Carter Back Injury

I'm sure this is clearly a ruse by GH and Co.

Anyway, Slade put in such a marvellous performance against South Africa, hardly put a foot wrong, there's no need to worry, is there?

Yep, he'll be back next week after a little rest to get over that wrist injury.

Besides we all know that back injuries heal quickly and hardly ever have an impact on form.

I'm not worried at all. No siree.

Irony GG,this is shades of 2007,DC carrying an injury against France .
at least it`s not a knock out match.

Carter's curse strikes?

tbf slade showed some lovely touches when he came on against tonga, and lets be honest no disrespect but you should walk over japan

True Welshy. But the worry is the back line mix going into the France game, you can bet any amount of money that should NZ win that, GH and co. will start tinkering again. We had a large number of changes between each 3N game, another set of rotations for Tonga, 7 changes this time, bound to be more for France, then more again for Canada with (hopefully) Read returning, then quater-final. One of Henry's key lessons from 2007 was that settled combinations build momentum and horses for courses can equate to grand national deaths. This is why we saw a settled side in the EOYT last year.

The collectively seem to have got the yips over various positions in the backline - made a howler over the Gear omission for Guildford and now it's starting to turn into a bit of a debacle with make-shift out of position starters again (ghosts of '07, '03', '99) Kahui seeming first choice on the wing and a coverted full back on the other flank.

They're still umming over the starting 9 spot, and we've now got Ellis back and Weepu covering 10.

It's getting a bit twitchy out there.

They will be hoping it is not recurring. Strife for ABs if he gets hurt again - they have no back ups for the most important position in the team.

No DC? 4 more years.

Great, so now it's Read, McCaw, DC, Mils and Dagg all out. Or are they in Rustenburg?

GH and Wayne Smith have officially lost the plot as they suggest SBW will play on the wing.

They clearly have no idea what their team should be and given the number of injuries and the persistent non selection of Guildford they are clearly putting up their hands to muddling the original selection.

These coaches had four years to prepare for this, and they're fluffing their lines.

Looks like they are trying to sort out out their best 7 backs and then shove them into any position to accommodate them. The time to do that was 2 years ago. GH tying himself in knots. I wonder if he is feeling the pressure a tad too much.

The question is:

do you play your 7 most talented backs, or do you play the best specialist in each position?

What do you think is Graham Henry's thoughts.

In my Oh So humble opinion, he is choosing the first option.

If that were the case, we wouldn't see a different 7 in almost every match.

Personally I think he's over-managing the situation. Sometimes those in charge feel they have to be actively change things in order to be seen as though they are in control.

He was supposed to have shelved his obsession with rotation, but it looks like you can't teach an old dog new tricks, that leopards don't change their spots, and that running with scissors is dangerous, especially if you don't look before you leap. He should realise that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush and stop sitting on the fence. Me? well I'm going to continue to see the glass as half empty until someone pulls an ace out of their sleve when the acid test comes on. They say a rose by any other name smells as sweet, but since the acorn doesn't fall far from the tree in this case we'll need all hands on deck, all hands to the pump. An oldie might be a goodie but all that glitters is not gold.

I guess I'll keep looking on the bright side and at the end of the day, as ye sow, ye shall reap.

Ah.........but dont forget, all that glitters is not gold!

Well worrying signs indeed. But having said that, it is a game against Japan. Looks like they´re erring on the side of caution and resting the big guns. With Dagg and Muliaina out, they decide to put Toeava there instead of Jane. If it were against France, that would worry me.

Carter out gives Slade an opportunity. One we hope doesn´t become a regular occurrence but if you have a back up first five with no other real contenders (Weepu can´t last a full game in my opinion) then he´s got to play. They have the luxury of carrying Guilford because there are other options but how you can sit out a specialist left winger (Gear) who has done the job for you is beyond me. McCaw´s absence makes that wafer thin backrow cover seem like a wet tissue.

So yes, selection mistakes have been made and injuries have further complicated matters. That said, the team has my full support and you won´t see me jumping ship. Some of the crap I read on the NZ websites like I am a lifelong AB fan but am going to support Australia now is pathetic. Recriminations will come if things go wrong but for the love of all things good, like rugby and beer, get behind your team. I don´t have a problem with picking out selection holes or inconsistencies, wrong tactics etc. This is after all the point of this forum. But let´s not turn this into the wheels are coming off and we´re all going to crash and burn for the umpteenth time.

I will be the first to admit that there are some things that are worrying me. I don´t have a problem with pointing out those things. I agree entirely GG with your last sentiments. You have to believe and keep the faith otherwise you´re no good to NZ rugby. So plenty of rugby left and plenty of opportunities for our ABs to do us proud. This was never going to be easy. So come on boys and do us proud. kia kaha aotearoa and to all those cry babies jumping ship, good riddance to you. It´s time to separate the wheat from the chaff because our boys in black deserve better than that.

Rant over. It´s 35 degrees in Madrid, I´m wearing a suit and am gasping for a beer. Read a lot of rubbish at brekky this morning and it got my wick up.

Kia - has Slade only played the two tests as the starting 10? Us last year in Sydney and SA this year in PE?

I think if Slade plays its Goodbye to Jane

Only SA mate. He actually came off the bench in Sydney with Kaino and replaced Cruden. Looked a lot more solid than him which is why he´s in the side now I guess.

So he doesn´t have the losing curse! But Carter is a big player to fill. I thought he showed good touches coming on against Tonga and that was a beautiful pass into space drawing in two tacklers for Nonu to score a try. I think the guy is a lot better prospect than Donald but is obviously not cut in the same cloth as Carter.

If the top side doesn't play both France and Canada I'll be spewing. But as Kia said it won't diminish my support which is unconditional. We can dissect and complain all we like on here but I'm sure all the Kiwis on here put the black on and give the boys the best support we can give. Henry's paid to know more than us and it's not like he wants us to lose considering he's got more invested in the ABs than we have. But I'm glad he's on his toes.

Agree totally with Biltong about specialists. Though at 11 it isn't possible any more if Guildford is a passenger.

Ah thanks Kia. Forgot about Cruden in Sydney.

The search for Carter's backup is like spin bowlers for us at the moment. We've been through 11 since Warnie clocked off, but each new one gets called the new sheik, then lasts 3 or 4 games before being dropped back to club cricket. Hard act trying to follow a legend, even if good enough to be there in your own right.

The top side not taking into account injuries. Read won´t be back by then and I certainly hope McCaw, Carter, and either Dagg or Muliaina are back for the France game. I think the original team squad did give the impression Henry wanted to play near his best side. I can´t help but wonder whether that first squad announcement was a selection smokescreen and this was the side they had in mind. I don´t want to believe that as neither Dagg nor Muliaina at fullback is inexcusable.

The team I´d like to see get a run of games is, if fit:
Woodcock, Mealamu, O Franks,
Thorn, Williams (more for his lineout work)
Kaino, McCaw, Read
(Cowan is not playing well at the moment and Weepu doesn´t have a full game in him so it´ll be interesting to see how Ellis, with a much quicker clearing pass goes even though he is not a likeable option for me either. Who is the lesser of three weevils? ) Cowan, Carter
Nonu, Smith
Jane, Muliaina, Dagg

A Hore, Whitelock, Thomson, Weepu, Slade, Kahui

Play that team from the quarters and it could do the job. Not perfect but certainly good enough.

Could a lot of it not be mind games and they are just looking to give certain players their 100th cap all at the same time?

The thought has crossed my mind but for Mils to get his 100th cap against France with Richie he would´ve needed to play this game against Japan. So that theory goes out the window unless Mils is a late replacement for Toeava because of a slight groin strain (he is after all one of Ted´s favourites).

Slade will get you past Japan.

Personally I'd ask Guildford to take one for the team, injure himself, and allow GH to get Nick Evans on the plane.

Nick Evans wouldn't go.

He's come out and stated if he's an All Black he has to be first choice.

So he's probably watching Carters injury with interest...

I can see Slade having a stormer and the NZ crowd shouting Cum on Feel the Noise

funnyExiledScot wrote:Slade will get you past Japan.

Personally I'd ask Guildford to take one for the team, injure himself, and allow GH to get Nick Evans on the plane.

Slade in the team will get past more than Japan but obviously everybody hopes or prays for Carter´s return for the big matches.

But I fail to see how Guilford´s cutting from the team has anything to do with the return of Nick Evans. If Guilford is going to be a passenger then he´s no better than Gear who was thought supposedly to be out of form (his Wellington form was deemed too late). Guilford should not be in the squad and we should have had specialist cover for left wing in terms of Gear. Indeed we should have a specialist left wing.

Nick Evans would be a welcome addition to the squad. Unfortunately, he has decided to give up his test aspirations for earning money in English club rugby. I believe only test players for NZ who play in NZ is the right policy otherwise nobody would be left in NZ and you´d have to draw from a disparate team playing in different calendars and with priority given to the club and not country. It may work for Scottish players playing elsewhere in Europe as the local club scene is not big enough in Scotland and we´re talking about the same calendar window for tests. But NZ needs a strong club and provincial base in order to produce its talent and all that would go out the window just to select somebody who turned his back on the jersey. I think you have to look at the bigger picture and Evans, Hayman etc chose their destiny.

I don't understand why they would not play Guildford in this game, and not drop him from the squad. It looks as though they don't intend to play him at all, in that case, unless there will be more ill-advised tinkering and rotation.

Surely it might be a good idea at this point to replace him with some specialist back row cover? If that were the case and we later needed to call back in Gear we could jetison the back rower again after Read/McCaw recover.

Who's the back up 7 at Crusaders? looked immence in Mccaws absence, way superior to pen magnet Thompson.

Matt Todd. He'd be my choice too, but I didn't want to jinx it by saying.

What are the rules for squad changes. I know a player cannot return to the squad if he is dropped but can a player be dropped when he is not injured?

The problem is GG who would that back row cover be? Matt Todd? Mark Todd? Charisma? Braid? No one seems to be leaping out of the hat for inclusion there whereas Gear seems a logical replacement for Guilford who doesn´t seem to be wanted. Even if he does play for Canada and is then stowed away for a rainy day, I don´t see the point of that. Far better to have someone who is genuinely competing for a place like Dagg.

boomeranga wrote:Ah thanks Kia. Forgot about Cruden in Sydney.

The search for Carter's backup is like spin bowlers for us at the moment. We've been through 11 since Warnie clocked off, but each new one gets called the new sheik, then lasts 3 or 4 games before being dropped back to club cricket. Hard act trying to follow a legend, even if good enough to be there in your own right.

Yup. Or like being a Kiwi bloke living over in Europe and going out with a Swedish girl for the time you are there, before having to go back home to NZ because your visa expires. You look at the rubbish on offer when you get back home and wish things could've gone on

kiakahaaotearoa wrote: The team I´d like to see get a run of games is, if fit:
Woodcock, Mealamu, O Franks,
Thorn, Williams (more for his lineout work)
Kaino, McCaw, Read
(Cowan is not playing well at the moment and Weepu doesn´t have a full game in him so it´ll be interesting to see how Ellis, with a much quicker clearing pass goes even though he is not a likeable option for me either. Who is the lesser of three weevils? ) Cowan, Carter
Nonu, Smith
Jane, Muliaina, Dagg

Kia that's pretty much my top XV. Though on the bench since Weepu covers 9 and 10 why not have SBW and another outside back? Kahui comes to mind even though IMO he's a centre. These selections are hamstrung by the loss of Gear and Sivi though. I understand dropping one, but two?

Toeava at 9.
Dagg to 10.
SBW on the left wing.
Kahui on the right wing.
Nonu/Smith in the center
Jane at full back

Weepu covering 9/10
Slade covering the wing

Guildford in to cover McCaw.

I think this is the *only* combination GH hasn't tried yet.

My wife is Swedish. Really.

First chance I have had to bring that up; yay for me.

I miss blonde girls. Happily married to a Spanish brunette but you always miss what you can´t have until what you do have is taken away from you.

Let´s just be thankful for the many riches the AB have and not put too much focus on the few flaws they have. No such thing as the perfect girl as the Speights ads said. I have Swedish friends and not one is interested in rugby. But a NZer wouldn´t be so enamoured by Jagermeister. Swings and roundabouts.

Slade did play a 3N game on the wing! Be careful what you wish for GG, albeit it in a sarcastic way.

There is the possibility of having Kahui and SBW on the bench with Slade making up for that position. But really do you take Nonu or Smith off if they´re not injured to put on SBW? I think you either choose Nonu or SBW and look for cover or supersub options elsewhere and have specialist cover. Weepu can play first five but I don´t rate him as a specialist 10. I don´t rate him as a specialist 9 but he is usually a welcome replacement for Cowan in the second half.

"I have Swedish friends and not one is interested in rugby."

Good point. She loses the will to live everytime I stick the rugby on - it is a good tactic to get rid of her/keep her quite for a while though.

In terms of the thread the absence of Carter and McCaw for this game, in my opinion, would have been the sensible thing to do regardless of injury. Is there any need for GH to state they are injured or could he have not just said the other players are being given a chance?

From what I understand a player can only be replaced if they are injured and this injury must be verified by independent RWC medical staff so there is no faking.

What? Blood capsules won't do it? Has anyone let the England management know?

So Guilford needs to be used as a tackle bag or accidentally thrown down some stairs...

I thought that was the case. Which begs the question why am I not the specialist left wing cover for the ABs? I could quite happily field the publicity questions in exchange for front row seats, some adidas kit, and a bit of cash. I´d never get a cap so no need for an E-bay auction after everyone in the country thinks I´m the worst All Black ever to be named, and I´d take the heat off other dubious selections because none would be as bad as me. I´m willing to take one for the team. Ted, I´ll send you the flight details. Let´s make this happen.

"Has anyone let the England management know?"

Knowing the RFU then probably not.

Haha Kia I like the thinking, it also sheds light on the England bungee jumping incident (they forgot to lengthen the rop like MJ asked) and the hired dwarf merecenaries that were supposed to take out some of the team.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:So Guilford needs to be used as a tackle bag or accidentally thrown down some stairs...

I thought that was the case. Which begs the question why am I not the specialist left wing cover for the ABs? I could quite happily field the publicity questions in exchange for front row seats, some adidas kit, and a bit of cash. I´d never get a cap so no need for an E-bay auction after everyone in the country thinks I´m the worst All Black ever to be named, and I´d take the heat off other dubious selections because none would be as bad as me. I´m willing to take one for the team. Ted, I´ll send you the flight details. Let´s make this happen.

They'd prefer you to Donald.

Like it McrjfNo7.

And cheers GG. Glad to hear your full support for the idea. The wheels are in motion. I could even try to raise the profile of Christchurch and raise money for the earthquake fund by wearing a wizard´s hat to media conferences and a red and black eye patch.

Training sessions would be designed to improve my A squad´s chances and belittle the fringe players I feel not up to the task like myself and Toeava and Vito. It wouldn´t just be a holiday. More like a work holiday. I wouldn´t drink in training. Matches yes. Interviews, definitely. But all my focus would be on the grand prize, the precious. Even though it wouldn´t appear that way to the outsider.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I miss blonde girls. Happily married to a Spanish brunette but you always miss what you can´t have until what you do have is taken away from you.

Let´s just be thankful for the many riches the AB have and not put too much focus on the few flaws they have. No such thing as the perfect girl as the Speights ads said. I have Swedish friends and not one is interested in rugby. But a NZer wouldn´t be so enamoured by Jagermeister. Swings and roundabouts.

Haha I'm sorted with a brunette German. Though her blue eyes do seem pretty Scandinavian to me-apparently her family had the Aryan Passport.

To be honest I don't mind Jaeger, one of the things I can drink all night without a hangover. Chocolate Zap however, ....

Mine struggles to tell the difference between cricket and rugby. But I made her learn the names of prominent All Blacks before she was allowed to move in. This way when I tell her who's injured, she can say "Oh, no! disaster" with at least some sense of honesty.

So our answer for GH appears to be a bald women of mixed heritage and no fixed address. Good work gentlemen.

A few funnies thrown in there kia? well done.
Must have been tempting to come back..
Dont you think all this trouble in pool play is in some ways a good thing.
Weve never ever had problems in pool play.
Not saying injuries are good but this sort of thing removes any sign of complacency more and more, something weve not experienced.

I definitely think a pool blowout match is not good for the ABs. I had a look again at the Tonga game and thought we played very well in the first half but it was made too easy for us by naive defence. They shored up that defence in the second half and though the performance was pretty gash, it was way more useful to us than scoring another 30 or 40. Keeps the focus and drive there.

No Carter or Richie this match but a chance for cover to get some game time. If we can just get a chance to put out the A squad before the quarters then I think we can do the business. But you never really know with injuries so you just hope that whoever plays puts in a good performance. I still have faith. Important game next one. I still think winning the pool is the best way to go. There are possible upsets on the other side of the draw that are best played out without us there.