Political round up.............

First topic message reminder :

Pr4wn wrote:Why are 16 and 17 year olds old enough to pay tax but not old enough to vote?

Good point, take them out of having to pay tax.

Duty281 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:....Whatever the situation freezing out the only candidate of Color isn't a good look..

Leaving aside your strange obsession with the colour of people’s skin, you do know Lisa Nandy (from an ethnic minority background with an Indian father) is a leadership candidate, right?

She doesn't class herself as BAME....You know that, right ?

What on Earth are you going on about? She isn’t white, she’s mixed-race and hence is a ‘candidate of colour’.

Best look these things up before going on with your nonsensical conspiracy theories.

No lectures off a guy that idolises the racist known as Nigel Farage.....Lisa Nandy is allowed to self identify....

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Perhaps better for thousands of Labour Councillors...and 500,000 members of Labour to decide how good he is instead of 200 backside licking Mps more interested in seeking favour from the Winner...

....Whatever the situation freezing out the only candidate of Color isn't a good look..

Well you already have evidence for what happens when you have one set of people saying one thing about a guy that they have had years of experience of working(!) with, against a lot of people who can buy into the dream but don't.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:....Whatever the situation freezing out the only candidate of Color isn't a good look..

Leaving aside your strange obsession with the colour of people’s skin, you do know Lisa Nandy (from an ethnic minority background with an Indian father) is a leadership candidate, right?

She doesn't class herself as BAME....You know that, right ?

What on Earth are you going on about? She isn’t white, she’s mixed-race and hence is a ‘candidate of colour’.

Best look these things up before going on with your nonsensical conspiracy theories.

No lectures off a guy that idolises the racist known as Nigel Farage.....Lisa Nandy is allowed to self identify....

Not a lecture, just facts (which I know you’re not too fond of).

Now provide some evidence of Nandy identifying as white.

Moving on.....

Starmer 2/7
Bailey....5/1
Nandy....7/1
Phillips...16/1
Thornberry 50/1

Oddsmakers think it is a done deal..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Moving on.....

Starmer 2/7
Bailey....5/1
Nandy....7/1
Phillips...16/1
Thornberry 50/1

Oddsmakers think it is a done deal..

Yes, probably best to move on as you can’t prove your point (not surprising as it was entirely false).

Bailey and Nandy are excellent prices as these types of races are subject to plenty of internal shenanigans; a long way from Starmer getting over the line. Phillips and Thornberry will time their withdrawals and subsequent endorsements well.

I'll be amazed if Starmer is the next Labour leader, far too sensible a move for the membership to make.

From this point on I wish to self identify as a Gallifreyan.

Soul Requiem wrote:Craig is going to be happy today.

I look at it two ways.

Angry that the Scottish Government are being told they'll never have a mandate for IndyRef2 regardless of any election results for the next 40 years or so according to Alister Jack.

Happy in the knowledge that the more Westminster say No the more people join the Yes group and this before even the full effects of Brexit begin to hit home.

Duty281 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Moving on.....

Starmer 2/7
Bailey....5/1
Nandy....7/1
Phillips...16/1
Thornberry 50/1

Oddsmakers think it is a done deal..

Yes, probably best to move on as you can’t prove your point (not surprising as it was entirely false)..

If you say so.... ......

Thornberry managing to get the MP nominations is a problem for Phillips......Both won't snag enough Union support to get on the ballot...so both will have to get 33 local branches to endorse them.....With Starmer likely to get plenty from the right and Bailey from the left and Thornberry who has experience of holding Johnson to account probably more popular with dedicated members that can be bothered to turn up at these meetings...

Could be a problem for Rent-a-gob......Hope so.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Moving on.....

Starmer 2/7
Bailey....5/1
Nandy....7/1
Phillips...16/1
Thornberry 50/1

Oddsmakers think it is a done deal..

Yes, probably best to move on as you can’t prove your point (not surprising as it was entirely false)..

If you say so.... ......

Thornberry managing to get the MP nominations is a problem for Phillips......Both won't snag enough Union support to get on the ballot...so both will have to get 33 local branches to endorse them.....With Starmer likely to get plenty from the right and Bailey from the left and Thornberry who has experience of holding Johnson to account probably more popular with dedicated members that can be bothered to turn up at these meetings...

Could be a problem for Rent-a-gob......Hope so.

It has always seemed like it was a shoo-in for Keir Starmer if I am being honest.

That's how it looks to me, too.

Nandy is the one to watch. Has a lot more about her than RLB and is left wing enough to appeal to the membership. Just whether she can get enough second preferences from Thornberry/Phillips voters to get to the final two - then she would have a chance vs Starmer.

Nandy ran Owen Smith's campaign...Been a fierce Corbyn critic..

Not enough goodwill among the left to give her a big enough share of the lefty vote.  

Starmer will pick up some lefties for staying loyal to Corbyn and serving....He will also clean up on the right....

Bailey has 50,000 Momentum members backing her plus a hefty share of the non Lansman left.

Starmer v Bailey..

Starmer wins comfortably.

Anyone bunging in a bag to bop Big Ben on the bill for Brexit’s big bash?

I’ve heard this is ok cos we have food banks to help those on the poverty line. Australia, commonwealth cousins n all, is on fire. But we need Big Ben to bang for the Brexit blowout or Boris’s Britian could appear broken before being blown to Baghdad by bigots.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Anyone bunging in a bag to bop Big Ben on the bill for Brexit’s big bash?

I’ve heard this is ok cos we have food banks to help those on the poverty line. Australia, commonwealth cousins n all, is on fire. But we need Big Ben to bang for the Brexit blowout or Boris’s Britian could appear broken before being blown to Baghdad by bigots.

Sports Journalist?

(Survation)...Next Labour Leader poll...

Bailey.....42%
Starmer..37%
Phillips....9%
Nandy..... 7%

Interesting but remember Bailey has to win on the 1st round.

From the same survey:

Labour leadership voting intention (after second preferences):

R. Long-Bailey: 51%
K. Starmer: 49%

Appears to be Labour List readers polled and then weighted for the membership accordingly.

Also means RLB’s odds have come in to 2/1.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:(Survation)...Next Labour Leader poll...

Bailey.....42%
Starmer..37%
Phillips....9%
Nandy..... 7%

Interesting but remember Bailey has to win on the 1st round.

Interesting, as you say, but could be bad. If Bailey wins, I think they're dead in the water for 10+ years. Can't believe they'd go for her - actually, yes I can. Ridiculous though - first term (next to no experience), Corbyn stooge and promoted curiously quickly having proposed him for leader, tarnished bigtime by recent GE result, tarnished again by recent Momentum leadership attempt to have her and Raynor confirmed as only, apparent, option for leader/deputy.

If there is a downturn in some of these poorer North and Midland Constituences that turned blue in GE2019 and there is every chance there will be.....

I fancy whoever wins the Labour leadership becomes PM...

Starmer wins and the next GE is up for grabs, if it's Bailey then Johnson will be delighted knowing he cannot lose.

Labour are at least two GEs away from getting back into office. They’re closer to being finished as a party than they are of becoming a party of government.

Though Kier Starmer is vastly overhyped, due in no small way to the ineptitude of his fellow contenders, it’s vital Labour secure his stabilising influence over the next five years to build a platform for a possible future Labour government. He’s not Rumpole of the Bailey, ready to skewer Johnson at PMQs and dazzle us with his oratory, but he’s certainly better than Rebecca Long-Bailey who will take Labour closer to ruin.

Labour are certainly fortunate there’s no decent third party in the wings ready to supplant them.

Duty281 wrote:Labour are at least two GEs away from getting back into office. They’re closer to being finished as a party than they are of becoming a party of government.

Though Kier Starmer is vastly overhyped, due in no small way to the ineptitude of his fellow contenders, it’s vital Labour secure his stabilising influence over the next five years to build a platform for a possible future Labour government. He’s not Rumpole of the Bailey, ready to skewer Johnson at PMQs and dazzle us with his oratory, but he’s certainly better than Rebecca Long-Bailey who will take Labour closer to ruin.

Labour are certainly fortunate there’s no decent third party in the wings ready to supplant them.

Though, I must admit, it is novel to see someone on the front bench of either side of the house with such distinguished experience. Privy Councillor, QC, former Director of Public Prosecutions and former Head of the Crown Prosecution Service.

Could be the first leader to properly call Boris out on all of his BS.

Soul Requiem wrote:Starmer wins and the next GE is up for grabs, if it's Bailey then Johnson will be delighted knowing he cannot lose.

Corbyn was 8 Seats from a Coalition Govt in 2017..

Bailey hasn't got his baggage. Johnson also won with the worst personal ratings in history for a winning candidate.

Bless you.

RLB also lacks appeal to anyone by the looks of it. Dont think shed remotely be anywhere in this race without inheriting the Corbyn successor tag by default.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:Starmer wins and the next GE is up for grabs, if it's Bailey then Johnson will be delighted knowing he cannot lose.

Corbyn was 8 Seats from a Coalition Govt in 2017..

Bailey hasn't got his baggage.  Johnson also won with the worst personal ratings in history for a winning candidate.

Bless you.

Personal ratings clearly mean a lot then

Bless you.

The biggest reason people didn't vote Labour was Corbyn...There are at least 50 Lab/Con marginals in 2024

The economy is struggling..

Patently obvious Bailey can beat the mysogynistic...racist clown..

She also may lose to him.....But it's silly to rule it out.

I consider it silly to think it will be anything other than an embarrassment for Labour with Bailey at the helm, they have one chance and that is Starmer so naturally the membership will overlook him.

Moving on.....Not much point for anyone of a betting disposition betting on the Deputy race...

Rayner on 61% according to Survation...

42% lead from Burgon on 19%

The 19% who picked Burgon should be sterilized. Too stupid to be allowed to procreate.

superflyweight wrote:The 19% who picked Burgon should be sterilized.  Too stupid to be allowed to procreate.  

They must have really short memories of his appearances during the election campaign, the one on Sky in particular

The 61% backing Rayner aren't much better.

Soul Requiem wrote:The 61% backing Rayner aren't much better.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The biggest reason people didn't vote Labour was Corbyn...There are at least 50 Lab/Con marginals in 2024

The economy is struggling..

Patently obvious Bailey can beat the mysogynistic...racist clown..

She also may lose to him.....But it's silly to rule it out.

Not so*, despite what Labour may say. Brexit was a big issue and their manifesto was a laugh riot. Long-Bailey is up to her ears in the policies they ran for the last GE. She needs to somehow explain how the GE trashing was, actually, nothing to with her and be convincing while she's at it. Good luck.

* - Well, maybe biggest reason perhaps (hard to quantify), but those others weren't trivial.

Not known as wrong-daily for nothing.

Starmer hasn't shone as much as I'd have liked, but lets face it, just being competent would put him ahead of all of the government and most of the shadow cabinet. He also has a hell of a CV.

Currently 7 local branches have nominated their candidates for Leader/Deputy.....33 nominations is the magic number to progress.

Starmer 4
Bailey 3
Nandy 0
Phillips 0
Thornberry 0

Dep Leader.

Rayner 4
Burgon 1
Murray 1
Butler 1
Khan 0

One branch had it 66-18 to Bailey over Starmer with similar results vice versa..

Does look a two horse race..

For those interested 'Clp nominations' Twitter account keeps a running total of the Labour battle..

Nighty Night.

navyblueshorts wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The biggest reason people didn't vote Labour was Corbyn...There are at least 50 Lab/Con marginals in 2024

The economy is struggling..

Patently obvious Bailey can beat the mysogynistic...racist clown..

She also may lose to him.....But it's silly to rule it out.

Not so*, despite what Labour may say. Brexit was a big issue and their manifesto was a laugh riot. Long-Bailey is up to her ears in the policies they ran for the last GE. She needs to somehow explain how the GE trashing was, actually, nothing to with her and be convincing while she's at it. Good luck.

* - Well, maybe biggest reason perhaps (hard to quantify), but those others weren't trivial.

Have to agree with this. Corbyn was, of course, a huge factor. But the fact of the matter is that the British public are simply not interested in the hard socialist agenda that Corbyn (and RLB) were promoting. Changing the figurehead will not really change the policy and so I don't think it will change the outcome.

The British are still under the illusion that they can have tax cuts in every budget and with every new government, but the reason their public services are disintegrating is because of "inefficiencies" and these mysterious middle managers that are sucking money out of the system.

The reason the NHS is suffering (to the point that we're apparently going to stop quantifying its demise), the reason we have so few police officers, the reason the care system is practically non-existent and the reason we have no public libraries left is that the public refuse to pay for it.

Yougov poll on why Voters deserted Labour...

Corbyn 36%
Brexit 19%
Policy 16%
Tactical Voting 10%
Extremism 5%
Didn't get around to voting 5%

Of course Yougov may be wrong...But it's a decent sample..

Soul Requiem wrote:The 61% backing Rayner aren't much better.

Probably too scared not to back her. That is one angry woman

Pr4wn wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The biggest reason people didn't vote Labour was Corbyn...There are at least 50 Lab/Con marginals in 2024

The economy is struggling..

Patently obvious Bailey can beat the mysogynistic...racist clown..

She also may lose to him.....But it's silly to rule it out.

Not so*, despite what Labour may say. Brexit was a big issue and their manifesto was a laugh riot. Long-Bailey is up to her ears in the policies they ran for the last GE. She needs to somehow explain how the GE trashing was, actually, nothing to with her and be convincing while she's at it. Good luck.

* - Well, maybe biggest reason perhaps (hard to quantify), but those others weren't trivial.

Have to agree with this. Corbyn was, of course, a huge factor. But the fact of the matter is that the British public are simply not interested in the hard socialist agenda that Corbyn (and RLB) were promoting. Changing the figurehead will not really change the policy and so I don't think it will change the outcome.

The British are still under the illusion that they can have tax cuts in every budget and with every new government, but the reason their public services are disintegrating is because of "inefficiencies" and these mysterious middle managers that are sucking money out of the system.

The reason the NHS is suffering (to the point that we're apparently going to stop quantifying its demise), the reason we have so few police officers, the reason the care system is practically non-existent and the reason we have no public libraries left is that the public refuse to pay for it.

And ultimately what the public don't realise is that if they don't pay for it one way they'll end up paying for it another.

lostinwales wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The biggest reason people didn't vote Labour was Corbyn...There are at least 50 Lab/Con marginals in 2024

The economy is struggling..

Patently obvious Bailey can beat the mysogynistic...racist clown..

She also may lose to him.....But it's silly to rule it out.

Not so*, despite what Labour may say. Brexit was a big issue and their manifesto was a laugh riot. Long-Bailey is up to her ears in the policies they ran for the last GE. She needs to somehow explain how the GE trashing was, actually, nothing to with her and be convincing while she's at it. Good luck.

* - Well, maybe biggest reason perhaps (hard to quantify), but those others weren't trivial.

Have to agree with this. Corbyn was, of course, a huge factor. But the fact of the matter is that the British public are simply not interested in the hard socialist agenda that Corbyn (and RLB) were promoting. Changing the figurehead will not really change the policy and so I don't think it will change the outcome.

The British are still under the illusion that they can have tax cuts in every budget and with every new government, but the reason their public services are disintegrating is because of "inefficiencies" and these mysterious middle managers that are sucking money out of the system.

The reason the NHS is suffering (to the point that we're apparently going to stop quantifying its demise), the reason we have so few police officers, the reason the care system is practically non-existent and the reason we have no public libraries left is that the public refuse to pay for it.

And ultimately what the public don't realise is that if they don't pay for it one way they'll end up paying for it another.

True. Or not, maybe, and we endure sub-standard transport, health, education etc etc.

When...Brown is spending 5.4% on Health in 2009 with a population of 63m and NHS targets are being missed..

The Tories are spending 1% with a population of  67.5m...

Not hard to see the biggest problem where the NHS is concerned at the moment..

Heaven forbid you end up with US system...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:When...Brown is spending 5.4% on Health in 2009 with a population of 63m and NHS targets are being missed..

The Tories are spending 1% with a population of  67.5m...

Not hard to see the biggest problem where the NHS is concerned at the moment..

Heaven forbid you end up with US system...

You can't miss targets if you don't have any.

You are right and these weasels look like withdrawing them is the next step...

100,000 New Labour members since GE19...

Anecdotal evidence suggests the majority have joined to back Starmer... As it's AV and he will get plenty of 2nd choices...

Hard to see how Starmer loses...But Corbyn was 500/1...

Then again Corbyn had more life in him..

Looks like the Village idiot is quitting the Labour leadership race....

Certainly helps if you have an interesting thought in your head and have the ability to express it..

Yougov...
Con 49
Lab 29
Lib..10

"Might be working all hours and going to a Foodbank...But Boris is going to get Brexit done and stop all these naughty immigrants coming in"....

Bless them...Repent at leisure kids..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Yougov...
Con 49
Lab 29
Lib..10

"Might be working all hours and going to a Foodbank...But Boris is going to get Brexit done and stop all these naughty immigrants coming in"....

Bless them...Repent at leisure kids..

In other words 'I know what's best for people and they're too stupid to see it'.

"Our little island is going to make the US...China and the rest of the World grovel with our new trade deals...Just like we showed Fritz in WW2"

Bless..

Well Brad Pitt could handle WWZ all on his own! So how hard can it be?

The clock is ticking. Enjoy the World outside the Bureaucratic Tower of Babel that is the EU.