Another choke for N.Z on the cards then?

Bit of a pattern developing once again then? A.B's cruise through the pool stages only to behave like startled rabbits in a cars headlights once they stroll through to the knock-out rounds?

Hey it would be funny but I dont think it will happen this time. Plus they are putting on a very good show and by all accounts they have been very welcoming so I reckon Id just about be happy for them to win this one.

Yep the ol' NZ choked again, not the 'the other team were simply better on the day'

I think it's sad that rather than believe your team can actually do the business, you have to rely on another team simply not coming up with the goods once in a blue moon.

Why the air of hostility and disrespect about this thread? Can't see why you'd want to sling mud unless you've let certain wums who happen to be from NZ drag you to generalisations, in which case you are of a limited mindset sir. Or would a sign of NZ winning the cup be them scraping unconvincingly through the groups by your logic? Maybe you'd willingly pit your own side against them in the QF's just to test your theory, how does that sound?

Thinking it over, it might be a blessing in disguise that NZ are provided with a much sterner group test in Les Bleus than last time. I know I'd much rather face a taste of things to come BEFORE the KO phase. Whatever the case, NZ will make it through the group and barring the draw pitting them against the French again later on, I'm seriously tempted to say that I think Australia will be the only side with a realistic chance of toppling them beyond the group.

Tigerhorn

What a fine article,and very original.
Don't know who is the bigger idiot,you for writing it or me for reading it....

You for reading it. Do you respond chastising fellow Kiwi's when they post dull anti-English missives?

You can tell when England have been rank, brittle and unconvincing in pool play, because the English fans start criticising NZ for being "too good".

At least England had a bunch of talented Kiwis and Samoans in the team this time to save their blushes.

It really justifies MJ turning his back on the apparently fetid England youth development system and snapping up Samoans and ex-Kiwi league players in preference when they score a bunch of tries for you against Georgia and atleast make the score line respectable. Lucky you weren't drawn in the Welsh pool, or you'd be on a plane home by now based on the comparitive performances so far.

Well done to Wales and Ireland for flying the flag for the north.

Thanks for that GG. I'd almost lost hope of hooking a reply from you.

Glad to oblige TLH, of course if you want to post something sensible we could just talk about rugby in a grown up way instead.

But I'm happy to keep up my end and be petty for as long as you like.

"if you want to post something sensible we could just talk about rugby in a grown up way instead."

You don't do "sensible" GG. Best we carry on as is. Besides, you're a one topic poster and a little on the tedious side.

Yawn. So this entire thread was some poor WUM-light attempting to get specifically me to respond so that you could claim to have moral high ground on being a constructive participant to the forum?

File this one under "I".

"Choking" yawn now where have I heard that before,GREAT original post
applauds!!!!!

Another go GG! You just can't help yourself can you?

Knowsit17 wrote:Why the air of hostility and disrespect about this thread? Can't see why you'd want to sling mud unless you've let certain wums who happen to be from NZ drag you to generalisations, in which case you are of a limited mindset sir. Or would a sign of NZ winning the cup be them scraping unconvincingly through the groups by your logic? Maybe you'd willingly pit your own side against them in the QF's just to test your theory, how does that sound?

Well put Knowsit.

TheGreyGhost wrote:Yawn. So this entire thread was some poor WUM-light attempting to get specifically me to respond so that you could claim to have moral high ground on being a constructive participant to the forum?

File this one under "I".

Ghost, remember ( based on ignorance)

I see England have called up yet another Kiwi.

This "choking" stick that the English like to beat us with might become a bit of a boomerang fairly shortly.

tigerleghorn wrote:"if you want to post something sensible we could just talk about rugby in a grown up way instead."

You don't do "sensible" GG. Best we carry on as is. Besides, you're a one topic poster and a little on the tedious side.

Actually he's got more to fire about at England than you do at NZ mate.

I'm not sure this even a topic to be honest.

"Will NZ choke" as a topic of debate seems more controversial than the "Will England name another kiwi in the their squad" topic that I was banned from the site for 3 days for posting.

Sauce. Goose. Gander.

For once GG I agree

Yep. It said I had posted a repetitive WUM.

I can only guess that you found

"Bit of a pattern developing once again then? A.B's cruise through the pool stages only to behave like startled rabbits in a cars headlights once they stroll through to the knock-out rounds?"

Original or genuinely thought provoking.

Personally the GG no I did not.

I don't see how this is a repetitive WUM. I see it as a first time attepted WUM by this poster. If you don't like the opinion he is expressing I suggest you debate the matter in an adult fashion or simply ignore the poster instead of giving them the reaction they are looking for. This thread will continued to be monitored.

tigerleghorn wrote:Thanks for that GG. I'd almost lost hope of hooking a reply from you.

It's obviously a wum article

Right, well all we can ask for is consistency.

In that case Tiger top marks for contributing your wonderfully original thread about how NZ have peaked in the pool stage and now will "choke" in the knock outs.

Goodness, I bet you are the first analyst to "spot the trend" and bring it to our attention in such a well articulated and entertaining manner. With such stirling wit and keen analytic sensibilities you are clearly wasted in whatever capacity you currently work.

You in fact, seem over qualified for a role in the pundits slot next to Dayglo and Iverdale.

Keep up the clearly great and original work that is so valued on this forum.

Perhaps your next insightful article that we never hear here regularly such as Richie McCaw's cheating, how referees never penalise McCaw, how NZ are always off-side, or NZ's propensity to play specialist backs out of position at the RWC.

TheGreyGhost wrote:Right, well all we can ask for is consistency.

I am a little confused, are we talking about the referees again?

just joking.

I'd be happy for them to refer this one to the TMO.

You just watch, Nz will "choke" against France, beat England in the quarters, beat Ireland or Wales in the semi, then beat which ever teams wins from the Australia, South Africa battle!

"I'd be happy for them to refer this one to the TMO."

My god GG, you post wum after wum always having a pop from your high horse and the moment you get some back you throw a hissy fit.

Tell you what, you end the dull anti-English posts and Ill promise not to be horrid to you and your precious N.Z again.

So alyndavies, you predict a choke and a world cup victory?

Now that my friend is as an original idea I have seen here.

Worth it's own thread, you agree Ghost?

biltongbek wrote:So alyndavies, you predict a choke and a world cup victory?

Now that my friend is as an original idea I have seen here.

Worth it's own thread, you agree Ghost?

Why not? Why wouldn't New Zealand put a second string out against France and potentially lose narrowly, there by guranteeing them an easier passage to the final?
Despite Wales pushing south Africa and Ireland beating Australia, would you rather play one of Australia / South Africa, or Wales / Ireland for a place in the final?

Graham Henry is probably one of the most clever and sly coaches in World rugby, he isn't stupid! He is retiring and even if New Zealand lose to France it will be forgotten if New Zealand win the cup, and it will be much easier playing England in the quarters, then Ireland or Wales in the semi's.
Than playing Argentina and then one of Australia or South Africa.

Granted it's an outside bet, but it isn't beyond the realms of possibility.

Oddly a good point.
He did exactly the same thing against SA except there he did want his cake and eat it too. He wanted the win. And to give key players games.
But here momentum and tough matches for the first team are more important.
Hopefully france do the right thing and front.
They will be mocked if they dont.

France have already hinted they may field a weakened team against New Zealand, they did that before the World Cup. Though with so many changes made between the first 2 games, you wonder if they will still do it.

Yeah its not a biggy now. Guys like mccaw read carter etc must play now to get game time and to allow other combinations to settle in. So by default our best team has to play. Who we play is secondary.
Although its a discussion point on these boards it will never have been something GH will have considered.
Our biggest problem is to get tough pool games for our top side. As weve never had one.
Maybe this week. Heres hoping.

I think there is a good chance of NZ choking again. But this time it will only be from the choke tackles Ireland will be doing on them in the final.

This may sound arrogant but the most likely final at this point is Ireland v NZ. Let me explain: Irelands most likely route is Russia, Italy, Wales and England (history suggests England will beat France). If that's the case Irelands competitive record against each of these teams is outstanding and they have dominated them over the last ten years.*

As for NZ they are obviously favourites to get to the final as it's in NZ and they are best in the world etc.

*In reality there is nothing between Ireland, Wales and England at the moment.

Can I just also reveal that on my profile on the old 606 from day 1 I listed my favourite match of all time Ireland v NZ WC final 2011. Is feider linn!

I agree with the above their is a huge possibility that New Zealand will choke, they have depth and quality all over the field, but as we all know they still put in some bad performances, shut them down in certain positions, hold onto the ball and cause turnovers, then teams like South Africa with Burger and Brussow and Ireland with O'Brien and Heaslip then New Zealand could bow out.

New Zealand are favourites and all the teams capable of making the final will want to beat the All Blacks, they will step up to the plate and try and cause the All Blacks problems.

So are you saying they'll "Choke" or be beaten by a better team? It sounds like the latter. I'm bemused that having beaten Australia shorn of key players by a few points ( as did Samoa a few weeks back, albeit with considertably more style) , that Ireland are suddenly in up their with South Africa...

TheGreyGhost wrote:So are you saying they'll "Choke" or be beaten by a better team? It sounds like the latter. I'm bemused that having beaten Australia shorn of key players by a few points ( as did Samoa a few weeks back, albeit with considertably more style) , that Ireland are suddenly in up their with South Africa...

A. How is 9 a few?
B. Ireland have beaten SA 3 from the last 4 games.
C. It's unlikely Ireland will play SA in the WC anyway.
D. Ireland have a achievable route to the final

Do you dispute any of these points?

Ireland are ranking somewhere around 7th in the world. SA are double (and reigning) world champions and consistently operate in one of the top 3 spots. This is based on consistently beating most teams, most of the time.

Ireland can't seem to manage to master the challenges of the 6N other than a few upset wins over England.

SA have sent a lot of very ordinary, very tired sides in the EOYTs and tinkered extensively. Ireland haven't toured South Africa in such a long time that I fail to recall when the last was. It's important to give context rather than just quote meaningless stats.

Don't count your chickens, you still have pool games to progress and other results may influence your path to the final.

Point C is entirely irrelevant.

TheGreyGhost wrote:Ireland are ranking somewhere around 7th in the world. SA are double (and reigning) world champions and consistently operate in one of the top 3 spots. This is based on consistently beating most teams, most of the time.

Ireland can't seem to manage to master the challenges of the 6N other than a few upset wins over England.

SA have sent a lot of very ordinary, very tired sides in the EOYTs and tinkered extensively. Ireland haven't toured South Africa in such a long time that I fail to recall when the last was. It's important to give context rather than just quote meaningless stats.

Don't count your chickens, you still have pool games to progress and other results may influence your path to the final.

Point C is entirely irrelevant.

If Ireland had beaten Oz by a couple more scores they would be ranked 2nd in the world now according to irb.com. As it is they are 6th with very little between them and SA.

Let's not forget that SA looked quite ordinary v Wales and should have lost.

At least my stats aren't made up unlike yours.

I won't count my chickens as I realise that just as Ireland could lose to Wales, Italy or England/France NZ could easily lose to themselves as they often do at world cups.

Ireland have consistently come out on top of all six nations teams with the exception of France. I guess that's something we have in common with NZ, No?

Leinster you are reading way to much from one win. One pool win doesnt extrapolate out to a final. There are mountains to climb for ireland between now and a final.

One of them is simply to back up what they did against oz in their next match- something i would suggest is a lot harder than you think.

Everyone will be gunning for Ireland now. Absolutely gunning for them so now i think youll find out a little bit about the ferocity that the abs face just about every single match

Taylorman wrote:Leinster you are reading way to much from one win. One pool win doesnt extrapolate out to a final. There are mountains to climb for ireland between now and a final.

One of them is simply to back up what they did against oz in their next match- something i would suggest is a lot harder than you think.

Sorry but this is a ridiculous post because all I said is that our likely route to the final is one which we have a lot of experience beating. That is a fact. I completely acknowledge that it is still a huge ask.

Although I do agree with your view that it becomes harder to put in big shifts after you have just had a huge win.

Also I am worried about Italy too as they could potentially be Irelands toughest opponent of the group.

Leinster and Greyghost, sorry to intrude but i would like to respond.

1. In the professional era Ireland have played SA 10 times, and won 3. One win was a dubious Paul Honiss allowing O'Gara to take a quick tap penalty to win the test.

2. Even if Ireland won by more points and went to no. 2 in the world ranking, the ranking in itself doesn't mean they are now the second best team in the world. it only means they got double points because it was a RWC match.

3. Ireland has never beaten SA away from home, something SA have done 8 out of 13 times and a draw.

4. We do in fact play Ireland at the end of our 10 month long season.

5. both teams have an achieveble route to the final.

6. We were not lucky to beat Wales, we outscored them on tries, we defended better than them, they couldn't finish or break our line often enough to make it count. this happens in tests. They dominated 60% of possession and territory, not grounds enough to have a person reason, "they should have won." we play many tests with less ball and territory than other teams, still doesn't make us lose.

Sigh. This "if we'd won by a couple more scores" is frankly ridiculous.

Why don't you watch the game again and notice how sweaty palmed the Irish were. Are you seriously trying to re-write this as a one sided rout by a dominant heroic Ireland who beat a hapless Australia into submission and but for the grace of civility didn't pile yet more misery on by, erm, scoring a couple of tries?

It was a close run thing. Don't get ahead of yourself.

Good comments Biltong. The point I was trying to make exactly.

NZ wiped the floor with Australia in Bledisloe I, and then got pelted in the return game. Maybe the result says more about Australia, than Ireland?

Yeah you just draw unnecessary attention to yourselves by even mentioning a final at this pount but it sure is great to have the focus off our efforts for a change though i think all that may change this weekend when we take france to the cleaners.