Brexit

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"man that negotiated the Australia deal with the EU" - Who is this man? I only ask because Australia don't have a deal with the EU; they are, however, in the process of negotiating one.

In this weeks episode of “no one could have predicited this except for all the people who did”, turns out we’re running out of petrol because we cant get HGV drivers to get it where it needs to be.

I suppose if you stop people being able to drive to the shops they wont notice the empty shelves. Smart move.

Anyone who voted for this about ready to admit it wasnt a good idea yet?

Samo wrote:In this weeks episode of “no one could have predicited this except for all the people who did”, turns out we’re running out of petrol because we cant get HGV drivers to get it where it needs to be.

I suppose if you stop people being able to drive to the shops they wont notice the empty shelves. Smart move.

Anyone who voted for this about ready to admit it was a good idea yet?

So long term decisions should be judged on the short term?

Clearly not, Samo

Sunlit uplands will perpetually be just around the corner

BamBam wrote:Clearly not, Samo

Sunlit uplands will perpetually be just around the corner

Ye, but we can't get there because we have no fuel to drive to them...

The refusal to ease restrictions on HGV drivers, at least on a temporary basis, appears to be a case of ideology outweighing pragmatism, when we are in a situation where pragmatism is required.

Soul Requiem wrote:

Samo wrote:In this weeks episode of “no one could have predicited this except for all the people who did”, turns out we’re running out of petrol because we cant get HGV drivers to get it where it needs to be.

I suppose if you stop people being able to drive to the shops they wont notice the empty shelves. Smart move.

Anyone who voted for this about ready to admit it was a good idea yet?

So long term decisions should be judged on the short term?

We were warned this would happen 5 years ago, and its been downhill since. How much longer do you want to give it before these supposed benefits manifest themselves?

Samo wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

Samo wrote:In this weeks episode of “no one could have predicited this except for all the people who did”, turns out we’re running out of petrol because we cant get HGV drivers to get it where it needs to be.

I suppose if you stop people being able to drive to the shops they wont notice the empty shelves. Smart move.

Anyone who voted for this about ready to admit it was a good idea yet?

So long term decisions should be judged on the short term?

We were warned this would happen 5 years ago, and its been downhill since. How much longer do you want to give it  before these supposed benefits manifest themselves?

In the almost nine months since we actually withdrew from the EU, probably a longer timeframe than that.

Just around the corner, you wait and see

We have to be careful about timescale in politics. The Tories are still doing their best to blame all ills that they can't put on Covid or the EU on the last Labour government which was more than 11 years ago.

Maybe its just me, but granting nearly 10,000 temporary visas to EU hauliers and poultry workers to get us through Christmas isnt exactly a sign this Brexit thing is working.

Bloody foreigners, coming over here saving our Christmas.

Why would the HGV drivers come?

Dont they need us more than we need them?

The OBR are now saying that the long term impact of Brexit will be double - thats double - what the pandemic will be.

Didnt see that on the side of a bus. So much winning.

Samo wrote:The OBR are now saying that the long term impact of Brexit will be double - thats double - what the pandemic will be.

Didnt see that on the side of a bus. So much winning.

That means what in actual terms?

Soul Requiem wrote:

Samo wrote:The OBR are now saying that the long term impact of Brexit will be double - thats double - what the pandemic will be.

Didnt see that on the side of a bus. So much winning.

That means what in actual terms?

The impact of Brexit on the UK economy will be worse than that caused by the pandemic, according to the chairman of the UK fiscal watchdog.

Richard Hughes said the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) had assumed leaving the EU would “reduce our long run GDP by around 4%”, adding in comments to the BBC: “We think that the effect of the pandemic will reduce that (GDP) output by a further 2%.”

Gross domestic product – or GDP – is a measure of the size of the economy.

“In the long term it is the case that Brexit has a bigger impact than the pandemic”, Hughes told the broadcaster, hours after the OBR responded to Rishi Sunak’s latest budget by saying it expected inflation to reach 4.4% while warning it could hit “the highest rate seen in the UK for three decades”.

In real terms, the pound in your pocket will be worth nearly 5% less than it was.

It's another good headline but again you're not really explaining what impact that will have on me or anyone else?

There will be better analysis out there but what I think it means is that often government gamble future necessary increases in spending on economic growth so they don't have to raise taxes. Less growth means more taxes to cover the shortfall.

I have seen plenty of suggestions that there will be substantial tax rises on the way.

Soul Requiem wrote:It's another good headline but again you're not really explaining what impact that will have on me or anyone else?

I see you're finding this quite difficult.

This not good. Remain better. Still many foreigners.

How's that?

Soul Requiem wrote:It's another good headline but again you're not really explaining what impact that will have on me or anyone else?

If inflation rises 5% and your wages dont then you'll be worse off every month than you were. Its not that complicated.

Pr4wn wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:It's another good headline but again you're not really explaining what impact that will have on me or anyone else?

I see you're finding this quite difficult.

This not good. Remain better. Still many foreigners.

How's that?

So not able to answer what is a very simple question.

Samo wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:It's another good headline but again you're not really explaining what impact that will have on me or anyone else?

If inflation rises 5% and your wages dont then you'll be worse off every month than you were.  Its not that complicated.

Macroeconomics isn't that complicated? The very point of my post was to highlight that it is very complicated and to reduce it to single lines does nothing to explain how individuals are affected by economic decisions. What has a big impact on your life may have next to no impact on mine and vice versa.

Soul Requiem wrote:

Samo wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:It's another good headline but again you're not really explaining what impact that will have on me or anyone else?

If inflation rises 5% and your wages dont then you'll be worse off every month than you were.  Its not that complicated.

Macroeconomics isn't that complicated? The very point of my post was to highlight that it is very complicated and to reduce it to single lines does nothing to explain how individuals are affected by economic decisions. What has a big impact on your life may have next to no impact on mine and vice versa.

Just how far down the rabbit hole have you gone?!

Soul Requiem wrote:

Samo wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:It's another good headline but again you're not really explaining what impact that will have on me or anyone else?

If inflation rises 5% and your wages dont then you'll be worse off every month than you were.  Its not that complicated.

Macroeconomics isn't that complicated? The very point of my post was to highlight that it is very complicated and to reduce it to single lines does nothing to explain how individuals are affected by economic decisions. What has a big impact on your life may have next to no impact on mine and vice versa.

Do you have a different currency to me? Unless you do then this will affect you exactly the same as it will affect me.

Samo wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

Samo wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:It's another good headline but again you're not really explaining what impact that will have on me or anyone else?

If inflation rises 5% and your wages dont then you'll be worse off every month than you were.  Its not that complicated.

Macroeconomics isn't that complicated? The very point of my post was to highlight that it is very complicated and to reduce it to single lines does nothing to explain how individuals are affected by economic decisions. What has a big impact on your life may have next to no impact on mine and vice versa.

Do you have a different currency to me?  Unless you do then this will affect you exactly the same as it will affect me.

How do you figure that one out? An individuals personal circumstance make a massive difference. For instance are you a home owner or do you rent?

Soul Requiem wrote:

Samo wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

Samo wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:It's another good headline but again you're not really explaining what impact that will have on me or anyone else?

If inflation rises 5% and your wages dont then you'll be worse off every month than you were.  Its not that complicated.

Macroeconomics isn't that complicated? The very point of my post was to highlight that it is very complicated and to reduce it to single lines does nothing to explain how individuals are affected by economic decisions. What has a big impact on your life may have next to no impact on mine and vice versa.

Do you have a different currency to me?  Unless you do then this will affect you exactly the same as it will affect me.

How do you figure that one out? An individuals personal circumstance make a massive difference. For instance are you a home owner or do you rent?

What point are you trying to make here? That it'll all be ok? That Brexit is somehow good?

I genuinely have no idea what point he is trying to make. I dont see how either renting or owning a home makes any difference to the fact my weekly shop could get 5% more expensive.

Samo wrote:I genuinely have no idea what point he is trying to make. I dont see how either renting or owning a home makes any difference to the fact my weekly shop could get 5% more expensive.

Home owners are less affected by inflation than renters, your weekly shop isn't the only thing affected by inflation. Dear oh dear.

Soul Requiem wrote:

Samo wrote:I genuinely have no idea what point he is trying to make. I dont see how either renting or owning a home makes any difference to the fact my weekly shop could get 5% more expensive.

Home owners are less affected by inflation than renters, your weekly shop isn't the only thing affected by inflation. Dear oh dear.

Oh so you do understand inflation, you just pretend not to whenever it suits.

I just like to highlight how you and Pr4wn have no substance to your postings. Hell you thought inflation only affected your food shop and you now attempt to dial it back and save face. It's not working.

Soul Requiem wrote:I just like to highlight how you and Pr4wn have no substance to your postings. Hell you thought inflation only affected your food shop and you now attempt to dial it back and save face. It's not working.

When did I say it only affects food shopping? You asked for a real world example and I gave you one

State of it.

Samo wrote:I genuinely have no idea what point he is trying to make. I dont see how either renting or owning a home makes any difference to the fact my weekly shop could get 5% more expensive.

Hmmmm yes of course.

Soul Requiem wrote:I just like to highlight how you and Pr4wn have no substance to your postings. Hell you thought inflation only affected your food shop and you now attempt to dial it back and save face. It's not working.

Actually embarrassing yourself

Pr4wn wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:I just like to highlight how you and Pr4wn have no substance to your postings. Hell you thought inflation only affected your food shop and you now attempt to dial it back and save face. It's not working.

Actually embarrassing yourself

If you end a sentence with an emoji it must be true. When you feel like posting something of substance, go ahead.

So the crux of the argument is that inflation is going up 5 percent which means everybody has to find 5% more for their weekly shop etc etc.

Soul says no, it doesn't affect everyone cause homeowners and renters are different.

do they get a discount that takes away the inflation.

You've dug yourself into a hole their souly fella. Whether you've got 80 million or 80 quid in the bank your going to be paying more money, whether you notice it is another thing all together.

Derbymanc wrote:So the crux of the argument is that inflation is going up 5 percent which means everybody has to find 5% more for their weekly shop etc etc.

Soul says no, it doesn't affect everyone cause homeowners and renters are different.

do they get a discount that takes away the inflation.

You've dug yourself into a hole their souly fella. Whether you've got 80 million or 80 quid in the bank your going to be paying more money, whether you notice it is another thing all together.

I said it affects everyone differently which is a fact. If you're a homeowner with a fixed rate mortgage or you own your home outright that is a cost that will not be changing. If you're a private renter there is a high chance that your landlord who will be subject to the same increases will put your rent up to cover their higher costs. Inflation does not just affect your weekly shop and it's quite worrying that people think that.

There is also the fact not everybody will see an increase on their shopping, it depends what you buy and is affected by whether you are a parent or not. You don't just add 5% to your current shop and arrive at the new figure, some items may increase by 2% and others 6%. It is also to assume that all people have a uniform yearly pay rise, some people in real terms will not be spending any more money.

Soul Requiem wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:So the crux of the argument is that inflation is going up 5 percent which means everybody has to find 5% more for their weekly shop etc etc.

Soul says no, it doesn't affect everyone cause homeowners and renters are different.

do they get a discount that takes away the inflation.

You've dug yourself into a hole their souly fella. Whether you've got 80 million or 80 quid in the bank your going to be paying more money, whether you notice it is another thing all together.

I said it affects everyone differently which is a fact. If you're a homeowner with a fixed rate mortgage or you own your home outright that is a cost that will not be changing. If you're a private renter there is a high chance that your landlord who will be subject to the same increases will put your rent up to cover their higher costs. Inflation does not just affect your weekly shop and it's quite worrying that people think that.

There is also the fact not everybody will see an increase on their shopping, it depends what you buy and is affected by whether you are a parent or not. You don't just add 5% to your current shop and arrive at the new figure, some items may increase by 2% and others 6%. It is also to assume that all people have a uniform yearly pay rise, some people in real terms will not be spending any more money.

Again. Nobody is claiming that. Its just the easiest real world example of how inflation works that will affect every person in the country.

I think we can all agree that something that has a negative impact on the majority of people in the country is a bad thing.

As Samo says Souly, peoples outgoings will rise, it won't all be the same, it won't affect everything in the same way but it will rise. That is not a good thing at this time what with a lot of people living month to month

Samo wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:So the crux of the argument is that inflation is going up 5 percent which means everybody has to find 5% more for their weekly shop etc etc.

Soul says no, it doesn't affect everyone cause homeowners and renters are different.

do they get a discount that takes away the inflation.

You've dug yourself into a hole their souly fella. Whether you've got 80 million or 80 quid in the bank your going to be paying more money, whether you notice it is another thing all together.

I said it affects everyone differently which is a fact. If you're a homeowner with a fixed rate mortgage or you own your home outright that is a cost that will not be changing. If you're a private renter there is a high chance that your landlord who will be subject to the same increases will put your rent up to cover their higher costs. Inflation does not just affect your weekly shop and it's quite worrying that people think that.

There is also the fact not everybody will see an increase on their shopping, it depends what you buy and is affected by whether you are a parent or not. You don't just add 5% to your current shop and arrive at the new figure, some items may increase by 2% and others 6%. It is also to assume that all people have a uniform yearly pay rise, some people in real terms will not be spending any more money.

Again. Nobody is claiming that. Its just the easiest real world example of how inflation works that will affect every person in the country.

I think we can all agree that something that has a negative impact on the majority of people in the country is a bad thing.

A good point in this strange discussion. Just because some people own houses doesn't mean they can't emphasise with the those stuck renting due to ridiculous rents and living costs constantly rising.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1534017/UK-trade-data-post-Brexit-GDP-EU-evg

Alexa: is that what “holding all the cards” looks like?

Liz Truss appointed new lead negotiator after Lord Frost Frak off.

Part of me feels like she’s being stitched up, so that when it all goes to Poopie they can point fingers and blame her for being a remainer. Interesting that a Rees-Mogg or a Steve Baker werent jumping at the chance.

Frost expecting the public to believe that Plan B had anything to do with his resignation is hilarious. The realities of Brexit really are starting to bite and, just as it was predicted, we don't hold any cards at all.

Typical Brexiter. VERY good at moaning but completely incapable of coming up with any solutions because he'd dug himself into such a deep hole with the ludicrous lies he'd told and promises he'd made.

The chief negotiator operates at the place where reality and Brexit fantasy collide. Everybody who takes that role gets chewed up and spat out at some point.

She has been one of the favourites to take over as PM, I have no idea why.

lostinwales wrote:The chief negotiator operates at the place where reality and Brexit fantasy collide. Everybody who takes that role gets chewed up and spat out at some point.

She has been one of the favourites to take over as PM, I have no idea why.

Something to do with pork markets, I think....

A Treasury Committee report into October’s Autumn Budget and Spending Review highlighted that the UK Shared Prosperity Fund is worth just 60 per cent of the EU Structural Investment Fund it is replacing.

The UK Shared Prosperity Fund, which is due to be launched this April, was described in the Spending Review as the “centrepiece” of the Government’s levelling up ambitions and is due to be worth £1.5bn a year by 2024/25. But the committee’s report highlighted that it is the replacement for the EU Structural Fund programme, which it said had been worth £2.5bn a year before Brexit.

But atleast we’ve got our blue passports eh?

The BBC have finally reported on the queues at Dover. It's a quietly damning article. Spells it out calmly and clearly: Brexit has damaged trade, and it's no blip.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60161094

Well fancy that!

'UK firms have been hit by "increased costs, paperwork and border delays" as a result of Brexit, MPs have said.

'A report from parliament's spending watchdog, the Public Accounts Committee (PAC), said it "was clear" that leaving the EU was having an impact on UK trade volumes.

'It also warned things could worsen this year as new import controls come in.

'Meg Hillier says the PAC has repeatedly reported on Brexit preparedness, and there have been delays to promised deadlines at every stage.

'"It's time the government was honest about the problems rather than overpromising," she said.'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60308494

Strangely, anyone who warned of this kind of thing in the run up to the vote was accused of scaremongering.
#ProjectReality

JuliusHMarx wrote:Strangely, anyone who warned of this kind of thing in the run up to the vote was accused of scaremongering.
#ProjectReality

I also strongly suspect the food price rises coming have a lot more to do with Brexit too. That was forecast but blame is trying to be placed on energy price rises.

JuliusHMarx wrote:Strangely, anyone who warned of this kind of thing in the run up to the vote was accused of scaremongering.
#ProjectReality

Its what happens when you squash it in between accusitions of racism and stating that if you vote Brexit that's all you are. Said it before, said it again, should have just gone with facts and left the jingoism out of it.

Derbymanc wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:Strangely, anyone who warned of this kind of thing in the run up to the vote was accused of scaremongering.
#ProjectReality

Its what happens when you squash it in between accusitions of racism and stating that if you vote Brexit that's all you are. Said it before, said it again, should have just gone with facts and left the jingoism out of it.

The facts never supported Brexit. It is a faith based initiative and fairly immune to facts as long as they can be explained away on other reasons however tenuous. Reality cannot be avoided forever though.

(I am sure this is the primary reason that Labour stay well away from directly attacking it.)

Derbymanc wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:Strangely, anyone who warned of this kind of thing in the run up to the vote was accused of scaremongering.
#ProjectReality

Its what happens when you squash it in between accusitions of racism and stating that if you vote Brexit that's all you are. Said it before, said it again, should have just gone with facts and left the jingoism out of it.

Not everyone who voted Brexit is a racist, but I'd wager that the vast majority of racists voted Brexit.

Brexit was won on jingoism, because once the facts deconstructed any argument for leaving all that was left was the jingoism.