Bob Willis Trophy

First topic message reminder :

Been a while since i posted on here, hope everyone is well.

Firstly RIP Bob Willis, a proper legend.


With cricket getting underway in 2 days time i suppose i should start the thread!

Yes, Somerset have taken the attack to Essex. Another fine innings from Lammonby in a breakthrough season for him. But it will take an inspired bowling effort to win the title from here, though pressure might do funny things to the side batting last.

Might get a drop or two of rain this evening as well...some heavy clouds lurking.

Third century in three matches (all coming in the second innings) for Tom Lammonby, it's only his fifth first class match.

Excellent innings from Lammonby just when needed. Byrom is gone now...but at 167/3 Somerset have a chance of setting some sort of target for the last day ; and maybe that pressure could do things...

Would be a damn shame if rain cut things short tonight.

155/1 to 204/6...trying to move the score quickly eventually equals a price. Lammonby out for 116.

Lead currently at 168, Somerset will like at least another 80 on top of that.

Looks like it will be an early finish so game is pretty much Essex's to lose from here. Never easy batting last of course but its not like Somerset can bat too aggressively with little batting left.

Would be better if Essex can win the game properly but the first innings rule really gives them the upper hand knowing they can just hang on for a draw tomorrow.

Somerset's lead at 191 with seven wickets down, play prematurely ending with rain/bad light. Should be a thrilling conclusion tomorrow.

Tom Lammonby is definitely one to look out for next season it appears. Another tremendous knock today.

Weather looks okay for tomorrow? Just whether bad light intervenes early. Would seem a uphill task for the Cidermen, but if they can get Cook early it might set some wobbles down the rest of the Essex line up and even sans Brook there is plenty of quality in Overton/Gregory/Davey and (fingers crossed) Leach!

67.5 overs bowled by Essex this innings... 62.5 send down by just three bowlers!

guildfordbat wrote:

alfie wrote:Didn't really expect the tension today , to be honest...rather expected an Essex lead.
But if Somerset can set some kind of a last day target , we might see a good finish on Sunday...

Rather be on Essex right now though.

For sure, Alfie.

Somerset need to not only score runs but also take 10 wickets. As long as the rain holds off, they've just about got enough time but it'll still be mighty difficult. Harmer is a tremendous asset for Essex. He did little in Somerset's first dig but will still start today on a hat trick. Not often he goes through a county match without making a significant impact.

I only followed the end of Essex's innings on cricinfo. Even though Essex did well to get the lead and bat the 120 overs, I was surprised there didn't seem to be much attempt at any impetus from Wheater in the final 2 or 3 overs. Is that fair comment?

Also, I see Brooks only bowled 9 overs. Did he go down with an injury? Cheers.

From the report on the Independent - certainly seems that way re. Wheater.

“By the time the 120 overs were done, 337 for eight had been scored. Beyond what looked an unnecessarily tame 26 not out from 65 deliveries by Adam Wheater, which included close to zero risk when any quicks runs would have been a bonus, the match looked comfortably Essex’s way.”

Bit of a collapse there from Somerset but at least they have the lead close to 200 now and some hope of extending it in the morning. In some ways they might have more chance of bowling Essex out with a modest lead but plenty of time available , rather than having a big lead which might have encouraged a "bat for time" approach.
And the fact that the umpires kept play going in near darkness presumably means only serious rain is likely to shorten the final day.

Still leaves Essex strong favourites ; but a few early wickets could change that. Fifth day pitch might possibly do a bit...hoping for a good finish . Might have to try and access a stream...

Duty281 wrote:Not much tension at all, really! Essex breezed to the lead in no time at all. From a neutral viewpoint, that's probably better for the final as a spectacle.

If Essex bat out their 120 overs, Somerset will have 74 overs to bat today, plus the 98 left tomorrow (minus two for the change of innings). Presume Somerset might try to bat 85 overs @ at a RR of around 3, then give themselves 85 overs to bowl Essex out? Will be a tough assignment, but we are seeing some variable bounce on this pitch, and Leach might get some turn on a wearing track.

Thought that was a good post and call yesterday morning by Duty but, per Sky and cricinfo now, there are only 90 overs today. That will further hinder Somerset's chances.

I would be declaring at the end of this Harmer over. Lead of around 230 and 80 overs to bowl Essex out. About as good as they could hope for.

JDizzle wrote:I would be declaring at the end of this Harmer over. Lead of around 230 and 80 overs to bowl Essex out. About as good as they could hope for.

And there it is. 237 to win or 80 over to survive for Essex. A nicely poised finale. Get Cook early, and game on!

JDizzle wrote:

JDizzle wrote:I would be declaring at the end of this Harmer over. Lead of around 230 and 80 overs to bowl Essex out. About as good as they could hope for.

And there it is. 237 to win or 80 over to survive for Essex. A nicely poised finale. Get Cook early, and game on!

Go along with all of that, JD.

237 isn't an easy target for Essex. Now will their back-up aim of batting 80 overs on a greyish and breezy day 5.

I went for Davey and Gregory to do well with the ball in Essex's first dig. I only got half marks then but will back the same pair to cause some trouble. How much remains to be seen ... for once, I'm glad to not be at the ground and instead watching on my lap top with a mug of coffee!

I’ll go with Leach to be the key man. With Somerset a seamer down, he should get some overs (Abell and Lammonby can also bowl) and apparently the pitch is reasonably slow so once the ball gets soft Somerset will need him to break some partnerships.

Lovely authoritative start from the Essex pair. Not here just to survive.

JDizzle wrote:I’ll go with Leach to be the key man. With Somerset a seamer down, he should get some overs (Abell and Lammonby can also bowl) and apparently the pitch is reasonably slow so once the ball gets soft Somerset will need him to break some partnerships.

Lovely authoritative start from the Essex pair. Not here just to survive.

Yeah, some nicely struck boundaries and well run singles. Pleased that Essex are looking to win the game rather than survive it - certainly at this stage.

Leach will undoubtedly have the chance to send down some overs. However, the cold weather will be against him.

guildfordbat wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Not much tension at all, really! Essex breezed to the lead in no time at all. From a neutral viewpoint, that's probably better for the final as a spectacle.

If Essex bat out their 120 overs, Somerset will have 74 overs to bat today, plus the 98 left tomorrow (minus two for the change of innings). Presume Somerset might try to bat 85 overs @ at a RR of around 3, then give themselves 85 overs to bowl Essex out? Will be a tough assignment, but we are seeing some variable bounce on this pitch, and Leach might get some turn on a wearing track.

Thought that was a good post and call yesterday morning by Duty but, per Sky and cricinfo now, there are only 90 overs today. That will further hinder Somerset's chances.

That's rather bizarre! Still, looks like Essex have it nearly sewn up now. Somerset needed at least three with the new ball, and they haven't got a solitary one after 7 overs.

Looks like that was a jinx! Gregory gets the first (of many?).

Westley gone! LBW to Overton. Looked a touch high to me... But game on now.

Did look high, yes. Umpires have been very cautious with LBWs through this game, so I'm surprised it was given. But Somerset won't care a jot. Get Cook before the interval and they'll be favourites.

61/2 at lunch. Essex need another 176 and there's only 61 overs left, though with the light as it is I doubt we'll get them all in.

Gregory gets the main man Cook, shortly after the resumption. Another possibly controversial one? Huge opening now for Somerset.

Suppose the wicket of Cook gives Somerset some sort of chance ; but I'm hearing (best I can get is sound , can't persuade any video streams to work , grrr) that nothing much is misbehaving so you'd think Essex can either get the runs or bat out time...

Still...add two wickets...you never know ?

Yes, nothing doing in the 45 minutes or so since Cook's wicket, so we're approaching miracle-required territory for Somerset.

Leach finally getting a bowl now.

Aha ! Leach strikes...

Door ajar ?

alfie wrote:Aha ! Leach strikes...

Door ajar ?

Possibly but Tendo is a good and crafty player for Essex to have at the crease. He may not win it, may not even save it but won’t do anything stupid.

Yeah I am just being sort of hopeful from a Somerset point of view

To be honest I think Essex would have to do a few silly things to get bowled out from here. But it sounds as if Leach has bowled a few good deliveries so perhaps if they can shift one of these before tea...

Essex are finding it tough out there, but they're only four down and they're grinding to the finish.

Duty281 wrote:Essex are finding it tough out there, but they're only four down and they're grinding to the finish.

Pity it is going to end in a draw. But I guess Essex have earned the title with their first innings efforts. Although it sounds as if they are having to battle a bit at the moment Somerset realistically need one or both of these two very soon or they just won't have time to get the rest.
Will give it the next few minutes to tea...

Leach prises out another - really think he should have bowled earlier - but the light is fading rapidly. Five wickets needed in 27 overs. Usually very possible, but it's highly unlikely we'll have the full quota.

Leach keeping it interesting I guess...get one more now and there will be some shredded nerves in the Essex dressing room...

But if the light is only allowing , what , twenty more overs ? It still looks like a draw.

Still time for some drama potentially but does look very much essexs to lose.

Well I think we can safely call it for Essex now.

The first innings won it for them, with a majestic century from Cook and a battling half-century from Westley. Bowlers Porter and Cook have been strong for them all season and again in the final.

Somerset will be immensely frustrated. Again falling just short in a FC competition, runners-up four times in five years now, and maybe they'll feel as though clearer weather would have produced a different result.

I've often been critical of the ECB, but I thought this was a well organised competition in trying circumstances. And hopefully back to normal next April!

Yeah can argue that Somerset were a bit stung by the weather and the contrived "first innings" rule, but Essex were limited first up by the equally artificial 120 rule. On balance when you put in the toss as well Essex outplayed Somerset and are deserved winners.

Congrats to Essex...

Not totally satisfactory finish : rather ironic that after setting aside five days for the final (though why the peculiar 120 over innings limit ?) the weather prevented a full result. Though not too surprising , I guess , at the end of September !

But certainly agree the oft (justly) criticised ECB did a great job in putting on a first class season at short notice in such bizarre circumstances. Together with the International matches : all probably more action than we had a right to expect

Let us hope next season is a little more "ordinary" ... But I'm not over confident it will be so more lateral thinking may well be required....

alfie wrote:Congrats to Essex...

Not totally satisfactory finish : rather ironic that after setting aside five days for the final (though why the peculiar 120 over innings limit ?) the weather prevented a full result. Though not too surprising , I guess , at the end of September !

But certainly agree the oft (justly) criticised ECB did a great job in putting on a first class season at short notice in such bizarre circumstances. Together with the International matches : all probably more action than we had a right to expect

Let us hope next season is a little more "ordinary" ... But I'm not over confident it will be so more lateral thinking may well be required....

I agree in a general sense but actually think the format this season was a vast improvement on the 'current' FC format where too many matches at the wrong time of year have left it a paradise for bowlers; a reduced season is for me the way to go forward with the final a pleasant addition.

Interesting idea , Soul...

I do agree the reduced season did have some advantages for the first class game ; but it has its drawbacks too. Members and keen supporters might not relish losing several games ; and although the three groups worked quite well for this year it would surely not be reasonable for such an arrangement to continue : Yorkshire never to venture south ? No Surrey v Lancashire ? Essex bats can't fatten their averages against Durham ? I presume you are intending some tweaks to the system (Perhaps a three group system not solely based on geography ?) but I am finding it hard to see anything which will please all.

Did you have a rough plan in mind ?

The other issue with the BWILLIS format is you have the "cream" (such as it is) of county cricket playing against the pub teams. To improve standards you need the best players playing against the best players in intense meaningful matches as often as is possible. The regional group format really doesn't deliver that, there was only one match played between the best three Counties in this years competition.

Yorkshire played one game against another D1 opponent. Thats not going to provide a breeding ground for better elite players.

alfie wrote:Interesting idea , Soul...

I do agree the reduced season did have some advantages for the first class game ; but it has its drawbacks too. Members and keen supporters might not relish losing several games ; and although the three groups worked quite well for this year it would surely not be reasonable for such an arrangement to continue : Yorkshire never to venture south ?  No Surrey v Lancashire ? Essex bats can't fatten their averages against Durham ?  I presume you are intending some tweaks to the system (Perhaps a three group system not solely based on geography ?)  but I am finding it hard to see anything which will please all.

Did you have a rough plan in mind ?

I agree it has drawbacks and you could possibly mix the groups around on a rolling seeding basis, you would lose a few games but not a huge amount if you played home and away so potentially 11 games a year as opposed to 14.

Something like;

Group 1

Seed 1
Seed 6
Seed 9
Seed 12
Seed 15
Seed 18

Group 2

Seed 2
Seed 5
Seed 8
Seed 11
Seed 14
Seed 17

Group 3

Seed 3
Seed 4
Seed 7
Seed 10
Seed 13
Seed 16

Soul Requiem wrote:

alfie wrote:Interesting idea , Soul...

I do agree the reduced season did have some advantages for the first class game ; but it has its drawbacks too. Members and keen supporters might not relish losing several games ; and although the three groups worked quite well for this year it would surely not be reasonable for such an arrangement to continue : Yorkshire never to venture south ?  No Surrey v Lancashire ? Essex bats can't fatten their averages against Durham ?  I presume you are intending some tweaks to the system (Perhaps a three group system not solely based on geography ?)  but I am finding it hard to see anything which will please all.

Did you have a rough plan in mind ?

I agree it has drawbacks and you could possibly mix the groups around on a rolling seeding basis, you would lose a few games but not a huge amount if you played home and away so potentially 11 games a year as opposed to 14.

Something like;

Group 1

Seed 1
Seed 6
Seed 9
Seed 12
Seed 15
Seed 18

Group 2

Seed 2
Seed 5
Seed 8
Seed 11
Seed 14
Seed 17

Group 3

Seed 3
Seed 4
Seed 7
Seed 10
Seed 13
Seed 16

Think its a good competition to have the number one seed at best play one game against another one of the top 5 teams during the season? The gap between the top of D1 and bottom of D2 is huge, to have 2 games a year between the top seed and bottom seed out of 18 would be a bit like England playing Ireland in ODIS a tin of custard in ODIs.

This is the exact opposite of what the county game needs if its going to be a breeding ground for test ready players.

That was just a quick idea, you could go for a top division split into two and then a seperate second division so 1a, 1b and 2 with the bottom two teams being relegated into division two.

It seems the ECB have basically adopted your plan for next season , Soul

The three "seeded" groups ; with the top six then settling things by another four games each...and the added bonus of a Bob Willis Cup Final at the end of it.

Given the blasted virus probably ain't going away in a hurry this sounds like a reasonable plan , no ?

Really its still just another fudge that doesnt confront the big issues around having so many fully professional counties and the dilution of talent (and funding) that leads to. The small counties are effectively on welfare as it is even before the

How well the second group stage works out may well be driven by the scheduling, is that going to be outside the international window? The interesting part could come that the teams without England players are advantaged in the early rounds and get through to the division one and the strongest teams be in D2. That tension of "is it really worth employing 3 format England players" has always been there regardless of the format, but if we have bubbles, concussion subs, and virus reserves again next season the counties might start to grumble a bit more vocally. ECB will need to figure out how they avoid players like Leach sitting out almost an entire season of cricket, but again thats true regardless of the structure of the competitions.

Given the difficulties in confronting the issues of the county system its not a bad solution in itself at all. The showpiece final will at least give something that has a bigger media draw and keeps first class cricket vaguely relevant outside itself and reduces the chance of the championship being won by the team that has the least games rained off. Having groups does make individual games more meaningful , so less coasting through. Its also a fair way of giving the lower counties some bigger draw games and keeping interest for the bottom third teams through the season with something to play for and encourages them to at least consider employing players for the format.

In the short term anything that is financially viable and just keeps professional first class cricket going at all has to be a good thing, but longer term this still isn't addressing the big issues with the county led system. That said there is also a fair counter that the county system is what makes cricket cricket, and tearing that down for artificial Hundred style franchises runs a risk of losing the soul of the game and disenfranchising the small hardcore following that the first class game does have.

Also sensible that they left this as a one year solution with the longer term future to be discussed next year. Really hard to know what the right answer will be long term and whats viable.

alfie wrote:It seems the ECB have basically adopted your plan for next season , Soul

The three "seeded" groups ; with the top six then settling things by another four games each...and the added bonus of a Bob Willis Cup Final at the end of it.

Given the blasted virus probably ain't going away in a hurry this sounds like a reasonable plan , no ?

They’ve gone to three divisions, but will still end up with the same number of games as the two division set up we have had the last few years. Which seems to defeat the point slightly? It’s not even a regional set up to deal with Covid and is seeded. Maybe it is just the first, baby, step towards three divisions and less games but they thought there would be push back if it all happened in one go.

It looks a terrible format. The Bob Willis Trophy format of this year made perfect sense because they had to play a condensed number of games. Now next year they're going to play roughly the usual number of matches, but in a strange format based initially on groups that have nothing to do with geography.

Plus according to the BBC there are two trophies? Which is a further oddity. It seems like the County Championship has been relegated, for next year at least, to the prominence that the 'league leaders shield' has in RL's Super League.

The six teams in Division One play a further four matches, with the side that finishes top of Division One crowned 2021 County Championship winners.
The top two teams in Division One will contest five-day Bob Willis Trophy final at Lord's.

And what's the motivation for teams who end up in division two or three? Does this effect future seasons?

Hearing that 2021 fixtures to be announced tomorrow.

guildfordbat wrote:Hearing that 2021 fixtures to be announced tomorrow.

Yeah, first ten championship matches for each county next season announced today. Matches after that determined by results and subsequent grouping. Matches for all counties begin on Thursday 8 April.