ENG vs FRA - Match Thread - Team announcement, Chat & Banter etc...

[HERSH]

First topic message reminder :

Last 10 meetings

26 Feb 2011 England 17 - 9 France
20 Mar 2010 France 12 - 10 England
15 Mar 2009 England 34 - 10 France
23 Feb 2008 France 13 - 24 England
13 Oct 2007 France 9 - 14 England -RWC
18 Aug 2007 France 22 - 9 England
11 Aug 2007 England 15 - 21 France
11 Mar 2007 England 26 - 18 France
12 Mar 2006 France 31 - 6 England
13 Feb 2005 England 17 - 18 France

ENGLAND - 5 Wins - FRANCE - 5 Wins

England

1 Matt Stevens
2 Steve Thompson
3 Dan Cole
4 Louis Deacon
5 Tom Palmer
6 Tom Croft
7 Lewis Moody
8 Nick Easter
9 Ben Youngs
10 Jonny Wilkinson
11 Mark Cueto
12 Toby Flood
13 Manu Tuilagi
14 Chris Ashton
15 Ben Foden

Replacements

16 Dylan Hartley
17 Alex Corbisiero
18 Courtney Lawes
19 Simon Shaw
20 James Haskell
21 Richard Wigglesworth
22 Matt Banahan



France

1 Jean-Baptiste Poux
2 William Servat
3 Nicolas Mas
4 Pascal Pape
5 Lionel Nallet
6 Thierry Dusautoir
7 Julien Bonnaire
8 Imanol Harinordoquy
9 Dimitri Yachvili
10 Morgan Parra
11 Alexis Palisson
12 Maxime Mermoz
13 Aurélien Rougerie
14 Vincent Clerc
15 Maxime Médard

Replacements

16 Dimitri Szarzewski
17 Fabien Barcella
18 Julien Pierre
19 Louis Picamoles
20 Francois Trinh-Duc
21 David Marty
22 Cédric Heymans

[aitchw]

Well, they've finally stuttered to a loss. Well played France! You did what was needed.

So many things to say about the entire England WC performance just not in the mood for now. They gave the game to France with 2 soft tries.

Can get behind Wales now who should have no problem with this French side who won without any flair on show. Just hard grunt which Wales can handle.

Come on Boks! Don't spoil my entire weekend.

[tomathy]

we need a "Wells must go" campaign.

Only Wells? Who picks a 12 who can't break the gainline? Jonny - Flood is not Jonny - Catt and that is where it came from.

I thought flood had quite a good game to be honest. Made a few good breaks.

[trebellbobaggins]

I seriously hope Wales do it now.

Go Wales!

Most of my Cornish compatriots were behind you anyway, i'll be joining them now eng are out. Go local boy Luke! (from just down the road from me, the most local connection we have any in international side)

[Hood83]

Right, I'm with Wales if that's alright with you lads.

[Cymroglan]

England have leadership issues on and off the field.
Leaving your best player on the bench till it was too late was ridiculous.

[HammerofThunor]

Walsh seemed to have a good game. A little annoyed about a couple of calls but that's just normal bias from me. Fair play to the guy for turning himself around

[mystiroakey]

GG . I want wlaes to get to the final- hoever what a final france v NZ would be. Maybe we are all set up for the most fabulous choke of all time!

[Portnoy]

I have to say that If I have to: now support France.

But as I said earlier, performances like that only turn up occasionally.

Three in a row is almost almost inconceivable.

[Gatts]

Right, I'm with Wales if that's alright with you lads.

Everyone welcome....unless you're french

[Cumbrian]

Well done France.

Just left too much to do in the second half, France just out powered and out played. At least the lads restored a little face in the end. We've had enough joy in the World Cup in the past, it was going to run out eventually.

I would question why Stevens started at loosehead again, he's taken a shoeing in nearly every game in that position.

Where to now for England? Doe Johnson keep his job? Do we finally put the old boys out to pasture and start with a blank sheet? Lots of questions...

[radelven]

**cking atrocious!

The forwards were insipid from the start and the half backs were careless (that's not a selection pun). Tuilagi was one of the few players that had any purpose about them.

Johnson's selection continues to be way off. A number of those forwards had no right to be there. Ineffective at the set piece and the breakdown, where once again there was no ferocity. At the very least I want Wells ditched. That might be one of the few good things to come of this campaign.

[HammerofThunor]

England have leadership issues on and off the field.
Leaving your best player on the bench till it was too late was ridiculous.

+1

We're not picking the best players because we need experience/leadership and then not getting it

[Gatts]

Commiserations England.

[Guest]

absolutetly gutting, but we didnt deserve it all, france were the better side and we were generally poor.

[G2]

Ultimately not good enough, someone needs to tell them that the match starts at the beginning of the first half

[dogtooth]

bad luck england. the biggest problem for england is johnno. he created a very unstable camp. he did not give the players the best chance in this tournament. he should carry the can but i feel he will still be inpost come spring.

again, bad luck fellas

[trebellbobaggins]

it would be wonderful if he were.

I would love Wales to do it now. Come on boys.

[Taylorman]

Once again france are predictably unpredictable.
They have a habit of doing this. 87 Semi. 99, 07 and now 11 quarter.

[TheGreyGhost]

How much influence do you think the debacle in the RFU had on the team leading in to this? it seemed there were off the field discipline issues, possibly resulting the absence of Tindall and in my mind a poor decision of play Flood/Wilkinson in combination.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Allez les blues !

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

So according to Bell End Ryder everyone watching at home share their disappointment. Not in Scotland they are not- celebration time. Squirm on England - tee hee. Wales would have gubbed you anyway.

[PJHolybloke]

How much influence do you think the debacle in the RFU had on the team leading in to this? it seemed their were off the field discipline issues, possibly resulting the absence of Tindall and in my mind a poor decision of play Flood/Wilkinson in combination.

None TGG, the players just weren't good enough, some were, but as a team England just didn't have the right personnel to do a good job.

I don't think the off-field events had anything to do with it either, England were outplayed today in pretty much every facet of the game, the only bright star was Tuilagi - don't start - so there needs to be a rethink at every level of the England setup, Rob Andrew has some work to do, when he's finished with the demands regarding his chuffin contract that is.

From the coaching level through to the Saxons England need to start building something to compete in 2015, it just will not be acceptable to keep bumbling on as they are.

[PJHolybloke]

So according to Bell End Ryder everyone watching at home share their disappointment. Not in Scotland they are not- celebration time. Squirm on England - tee hee. Wales would have gubbed you anyway.

Thanks for making the effort lads.

[HammerofThunor]

France played really badly in a game that didn't matter. There was nothing unpredictable in their performance today.

Schizoid, yeah keep mocking England for getting further than Scotland.

[Cumbrian]

So according to Bell End Ryder everyone watching at home share their disappointment. Not in Scotland they are not- celebration time. Squirm on England - tee hee. Wales would have gubbed you anyway.

urine off little man, nobody cares what you think.

[TheGreyGhost]

How much influence do you think the debacle in the RFU had on the team leading in to this? it seemed their were off the field discipline issues, possibly resulting the absence of Tindall and in my mind a poor decision of play Flood/Wilkinson in combination.

None TGG, the players just weren't good enough, some were, but as a team England just didn't have the right personnel to do a good job.

I don't think the off-field events had anything to do with it either, England were outplayed today in pretty much every facet of the game, the only bright star was Tuilagi - don't start - so there needs to be a rethink at every level of the England setup, Rob Andrew has some work to do, when he's finished with the demands regarding his chuffin contract that is.

From the coaching level through to the Saxons England need to start building something to compete in 2015, it just will not be acceptable to keep bumbling on as they are.

Do you think MJ has been given too much authority? Perhaps SCW should have been brought in at the top level rather than pfaffing around with RA and a reshuffle of the board? Did they take their eyes off the ball at the crucial moment? When reflecting on England's worst performance in a world cup this millenium, how much of the blame do you think the RFU will apportion to their own self interested political schenanigans in WC year?

[HammerofThunor]

None

[trebellbobaggins]

nah i can't understand this rubbish from ITV.

They were poor, they are out. Move on and rebuild. End of.

Now shut up about them and look at Wales doing these Isles proud.

[TheGreyGhost]

Back luck England. I know what it feels like to go out to France in the Qfinal when you are the hot favourites. Seems tough that France have lost two matches in this cup and still make a semi. Where as England drop one and go out. I guess France just have that knock out rugby nous.

Classy GG, realclassy, you've been desperate to write that haven't you. Good luck for the pumas though, we're all rooting for you...honest

Great to hear It's always nice to get the extra support.

[PJHolybloke]

How much influence do you think the debacle in the RFU had on the team leading in to this? it seemed their were off the field discipline issues, possibly resulting the absence of Tindall and in my mind a poor decision of play Flood/Wilkinson in combination.

None TGG, the players just weren't good enough, some were, but as a team England just didn't have the right personnel to do a good job.

I don't think the off-field events had anything to do with it either, England were outplayed today in pretty much every facet of the game, the only bright star was Tuilagi - don't start - so there needs to be a rethink at every level of the England setup, Rob Andrew has some work to do, when he's finished with the demands regarding his chuffin contract that is.

From the coaching level through to the Saxons England need to start building something to compete in 2015, it just will not be acceptable to keep bumbling on as they are.

Do you think MJ has been given too much authority? Perhaps SCW should have been brought in at the top level rather than pfaffing around with RA and a reshuffle of the board? Did they take their eyes off the ball at the crucial moment? When reflecting on England's worst performance in a world cup this millenium, how much of the blame do you think the RFU will apportion to their own self interested political schenanigans in WC year?

Mate, seriously? The RFU shouldering any blame is just never going to happen. I would have preferred SCW to RA any day of the week but the blazers screwed that right up. I don't think MJ is up to the job in his current role, if any of his exploits as a player were going to make up for his lack of experience, you would have thought that his leadership qualities would have shone through, instead it appears that this was one of the areas England were most lacking.

Apart from the BS the players were responsible for in their down time, the inability to make a firm choice between Flood or Wilkinson suggests a certain lack of decisive thinking, and if you can't make decisions under pressure, you can't be a leader of men.

The RFU seem to exist in a bubble of their own self-importance, Francis Baron might be heading back to caretake at the top, and whilst he isn't the most progressive of people, he will at least bring a halt to the merry-go-round in the boardroom. Honestly, they're so self-absorbed they probably wont know England got bombed out till they read it in the morning papers.

[EnglishReign]

So according to Bell End Ryder everyone watching at home share their disappointment. Not in Scotland they are not- celebration time. Squirm on England - tee hee. Wales would have gubbed you anyway.

Don't celebrate too hard, it's hard enough reaching 50 in Glasgow as it is

[TheGreyGhost]

How much influence do you think the debacle in the RFU had on the team leading in to this? it seemed their were off the field discipline issues, possibly resulting the absence of Tindall and in my mind a poor decision of play Flood/Wilkinson in combination.

None TGG, the players just weren't good enough, some were, but as a team England just didn't have the right personnel to do a good job.

I don't think the off-field events had anything to do with it either, England were outplayed today in pretty much every facet of the game, the only bright star was Tuilagi - don't start - so there needs to be a rethink at every level of the England setup, Rob Andrew has some work to do, when he's finished with the demands regarding his chuffin contract that is.

From the coaching level through to the Saxons England need to start building something to compete in 2015, it just will not be acceptable to keep bumbling on as they are.

Do you think MJ has been given too much authority? Perhaps SCW should have been brought in at the top level rather than pfaffing around with RA and a reshuffle of the board? Did they take their eyes off the ball at the crucial moment? When reflecting on England's worst performance in a world cup this millenium, how much of the blame do you think the RFU will apportion to their own self interested political schenanigans in WC year?

Mate, seriously? The RFU shouldering any blame is just never going to happen. I would have preferred SCW to RA any day of the week but the blazers screwed that right up. I don't think MJ is up to the job in his current role, if any of his exploits as a player were going to make up for his lack of experience, you would have thought that his leadership qualities would have shone through, instead it appears that this was one of the areas England were most lacking.

Apart from the BS the players were responsible for in their down time, the inability to make a firm choice between Flood or Wilkinson suggests a certain lack of decisive thinking, and if you can't make decisions under pressure, you can't be a leader of men.

The RFU seem to exist in a bubble of their own self-importance, Francis Baron might be heading back to caretake at the top, and whilst he isn't the most progressive of people, he will at least bring a halt to the merry-go-round in the boardroom. Honestly, they're so self-absorbed they probably wont know England got bombed out till they read it in the morning papers.

Hah! We all suffer with our bureaucrats.

Definitely a game of two halves today. It looked to me like France tried to shut the game down. In the end they squeaked it, but largely through a few untimely English handling errors than any great defensive wall from the French.

[Hood83]

How much influence do you think the debacle in the RFU had on the team leading in to this? it seemed there were off the field discipline issues, possibly resulting the absence of Tindall and in my mind a poor decision of play Flood/Wilkinson in combination.

Very little i think. We don't have the players. And we picked poorly. Not having our best forward etc etc etc. Even with our strongest team out i think player for player we're beneath all the SH sides, Wales, France and Ireland. Our only strength is depth, but that's a depth of mediocrity.

All that said, if we ARE to be successful in future we need changes at the RFU. But we all know we're much better at shooting ourselves in the foot. We do have some good young players, i'd be tempted to try out a load and see who look up to it.

[super_realist]

The BBC website is reporting that Brian Moore has committed suicide.

[PJHolybloke]

How much influence do you think the debacle in the RFU had on the team leading in to this? it seemed their were off the field discipline issues, possibly resulting the absence of Tindall and in my mind a poor decision of play Flood/Wilkinson in combination.

None TGG, the players just weren't good enough, some were, but as a team England just didn't have the right personnel to do a good job.

I don't think the off-field events had anything to do with it either, England were outplayed today in pretty much every facet of the game, the only bright star was Tuilagi - don't start - so there needs to be a rethink at every level of the England setup, Rob Andrew has some work to do, when he's finished with the demands regarding his chuffin contract that is.

From the coaching level through to the Saxons England need to start building something to compete in 2015, it just will not be acceptable to keep bumbling on as they are.

Do you think MJ has been given too much authority? Perhaps SCW should have been brought in at the top level rather than pfaffing around with RA and a reshuffle of the board? Did they take their eyes off the ball at the crucial moment? When reflecting on England's worst performance in a world cup this millenium, how much of the blame do you think the RFU will apportion to their own self interested political schenanigans in WC year?

Mate, seriously? The RFU shouldering any blame is just never going to happen. I would have preferred SCW to RA any day of the week but the blazers screwed that right up. I don't think MJ is up to the job in his current role, if any of his exploits as a player were going to make up for his lack of experience, you would have thought that his leadership qualities would have shone through, instead it appears that this was one of the areas England were most lacking.

Apart from the BS the players were responsible for in their down time, the inability to make a firm choice between Flood or Wilkinson suggests a certain lack of decisive thinking, and if you can't make decisions under pressure, you can't be a leader of men.

The RFU seem to exist in a bubble of their own self-importance, Francis Baron might be heading back to caretake at the top, and whilst he isn't the most progressive of people, he will at least bring a halt to the merry-go-round in the boardroom. Honestly, they're so self-absorbed they probably wont know England got bombed out till they read it in the morning papers.

Hah! We all suffer with our bureaucrats.

Definitely a game of two halves today. It looked to me like France tried to shut the game down. In the end they squeaked it, but largely through a few untimely English handling errors than any great defensive wall from the French.

It was a game of two halves, France won the first and England didn't win the second. No excuses, just not good enough, Walshy had a good game though.

[yappysnap]

Well come on Wales, bring it back north and stick it to the French on the day.

The whole coaching set up under Johnson needs to be sacked Ford, Wells and Alred are utter Poopie. Time to find some new coaches somewhere i think.

[Cumbrian]

How much influence do you think the debacle in the RFU had on the team leading in to this? it seemed there were off the field discipline issues, possibly resulting the absence of Tindall and in my mind a poor decision of play Flood/Wilkinson in combination.

Very little i think. We don't have the players. And we picked poorly. Not having our best forward etc etc etc. Even with our strongest team out i think player for player we're beneath all the SH sides, Wales, France and Ireland. Our only strength is depth, but that's a depth of mediocrity.

All that said, if we ARE to be successful in future we need changes at the RFU. But we all know we're much better at shooting ourselves in the foot. We do have some good young players, i'd be tempted to try out a load and see who look up to it.

I don't believe we are THAT bad, we're on par with the northern hemisphere sides, we've had a bad tournament yes, but we did win this year's Six Nations. That's not to say believe things are fine the way they are, things do need to change. I'm mainly looking at the coaching staff and getting rid of some of the deadwood in the squad. It's important not to be too knee-jerk though, we've got the bones of a very good young squad, they just need the right coaching and to gain some confidence.

[offload]

IMO poor selection contributed as much as anything to England's loss. Lawes, Haskell, Shaw, Armitage, Flood at 10, Corbisero should all have started. I simlpy can't understand what MJ was thinking in his most important game in charge.

[trebellbobaggins]

How did we fail so badly?

we won a world cup, had tons of young kids playing and have a genuinly good U21 side come out of that youth and have had for years and yet we have nothing but mediocre at the top level.

Can we turn it around? why are we not bringing these young kids in? or is it that case that we are and the coaches and the poor quality of the Prem is ruining them?

They used to say it about the celtic sides but their league is now the better league my some distance it seems.

15-20 average years incoming again?

[Guest]

staggered to why moody came of with 20 minutes left!

[Hood83]

IMO poor selection contributed as much as anything to England's loss. Laws, Haskell, Shaw, Armitage, Flood at 10, Corbisero should all have started. I simlpy can't understand what MJ was thinking in his most important game in charge.

Agree entirely. This was Johnson's big test, and he failed it. I can appreciate the sentiment of not making knee-jerk decisions but keeping Johnson means keeping Wells, Smith etc and we REALLY can't afford that. Wales finally backed youth and guess what, they're in a semi-final. Gatland was initially conservative but recognised that Warburton, priestland and North could develop at this level and that steady plodders like S and R Jones aren't going to anymore. Can't see Johnson doing the same

[PJHolybloke]

I'm struggling to see any standout contenders who didn't make the squad today to be honest and I think that's the biggest problem.

Wilkinson, Moody, Thompson, Cueto and Easter will not be playing at the next world cup, some will be unavailable for selection next year anyway so they need to be thanked for their contributions and put gently out to grass.

England need to experiment with half-back pairings, give some of the guys who are playing well at IC a chance, find a proper backrow balance, and a class LH prop, I'm not entirely convinced by the locks either.

The coaching staff also need a clearout. Rob Andrew has got some work to do.

[Hood83]

staggered to why moody came of with 20 minutes left!

Because he showed no leadership or form when we needed it. I'm staggered as to why Wood hasn't been given move game time

[EnglishReign]

Need to bring in youngsters like Sharples, Trinder etc. Plus get the decent players starting like Haskell, Wood et al. They proved themselves for nothing.

[Meflanker]

I agree with most of the sentiments here, we picked players for their experience and they showed none at all. our most experienced looking player on the pitch today was 20 year old manu tuilagi (i know he didn't have a perfect game either)
Johnsons selections did not help us in anyway for this game, Easter went backwards continuously his selection baffled me with Haskell in such good form.

Will be supporting Wales fully now!

[Knowsit17]

England played 100% the wrong game imo. As they showed for brief skirmishes they were capable of controlling and creating but their handling was awful, they were actually trying to play too fast for themselves!

Having said that it seems that nobody is giving the French enough credit. Neither pack dominated but France did more than enough up front to suit their backs. They caught the English stone cold in the first half as evidenced by some attrocious attempted tackles.

I can only hope that, injuries permitting, our defence does as good a job as today and we manage to out-psyche Les Bleus in a week.

[Cumbrian]

Players I definitely keep in the squad:

Dan Cole, Alex Corbisiero, Dylan Hartley, Courtney Lawes, Tom Palmer, Tom Croft, Tom Wood, Toby Flood, Ben Foden, Manu Tuilagi, Chris Ashton, Ben Youngs (he’d be in the next group if I didn’t know he is capable of better).

Players I’m not sure:

James Haskell (He’s pissing off to Japan), Delon Armitage (Could be heading to France) Matt Stevens, Richard Wigglesworth, Nick Easter (how much has he got left), Matt Banahan, Andrew Sheridan (Same as for Easter)

Thank you, goodbye:

Simon Shaw, Mike Tindall, Lewis Deacon, Lee Mears, Lewis Moody, Mark Cueto, Jonny Wilkinson, Shontayne Hape and Steve Thompson (I’d keep him, but reckon he’ll call it a day).

Players who haven’t really had a chance and I’ve no Idea:

Joe Simpson, Dave Wilson

The way I see it, England are going to have to bring in around 10-15 new faces to the squad.

[Riggs]

I always knew England would do well.....NOT!

Worthless and just slightly no better than their football sports counterparts.

At this rate we'll win nothing in sport for sometime to come.

[Geordie]

What is it with the England setup that players perform brilliantly in the HC etc and yet become limited, restricted zombies as soon as they join with England......

Yet again i question WHAT is Wells getting paid for?

Slow pondersous penalty ridden forward effort.....i could coach them to do that!

And the suggestion that Moody is in their for his leadership ability is absolutely laughable! Come on Johno....

Time to gut your coaching team....and get your selection process up to scratch or you need to walk away.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Johnson must be sick with anger. As always the whole England set up completely disrespected their opponents - as they do to whoever they play. This would include their pathetic media -e.g. supporters with word processors/microphones. Team discipline on and off the field was diabolical. The players involved in the drunken debauchery should not be considered for selection again or Johnson should make a point and go! Gatland sorted out the Welsh discipline problems and look at tyhem go.
Thuggery on the field (Lawes, Armitage, Ashton) and the amount of needless penalties they gave away were ultimately their undoing. And now 2 out of the 3 worst teams in the 6 Ns clash in Edinburgh in the opener in February. Will not be pretty or flowing rugby thats for sure. Wales and Ireland must be cacking themselves laughing at the prospect.

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