Richie Gray signs for Sale Sharks

by Cumbrian Tue 08 Nov 2011, 8:57 am

First topic message reminder :

http://www.salesharks.com/RugbyNewsDetail/article/2509449/name/Scots%20star%20Richie%20Gray%20signs%20for%20Sharks

Thoughts?

by Tattie Scones RRN Tue 08 Nov 2011, 2:24 pm

Welshmushroom wrote:The answer to why they have not kicked is partly due to inferior thinking.I hope Wales have turned the corner after the WC and players go back to their regions realizing that they have nothing to fear.

If truth be told, we seem to look up to these sides. The Irish don't fear them at all. They respect them but certanly French and English rugby holds no fears for them. If anything English and French teams are threatened by Irish sides. The other Rabbo sides need to start doing the same.

The one thing though that is clear. You wont buy success. Ethos, structure, unity, limited game time, facilties & developement are usually a root case of success in Rugby.

In truth Scottish rugby probably needs to look at facilities, stadiums & development path ways before player retention can be affored at any rate.

Inferior thinking in some part, yes. We don't have the right people in charge at the SRU but that is down to them, not the players. If you worked as a pilot for easyjet (other budget airlines are available) and British Airways came in offering the same job for £200k a year more, what would you do? The same as everyone would - take it.

Regardless of what you think, having just two pro teams in Scotland is not sustainable to cater for all the pro players available. Players like Gray, Brown, Stroks, Hamilton etc etc moving to another league ensures fringe players getting exposure to top class rugby which in turn, benefits the national team.

You say you can't buy success? I disagree - it certainly helps anyway. Just ask the English Premier League Champions elect Man City. Or pretty much any of the top teams in any league in any sport. Pure coincidence that they have more money than the rest? I don't think so.

Anyway, good luck to Richie - I'm sure he'll be a great success in England.

by Tattie Scones RRN Tue 08 Nov 2011, 2:29 pm

Welshmushroom wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
Kingshu wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
Kingshu wrote:I wonder why he was so keen on leaving if they tried to keep him,
surly a Glasgow born and bred person should want above all to play for Glasgow!

One of the important things about growing a team, is pride in the shirt, wouldBestFerris want to leave Ulster, POC Munster etc etc

If your local team can match your ambition, why would you want to move, it's simply Glasgow don't seam capable of matching that ambition.

and Tattie scone rrn
"Have you seriously just said that......Glasgow and Edinburgh bring no star quality to the league but the Italians do??

Quite possibly the funniest comment I've ever read on here."

It's only the Italian teams second year in the league, and for one the second year of it's existance, but already they are proving more ambitious than the Scots.

Kingshu - I'm afraid that you're going to have to justify what you mean by "more ambitious".

Because as a generalisation, that's unquantifiable doo-doo unfortunately.

Are Welsh clubs less "ambitious" because Philips, Hook and Byrne are all now playing in France?

Easy one this, Ospreys lost players to some of the top teams in France, Glasgow and Edinburgh are losing their players to middle clubs in England, they should be able to ward of the advances of middlle clubs, but accept that they will lose out to the big rich teams.

The Italian sides are keeping hold of players, and trying to bring home the best Italian players they can.
The Scottish sides don't keep hold of their players too well, and don't try to bring back international players.
Therefore it is fair to conclude that the Itailian teams are more ambitious.
You can also add what Welshmushroom says

I don't recall any Jeff or Magners club following over themselves to sign any Italian players over the past three years. Nobody else was even in for Castrogiovanni at the time.

So I'm trying to think of ways in which that could be a larger pile of cobblers. But I'm struggling.

Do you even follow the Rabbo, carling?

Erm Castro was being chased down by several French clubs and several other leading European clubs. The Salary he was commanding was pricing about 75% of the teams out just at entry level.

Secondly Rabbo sides are limited with Foreign players. Welsh, Irish & Italian sides cant just buy anyone they like. Each has to answer to their respective Unions for inclusion of Foreigners. A Italian playing for say Munster is still classed as a Foreigner. This makes them less appealing as given the choice between a SH counterpart they will go that way every time.

Thirdly - nobody is stating anything about Italian Players currently being better players. But what we are saying is that given that 95% of the Italian National side is now plying their trade in the Rabbo and given time and experience in the league they may very well do. Treviso are already making big strides.
The main thing though is that by retaining their Internationals it will become more apealing to watch and thus growing the fan base which the league needs.

Its not just the home attendances either. People from other teams get increased attendances when top sides turn up.

I'd also like to point out that sides like Munster, Leinster & Ospreys have much bigger squads. I count the unofficial squad at the Ospreys at over 60+ players. They can really look after their star assets and force real competition within their squads. Thats how to get better. Not by trying to go through the season with 30 players in a squad.

That must be why they are one of the most dominant teams in the NH.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 08 Nov 2011, 2:54 pm

The real story: Gray to leave Warriors - as already indicated the SRU made every effort to keep Gray

by Shifty Tue 08 Nov 2011, 2:57 pm

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_7298311,00.html

Sale Sharks have secured a major transfer coup by swooping to seal the signature of exciting young Scotland lock Richie Gray.

Currently with Glasgow Warriors, the 2.10m tall blond bomber has established himself over the past year as one of the Northern Hemisphere's most exciting young forward talents.

The Sharks faced fierce competition from Aviva Premiership rivals Bath and Saracens, Glasgow themselves as well as three top French clubs to sigh the 22-year-old.

But in the end, Gray penned a three-year deal with Sale which will start in June 2012.

He will become the latest in a number of top Scottish players to join Sale and will link up with compatriots Fraser McKenzie, Richie Vernon and Alasdair Dickinson at Edgeley Park.

And as he expressed his delight at the marquee signing, Sale boss Steve Diamond also revealed that he had secured an agreement for a second world class forward to commit to Sale to back up Gray's capture.

"Richie is the first to be announced of two who have already agreed to join us," said the Sharks executive director of sport.

"Richie is only 22 but has the makings of a world class forward and he has been courted by a number of Premiership clubs and several French clubs.

"But he has bought into our vision at Sale Sharks and wants to spend the next part of his career in Manchester."

Gray has won 16 caps so far for Scotland and played in every game in the recent World Cup.

News of the latest transfer coup by Diamond will come as the perfect tonic for the club after what has been a tough few weeks following successive Premiership losses to Leicester and Saracens.

It will also provide everyone at the club with a timely fillip ahead of this weekend's testing opening Amlin Cup fixture away at French club Brive.

"Our toughest two weeks are now over but we've now got to make sure we go into the next period of league games ensuring that we iron out those little errors," the Sharks boss added.

"The aim now with all the guys back from the World Cup is to get everyone bedded in properly and get some consistency going into the next set of games."

by Guest Tue 08 Nov 2011, 2:59 pm

merging this thread with one put up earlier

by Shifty Tue 08 Nov 2011, 3:01 pm

Sorry

by Comfort Tue 08 Nov 2011, 3:04 pm

I absolutely agree its a huge loss for Glasgow, Gray's fast becoming one of the best locks in the NH (one of my favourites anyway). However, as someone else has mentioned while he was away with Scotland at the world-cup, his replacement was very decent.

The SRU have a balancing act to do, and they do it by using this example of Gray as one for the kids to follow I guess.

1. Hes come up through the academy
2. Hes played well for Glasgow
3. He's being picked to start for Scotland at a young age
4. He's moved to another league (just over the border) to earn more cash (even at sale!) and further improve in another league and culture (possibly).
5. He'll keep getting picked for Scotland and his choice of club wont (clauses expected) hamper his international career.
6. A second row spot at Glasgow has been opened from which they will no doubt develop another young Scottish player.

Surely, that's a job being done well by SRU standards and a chance to show all the young Scottish kids out there what can await them should they have enough potential and the willingness to apply themselves.

Glasgow lose out, but as I said, the SRU have to look at international level success as that is where they will attract more moolah from fans. Success at international level tends to bring more money and interest, something the SRU doesnt have a great deal of at the moment, money and interest.

I could be horribly wrong, but thats why I think this is a good move for all involved, bar Glasgow, but they fall under the SRU i guess so its swings and roundabouts!

mo1

by Kingshu Tue 08 Nov 2011, 3:13 pm

George Carlin wrote:
Kingshu wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
Kingshu wrote:I wonder why he was so keen on leaving if they tried to keep him,
surly a Glasgow born and bred person should want above all to play for Glasgow!

One of the important things about growing a team, is pride in the shirt, wouldBestFerris want to leave Ulster, POC Munster etc etc

If your local team can match your ambition, why would you want to move, it's simply Glasgow don't seam capable of matching that ambition.

and Tattie scone rrn
"Have you seriously just said that......Glasgow and Edinburgh bring no star quality to the league but the Italians do??

Quite possibly the funniest comment I've ever read on here."

It's only the Italian teams second year in the league, and for one the second year of it's existance, but already they are proving more ambitious than the Scots.

I'm not saying that the Italian players are better, they do have some very good players though, Scotland don't have that many great players either TBH.

lets look at it your way then selling players to bring youth through, do you think Leinster would have 2 h-cups, celtic league trophies and average 17,000 a game, if as soon as BoD Horgan, Hickie, Sexton etc looked good they sold them to bring through younger players?
The answer is no, if Glasgow want to compete and grow crowds, they have to keep their best players and add quality (which the Italians are trying to do).

Ok so they can't keep them all the Scottish players in the 2 clubs, however it's the first XV that they should be keeping, so the younger players have better players to learn from, not letting the first XV go abroad and having the 2nd XV in Scotland, this doesn't benefit Scottish rugby, as the clubs will then struggle to grow.

Kingshu - I'm afraid that you're going to have to justify what you mean by "more ambitious".

Because as a generalisation, that's unquantifiable doo-doo unfortunately.

Are Welsh clubs less "ambitious" because Philips, Hook and Byrne are all now playing in France?

Easy one this, Ospreys lost players to some of the top teams in France, Glasgow and Edinburgh are losing their players to middle clubs in England, they should be able to ward of the advances of middlle clubs, but accept that they will lose out to the big rich teams.

The Italian sides are keeping hold of players, and trying to bring home the best Italian players they can.
The Scottish sides don't keep hold of their players too well, and don't try to bring back international players.
Therefore it is fair to conclude that the Itailian teams are more ambitious.
You can also add what Welshmushroom says

I don't recall any Jeff or Magners club following over themselves to sign any Italian players over the past three years. Nobody else was even in for Castrogiovanni at the time.

So I'm trying to think of ways in which that could be a larger pile of cobblers. But I'm struggling.

by **George Carlin** Tue 08 Nov 2011, 3:16 pm

Welshmushroom wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
Kingshu wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
Kingshu wrote:I wonder why he was so keen on leaving if they tried to keep him,
surly a Glasgow born and bred person should want above all to play for Glasgow!

One of the important things about growing a team, is pride in the shirt, wouldBestFerris want to leave Ulster, POC Munster etc etc

If your local team can match your ambition, why would you want to move, it's simply Glasgow don't seam capable of matching that ambition.

and Tattie scone rrn
"Have you seriously just said that......Glasgow and Edinburgh bring no star quality to the league but the Italians do??

Quite possibly the funniest comment I've ever read on here."

It's only the Italian teams second year in the league, and for one the second year of it's existance, but already they are proving more ambitious than the Scots.

Kingshu - I'm afraid that you're going to have to justify what you mean by "more ambitious".

Because as a generalisation, that's unquantifiable doo-doo unfortunately.

Are Welsh clubs less "ambitious" because Philips, Hook and Byrne are all now playing in France?

Easy one this, Ospreys lost players to some of the top teams in France, Glasgow and Edinburgh are losing their players to middle clubs in England, they should be able to ward of the advances of middlle clubs, but accept that they will lose out to the big rich teams.

The Italian sides are keeping hold of players, and trying to bring home the best Italian players they can.
The Scottish sides don't keep hold of their players too well, and don't try to bring back international players.
Therefore it is fair to conclude that the Itailian teams are more ambitious.
You can also add what Welshmushroom says

I don't recall any Jeff or Magners club following over themselves to sign any Italian players over the past three years. Nobody else was even in for Castrogiovanni at the time.

So I'm trying to think of ways in which that could be a larger pile of cobblers. But I'm struggling.

Do you even follow the Rabbo, carling?

Erm Castro was being chased down by several French clubs and several other leading European clubs. The Salary he was commanding was pricing about 75% of the teams out just at entry level.

Secondly Rabbo sides are limited with Foreign players. Welsh, Irish & Italian sides cant just buy anyone they like. Each has to answer to their respective Unions for inclusion of Foreigners. A Italian playing for say Munster is still classed as a Foreigner. This makes them less appealing as given the choice between a SH counterpart they will go that way every time.

Thirdly - nobody is stating anything about Italian Players currently being better players. But what we are saying is that given that 95% of the Italian National side is now plying their trade in the Rabbo and given time and experience in the league they may very well do. Treviso are already making big strides.
The main thing though is that by retaining their Internationals it will become more apealing to watch and thus growing the fan base which the league needs.

Its not just the home attendances either. People from other teams get increased attendances when top sides turn up.

I'd also like to point out that sides like Munster, Leinster & Ospreys have much bigger squads. I count the unofficial squad at the Ospreys at over 60+ players. They can really look after their star assets and force real competition within their squads. Thats how to get better. Not by trying to go through the season with 30 players in a squad.

It's "Carlin" actually, but that couldn't be less important (unless you have an interest in one of the finest stand-ups in history).

Yes, I do follow the Rabo, Premiership and Top 14 quite closely. The point that a number of posters here are making (which gets lost if you deal in absolutes and hyperbole) is that there are a dozen reasons why players leave clubs and are signed by others and most of them are financial and have little or anything to do with a club's aspirations. This is the point I was making about Castro - only a handful could afford him if you believe the scuttlebutt. That does not make the other clubs that were interested in him less 'ambitious'.

If what you mean is that Italian clubs are keen to retain their internationals, then I totally agree but as you yourself say, this means nothing more than this is the best way of having a serviceable number of squad players used to playing at a higher standard. There is nothing that you can do about the rules of your own domestic RFU.

If you knew anything about a club like Glasgow, you would know that Sean Lineen is well regarded for spotting and bringing on young players locally and has built squads and found some real talent (the Evans brothers, Weir, Gray, Budgie, Jackson, Harley). The key is that there are some talented second rows ready to take over from Gray and Kellock - it does not mean that a club lacks ambition if they fail to keep stars (this is largely outwith their control and often does depend on money) - Lineen still wants the team to succeed and is happy with his young squad. Who is the only side to have beaten Leinster and the Ospreys this season?

I would think you have a good point if the average Italian player is better than the average Scottish one, but that's currently not the case. So I don't. If on the other hand, your point is that the Ospreys are awesome and that Welsh rugby is the finest in the known universe (etc, etc, snore) and you'd very much like to shoehorn this into a thread that doesn't really relate to it, then fill your boots.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 08 Nov 2011, 3:33 pm

Fantastic, GC

by RuggerRadge2611 Tue 08 Nov 2011, 4:03 pm

Post of the day Carling..... I mean Carlin. Wink

by Welshmushroom Tue 08 Nov 2011, 4:09 pm

Erm I'm a Dragons fan so I would hardly say I'm bigging up the Ospreys. Secondly I have never stated Welsh rugby is great. We have problems just like everyone else.

What I am illusatrating with sides like Leinster, Ospreys and Munster is that their success is built on Large squads which requires both youth and experience.

You also again bring the playing front up. Again so we are clear,
all I am saying is having your big name players leave damages you commercial viability. It never impacts the Die hard fans who will go watch team through thick and thin. But at a time when Rabbo sides need to grow support in order for the League to grow and develop this damages Glasgows marketibilty and the matches it takes part in.

Rightly or wrongly the paying Joe Public dont want to see 15 people they never have heard of. Dont underestimate the walk in public have on the game and without them the Rabbo wont grow.

by **RDW** Tue 08 Nov 2011, 4:17 pm

Carlin - I think the appropriate phrase is In Your Face!! clap

by Tattie Scones RRN Tue 08 Nov 2011, 5:01 pm

Mushroom

Seriously pal, why on earth do you keep mentioning the Ospreys in the same breath as Leinster and Munster with regards to success??

It's like comparing Saracens and Toulouse with Glasgow Hawks.

by Welshmushroom Tue 08 Nov 2011, 6:29 pm

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Mushroom

Seriously pal, why on earth do you keep mentioning the Ospreys in the same breath as Leinster and Munster with regards to success?? .

Erm simple really because those 3 sides have dominated the Rabbo Direct in the last 10 Seasons as winners (Ospreys won 3, Munster 3, Leinster 2) which is relevant as my comments have been based around the Rabbo Pro 12.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:It's like comparing Saracens and Toulouse with Glasgow Hawks.

Not at all. For one thing all the teams I grouped play in the same League and have shared equal domestic success. You on the other hand pulled 3 sides out of the bag that dont compete in the same league. Secondly I would question the grouping of Tolouse and Saracens. Tolouse has about a 4 times bigger playing budget than Saracens and is World's apart from Saracens in terms of any other success rate. They have won substantially more HC Titles & Domestic Honours. Saracens on the other hand have achieved................ Doh

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 08 Nov 2011, 6:33 pm

....... (let me help you, mushroom) Domestic honours. No charge

by funnyExiledScot Tue 08 Nov 2011, 6:53 pm

I'm sad to see Richie Gray go, and I had hoped he'd do another two years at Glasgow taking him up to 24, still short of the typical second row forwards peak, but even the most ardent of Glasgow fans would have to admit that this loss was inevitable.

I think Gray could genuinely be one of the great lock forwards of his generation.

As for the choice of Sale, personally I think it's an interim club for him. Not sure how long the contract is but even if 4 years, he'll only be 26 at completion. By then we'll know if he's as good as we hope he can be, and at that stage I suspect one of the bigger European clubs will come knocking (if indeed Sale haven't reached that summit by then).

It's not far from Scotland for training camps either and he'll be with Dickinson, McKenzie and Vernon, players he'll know. He should be able to settle well there I think, so whilst I think he could have basically gone anywhere, selfishly I'm pleased it's a club like Sale where hopefully he'll have been able to name his release terms.

I'm also pleased to hear that Glasgow did everything in their power to keep him. As ASBO noted above, young McAlpine is in Gilchrist's generation and got some good reviews at the JWC. More a 5 than a 4 so there are integration issues with Kellock there, but if the new Gray is in the mould of his brother then I'm sure those two can understudy to Ryder and Kellock.

Let's hope Gray puts in some monster performances for Glasgow between now and the end of the season, starting with sticking Attwood in his back pocket this coming weekend.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 08 Nov 2011, 6:57 pm

I should also add that had Richie Gray gone to the Ospreys I'd personally have hunted down his agent and shot him. Such an easily detestable side.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 08 Nov 2011, 7:25 pm

but what do you really think fES?!

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Tue 08 Nov 2011, 8:08 pm

Lineen should drop the greedy, ungrateful Muppet for Sunday's game !

by Imperialbigdave Tue 08 Nov 2011, 9:20 pm

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Lineen should drop the greedy, ungrateful Muppet for Sunday's game !

I hardly think hes going to be earning big bucks at sale of all places. Theres obviously something happening at that club that agents are seeing and were not.

by justified sinner Tue 08 Nov 2011, 9:45 pm

Not sure he's anywhere near the player some people think he is yet. Scruming is poor, fabulous in the loose, and good in the lineout, but still some way to go. Some good young guys coming through at Glasgow, so not a big loss. Hopefully will toughen up in the AP and learn to scrum.

by DaveM Tue 08 Nov 2011, 10:46 pm

Excellent signing for Sale, who recruited well in the summer but who lack a bit of bulk in the pack. Sale are an ambitious club, if they aren't top 6 this season I'm sure they will be next season. Now they need to find a world class TH and they'll be a serious proposition.

As for why Gray joined Sale, they are potentially a huge club. As a young man why not join a club trying to make a mark in a league you've never played in, rather than joining a club in the same league?

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 09 Nov 2011, 5:49 am

Agreed, Dave, especially as he has at least one more move in him should the club's ambitions not match his

by Glas a du Wed 09 Nov 2011, 6:48 am

You are putting a brave face on all of this Asbo. Is that the true Gent talking or do you know something we don't?

by **RDW** Wed 09 Nov 2011, 7:00 am

According to the Scotsman he was offered 300k by Glasgow, and has moved to Sale for less!

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/club-rugby/blow_for_sru_as_role_model_richie_gray_rejects_300k_offer_and_joins_sale_1_1954809

Fair play to the guy - it obviously wasn't about the money!

by Glas a du Wed 09 Nov 2011, 7:08 am

You get one career. Ian Rush and Michael Owen were born in the same place. Rush chose Wales, Owen England. Rush never graced the major championships, but Owen did. Who was right? Jonathan Davies never played for the Lions, Shane Williams did. Jiffy is the "best outside half not to have a Lions cap" Shane had "a disappointing Lions tour". However if the players don't think the Scotish regions are up to it, what hope do they have?

by **George Carlin** Wed 09 Nov 2011, 7:23 am

FES - he's on a three year contract with the Sharks from June 2012.

In addition to three Top 14 clubs, apparently the two other Prermiership clubs who were chasing hard were Saracens and Bath.

by Glas a du Wed 09 Nov 2011, 7:38 am

He's gone for the shorter trip home hasn't he.

by Glas a du Wed 09 Nov 2011, 7:41 am

The guy will be a folk hero wherever he goes in my opinion.

by Tattie Scones RRN Wed 09 Nov 2011, 9:27 am

Welshmushroom wrote:
Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Mushroom

Seriously pal, why on earth do you keep mentioning the Ospreys in the same breath as Leinster and Munster with regards to success?? .

Erm simple really because those 3 sides have dominated the Rabbo Direct in the last 10 Seasons as winners (Ospreys won 3, Munster 3, Leinster 2) which is relevant as my comments have been based around the Rabbo Pro 12.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:It's like comparing Saracens and Toulouse with Glasgow Hawks.

Not at all. For one thing all the teams I grouped play in the same League and have shared equal domestic success. You on the other hand pulled 3 sides out of the bag that dont compete in the same league. Secondly I would question the grouping of Tolouse and Saracens. Tolouse has about a 4 times bigger playing budget than Saracens and is World's apart from Saracens in terms of any other success rate. They have won substantially more HC Titles & Domestic Honours. Saracens on the other hand have achieved................

Well in that case I apologies Mushroom - consider myself telt!

back on track though, I wonder what really has lured Gray to Sale if it wasn't the money. I'd say he has a special get out clause should the target(s) Sale have set themselves to convince him to join might be in his contract.

In a way it's pleaseing to know that so many English and French teams regard a lot of our players with such high regard.

Our forwards anyway...

by Dorothy_Mantooth Wed 09 Nov 2011, 9:57 am

Lets hope the £300k money will now be re-invested in the Glasgow team for next season. We could seriously strengthen the squad, by bringing in two or three proven performers.

Would loved Richie to have signed one more contract at Glasgow before his move.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 09 Nov 2011, 10:28 am

I hope the posters that have been pointing fingers at the SRU of not doing enough in this case to protect the value of the 'Rabo12' brand will take note - it is absolutely clear that they did pretty much everything possible (shy of declaring independence and revoking his passport) to keep Richie in Scotland

by Guest Wed 09 Nov 2011, 10:35 am

As, I agree with you. If we (as a collective in the Magners/Rabo) can't keep our players with big money then what will keep them???

Do you think he might have been persuaded to stay if Scotland had a policy at interntaional level of only picking those playing at home (like New Zealand do)? (by the way, I don't think this should be your policy as with only 2 pro sides you would be limiting your numbers, etc.)

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 09 Nov 2011, 10:41 am

Griff, think you've hit the nail on the head there, my friend - only 2 teams negates any possibility of running a playing-at-home-only policy.

I think more important news is the new contracts signed by a number of very talented existing youngsters at Glasgow: Ryan Wilson, Chris Fusaro, Ryan Grant, Robert Harley, Ruaridh Jackson and Duncan Weir have all signed extensions.

PS You coming down for the Amlin game at Sandy Park? There's a load of us going if you need somewhere to crash/want me to get you a tkt?

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 09 Nov 2011, 10:42 am

It is possible. Although Gray's move as I have stated before is a loss since he has become the poster boy for Scottish rugby but he has left big boots to fill in the Glasgow 2nd row for the "next" Richie Gray to fill.

Him moving on will be good for Sale since he is a fantastic player.

The move will be good for him because he will learn more from his new enviroment and his scrummaging and physical game I think will really pick up at his time there.

Sale have good relations with the SRU and have never with held Jason White when Scotland called on him.

It's good for Glasgow since they have talented youngsters waiting in the wings and the whopping Salary Gray was offered could cover 2-3 of the new youngsters with extra to spare.

It also means we can develop the new Talent for Glasgow and ultimatly Scotland.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 09 Nov 2011, 10:54 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:According to the Scotsman he was offered 300k by Glasgow, and has moved to Sale for less!

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/club-rugby/blow_for_sru_as_role_model_richie_gray_rejects_300k_offer_and_joins_sale_1_1954809

Fair play to the guy - it obviously wasn't about the money!

Nice one, RDW, here's what the Herald had to say: Richie Gray - I guess that there's at least one bonus out of all this publicity - at least folk will be able to spell his surname properly Wink

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 09 Nov 2011, 11:12 am

The Herald article raises interesting points about Barclay and Beattie. Both players who will both likely feel they can ply their trade in the Jeff or the super 14 or perhaps some of the bigger Pro12 guns.

Beattie seems to have lost his spark and I think a spell away in the more physical Jeff or the French League will suit his style of play better and we might see the wrecking machine of 2010 back. The article also pointed out he might move to the Burgh? I'm not sure what to make of that since Denton would be my 1st choice number 8 and they are similar players. I would hate for Beattie to move to Edinburgh and Denton's career stagnate....or vice versa.

As for Barclay as the article points out despite his talents his place at 7 is no longer secure at Glasgow or Scotland and perhaps he will seek to prove himself down south too.

Luckily Glasgow have the players to be able to replace these guys.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 09 Nov 2011, 11:21 am

Agreed, Radge, can't see Edinburgh wanting to give Beattie the game time to try and regain his mojo while keeping Denton and McInally on the sidelines - sounds like a bum rumour to me

More from the Herald: Herald 1 & Herald 2 - potential for other big-name signings at the two pro-districts

by **RDW** Wed 09 Nov 2011, 11:29 am

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Agreed, Radge, can't see Edinburgh wanting to give Beattie the game time to try and regain his mojo while keeping Denton and McInally on the sidelines - sounds like a bum rumour to me

More from the Herald: Herald 1 & Herald 2 - potential for other big-name signings at the two pro-districts

You need to register to read the full article and, as I am lazy, did they suggest any names or just say the money is there?

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 09 Nov 2011, 11:31 am

Just copy and paste it to a word document before the Registration prompt appears thumbsup

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 09 Nov 2011, 11:33 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Agreed, Radge, can't see Edinburgh wanting to give Beattie the game time to try and regain his mojo while keeping Denton and McInally on the sidelines - sounds like a bum rumour to me

More from the Herald: Herald 1 & Herald 2 - potential for other big-name signings at the two pro-districts

You need to register to read the full article and, as I am lazy, did they suggest any names or just say the money is there?

Just the money, RDW

by Dorothy_Mantooth Wed 09 Nov 2011, 11:43 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

As for Barclay as the article points out despite his talents his place at 7 is no longer secure at Glasgow or Scotland and perhaps he will seek to prove himself down south too.

I usually take with a pinch of salt what the Hearld comment on in terms of the Warriors and them suggesting that Barclay is no longer secure of his place at Glasgow confirms my doubt of their knowledge of the club.

Barclay is the nailed on starter at 7 for the Warriors.

In terms of new faces, Lineen was on the BBC saying he expects to announce new signings in the coming weeks and months. No mention of the standard of the new signings though.

by **RDW** Wed 09 Nov 2011, 12:00 pm

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

In terms of new faces, Lineen was on the BBC saying he expects to announce new signings in the coming weeks and months. No mention of the standard of the new signings though.

I'd be very surprised if anyone has heard of them, considering we are in the middle of the season! Unless some Tri nations players fancy playing for Glasgow...

by Guest Wed 09 Nov 2011, 12:15 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Griff, think you've hit the nail on the head there, my friend - only 2 teams negates any possibility of running a playing-at-home-only policy.

I think more important news is the new contracts signed by a number of very talented existing youngsters at Glasgow: Ryan Wilson, Chris Fusaro, Ryan Grant, Robert Harley, Ruaridh Jackson and Duncan Weir have all signed extensions.

PS You coming down for the Amlin game at Sandy Park? There's a load of us going if you need somewhere to crash/want me to get you a tkt?

As, thanks for the offer, that's very good of you. A few of us had been really looking forward to the game. We were going to stay with a mates brother who lives and works in Exeter, then the schedule was announced and we found out that the game was on Sunday at 6pm!!! We're still discussing it, but it now looks a bit less appealing unfortunately with work the next day Sad

We would have been happy with a Friday night, Saturday anytime or even Sunday day time at a push as we can make a weekend of it and have a night away, but I've got things on in work on the Monday so will have to drive/train back at 9ish on the Sunday. Bleeugh. I hope it's being televised, otherwise I can't see the point of putting the game at this time. It's not great for travelling fans!

by Kingshu Wed 09 Nov 2011, 12:25 pm

My prevous posts havn't been about the SRU not trying to keep Gray, teams lose players they want to keep sometimes (Ulster-Bowe), and they did try. My point isn't just they Gray case but overall Scotland loses to many of its top players.

I understand that Glasgow and Edindurgh fans say that losing an international gives a space for a young player to come though, and the international plays and learns abroad.

I think Scottish fans are resigned to this and try to look on the bright side of its better for Scotland, but is it really?

Would Leinster (since they are in same league) have won everything they have won, and get 15,000 fans at home games, if they let go of BoD, Hogan, Hickie, Sexton as soon as they were good, to bring youth through?

They answer is no, likewise the Scottish clubs will struggle for attendance, and abality to compete if they keep losing their best players.

This isn't just about Gray as the SRU tried to keep him and he left, happens every club, but is more about the overall loose of Scottish players.

You can say that they can't keep them all between 2 clubs, (Munster and Leinster provided the bulk of the Ireland team for years, but...) it's the standard of the players they lose which annoyes me.

Scotland lose most of their 1st XV players abroad, and the clubs are made up of the ones that remain, the 2nd XV and youth player. Scottish fans argue this is best for Scotlands future. I say it's not.

1) it should be most of the 1st XV that remains in Scotland, these are the quality players you want young players learning from, let the 2nd XV players go abroad as the new challange may improve them. (I don't think enough effort was made prev to keep them, but I think it may have changed).
2) If your best players are abroad they run the risk of burn out. Look how Scotland could rest it's home based players in th ebiuld up to the world cup, more players at home mean longer training camps and better tatics.
3) If you are going to market the clubs, you need players that are marketable, that means the best players Scotland produces playing for them.
4) Losing internationals and bringing forward young players into the first team may not be the best way. A young player may learn more training with top players and having to slowly earn the shirt playing in lower games and working his way up, over a few years, rather than being given a shirt and thrown in at the deep end, sink or swim.

The reason this fustrates me is with the Scottish teams only getting about 3500/4000 fans a game it brings down the appeal of the league, if these attendances could be boosted the sponsorship etc of the league would increase and so would the over all standard.
You may point out Connacht average less, but Irish and Welsh average is way above the Scottish average, The Italian average may be less than Scotlands but this is thier 2nd year to Scotlands 10th year.

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 09 Nov 2011, 12:36 pm

This is slightly off topic to be honest but I will comment.

If you have an Idea to boost attendences spit it out mate.

This topic has been done to death by Scottish posters here and on the old 606 and the truth is the SRU are doing stuff about it (Glasgow Moving to Scotstoun is a start) but these things take time.

The point you raise about keeping the 1st XV at home and letting the 2nd XV play abroad is just not workable. If a player playing abroad starts to out perform his counterpart playing for either Glasgow or Edinburgh what then? Do we propose a player trade with his club?

Untill Scotland get a 3rd pro team (which is not a financial or competative option at the moment) we'll have to make do with Edinburgh and Glasgow, and when these teams star players move on we have to take comfort that we have capable filling in for those who see their futures away from Scotland.

by Dorothy_Mantooth Wed 09 Nov 2011, 12:48 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

In terms of new faces, Lineen was on the BBC saying he expects to announce new signings in the coming weeks and months. No mention of the standard of the new signings though.

I'd be very surprised if anyone has heard of them, considering we are in the middle of the season! Unless some Tri nations players fancy playing for Glasgow...

It will be new signings who will be joining for the start of next year. Either way, I do agree that it will be someone we have never heard of.

by Rory_Gallagher Wed 09 Nov 2011, 12:57 pm

IMHO Scotland need to be harder on the players about who they play for and introduce the rule that only those playing for scottish teams can be eligible for International selection. I'm sure this may raise a few eyebrows, but really for scottish rugby to improve they need a hard edge and they need players to know they can't leave Scotland to play somewhere else if they want to play for them internationally.

NZ are a small country and they have this issued to their players. Obviously there is a huge gap in talent, but perhaps with this rule in place players would be more inclined to remain in Scotland and challenge for international recognition.

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 09 Nov 2011, 1:02 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:IMHO Scotland need to be harder on the players about who they play for and introduce the rule that only those playing for scottish teams can be eligible for International selection. I'm sure this may raise a few eyebrows, but really for scottish rugby to improve they need a hard edge and they need players to know they can't leave Scotland to play somewhere else if they want to play for them internationally.

NZ are a small country and they have this issued to their players. Obviously there is a huge gap in talent, but perhaps with this rule in place players would be more inclined to remain in Scotland and challenge for international recognition.

Not enough Pro Teams for Scotland to enforce such a rule.

by Sponsored content