. Wtf has that to do with ASM v Tigers apart from a secondary consideration ? (or was it MT I should have called?)

formerly known as Sam wrote:
It's a mean looking team Clermont have got, is there no room for Canale these days?

with Fofana playing more and more at centre and prospects like Mark bennet pushing, think Canale wont be there for long unfortunately whish is a shame as he's not worst than rougerie imo. heard he also wants to go back to italy: all good for the pro12.

Sorry Portnoy


I think you meant me & not LT

Surely Clermont have a better option for 10 than James! His nerves are shot for HEC rugby.

James lost the game for Clermont at Ravenhill - this is a big boost for Leicester

He no longer kicks at goal, so he is a darn sight better the Skrela. Of course if parra goes off....

Seeing as Alex Tuilagis red card has been deemed as suffucient punishment he will be available for the double header. Retrospective yellow cards for Geordan and Horacio mean that for the first time this season we may be close to putting out a full 1st choice XV.

We still have Parling, Tait & T Youngs out injured but we are getting pretty close.

1. Ayerza
2. Chuter
3. Castro
4. Deacon
5. Skivington
6. Croft
7. Salvi
8. Waldrom
9. Youngs
10. Flood
11. A Tuilagi
12. Smith
13. M Tuilagi
14. Agulla
15. Murphy

Bench could be picked from any of Stanko, Slater, Hawkins, Cole, Mafi, Woods, Harrison, Twelvetrees, Morris and is going to be pretty impressive.

For the first time in a while I'm starting to feel some confidence going into this weeks game and I am...

...starting to believe!!

An HEC away win for TTTIIIIGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRSSSSSSS!!!!!

I suspect for the first leg we will see 36 at 12 and Smith on the wing.
Staunton will be on the bench.

It had to happen sometime, but finally Geordan is beginning to show signs of his age and is consequently looking beyond his best before date.

When will Tait be fit?

As Sam said earlier Smith has been playing well for us and can slot in anywhere. 36 or Smith at 12 is good. Agulla might well end up on the bench which would be a shame because he too has been doing some good stuff.

But isn't it great now that we are not saying ''who is left that can play at 12?" and are now in the realms of "Oh bugger... I've got 3 to pick from for 12?"



Clermont team looks pretty good but I think we may edge them here... God this is going to be a good game!!

well looks like ERC just announced that Sivivatu is now qualified to play in the HEC

We still have Parling, Tait & T Youngs out injured but we are getting pretty close

As well as Tony Allen.

36 or Smith at 12 is good

Nah, 36 at 12 or move Manu to 12 and put Smith at 13. Smith is not an inside centre as he never passes. He filled the role admirably when we were stuffed for choices but those games also showed absolutely nil creation in the backline.

It had to happen sometime, but finally Geordan is beginning to show signs of his age and is consequently looking beyond his best before date.

He ain't done yet but he has seen better days. Either this season or next will be his last, then he'll be coaching the backs.

'Upgraded' to poll.

My 22:

(actually Sam's - just edited)

1.Ayerza
2.Chuter
3.Cole
4.Deacon
5.Skivington
6.Croft
7.Salvi
8.Waldrom
9.Youngs
10.Flood
11.A Tuillagi
12.Twelvetrees
13.Manu
14.Agulla
15.Murphy

Bench; Stanko, Hawkins (Youngs injured), Castro, Mafi, Woods, Harrison, Staunton, Hamilton.

(p.s what has happened to the overstrike option? *

My changes italicised,

*oops it appears in the edit option but not on the quote one.

formerly known as Sam wrote:It was on the assumption that Alesana will be banned. Otherwise I agree.

Since Alesana has had no further action taken against him, I would be amazed if Cockers jeapordised the team's chances in such an important match by banning him, or Murphy and Agulla for that matter.

I didn't expect Cockerill to ban any of them, I expected the RFU to ban Alesana in the usual "he's a Tigers player, throw the book at him".

Portnoy, why Hamilton on the bench? His form has been decidely iffy all season where as the utility option Smith has been in great recent form and has shown more than a little committment (considering it's Dosser's son that's not entire unexpected). I'd have him in, particularly as Clermont are a physical team and Hamilton has looked dodgey in defence (massive hit vs Saints apart) where as Smith has been a machine in that area of late.

Otherwise your team looks good. Cole and Castro are both playing well (maybe Cole has the upper hand for once), whether they rotate or not I don't mind.

formerly known as Sam wrote:I didn't expect Cockerill to ban any of them, I expected the RFU to ban Alesana in the usual "he's a Tigers player, throw the book at him".

Portnoy, why Hamilton on the bench? His form has been decidely iffy all season where as the utility option Smith has been in great recent form and has shown more than a little committment (considering it's Dosser's son that's not entire unexpected). I'd have him in, particularly as Clermont are a physical team and Hamilton has looked dodgey in defence (massive hit vs Saints apart) where as Smith has been a machine in that area of late.

Otherwise your team looks good. Cole and Castro are both playing well (maybe Cole has the upper hand for once), whether they rotate or not I don't mind.

Because or the flexibility in the back division.

If Flood gets injured, 36 can step up.

If a winger gets injured Geordan steps in.

Hamilton just nudges the back six up a post. And all the incumbents are capable of nudging up a slot.

Not as bad as when the Saints fielded Pisi at FB...

Just my opinion but Cole is playing better than Castro at the moment - but I would rotate them. So as Cole started v Saints I would start Castro this weekend and Cole next.

Tigers have gone big and direct for this one.

Leicester Tigers (v ASM Clermont Auvergne, Stade Marcel Michelin, Sunday 4pm local time, 3pm UK time)
15 Geordan Murphy (c)
14 Horacio Agulla
13 Matt Smith
12 Manu Tuilagi
11 Alesana Tuilagi
10 Toby Flood
9 Ben Youngs
1 Marcos Ayerza
2 George Chuter
3 Martin Castrogiovanni
4 Louis Deacon
5 George Skivington
6 Tom Croft
7 Julian Salvi
8 Thomas Waldrom

16 Rob Hawkins
17 Boris Stankovich
18 Dan Cole
19 Steve Mafi
20 Ed Slater
21 Sam Harrison
22 Billy Twelvetrees
23 Scott Hamilton

ASM Clermont Auvergne: 15 Lee Byrne, 14 Sitiveni Sivivatu, 13 Aurelien Rougerie, 12 Wesley Fofana, 11 Julian Malzieu, 10 Brock James, 9 Morgan Parra; 1 Lionel Faur4e, 2 Benjamin Kayser, 3 Davit Zirakashvili, 4 Julien Pierre, 5 Nathan Hines, 6 Gerhard Vosloo, 7 Alexandre Lapandry, 8 Julien Bonnaire. Reps: Ti'i Paulo, 17 Vincent Debaty, 18 Clement Ric, 19 Jamie Cudmore, 20 Elvis Vermeulen, 21 Kevin Senio, 22 David Skrela, 23 Regan King

formerly known as Sam wrote:Tigers have gone big and direct for this one.

Looking at the lineups so have CA. They have a lot of big strike runners in that back division and a very soldi front 5. Nice to see Manu at 1, I think that is his long term position. All in all though I fear for us on Saturday.

It's a fantastically strong line up for the french. I wish we had their kind of spending power! In the cold hard light of day (after I have taken off my tiger specs) I think we are in for a very hard day at the office.

If we get the LPB I think we will have done well.

A LBP looks the best hope.

The bookies see it a bit of a one-way street:

winner
http://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/club-rugby/heineken-cup/clermont-v-leicester/winner

margin
http://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/club-rugby/heineken-cup/clermont-v-leicester/winning-margin

Well having seen Toulouse yesterday and Castre today, I am seriousley worried we may get a thumping.

LondonTiger wrote:Well having seen Toulouse yesterday and Castre today, I am seriousley worried we may get a thumping.

maybe you should watch racing - london irish highlights: it would cheer you up!

I still see a fair possibility of a LBP tomorrow.

It imperative that Geordan plays a blinder. But he's losing it a bit.

If we need Geordan to play a blinder to secure an LBP then I reckon we are in trouble. The hard work will come up front. George Chuter and Tom Croft are critical for me. We have to be secure on our own line out and try to pinch some of theirs.