2023 Season Thread

[Lowlandbrit]

First topic message reminder :

Mark Cavendish has ended up at Astana, Peter Sagan has said this will be his last season.

[dummy_half]

Are the rigours of this elite, high endurance sport making the riders more susceptible to "catching" Covid, I wonder?

Almost certainly - pushing your body that hard makes you susceptible to infections generally, and COVID now is little different from a cold or flu virus, in that most people have some sort of antibodies that prevents runaway illness but doesn't necessarily prevent infection.

I'd missed coverage of the ITT on Sunday, but caught a little last night, and particularly the interview with Evenepoel after - he did look unusually drained, so perhaps had some COVID symptoms.already affecting him. He did say he was disappointed with his TT and that he had been unable to maintain the pace to the schedule he should have been capable of on a reasonably good day..

[Lowlandbrit]

Apparently his team are the most rigorous testers in the peloton, still maintain most precautions, and yet are also the team that has been hit hardest by COVID.

Four more out today, down to a three man team.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Ah man, Geoghegan Hart has crashed and had to abandon today. Sivakov went down too and not sure if he finished the stage or not

At this point it's gonna be last man standing

[mountain man]

Rob Hatch has to be one of the most annoying commentators in the media.

Something happens and it's "crashcrashcrashcrashcrashcrashcrash", his affected way of over pronouncing any Italian etc names.
Yes he obviously knows his stuff but boy he is unlistenable. Add in Kelly who half the time seems a bit muddled and just offers bland stating the obvious sentiments and it's a bit dire.

Enjoying the racing but be glad when ITV4 with Boutling and Millar take over for TdF.

[Lowlandbrit]

Sivakov went down too and not sure if he finished the stage or not

Oscar Rodriguez was the only other dnf (there were also four other dns, two each covid and non-covid illness), although that may not mean he starts tomorrow.
Apparently TGH thought he'd broken his leg, so he might be out for a while.

[Azabache]

Millar, I believe, is the best commentator out there. I too can't wait for the TdF.

[mountain man]

BBC reporting Geoghegan Hart has fractured hip. Nasty.

For once weather in UK better than parts of Europe!

Right, time to don the lycra and daydream I'm a pro level cyclist as I puff and pant up the hills.

[dummy_half]

BBC reporting Geoghegan Hart has fractured hip. Nasty.

For once weather in UK better than parts of Europe!

Right, time to don the lycra and daydream I'm a pro level cyclist as I puff and pant and push the bike up the hills.

Fixed for you...

[mountain man]

I didn't have to push although I did fall off going uphill! Part of cleat on shoe snapped as I was climbing out of saddle and my momentum threw me off. Only a grazed knee fortunately and as it was a steep section I was only going slow so no real problems apart from copious swearing.
55miles and 5000ft of ascent so my little legs ache today.

[Lowlandbrit]

La Gazzetta reporting that Cav will announce he's retiring (presumably after the TdF) on Monday.

[dummy_half]

La Gazzetta reporting that Cav will announce he's retiring (presumably after the TdF) on Monday.

Reports seem to be saying end of the season rather than after the TdF.

I think a lot of casual fans don't realise quite how remarkable Cav's career has been, because he isn't a GC contender.
Equal most Tour de France stage wins,
3rd on the list of Grand Tour stage wins.
Won the Road World Championship plus track titles,
won a Monument.
161 road race wins rank him joint 3rd of all time.
Won the points classifications of all three Grand Tours.
Multiple other one day classic wins (Kuurne-Brussels-Kuurne, Scheldeprijs)

For a sprinter, there's not much else he could have done - was never quite a strong enough rouleur to compete in the cobbled classics, so the biggest race he had the capacity to win but didn't was Paris-Tours.

[mountain man]

For all his achievements in cycling I've never taken to Cavendish. He comes over as petulant and ungrateful if he loses and thinks it's all about him if he wins. Bit like Mansell was in F1. Maybe something in Isle of Man water.

I might be way off mark but that's just impression I have. Cant deny his ability though.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

La Gazzetta reporting that Cav will announce he's retiring (presumably after the TdF) on Monday.

Reports seem to be saying end of the season rather than after the TdF.

I think a lot of casual fans don't realise quite how remarkable Cav's career has been, because he isn't a GC contender.
Equal most Tour de France stage wins,
3rd on the list of Grand Tour stage wins.
Won the Road World Championship plus track titles,
won a Monument.
161 road race wins rank him joint 3rd of all time.
Won the points classifications of all three Grand Tours.
Multiple other one day classic wins (Kuurne-Brussels-Kuurne, Scheldeprijs)

For a sprinter, there's not much else he could have done - was never quite a strong enough rouleur to compete in the cobbled classics, so the biggest race he had the capacity to win but didn't was Paris-Tours.

Obviously the TdF wins will be held up as his major highlight, but for me the Road World Championship victory and his Milano-San Remo wins are his two best - just unbelievable sprints to win both of them, I still don't know how he overhauled Haussler for the MSR victory!

[Soul Requiem]

For all his achievements in cycling I've never taken to Cavendish. He comes over as petulant and ungrateful if he loses and thinks it's all about him if he wins. Bit like Mansell was in F1. Maybe something in Isle of Man water.

I might be way off mark but that's just impression I have. Cant deny his ability though.

When he was at his absolute best he waxed lyrical about Mark Renshaw and the HTC lead out train.

[mountain man]

Yeah well it's just impression I have of him, he doesn't come across as likeable but then again I don't know him so could well be wrong.
Don't think I'm only one who thinks this but anyway I don't suppose he cares and neither should he.

[Lowlandbrit]

For all his achievements in cycling I've never taken to Cavendish. He comes over as petulant and ungrateful if he loses and thinks it's all about him if he wins. Bit like Mansell was in F1. Maybe something in Isle of Man water.

I might be way off mark but that's just impression I have. Cant deny his ability though.

He was generally on the right side of the confident/arrogant line for me as the star sprinter, but there were certainly times he decided he was/should be bigger than the team he was on and they weren't pretty (partly because he wasn't winning much too). I'll always have a bit of a soft spot for him though, because when he broke through basically the only other British rider you saw was Millar (and maybe Wegelius).

[Azabache]

Terrific career over a remarkably long period. Nothing to be ashamed of or regretted, everything to be proud of.

Couldn't care less about any alleged or perceived personality foibles (Cf. Hinault, Sagan...name your own favourites!).

I just hope that he stays on the same no. of TdF stage wins to avoid silly comparisons with Eddy.

[Lowlandbrit]

Well now; realistically three contenders left, and not a good day for Roglic. Thomas probably the favourite to hold on, but Almeida looks very dangerous.

[Soul Requiem]

No matter how the final few stages go you can't help but have the upmost appreciation for Geraint Thomas; he's not a natural climber and early in his career was one of the very best super domestiques (Froome owed him a tour or a two) but his later career has seen him become a more than capable team leader. He's not a destructive climber like a Froome or Contador but he's very difficult to break as he showed in last years tour.

I'm hoping he manages to hold on, he deserves it.

[No name Bertie]

... I just hope that he stays on the same no. of TdF stage wins to avoid silly comparisons with Eddy.

Yet that is not his fault.  The past is the past and there was a time when everyone was a Lance Armstrong.  Graeme Obree said he never joined the Tour de France because of the expectation (from the top down) to take enhancements.   In the modern day it will be sprinters racking up the most stage wins and with everyone miked up and receiving information and instructions from team managers and in-race analyzers the days of the break-away winner have been greatly diminished.

Meanwhile surprised to hear that Geraint Thomas is back in the sports news pages.   Can he beat the great Roglic?  Seems to be three riders left in contention.

[dummy_half]

I'm not sure I'd say Thomas isn't a natural climber, but he is more of a grinder than an explosive smaller guy. At his very best he was capable of dominating Tour de France mountain stages by riding most off his wheel and then sprinting at the top. He has though historically had problems finishing races, in particular because he seems to crash more often than most of his competitiors, and particularly in quite spectacular ways (such as when he hit the parked motorbike at the road side a couple of years ago).

Just be aware that the race is far from over and the gaps to Almeida and Roglic are insignificant - while today and the final day are flat stages, tomorrow is a day where you could lose time (although looks made for a break-away - watch for Ben Healy again), Friday is a tough day with a 1st cat mountaintop finish at over 2300 m, and the mountain time trial on Saturday can best be described as brutal:
7.3 km climb averaging 12.1 % only half tells the tale.
First 4.75km of the climb AVERAGE 15.3% with pitches up to 22%, with another 1km near the top averaging over 11% and again up to 22% in places.
As a kid in Yorkshire, I've ridden up climbs as steep as that but never more than a few hundred metres long, and that leaves you wasted - trying to do this aerobically just beggars belief.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

What is the difference in terms of descending between Thomas, Almeida, Roglic? Aware listening to the Lanterne Rouge Cycling Podcast's preview that these upcoming stages might have some tricky descents (not 100% on that so do correct me!), and particularly as they lead directly onto final climbs for stage 18 and 19, might be a potential issue if someone is not great on them?

[dummy_half]

What is the difference in terms of descending between Thomas, Almeida, Roglic? Aware listening to the Lanterne Rouge Cycling Podcast's preview that these upcoming stages might have some tricky descents (not 100% on that so do correct me!), and particularly as they lead directly onto final climbs for stage 18 and 19, might be a potential issue if someone is not great on them?

In the context of these stage, probably not enough difference in their abilities to make an significant difference to the race overall. Descents before the final climb will be raced quite hard but not absolutely full bore unless someone important is off the front or the back. Physically, Thomas should have it easier as he's a bit bigger, but he has had a few spills over the years.
It's always good to have at least one of the stages finish after a major descent, as it tests a different skill. I also like the inclusion this time of a proper mountain ITT - takes out the tactical element and just shows who is the strongest on the day.

[dummy_half]

And with a couple of big stages left of the Giro, a few nominations for stars of the race (outside the first 2 or 3 on GC):
Eddie Dunbar, with a break through as a GC contender. Held on really well yesterday. Interested to see if he can repeat that toady (perhaps slightly more conservatively)
Sepp Kuss and Jay Vine - Epic mountain domestique performances yesterday
Ben Healy - 1st year as major pro and a first stage win plus 2nd on another stage
Derek Gee - Has there been a serious break all race with him not present? Multiple top 10 stage finishes, but always found a rider or two too strong for him in the final stages

[Lowlandbrit]

Roglic crushed the TT, and exorcises (some of) the demons from that Tour loss to Pogacar.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Shame for Thomas, but that final TT never looked like the sort of climb he would thrive on/prefer, still a great performance overall to finish 2nd.

Overall probably not a Giro that'll live long in the memory? Feels like Roglic was less than 100% after crashes and just about hung on enough to win on the TT, and Remco having to leave early meant the racing itself wasn't ever lit up properly as it might've been had he been around

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Cav signs of his Giro career with a stage win! Like the Cav of old that sprint, absolutely smoked them

[Azabache]

The writing was on the wall for Thomas before that final TT, but, hey, absolutely no disgrace at all in finishing second overall. Roglic has had accursed luck over the last few years in various races, so it was good to see him confirming that he is still a mighty threat.

[dummy_half]

Worth noting that Thomas was second in the ITT, better than Almeida by a couple of seconds, so it wasn't as though he had a bad ride even if he looked totally spent at the end - Roglic was very good on the day, and won the race (despite the mechanical) rather than G losing it.

Loved the impromptu lead out for Cav, with Thomas and Jake Stewart lending a hand - would have been even better to see Thomas doing that in the pink jersey. And watch the reaction after Cav's win - it is clear he has a lot of friends in the bunch.

[alfie]

Very much agree with dummy_half on this... that last couple of kilometres from Roglic was insane ! Especially with the mechanical which seemed only to spur him on...

He was just so far ahead of the field that Thomas would have needed something remarkable to hold him off. He really deserved the win !

Didn't sit up for the victory lap but delighted to find out later about Thomas channelling Wiggins to lead Cav in for the finish - lovely finish for the Manxman in Italy.

Probably too much to hope for something similar on the Champs Elysees later this year

[Lowlandbrit]

New sponsor alert: Trek-Segafredo will become Lidl-Trek from the end of June.

[formerly known as Sam]

Does anyone else thing some of the more powerful athletes that are maybe a step or so down from the top GC climbers might be asking their teams about getting gravel groupsets off the sponsors? It clearly worked for Roglic. A little extra gearing to stop them from red lining whilst trying to stay in touch on the climb could save valuable time.

[dummy_half]

Does anyone else thing some of the more powerful athletes that are maybe a step or so down from the top GC climbers might be asking their teams about getting gravel groupsets off the sponsors? It clearly worked for Roglic. A little extra gearing to stop them from red lining whilst trying to stay in touch on the climb could save valuable time.

It would only be needed on ridiculously steep climbs, and would only suit the riders who spin small gears quickly like Roglic and Froome. Also, being a single chainring setup, it's going to limit the top speed, so only has a benefit on summit finishes with no descending. Not to say it isn't potentially useful in some situations, but it isn't a game changer in terms of everyday equipment. Also, given how Roglic's chain jumped, there might be doubts about the reliability.

Actually, single chainiring setups are more likely to be beneficial on flatter stages, where a lesser range of gears is needed - a few riders have used them in Paris Roubaix for example, where you're unlikely to ever be off a big chain ring.

[formerly known as Sam]

Does anyone else thing some of the more powerful athletes that are maybe a step or so down from the top GC climbers might be asking their teams about getting gravel groupsets off the sponsors? It clearly worked for Roglic. A little extra gearing to stop them from red lining whilst trying to stay in touch on the climb could save valuable time.

It would only be needed on ridiculously steep climbs, and would only suit the riders who spin small gears quickly like Roglic and Froome. Also, being a single chainring setup, it's going to limit the top speed, so only has a benefit on summit finishes with no descending. Not to say it isn't potentially useful in some situations, but it isn't a game changer in terms of everyday equipment. Also, given how Roglic's chain jumped, there might be doubts about the reliability.

Actually, single chainiring setups are more likely to be beneficial on flatter stages, where a lesser range of gears is needed - a few riders have used them in Paris Roubaix for example, where you're unlikely to ever be off a big chain ring.

Yeah I was thinking more mountain top finishes ala Roglic as opposed to stage to stage use. They are popular at Paris Roubaix as a 1x rear derailleur with a clutch system should be less likely to drop a chain than a more standard 2x when exposed to bad road finishes.

Those relatively new gravel cassettes are massive you can go from 9-50t so descending shouldn't be a major issue as long as you can work around the big jumps on gears which are probably more of an issue on gradual climbs where you want to slowly work your way up the cassette. Though the pros are unlikely to need that extreme a cassette and it being 12 speed there should be options.

No use to the mountain goat riders but G might be asking Ineos and Shimano why he didn't have a Pinarello with that option as he likes to sit and spin. Van Der Poel might consider it as well if he's going to the Tour. Quick change as you approach the bottom of the big mountain and still have teammates to ensure you get back on.

[mountain man]

Excellent stage win by Alaphillipe in Dauphine today, looks like he's rediscovered form after a series of bad luck.
He's a class act.

[dummy_half]

Excellent stage win by Alaphillipe in Dauphine today, looks like he's rediscovered form after a series of bad luck.
He's a class act.

Good to see Alaphillipe back to some form - another of the top handful of all round riders who can win a race or a stage on almost any terrain. Out sprinted several of the top bunch sprinters in a lumpy finale - I think the actual finish was relatively flat, but with a short steep climb around 1 km to 500 m to drain the punch from the bigger more powerful riders (after a series of similar bumps through the last several km)

[mountain man]

Blimey so many crashes today, Alaphillipe involved in one but fortunately ok.

[Azabache]

And a hairy finish needing the commissaires to alter placings.

All good practice for the mad early stages of the Tour to come!

[dummy_half]

Blimey so many crashes today, Alaphillipe involved in one but fortunately ok.

Looked to be a bad route for pinch points, random traffic islands etc. Seems to be rather an issue in the races I've watched recently that the last few kms have been mostly on wide roads but with spots where it narrows down significantly - there was one in the giro where Cav got taken out about 4 km from the finish; can't blame Cav for being too far back in the bunch (although maybe for being on the edge of the road), he was in the third line of riders, and the switch through the bunch nearly took out Evenepoel who was in the second line protecting the pink jersery.

a peloton of 150+ riders travelling at 50 km/h needs either more predictable run-ins or improvements in the marshalling of the races. We're talking about big World Tour races here, not Tuesday evening crits around Antwerp. Too much of racing is being left to luck at the moment.

[mountain man]

Vingegaard looked a bit ragged towards end of TT, he definitely went out too fast so looked like he was suffering at end.
No doubt Pogacar looking on from his training camp with interest!

[mountain man]

That aged well!

Vingegaard superb win today and into yellow. Super ride

[mountain man]

Vingegaard imperious today, attacked with 5km to go and blew them away. Decent 2nd place by Yates.
Can't believe how big a gear those guys can turn on double digit gradients. I'd be in my lowest from start of climb.

[Lowlandbrit]

Vingegaard imperious today, attacked with 5km to go and blew them away. Decent 2nd place by Yates.
Can't believe how big a gear those guys can turn on double digit gradients. I'd be in my lowest from start of climb.

Please stop cluttering up this thread with your rugby talk.

[mountain man]

[mountain man]

Brutal finish to Dauphine, that final climb looked horrendous.
Vingegaard never in doubt for GC and an excellent 2nd place for Adam Yates which bodes well for UAE for Tour.

Roll on 1st July!

[Azabache]

I was interested in Bernal's performance. Are the pundits wise to write him off?

We have almost a month, after all, before the Tour starts.

Re. Ciccone, let's hope the heir to The Shark has been found!

[mountain man]

Bernal looks shadow of what he was when he won Tour, can't see him being a contender and I agree with Boutling and Millar that Ineos probably be looking at Pidcock for GC but as you say never know.

I think if Vingegaard had gone earlier he would have caught Ciccone but he did the sensible thing and ensured overall rather than risk attack too soon and blow up and lose out. Go too deep on that final km and the doors could fall off badly.

In hindsight it looks like Jonas TT was just a strategy error rather than lack of form, he just went out too quick.

I dont think he's being modest saying he has more to come, he comes across as a straight talker so the duel with him and Pogacar going to be brilliant. I bet Pogacar has been beasting himself the last week in training.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I am not sure Bernal will ever reach a level where he can compete on GC at the Tour again, but I do think he can get to a level where he'd be a serious threat to win a stage from a breakaway.

[Azabache]

Cheers all-maybe it's a case of wishful thinking on my part.

It's almost unbelievable that Bernal came on the scene so young those few years ago, changed to Sky/Ineos, won the Tour (a stage was shortened due to a landslide but he was going to win anyway)-many thought that we were seeing the next few years as Bernal years, but back problems and Covid lockdowns hindered his march-oh-and two gentlemen from Slovenia appeared!

Nevertheless, he won the Giro in adversity, and appeared to be managing the back issues, before his training mishap in Colombia.

We will see.....

[formerly known as Sam]

Ineos look like they've got a number of future stars but are lacking current punch at GC level. Made worse by Geoghan-Hart's injury, he really had a great chance to win a second Giro. Thomas is reliable. After that they're hoping for a Bernal recovery.

Sheffield and Pidcock look like possible GC winners in future years but not this season. Pidcock needs to concentrate on the road and Sheffield is still a teenager. They might snag some stage wins though a lack of TT time doesn't help them.

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