Martin Johnson has faith in his foreign legion

Read More http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2011/07/07/martin-johnson-has-faith-in-his-foreign-legion-91466-29007469/#ixzz1RSp2XCmy

Any article that references Banahan as an overseas player having been born in Jersey is not worth the e-paper it's written on.

This is old news. Wales on Line are obviously struggling to find new news!

Could you image the headlines if he says "I'm not picking them because I don't think they're English enough". If that happened the I'd be on my down to Twickenham to call for him to go.

Tuilagis "shocking punch that felled Chris Ashton"?! Must have missed that one, the three I saw didn't "fell" him. I hate inacurate reporting.

Idle, banal and sooo boring - is TGG writing for the Mail now or what?

robbo277 wrote:Any article that references Banahan as an overseas player having been born in Jersey is not worth the e-paper it's written on.

Well its not in England or even Britain, and its over the sea.

I dont get all the obsession though. Wales have hardly any Englishmen in their side, and noone has a go at them.

Do we have to go through this again

Really clutching at straws with the likes of Simpson,Sharples and Simon Shaw.

I would like to see this reporter and maestegmafia tell these guys they aren't English to their faces.

Stevens has an English father and grandfather by the way. He is also one of the best choices available.

I wouldn't pick Hape,Waldrom,Fourie and Flutey not because they are foreign but because there are better players overlooked for these overrated players.

Botha is debatable too but he is better than Shaw in my opinion, Attwood is injured isn't he? Also Botha is an AP champion. Can any other locks bar Borthwick looking for England selection say that?

Anyway this is the pot calling the kettle black anyway. Every country has had their fair share of so called "foreigners".

Where's the yawn emoticon for this article when you need it!?

Why are you posting this inaccurrate, boring tripe ? Did you or TGG write the article ?

Did anybody actually interview Martin Johnson ? I wonder when they'll be writing similiar articles about France, Italy, New Zealand, Australia, Wales, Ireland, Scotland etc, etc ?

13 overseas players!!!! WOW.

I knew England had some but, nearly a whole team??

Bit of a disgrace if you ask me...

Boyne wrote:13 overseas players!!!! WOW.

I knew England had some but, nearly a whole team??

Bit of a disgrace if you ask me...

Where was Ronan O'Gara born ?

Boyne wrote:13 overseas players!!!! WOW.

I knew England had some but, nearly a whole team??

Bit of a disgrace if you ask me...

Ha, ha, naughty Boyne

O Gara was born in California and spent all most of his formative rugby playing life there (8 weeks).

His Dad was a professor on a work placement in Uni over there for a few months.

Hardly a "Tuilagi" situation.

O'Gara is American.

Something most Irishmen want to be. It's the Bud-Lite that bring them over in droves...

It’s a funny article.

Including Sharples, Corbisero and Simpson as ‘foreigners’ is completely laughable. They were are all born to English parents and came to England when they were very young children (under five). Simon Shaw and Matt Banahan aren’t English? Please!?! I’ll tell Matt that he has got to represent Jersey at international level shall I?

They criticise the selection of Manu Tuilagi, but I wonder what their views are on Toby Faletau, Ben Morgan or Andries Pretorious?

Tom Shanklin, Luke Charteris , George North and Jonathan Davies were born in England to Welsh parents, does that the therefore mean that they aren’t Welsh?

Bloody ridiculous and hypocritical article.

I'm not sure how English Corbisiero's parents are but didn't one of his grandfathers move to New York from Italy? Suggests one of his parents is American at least. Still he was in England from 4 years old.

Bit like the English cricket team - 6 South Africans in it. Might as well call it the SA second XI.

HammerofThunor wrote:I'm not sure how English Corbisiero's parents are but didn't one of his grandfathers move to New York from Italy? Suggests one of his parents is American at least. Still he was in England from 4 years old.

English mother, American father.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/8318386/England-v-Italy-London-Irish-prop-Alex-Corbisiero-brought-in-to-replace-injured-Andrew-Sheridan.html

Rob B wrote:Bit like the English cricket team - 6 South Africans in it. Might as well call it the SA second XI.

Which beat the SA 1st XI recently!

Cumbrian wrote:Bloody ridiculous and hypocritical article.

Well, it is walesonline which is like NOTW (without the phone-hacking). Still, some folk seem to lap it up ...

Cumbrian wrote:It’s a funny article.

Including Sharples, Corbisero and Simpson as ‘foreigners’ is completely laughable. They were are all born to English parents and came to England when they were very young children (under five). Simon Shaw and Matt Banahan aren’t English? Please!?! I’ll tell Matt that he has got to represent Jersey at international level shall I?

They criticise the selection of Manu Tuilagi, but I wonder what their views are on Toby Faletau, Ben Morgan or Andries Pretorious?

Ben Morgan and Andries Pretorious are not Wales players.

Faletau is a good example of Hypocrisy. He is a Tongan born player, with Tongan parents, who has been in Wales since age seven. I personally think he should play for Tonga, but he wants to play for Wales.

Cumbrian wrote:Tom Shanklin, Luke Charteris , George North and Jonathan Davies were born in England to Welsh parents, does that the therefore mean that they aren’t Welsh?

No Because they are Welsh and have Welsh Parents. Most of the 13 overseas players England have selected do not.

From a reply to a Guardian article about the "foreign" players in England's squad, and a suggestion that Corbisiero and Armitage rounding off the group would make junior coaches cry, by Corbisiero's dad (hopefully he won't mind me quoting it, as I think he made the point about how "foreign" his son is very well)

I think some of the innuendos in this article are unfair. The stats are what they are but take Alex as an example. His father me is American. I met my british wife Loraine when I was on a five year business assignment. We moved back to the United States for seven years where we had Alex and his sister Claudia and then returned back to the UK where we had another child Oliver. We have lived in England ever since ... Alex started playing mini rugby at 4 years of Age at KCS old boys then moved to London Scottish Cobham and London Welsh RFC's . He played for Surrey and along the way was invited to try out for EPDG at London Irish and then worked his way up ladder through the academy and on to the first team...... I struggle to see how he is a foreign import? Does spending summers with his grand parents in New York make him any less English?
I doubt Torqueil Gynell and Paddy Ralston, Alex mini rugby coaches at cobham wept because he showed up for practice ....... He still visits the club and one of his first shirts is on the wall there.
Delon was born overseas his mom settled in the UK with an English father , played club rugby and worked his way through the Academy at London Irish.... is he any less English?

What should Alex do get on a plane and train with the Eagles? Delon for some Caribean Club? Just because both possess one foreign parent doesn't make either of theany less English.

Rick Corbisiero aka Father of Beast

I think that last paragraph is really at the heart of it - most of the supposedly "foreign" players would be even more foreign playing for any team other than England

Rob B wrote:Bit like the English cricket team - 6 South Africans in it. Might as well call it the SA second XI.

Why should the England team adopt the name of it's official feeder team?

I am in America (New Jersey) for the summer. And I can tell you the US team would die for a chance to lock up a ROG or Corbs. But, alas, both players have flown their birth nest back to the cozier confines of their partial ancestral homelands. Cowards! Swine! Well, maybe not.

For guys like these, there is no reason to re-chew this same old biscuit. Raised in the countries they represent. For the other guys who come over as adults, still worth the discussion until we find the solution and re-write the rules. Then we can present our new rules to the IRB.

Snoopster,
That's a great quote. Thanks for posting it.
Can read the emotion in it as well.
100% agree with the sentiments.

The Wales online articles make me laugh, these articles always come out when they haven't anything good to say about the Wales team!

Boyne,

Tuilagi has spent his whole Rugby and School life here in Leicester, I think he deserves to be called english!

I know it's a low level dig, and its getting pretty yawnoriphic (TM), AND i DON'T MIND OUR cymru fella's dropping in for a quick dig, but Boyne - I'm deeply hurt, cut to the quick.

Let's look at the Irish 43 training squad......

Tom Court Australia
Brett Wilkinson South Africa
Mike McCarthy England
Jamie Heaslip Israel
Isaac Boss New Zealand
Ronan O'Gara USA


Pile of bellox isn't it, but glass houses etc etc etc.

As an instrument of journalism, the Western Mail has just about one thing going for it: it's not owned by the Dirty Digger.

maestegmafia wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:It’s a funny article.

Including Sharples, Corbisero and Simpson as ‘foreigners’ is completely laughable. They were are all born to English parents and came to England when they were very young children (under five). Simon Shaw and Matt Banahan aren’t English? Please!?! I’ll tell Matt that he has got to represent Jersey at international level shall I?

They criticise the selection of Manu Tuilagi, but I wonder what their views are on Toby Faletau, Ben Morgan or Andries Pretorious?

Ben Morgan and Andries Pretorious are not Wales players.

Faletau is a good example of Hypocrisy. He is a Tongan born player, with Tongan parents, who has been in Wales since age seven. I personally think he should play for Tonga, but he wants to play for Wales.

Cumbrian wrote:Tom Shanklin, Luke Charteris , George North and Jonathan Davies were born in England to Welsh parents, does that the therefore mean that they aren’t Welsh?

No Because they are Welsh and have Welsh Parents. Most of the 13 overseas players England have selected do not.

No, your manager just asked Morgan to turn down an England call so he still has the opportunity in the future. Now, looking into my eyes, not around the eyes into my eyes answer me this. If Pretorious turns out to be good enough (having already pledged his future to Wales), will or won’t he be picked?

All the players I quoted are English and have English parents too.


How do you define Most?

Stevens : English father
Hartley: English mother (came to England when he was 14)
Shaw: English parents (Lived in England most of his life)
Simpson: English parent (Came to England as a young child)
Sharples: English parent (Came to England as a young child)
Corbisiero: English parent (Came to England when he was four)
Armitage: Has and English step father, came through the London Irish academy.
Banahan: Do you seriously have a problem with this?

Manu Tuilagi came to England when he was thirteen and as Manu says himself:

Manu said: "I was born in Samoa and came over at the age of 13, so all my rugby pretty much has been learned in England and Leicester have been great for me every step of the way. You don't get anything free and easy there.”

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Manu-Tuilagi-ready-big-step-World-Cup-dream/story-12042805-detail/story.html

Not happy about some choices myself, but ‘most’ is just plain wrong.

Boyne wrote:13 overseas players!!!! WOW.

I knew England had some but, nearly a whole team??

Bit of a disgrace if you ask me...

Going by Wales Onlines criteria, Jamie Heaslip and Ronan O'Gara would be considered overseas players Boyne.

Rag

Seriously what a pathetic, recycled article; only written as a points scoring exercise against the English.

Seems some Welsh 'journalists' are nothing more than parochial wind-up merchants with a chip on their shoulder.

Notch wrote:Seriously what a pathetic, recycled article; only written as a points scoring exercise against the English.

Seems some Welsh 'journalists' are nothing more than parochial wind-up merchants with a chip on their shoulder.

I completely agree Notch, it makes you wonder if how of those "journalists" actually earn a crust.

Notch wrote: nothing more than parochial wind-up merchants with a chip on their shoulder.

Get it right Notch - it' s both shoulders

Boyne wrote:O Gara was born in California and spent all most of his formative rugby playing life there (8 weeks).

His Dad was a professor on a work placement in Uni over there for a few months.

Hardly a "Tuilagi" situation.

Well said boyne. I think it's pretty ridiculous when people clutch straws over a players birthplace. I remember the amount of straws clutched by the English over our Wales Rugby product George North after earning his first cap and it was rather silly. I mean it's not like we're the largest/richest Union and he's a former NZ Maori, former NZ RL player, a South African or a Tuilagi is it???

PenfroPete wrote:

Notch wrote: nothing more than parochial wind-up merchants with a chip on their shoulder.

Get it right Notch - it' s both shoulders

Apologies Penfro. Quite right

It is shocking though. The Welsh should take an example of how us rugby folk from Ulster are able to look at things in a... eh? Oh.

Carry on!

Notch wrote:
Seems some Welsh 'journalists' are nothing more than parochial wind-up merchants with a chip on their shoulder.

Notch, you should read Paul Ackfords column more often, you'd develop a much more balanced view on the anglo-welsh reporting - Ackford makes Anne Robinson look like a member of Owain Glyn Dwr

Boyne wrote:O Gara was born in California and spent all most of his formative rugby playing life there (8 weeks).

His Dad was a professor on a work placement in Uni over there for a few months.

Hardly a "Tuilagi" situation.

Guess what? Two of the players listed- Charlie Sharples and Joe Simpson- were born overseas to English parents and moved back to England as very young children. That's my entire point you've just missed

RubyGuby wrote:

Notch wrote:
Seems some Welsh 'journalists' are nothing more than parochial wind-up merchants with a chip on their shoulder.

Notch, you should read Paul Ackfords column more often, you'd develop a much more balanced view on the anglo-welsh reporting - Ackford makes Anne Robinson look like a member of Owain Glyn Dwr

I think he hates England and Martin Johnson more, going by some of his articles. He just peddles anger and niggle as he knows they sell.

"He just peddles anger and niggle as he knows they sell.."

Bit like a 606 poster then

The FACT is all those players who may have been born overseas ARE actually qualified to play for England, whereas some other countries have capped players who haven't actually been qualified to play for their country they've represented.......

nottins wrote:The FACT is all those players who may have been born overseas ARE actually qualified to play for England, whereas some other countries have capped players who haven't actually been qualified to play for their country they've represented.......

True. Frank Bunce should never have been capped by Samoa

RubyGuby wrote:"He just peddles anger and niggle as he knows they sell.."

Bit like a 606 poster then

Nobodies buying. that's just for Poopie and giggles [just trying out the swear buffer]

We started it all with Prince Obolensky. How dare he get an English cap after only living here since he was 1 year old.

HammerofThunor wrote:We started it all with Prince Obolensky. How dare he get an English cap after only living here since he was 1 year old.

'tis a fair point. He should have been told he should play for Russia... oh wait

Cumbrian

"No, your manager just asked Morgan to turn down an England call so he still has the opportunity in the future. Now, looking into my eyes, not around the eyes into my eyes answer me this. If Pretorious turns out to be good enough (having already pledged his future to Wales), will or won’t he be picked?"

Did our Manager ask Ben Morgan to do this??? An England Saxons call-up, hardly flattering.
Pretorious has been looking pretty good for the Blues and has pledged his future to Wales. When the time comes he'll likely get picked, probably as cover for no.8. Hardly suprising given our lack of 8's although it does send out the wrong message. It hasn't happened yet though but when it does feel free to come back and lets us know.

Until then...what about England, the largest Union, relying on overseas mercenairies instead of their players that have come through the England acadamies? You know there's something up with the transition into senior national level when this is happening.

nottins_jones wrote:Cumbrian

Until then...what about England, the largest Union, relying on overseas mercenairies instead of their players that have come through the England acadamies? You know there's something up with the transition into senior national level when this is happening.

Name ALL these "overseas mercenaries" that England are relying on.

nottins wrote:

nottins_jones wrote:Cumbrian

Until then...what about England, the largest Union, relying on overseas mercenairies instead of their players that have come through the England acadamies? You know there's something up with the transition into senior national level when this is happening.

Name ALL these "overseas mercenaries" that England are relying on.

Sure thing: Dylan Hartley, Shontayne Hape, Hendre Fourie, Thomas Waldrom, Mouritz Botha... Past-time mercenaries include Riki Flutey, Mike Catt, etc...

nottins_jones wrote:Cumbrian

"No, your manager just asked Morgan to turn down an England call so he still has the opportunity in the future. Now, looking into my eyes, not around the eyes into my eyes answer me this. If Pretorious turns out to be good enough (having already pledged his future to Wales), will or won’t he be picked?"

Did our Manager ask Ben Morgan to do this??? An England Saxons call-up, hardly flattering.
Pretorious has been looking pretty good for the Blues and has pledged his future to Wales. When the time comes he'll likely get picked, probably as cover for no.8. Hardly suprising given our lack of 8's although it does send out the wrong message. It hasn't happened yet though but when it does feel free to come back and lets us know.

Until then...what about England, the largest Union, relying on overseas mercenairies instead of their players that have come through the England acadamies? You know there's something up with the transition into senior national level when this is happening.

Yes he did LINK

Do you think he should just jump ahead of the Saxons? They aren't there to flatter him. Standard development has players go through the Saxons before making the step up.

Can we stop the silliness now? England aren't relying on foreign players. They're just not discriminating based on it. If they're legally qualified they're an option.

Someone is bound to start talking about grannygate soon (oops )

Oh and Hartley did come through the academy system. And he moved here when he was 16 not 14