Martin Johnson has faith in his foreign legion

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Read More http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2011/07/07/martin-johnson-has-faith-in-his-foreign-legion-91466-29007469/#ixzz1RSp2XCmy

Got to second what DaveM has said. I don't have any problem with Morgan playing for Wales if that's the path he chooses, but I can't see how anyone can say it is fine for Morgan to play for Wales, then turn around and say that players like Hartley, Tuilagi and a few others shouldn't be playing for England.

TheGreyGhost wrote:I thought the story was that England failed to identify his potential, and disenchanted he wandered off to the states to take a look at American Football, where he *was* spotted by a Kiwi, taken to the heartland and trained in the ways of a master. As is now the firmly established trend, once England had seen the trimmed and packaged product, they wanted it. I wonder if this failure to spot or develop potential is what holds England back and why they recruit so many foreign mercenaries to both club and country.

In MJ's own words -

Having starred for England Schools in victories over their New Zealand and Wallaby counterparts in a three-nations tournament in Australia, Johnson received a call-up to play for a club called Tihoi in King Country, New Zealand, in 1989.

The invitation, in a letter from John Albert, the coach at Tihoi, offered a free flight, somewhere to stay and the opportunity to work. After working for a few months on local farms, he ended up with a job in a bank.

He quickly impressed, catching the eye of All Black legend Colin Meads, the president of the King Country side. Johnson was drafted and represented King Country for two seasons, playing 25 times in the second division of the national championship.

Johnson also met his future wife, Kay, during his two-year stint in New Zealand, which culminated in his selection for New Zealand Under-21 for their tour of Australia, where he played alongside the likes of Va’aiga Tuigamala, John Timu and Blair Larsen and against a Wallabies side that included another of the all-time great lock forwards, John Eales.

Johnson returned to the UK in 1990 as Kay wanted to travel.

“I would certainly have been honoured and proud to play for New Zealand had things worked out differently,” Johnson later wrote in his autobiography.

“Representing the All Blacks is massive, bigger than playing for any other country, because of the tradition and the history that goes with it. Ultimately, though, I am glad that it never happened. If I was ever going to make it as a full international, I wanted it to be in white, not black.”

If I remember from his autobiography, several other players out of that England Schools side also received invites from John Albert to come and play in New Zealand.

Sounds like New Zealand tried to poach him, eh?

Notch wrote:Sounds like New Zealand tried to poach him, eh?

Surely not! Having said that, the last time NZ poached an Englishman they won the World Cup so you can't blame them for trying again, poor lambs.

SafeAsMilk wrote:poor lambs.

Too funny.

nottins_jones wrote:Flutey, Hape and Hartley each learnt their rugby in NZ and have been capped by England

You do know Hartley has an English mother and he came over to England at the age 16 ? Flutey came over to better his life as he has said he would have probably ended up in prison if he stayed in NZ. Hape had already been resident in England for over 6 years before he played rugby union in England.

So from England "relying on overseas mercenairies" we have the list down to a (dubious) 2, one of them who is unlikely (Flutey) to play for England again. Well done for disproving your initial comment.

"Flutey came over to better his life as he has said he would have probably ended up in prison if he stayed in NZ."

I'm not sure that lax policing and lenient courts makes constitutes a better standard of living. But OK.

TheGreyGhost wrote:"Flutey came over to better his life as he has said he would have probably ended up in prison if he stayed in NZ."

I'm not sure that lax policing and lenient courts makes constitutes a better standard of living. But OK.

are you alleging that if Flutey had behaved in New Zealand as he has done in the UK, then he'd have been arrested and found guilty?
If so, what are you alleging he is guilty of?

Also, still waiting for you to show me where MJ referred to there being a "foreign legion" in the England squad, as you were claiming yesterday.

"You do know Hartley has an English mother and he came over to England at the age 16 ?"

Yeah thus learnt his rugby in NZ for 16 years.

"Flutey came over to better his life..."

Hmm, paradise and tropics or fish & chips in the rain? Must have planned the move to France for while then if his sole intention was to better his life. England must have been the pitstop.

Are you another snoopster by any chance nottins? (believing everything the media tells you). I'm pleased you're now coming around to Englands mercenary list which I pointed out.

nottins_jones wrote:"You do know Hartley has an English mother and he came over to England at the age 16 ?"

Yeah thus learnt his rugby in NZ for 16 years.

"Flutey came over to better his life..."

Hmm, paradise and tropics or fish & chips in the rain? Must have planned the move to France for while then if his sole intention was to better his life. England must have been the pitstop.

Are you another snoopster by any chance nottins? (believing everything the media tells you). I'm pleased you're now coming around to Englands mercenary list which I pointed out.

Learnt rugby in NZ for 16 years? I doubt Hartley was playing rugby from birth.

New Zealand is not in the tropics - it's about a dozen degrees too far south for that and I doubt that anyone would honestly consider it to be "paradise", nice enough place full of lovely people, but not paradise.

Idle and inaccurate, gamma double minus Jones.

nottins_jones wrote:"You do know Hartley has an English mother and he came over to England at the age 16 ?"

Yeah thus learnt his rugby in NZ for 16 years.

Not quite sure why you're going off topic from your post about him being one of the "overseas mercenairies". But I'm not quite sure he started playing rugby from the day he was born.

nottins_jones wrote:"Flutey came over to better his life..."

Hmm, paradise and tropics or fish & chips in the rain? Must have planned the move to France for while then if his sole intention was to better his life. England must have been the pitstop.

New Zealand is not in either of the tropics and certainly isn't a "paradise". Fish and chips is quite popular in NZ, there is even a fish and chip shop (well van) on Stewart Island. England being the pitstop to England ? As that's where he'll be playing this season.

nottins_jones wrote:Are you another snoopster by any chance nottins? (believing everything the media tells you). I'm pleased you're now coming around to Englands mercenary list which I pointed out.

You're the one that was believing everything in the Western Mail and using at as fact. We, well, you have now whittled the "mercenary list" down to two players, which is hardly England relying on "overseas mercenairies", is it ? at you.

Article in danger of turning into a WUM fest - sorry what am I saying 'in danger of'

So far NJ looking pretty stupid in my books but what do I know?

True enough lostin, time to call it quits lest it degenerate further.

Poor guys. I merely point out England's over-reliance on their foreign mercenaries, completely ignoring their giant pool of players and the so called fans resort to petty insults whilst posting off topic comments. Not my fault you can't produce decent players so have to poach NZ rejects. It's not like it stops at that either. There seems to be a shortage of skilled workers across the Severn, hence the work-force reliance on Kiwi's like KiwiRedDevil and TheGreyGhost. They're nice to you these Kiwi's aren't they.

nottins_jones wrote:Poor guys. I merely point out England's over-reliance on their foreign mercenaries, completely ignoring their giant pool of players and the so called fans resort to petty insults whilst posting off topic comments. Not my fault you can't produce decent players so have to poach NZ rejects. It's not like it stops at that either. There seems to be a shortage of skilled workers across the Severn, hence the work-force reliance on Kiwi's like KiwiRedDevil and TheGreyGhost. They're nice to you these Kiwi's aren't they.

You managed to produce the names of just two supposed poached NZ players. Hape came over to play rugby league and as you have been told countless times, Flutey came over to change his life around for the better. Not quite sure why you're venturing off topic.

Omg nJ... must resist biting - must resist discussing the 'economic miracle' of Wales....

OK there are some wonderful fantastic people in Wales doing their best in difficult times and sometimes in difficult circumstances - but then I guess they are just 'up themselves' - For the rest its all someone else's fault

Who uses the term 'omg' apart from teen-age girls?

gladly - its just that we are into a circular argument which seems to be just a continuation of a whole set of WUM debates from old 606.

Its run its course and the only place it can now go is downhill.

Lock it...

nottins_jones wrote:Poor guys. I merely point out England's over-reliance on their foreign mercenaries, completely ignoring their giant pool of players and the so called fans resort to petty insults whilst posting off topic comments. Not my fault you can't produce decent players so have to poach NZ rejects. It's not like it stops at that either. There seems to be a shortage of skilled workers across the Severn, hence the work-force reliance on Kiwi's like KiwiRedDevil and TheGreyGhost. They're nice to you these Kiwi's aren't they.

Ignorance truly is bliss.

I can't believe this is still going - the article was clearly trolling and though I replied for a while the Welsh guy is clearly offering nothing of use but just trolling.

It is a lot like being back on 606, and not in a good way.

This place is going downhill rapidly, same old WUMs from 606. Is it time to move on to an actual rugby forum perhaps...

Just read the article and I’m shocked that Wales online are able to get away with this xenophobic article.

Whilst I was at secondary school my rugby team had players from Scotland, Wales, Thailand, South Africa and Hong Kong, now this wasn't a Public school this was a normal secondary school in a sleepy town in Somerset.

Is it any wonder that so many nationalities are able to play for England due to duel residence when you consider how big the British Empire was!

The bigger question is why do these players decide to play for England over Wales & Scotland?

Maybe the views of these nations (both fans and heads of unions) need to move into the 21st Century.