Welsh world cup squad - wingers

This shold be pretty clear cut. But it isn't is it. Shane Williams is almost a cert. Halfpenny too, the kicking as well as being a very talented winger with pace and a fair amount of guile.

George North is the new part of the equation, he'll of a player and young too. Stoddart has had good form all year cam also play fullback. Jamie Roberts could do a demolishing job on the wing. Jon Davies has an eye for the try line, Scott Williams does too and has great pace.

That's a lot of options. So what do we do? I imagine it's four wingers in the squad. Maybe one who can cover another position like Stoddard as a full back or Roberts or north as a center come winger?

Jamie Roberts is not quick enough. I don't know what the Welsh management are on about when they say he's one of the quickest in the team...maybe over long distance but his acceleration is appalling. Jonathan Davies is a centre.

Therefore I have gone for Williams, Halfpenny (if fit) and North

It's good how you've included centres as wingers then forgotten Brew, even if he is unlikely to go.

I agree with Rev. Why miss out the top scoring Welsh winger in the ML, and put in two centres who never play there?

Brew's now been added

Personally I went for Shane Williams, Leigh Halfpenny and George North.

Don't agree with putting Roberts on the wing - he's not fast enough for international level and is far better as a centre.

Shane and Halfpenny are both certs (if fit). The remaining choice will depend a lot on who goes at centre I think. Byrne will go as full-back and I think Stoddart may go as a wing/FB.

That would leave a choice between North and Brew for the final winger spot. Personally I'd like Brew to be given a shot - he's improved a lot and has been outstanding for the Dragons. That doesn't necessarily mean North will miss out though as he could go as a centre/wing.

brew should be on a reserve list. if 1/2p doesnt make it then brew should go, but only as cover. north and shane are first choice. stoddard should be fit. if he is he takes the bench spot as wing and fb cover i previously gave to preistland.

I've gone for 4! Shane, 1/2p, North and Stoddart. My reasoning being that Stoddart and 1/2p could (I repeat COULD!) cover fullback if we are in dire straits.

I am a huge fan of Brew being the Dragons fan that I am but, just as in the club game, he needs a decent run of games to get his confidence and form. The Dragons offered him this, the other regions didn't, and it is at the Dragons where he produced his best rugby. Unfortunately for him, the nature of international rugby is that it comes in fits and starts and you have to make an immediate impact. He won't be given a run of games so I doubt he'll be able to build up the required time that he seems to need to play consistent rugby. I'd definitely have him on a reserve list though, espcially if Stoddart's thigh injury comes back to bite us.

Just to add that I was a huge fan of Halfpenny when he first came on the scene but he has disappointed in recent time. Yes, he's had injuries. However, his pace is not enough to get him tries. The team needs different tactics to put him into space to use his speed, granted, but at least with Shane he has something special in the box to get himself out of a crowded area and still get to the try line. North and Brew use strength and power to blast through to the try line (see Brew v Baa Baas). Halfpenny needs to develop a 'special move' to give him an added dimension because at the moment he looks far from a prolific try scoring wing.

shane, north and halfpenny and stoddart will go as fullback/fullback cover

1/2p has really good awareness, a really good rugby brain. he has good basic skills and a huge and accurate boot. his biggest problem is that because he is small he is comapred to shane. he isnt shane. he could be really good as a running fullback.

1/2p has a lot to offer wales, but he is injured and probably wont be able to give us his best in rwc2011

I have gone for North Williams Halfpenny and Brew meaning he will take Stoddard has cover for XV.

Out of all his options Brew is the only fully fit winger, Williams and Halfpenny have been out for a long time North missed beginning of season whilst Stoddard picked up injury recently.

I would say Williams and Halfpenny to start but who knows.

Why on earth would you want to play Jon Davies on the wing?

Dogtooth, I agree re 1/2p being an option at FB. I could see him being very similar, if not better, to Ben Blair at the Blues in that he has a very good running game and a very cpabale goal kicking option. In some ways 1/2p is wasted on the wing with Wales at the moment as he is better as a broken field runner than someone to just run straight down the wing in space. We don't give him space.

I didn't mean to compare him to shane, but due to his size ultimately he will be grouped by his limitations, and shane is in the same category/group of 'a bit small for international rugby'. Shane has a high try count and sets up a number of tries out of nother (although this is waning somewhat with age) so this offsets his limitations, but 1/2p IMO needs to either up his scoring rate or find another skillset (e.g. fullback) or he may end up being left our for being 'too small and not prolific enough'.

Halfpenny and Shane Williams for me.

Though after the world Cup Id like for Brew to be put on the left wing, with North on the other and Leigh Halfpenny given a chance at Full back.

Alyn, I do like the sound of that back 3. Pace and power in abundance. And time for future development. Good shout!

I agree that a post-worldcup shuffle is needed to build for the next one.

Stoddart will go as cover at 15. Davies and Roberts go as centres. Halfpenny, Williams and North go as wingers.

The only debate is whether you can find room for Brew, and that depends on the make-up of the rest of the squad. I think he's a good player personally, and if North can be shoe horned into being an option at 13, then there may be space to squeeze in Brew.

I'd start with Shane, Byrne and North.

north's handling isint good enough for a centre, i hate people talking about the future without shane- i am still gutted he will go, and in my mind i am still hoping he will go actually one more season.

and alyn, it sounds a good back three, but halfpenny hasnt played at 15 and may be useless there, and stoddart i think people need to remember has played well everytime he is in a welsh shirt, and also Byrne, now we dont know how going to france will affect him.

but overall the future for welsh wingers looks bright with halfpenny, north, brew, prydie, phillips etc

welshy824 wrote:north's handling isint good enough for a centre

Ah someone has been listening to Jeramy Guscott and his comments have stuck it seems!

welshy824 wrote:i hate people talking about the future without shane- i am still gutted he will go, and in my mind i am still hoping he will go actually one more season.

and alyn, it sounds a good back three, but halfpenny hasnt played at 15 and may be useless there, and stoddart i think people need to remember has played well everytime he is in a welsh shirt, and also Byrne, now we dont know how going to france will affect him.

but overall the future for welsh wingers looks bright with halfpenny, north, brew, prydie, phillips etc

Gerald Davies, Ieuan Evans and many other great wingers have retired it's part of life, people get l'm afraid
I also agree with your comments on Halfpenny and Stoddart. I didn't like stoddart but having watched more of him he looks like a very attack minded and exciting player, what does concern me is the Scarlets defence couldn't stop a determined 5 year old on a tricycle and I do worry about including too many of them in my team.
Though post World Cup I would like to see:

15 Leigh Halfpenny
14 George North
13 Jonathan Davies
12 Scott Williams
11 Aled Brew
10 James Hook
9 Tavis Knoyle

'couldn't stop a determined 5 year old on a tricycle'

You've used that before, Alyn - time to find a new one!

luckless_pedestrian wrote:'couldn't stop a determined 5 year old on a tricycle'

You've used that before, Alyn - time to find a new one!

Yes I use it when talking about the Scarlets defense, it suits them quite well!
And it's as true now as it was when I saw them play the Ospreys at the Liberty!

Thanks for all your posts lads, great read... sorry for forgetting Brew, not on purpose, just senility settling in for the final death rattle i guess.

maestegmafia wrote:Thanks for all your posts lads, great read... sorry for forgetting Brew, not on purpose, just senility settling in for the final death rattle i guess.

Ah there you are!
Don't forget about us, it's hard to have a constructive debate on here without you!
Work should not interfere with your posting time on this forum!

Ha ha ha... actually i was doing a bit of "do gooding" to increase the good khama...! Hopefully i can bank it and send it our way for the rugby.

These are interesting threads. Weird though how you double up on so many players across positions (who really won't play there) and leave out position specialists who might.

Davies and Roberts wing options... Really?

Williams, North, Brew.
Halfpenny, Stoddart - also likely to be fullback cover. That's all we have really. All great finishers but only one solid defender amongst them.

dogtooth wrote:1/2p has really good awareness, a really good rugby brain. he has good basic skills and a huge and accurate boot. his biggest problem is that because he is small he is comapred to shane. he isnt shane. he could be really good as a running fullback.

1/2p has a lot to offer wales, but he is injured and probably wont be able to give us his best in rwc2011

dog
Totally agree with you, I think your stand out wingers have been Stoddart and North , unless Shane and 1/2p show form these two must be the certs going into the Wc warm ups

Personally IMHO Byrne has been dire since the Lions tour, I think 1/2p should be your FB with two big wingers (North / Stoddart) covering him but personally I think that Shane Williams is still by far your most potent weapon if fit and I mean MATCH FIT

My Choice for you guys

15 1/2p
14 North
11 Williams

With Stoddart covering bench

However if you are looking at 2 FBs then I would seriously consider 1/2p and Stoddart before Byrne if he maintains his poor form in the training camps. If you are looking at 2 FBs then I would consider

FB
Halfpenny got to be just for his great left peg
Stoddart better defence than most people give credit

Wings
Williams (still can be the most lethal weapn)
North (2 debut try ....revealed on form he is your best winger by far)
Brew (Player of the year)

I've wanted to see Stoddart and North on each wing for a while now. I think we'd need a rush defence with that though, these two guys are vulnerable on a one-on-one when the attacker has a lot of space. I put this down to their height. Priestland at FB isn't a bad option but he isn't a big hitter.

Brew, Stodds, and Shane.

Wanted to put North in there, but I think that he came of the boil somewhat at teh back end of the season, dropping ball and over running passes. He is young and I think that this RWC may be a bit too soon for him, as if (and it is quite possible) we crash out in the pool stages the nation will be looking for a scape goat, and that is when things like over running passes etc get picked up on.

As awesome a player that halfpenny is, I couldn't justify him being in the squad this RWC - how much game time has he had this season exactly?(still more than Henson though) - he's gooing down the route of being to bulky - his frame just isn't cut out for being as large as he is in a high collisiion sport - he was a better player when he was lighter - Stoddart, Shane, North and Brew (he has been in form though I am well aware of the frailties to his game and Stoddarts, they both have a knack of scoring tries).

Dave, Halfpenny's lack of game time concerns me too but it's clear that Gatland isn't bothered about things like that.

ScarletSpiderman, I know what you mean about George North. Scoring two tries on his debut against the Springboks is bound to count in his favour with the selectors - rightly so - but it's worth remembering that both were relatively easy tries to finish at international level. He has tremendous potential and I don't mean to say otherwise, but it's worth bearing in mind how little first-class rugby he's played.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Dave, Halfpenny's lack of game time concerns me too but it's clear that Gatland isn't bothered about things like that.

ScarletSpiderman, I know what you mean about George North. Scoring two tries on his debut against the Springboks is bound to count in his favour with the selectors - rightly so - but it's worth remembering that both were relatively easy tries to finish at international level. He has tremendous potential and I don't mean to say otherwise, but it's worth bearing in mind how little first-class rugby he's played.

Very true re Gatlands selection policy - Mike Phillips being the other shinning example of this (all be it for differnt reasons) as he has had no game time at all of note this season. This is going to come across as a criticism but is purely more of an observation (again bearing in mind the ammount of senior rugby he's played) but I hope that he develop's another string to his bow beyond stepping inside his opponents to break the gain line - it is becoming quite predictible....

What was the name of the Bridgend centre, Adrian someone? A decent player with a great sidestep, but once teams knew that's all he had, they used to give him the outside and wait for him to sidestep in to them.

Halfpenny and North are both young and the future is bright for them; but ultimately, we could have Cedric Heymans on one wing and Sitveni Sivivatu on the other, unless we come up with a gameplan that gives them space to work with, we won't see the best of them.

Adrian Durston?

luckless - to be honest there are so many Welsh lads who were going to be the next big thing after their first season, that sadly were sussed out pretty soon after. The worrying think is we have a handful of those players in the national setup at the moment, and even though they have been found out they still remain.