will the lions try and choke?

The Irish sides both nationally and provincially are very adept at this and it was a big part in their success over Australia at the world cup.it doesn't seem to come as naturally to a lot of the other nations in the UK but could be a great additional weapon.given POC and Healey are probable test starters and best a bolter does anyone think the lions will try and adopt this tactic in oz or is there not enough time or inclination to bring it on board?

Eats, shoots, chokes and leaves.

Why not? Variety is the spice.

Wales used it a few times during the 6nations, now granted Ryan Jones was the key man in most of those tackles (and was able to carry them out without too much assistance) it’s obviously in Gatlands canon. It’s a simple enough tactic, the players available are well able to carry it out, the Aussies have been caught out with it before, and it gives you a scrum turnover, if the Lions are enjoying the kind of scrum dominance that we expect, then it’s a bit of a no-brainer.

If Healey and best make the test side they won't be able to stop themselves

Lydiate and Warburton tend to tackle low and scythe the players down, so would be a major change for them.

It only seems to work against you when you play really dynamic sides like nz who continue to drive 20 yards past the tackle area'not sue Australia will have this capacity to be honest. Choke on.

Think lydiate is the biggest gamble in the whole side, looking forward to seeing how he goes on Saturday.

There are three in particular in Ireland who are absolutely immense chokers.
Best, Sexton and Donncha O'Callaghan.

Two are touring, Heaslip is pretty adept at it too. Sexton's ability to hold up players twice his size (prime evidence in Rabo final) arguably makes him the best defensive 10 in the world.

I can't see why it wouldn't be used if some of these players are on the pitch, it usually succeeds in securing a scrum (which could be a weapon of the Lions) and the worst that can happen is losing 5 metres.

Chris Henry is one of the best in Ireland at this aswel although slightly off topic in this context perhaps.

They certainly choked well in the 6 Nations

RubyGuby wrote:They certainly choked well in the 6 Nations

That's a compliment, Ruby. Thank you kindly, sir.

Us and The All Blacks are terrible lads for not living up to expectations....

There are two things that I have never understood about the choke tactic.

1. Why is it not considered a high tackle?

2. Why doesn't every side do it?

1. Because it isnt above shoulder height

2. Its boring

munkian wrote:1. Because it isnt above shoulder height

2. Its boring

Perhaps it is not always above shoulder height, but I have seen numerous occasions when it has been and nothing has been done by the referee. Besides- why would it be called a choke tackle if the neck was never involved?

1. It usually happens at stand still pace or slow motion anyway. I assume high tackles are dangerous because they are contact with the head or neck area at speed - momentum being the dangerous ingredient. If contact with the head, neck area itself was deemed the issue then perhaps scrums themselves would be banned.

2. Every side can do it if they so choose to, but other sides have different coaching preferences. I see quite a few sides doing it though. I seem to remember England doing it to us once or twice in the Six Nations. So what goes around, comes around, I reckon.

munkian wrote:1. Because it isnt above shoulder height

2. Its boring

Sorry, munkian but you're wrong there. If Ireland do it, then it's a world class tactic and not boring in the slightest. You're forgetting the manual you were quoting on another thread.

mike Philips did a good choke hold in the England game

Because it holds the player up and chokes the life out of play.

I agree though, I've seen Irish players do it with their arms clearly wrapped around player's necks with no penalties given.

Its a weird one.

SecretFly wrote:

munkian wrote:1. Because it isnt above shoulder height

2. Its boring

Sorry, munkian but you're wrong there. If Ireland do it, then it's a world class tactic and not boring in the slightest. You're forgetting the manual you were quoting on another thread.

Sorry Ted, went a bit mad there

There you go! Even the strike running Welsh use it when slow dancing around the field with an opponent in your arms seems more useful

It's a weapon-it'd be folly not to use it if given the chance. Trick is to not premeditate it too much. See a bloke going high hell go for it if you've got support in the tackle.

The expectations and pressures on Ireland are nowhere near the same as NZ.

Hey, we haven't done that since Henson tackled Tait

Matt Stevens is good at it

SecretFly wrote:1. It usually happens at stand still pace or slow motion anyway. I assume high tackles are dangerous because they are contact with the head or neck area at speed - momentum being the dangerous ingredient. If contact with the head, neck area itself was deemed the issue then perhaps scrums themselves would be banned.

2. Every side can do it if they so choose to, but other sides have different coaching preferences. I see quite a few sides doing it though. I seem to remember England doing it to us once or twice in the Six Nations. So what goes around, comes around, I reckon.

I appreciate that it is significantly less dangerous that a 'standard' high tackle, but speed and momentum are not mentioned in the law book regarding high tackles, a high tackle is any tackle that is about shoulder height and I can't see why the choke tackle doesn't qualify. In the same way, tackling a player in the air is always a penalty, it doesn't matter if it is slow and you let him down to the ground gently (I've seen it happen when the tackling player mistimes it), if his feet are off the ground and you go for a tackle it's a penalty- no discretion regarding the level of danger.

I dunno Irfon, there's also an "at your own risk" with choke tackles as if you don't get it right you get sat on your jacksie. Fine line but shoulders are fine by me.

disneychilly wrote:I dunno Irfon, there's also an "at your own risk" with choke tackles as if you don't get it right you get sat on your jacksie. Fine line but shoulders are fine by me.

Indeed. It's not recommended when tackling Rene Ranger for instance https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ksSI5kpRFHY - you might get re-a-Ranger-ed

Lookout guys Pete's got his funny undies on today

SecretFly wrote:

munkian wrote:1. Because it isnt above shoulder height

2. Its boring

Sorry, munkian but you're wrong there. If Ireland do it, then it's a world class tactic and not boring in the slightest. You're forgetting the manual you were quoting on another thread.

It requires multiple tacklers to commit to one attacker, leaving spaces elsewhere. NZ countered the choke tackle by deliberately pre-planned off-loading as the player went into the tackle. It required immense ball handling skills and support pace, but it worked a treat when NZ blew Ireland away 60-0.