hearns v mayweather

First topic message reminder :

As the p4p credentials of both are being discussed on other posts i'm interested in who people see winning this fight.

Mayweather obviously a naturally smaller man, but has fought at around welter for long enough for this to be a fair call. In most opinions he has a higher p4p historical ranking than Tommy.

I'd agree with that, but happen to think in a match up that Hearns is exactly the type of fighter to beat mayweather.... fast hands, great jab, reach fighter/boxer with real power.

As no-one has actually beaten mayweather, its supposition to say someone has the style to do it (a different animal but it would have been interesting to see how he handled williams). I think mayweather would match up pretty well against leonard and i find that one hard to call, but imo, someone like hearns would be the man to do it.

Not sure you give Floyd enough credit for his ring craft.....

Sure Mosley hit him....But guys like Alfonso Hayman went the distance with Hearns....

In Hearns we're not talking about your run of the mill Welterweight though are we Truss, he could literally do everything, he's not known for his ring craft but he knows how to fight and how to move his opponents about. If Leonard couldn't outbox him I don't see how Mayweather could, the fact he gets spoken of in the same breath as Robinson at Welterweight is testament to his god given talent at the weight.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Not sure you give Floyd enough credit for his ring craft.....

Sure Mosley hit him....But guys like Alfonso Hayman went the distance with Hearns....

As Imperial puts there, if Leonard couldn't outbox him, Mayweather couldn't, Leonard was faster, hit harder, had more skill than Mayweather, was bigger, stronger, how long you got?

He wouldn't have to outbox him....Nobody could outbox Hearns..

All about having the skill to get inside and land that one shot..

Interested in Ghosty's opinion but not yours because I'm sick of the way you put it across..

I do think Hearns is more vulnerable than most great fighters and the comments about his chin are no exaggeration, it was poor and think it's highlighted by two fights he actually won very easily Cuevas and Duran. Steward knew the weakness was there so sent his fighter out quick to finish the job before he got tagged and also what he did against Barkley and Hagler, it's why he's such a difficult fighter to judge in head to head match ups. With Mayweather he's someone who I think has more power than people give him credit for, he just chooses to coast in fights not because he's lazy but genuinely think he takes more pleasure in outboxing someone over 12 rounds than knocking them out. Does he have the power to knock Hearns out well just ask Mosley who he was backing up at will and Hatton who at the time could take a punch.

Don't think Hearns takes the Hatton shot Ghosty....Hearns chin got better the bigger he got in my opinion like Khan's and Roger Mayweathers....

Leonard was great but he'd struggle with Mayweather...To say Leonard had more skill is just p*****g in the wind.....There is no evidence to suggest that..

Hit harder though...

He may not take it but does Mayweather hang around long enough to land something big, if Mosley can land two bombs on him imagine what Hearns could do

I'd say Leonard is the marginally more skilled of the pair but he is without doubt the bigger, stronger, harder hitting, durable (questionable) and most probably quicker of the pair which combined with the skill makes him a bigger challenge.

I'd pick Hearns to win....

THe fact Floyd has beaten so many good fighters suggests he as a vast skill range and for some other posters (not you) to dismiss him just kind of shows ignorance..

No one beats Floyd easily......

Truss if I was to pick anyone to beat Floyd easily it would be Hearns, i've been a strong defender of Mayweather on here for years now but even with Hearns' dodgy chin cannot see Mayweather winning more than 1/2 out of 10. Put him in with Leonard, Gavilan, Armstrong, Ross or Griffith and he stands a good chance but for me Robinson and Hearns are a bridge to far for him at Welterweight.

I'd love to see how someone like Pryor tries to deal with him at 140lbs though

Hearns KO's Mayweather inside 3 brutal rounds, too much power, speed and also the big reach advantage would make this a nightmare fight for Floyd.

Absolutely whilst quality like Primera and Shields take the WBA welterweight champion 6 and 12 rounds respectively just before the fight with Leonard!!!!!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Don't think Hearns takes the Hatton shot Ghosty....Hearns chin got better the bigger he got in my opinion like Khan's and Roger Mayweathers....

Leonard was great but he'd struggle with Mayweather...To say Leonard had more skill is just p*****g in the wind.....There is no evidence to suggest that..

Hit harder though...

Try watching Ray's olympic fights, most of his pro fights. Your getting wound up again because i don't share the same view as you, saying Sugar Ray Leonard had more skill, was faster and hit a lot harder than Mayweather is definitely a fair opinion that a lot of people would agree with. Sugar Ray would of beat him as well, too good and fast for him, he aint Baldomir or Hatton. Mayweather aint Hearns as well, who the Sugar Man dealt with.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He wouldn't have to outbox him....Nobody could outbox Hearns..

All about having the skill to get inside and land that one shot..

Interested in Ghosty's opinion but not yours because I'm sick of the way you put it across..

Shall i try swearing or calling people kids and saying i batter druggies in bars to put it across? i couldn't care less whether you care about my views, its not your forum and you don't dictate whether i can comment or not, it's interesting you say your not interested but comment on me saying he couldn't outbox Hearns mmmmmmmm interesting.

HumanWindmill wrote:Just to be sure that everybody knows where he stands, any personal insults will carry consequences. It's enough, now. If we wish this forum to grow and attract bona fide boxing fans we need to quit the childish spats and feuds, and it WILL be accomplished, one way or another.

I'd prefer it to be by mutual agreement.

You don't have to like each other. You DO have to adhere to house rules.

I respect that windy, but everytime i comment this guy says i'm not interested, i'm pathetic, that shouldn't be allowed. It wouldn't if i said it.

Private messaging is there for a reason Towzer

Young_Towzer wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Just to be sure that everybody knows where he stands, any personal insults will carry consequences. It's enough, now. If we wish this forum to grow and attract bona fide boxing fans we need to quit the childish spats and feuds, and it WILL be accomplished, one way or another.

I'd prefer it to be by mutual agreement.

You don't have to like each other. You DO have to adhere to house rules.

I respect that windy, but everytime i comment this guy says i'm not interested, i'm pathetic, that shouldn't be allowed. It wouldn't if i said it.

I'm not blaming any individual, Young_Towzer.

I don't need to, and I don't intend to. Everybody stops it, and stops it now. I have zero intention of pleading anybody's case with the other admins if he cannot cut the nonsense. It's ruining the board for everybody else and it is wasting my time.

I'm a bit late in giving my views on this, and I reckon a fair bit of what I say will have been covered already. But I'll give my view all the same.

At 147 lb, I think Mayweather beats Hearns once in ten, perhaps twice at the most. I honestly believe that he'd need Hearns to have a real 'off night.' As great a fighter as Mayweather is, in the Welterweight version of Hearns he'd be meeting someone with the antidote to just about everything he has to offer, and then some. I genuinely don't see any former Super-Featherweight getting the best of Tommy who, while a little more inconsistent against men of an equal / bigger size, usually looked imperious when he held the physical advantages.

I truly believe that there are only three or four Welterweights in history who could have beaten the Hearns of 1980-1981; Ray Leonard just happened to be one of them and, even then, he was behind on the cards when he stopped Hearns, despite the fact that he'd been having one of the best nights of his glorious career. However, unlike Leonard, I don't think that Mayweather has the power at 147 lb to take Hearns out, and nor is he as likely to take the fight to Hearns like Leonard did. So if he can't take him out, how does he win? Hearns was one of the few men who could claim to be the equal of Mayweather when it came to boxing on the outside, and given Mayweather's relatively small stature for a Welterweight, the 6'1" Hearns (with his freakish 78" reach) is just about the last person he wants to try counter-punching against.

Mayweather's defensive abilities mean that he may well survive the full twelve rounds, however if he tries to fight more aggressively than usual I think that a Hearns stoppage in the mid rounds is a real possibility. But my guess would be that Mayweather will try to get in once or twice, get a little discouraged by Hearns' jab and power, and box on the back foot, where he can't navigate Hearns' reach or boxing skills, which as mentioned earlier were very much comparable to Floyd's.

Hearns by wide UD, 116-112 or perhaps even 117-111 as far as I'm concerned.

Out of interest Chris who are the 3/4 men you give a chance against Hearns at Welterweight?

PM for you, Ghosty.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Out of interest Chris who are the 3/4 men you give a chance against Hearns at Welterweight?

Leonard of course, Robinson another obvious one, 'Barbados' Joe Walcott simply due to that, quite frankly, unbelievable knockout power he had (although he'd have to find a way to navigate the ridiculous height disadvantage he'd be facing), and perhaps Kid Gavilan, too. Obviously, the likes of Armstrong, Ross, Napoles, Griffith etc would have a chance so to speak, but I'd make them all heavy underdogs against Hearns at 147 lb. I truly believe that, had Tommy emerged a few years earlier / later than he did, he'd have reigned supreme for a long, long time at Welterweight, but alas we'll never know for sure.

Leonard, Robinson, Walcott and Gavilan the most likely candidates for me, though, and the only names I could really make the favourite or evens in a bout with Hearns at 147 lb.

Have always had Robinson, Leonard, Hearns and Gavilan as the stand out men of the weight, all of whom are fantastic, speaks volumes of both sugars that they hold wins over 3 and 4.

Will add Chris it's interesting you mention Barbados Joe but not Sam Langford who from all the accounts i've read got the better of him in their Welterweight title fight

True, Ghosty. Langford, in a sense, kind of slipped my mind as I never really think of him as a Welterweight (or a Middleweight, or a Light-Heavyweight, or a Heavyweight for that matter!) but you're right, if Walcott is involved then so too should Langford I suppose, even if he wasn't really a Welterweight.

It's interesting, I've argued that, with his record nineteen successful defences of the title and his wins over Ross, Zivic, Garcia, Arizmendi, Pacho, Montanez and Zanelli, Armstrong has every right to be called the greatest 147 lb fighter of them all; and yet, had he faced Hearns at that weight, I'd fear that 'The Hitman' may have taken his head off, metaphorically speaking. That's the beauty of boxing, I suppose.

Was only as I was in the shower that Walcotts fight with Langford jumped into my head, often like Fitzsimmons gets overlooked in these head to head match ups but do think at Welterweight or Middleweight we would have seen the best of the Boston Tar Baby.

Despite his 19 defences I can only find a place at 5 for Armstrong behind the aforementioned four which I fully understand is a good few places lower than most would put him

Some interesting perspectives chris/ghosty.

Whilst undoubtedly having the talent i'm not sure tommy would have ruled supreme for ages in any era. If he could have stuck to a boxing game plan he might, but not in his instinct for me. He happened to lose to another great in srl at welter, and would probably have moved up the weights because of his size anyway had that fight not happened (though perhaps not at as immediately). Bit imo, sooner or later he'd have been stiffed by someone, he's just that kind of fighter. A major threat to any welter ever on a one-off match up, including robinson, but for me he would never have had a monzon record.

Someone mentioned pryor v mayweather, that was my other potential fantasy match up and on a natural size basis probably a fairer one.

Many have said that it would take a good pressure fighter to beat mayweather, and watching pryor winging away at him would be fascinating. I opted for the hearns match-up as personally i see tommy's style and reach making him the type of fighter that pbf would struggle with more than say a pryor.

What a fight that would be though.

Of course until/if someone does actually beat pbf , what style would do the trick is all supposition.

A complete aside but this just reminded me of the hearns pryor amateur fight? A teenage tommy fighting at lightweight!

Of course we can summise though that Mayweather is forced to fight Hearns fight as all bar the brawling Tommy against Hagler was made to do...

Hate to say it but Hearns outpoints or stops Robbo, Leonard and anybody else at welter unless and it's a big unless they catch him....

Punchers chance for Mayweather as with anybody else....

Think Robbo outpoints Hearns whereas Gavilan could potentially walk him down

Don't know why everyone is getting so hot under the collar, at 147 Burley whoops the pair of em.

Forgot about Burley Jeff, he does stand a chance against anyone at the weight too

Robinson, Leonard, Hearns, Gavilan and Burley are the stand outs with Langford and even Fitzsimmons (who could probably make 147lbs quite easily) as capable of knocking anyone out at the weight

rowley wrote:Don't know why everyone is getting so hot under the collar, at 147 Burley whoops the pair of em.

....at the same time with both hands behind his back, pausing for fag and a jd, before taking out holman williams and the cocoa kid back to back later in the evening, no doubt

milkyboy wrote:

rowley wrote:Don't know why everyone is getting so hot under the collar, at 147 Burley whoops the pair of em.

....at the same time with both hands behind his back, pausing for fag and a jd, before taking out holman williams and the cocoa kid back to back later in the evening, no doubt

Damn right, glad someone other than me has finally woke up to the truth.

... yeh i've read the book too jeff

milkyboy wrote:... yeh i've read the book too jeff

Good man, every one counts, am still having little success in my campaign to get it on the national ciriculum but will keep plugging away

Only interested in reading about "World" champions myself