Scotland post mortem

by **NeilyBroon** Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:49 pm

First topic message reminder :

So we're oot.

Question is... what now?

Do we think toonie will stay? If he does take the can which seems quite likely then who do we get to replace him?

I think this has to be the end of a few players too. We can't keep picking people on past form.

by **RDW** Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:51 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Should have been more. Have they apologised to the Japanese yet?

Well this was issued at the time this was all kicking off, but people seem to be conveniently forgetting about it.

https://www.scottishrugby.org/news/scottish-rugby-statement

The 'once again' refers to Dodsons comments during the controversial press conference - also forgotten about.

by Tramptastic Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:57 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Should have been more. Have they apologised to the Japanese yet?

They're loading the nation of scotland on to ships to begin our apology tour in person. The costs of shipping 6 million scottish people to japan will bankrupt us as a country but at least we'll have made things right (FINALLY)

.... in Japanese! The oldest ancient form! All six million individually... before the Emperor.

Should be finishing just in time to get back to France for Scotland's first pool game in 2023.... against Japan.

It's going to be exhausting but i'm looking forward to my Odyssey. Hopefully this will finally put us in our place as a nation and we can learn some respect, drop our dialect/languages, speak nothing but the Queens English (and Japanese at this point), declare Whiskey to be a "British" drink and rename ourselves The North-North of England. Scotland will be eradicated as a nation but WR will have got the satisfaction of it's (totally not incompetent) typhoon contingency planning not being challenged.

by SecretFly Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:09 pm

Tramp.... I like your style Wink

by Tattie Scones RRN Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:39 pm

Tramptastic wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Should have been more. Have they apologised to the Japanese yet?

They're loading the nation of scotland on to ships to begin our apology tour in person. The costs of shipping 6 million scottish people to japan will bankrupt us as a country but at least we'll have made things right (FINALLY)

.... in Japanese! The oldest ancient form! All six million individually... before the Emperor.

Should be finishing just in time to get back to France for Scotland's first pool game in 2023.... against Japan.

It's going to be exhausting but i'm looking forward to my Odyssey. Hopefully this will finally put us in our place as a nation and we can learn some respect, drop our dialect/languages, speak nothing but the Queens English (and Japanese at this point), declare Whiskey to be a "British" drink and rename ourselves The North-North of England. Scotland will be eradicated as a nation but WR will have got the satisfaction of it's (totally not incompetent) typhoon contingency planning not being challenged.

How very well dare you!

by Tramptastic Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:54 pm

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Should have been more. Have they apologised to the Japanese yet?

They're loading the nation of scotland on to ships to begin our apology tour in person. The costs of shipping 6 million scottish people to japan will bankrupt us as a country but at least we'll have made things right (FINALLY)

.... in Japanese! The oldest ancient form! All six million individually... before the Emperor.

Should be finishing just in time to get back to France for Scotland's first pool game in 2023.... against Japan.

It's going to be exhausting but i'm looking forward to my Odyssey. Hopefully this will finally put us in our place as a nation and we can learn some respect, drop our dialect/languages, speak nothing but the Queens English (and Japanese at this point), declare Whiskey to be a "British" drink and rename ourselves The North-North of England. Scotland will be eradicated as a nation but WR will have got the satisfaction of it's (totally not incompetent) typhoon contingency planning not being challenged.

How very well dare you!

Oh God, I've been found out! im secretly irish and ive been masquerading as Scottish! I was booted out of Ireland for my incessant self loathing and rampant sectarianism , with suggestions that Scotland would suit my demeanor slightly better Wink

by Tramptastic Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:59 pm

SecretFly wrote:Tramp.... I like your style

I've decided to commit to the part. After returning to the UK and north-north England I will become a daily mail subscriber, Prince Harry-meganmarkle-hating royalist. I can only hope this will fuel my sense of self entitled-post imperial jingoism that will almost certainly help motivate the Englandshire Rugby Team to another 1966/2003 style "once every millennium" world champion win.

One could hope.

by **RDW** Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:57 pm

You're on a bit of a mission today Tramp! Laugh

by Tramptastic Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:06 am

I just start lashing out on the internet when i'm bored at work Laugh

by **NeilyBroon** Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:20 am

You were only lashing out? I was just packing for the apology tour...

by **RDW** Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:27 am

NeilyBroon wrote:You were only lashing out? I was just packing for the apology tour...

by Tramptastic Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:28 am

It's possible to lash out and make apologies. Classic SRU tactics.

by **RDW** Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:34 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50416168

Some more detail from Tom English on some of the nuances of how this was resolved. I'm glad both parties were able to find a middle ground, although in reality WR have had to move a lot more than the SRU given they what they were demanding as the punishment.

by **NeilyBroon** Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:37 am

Tramptastic wrote:It's possible to lash out and make apologies. Classic SRU tactics.

Ah, the 'Dodson dodge'.

This whole incident has cemented the SRU's reputation for the finest doublethink of any of the unions.
War is peace
Freedom is slavery
Ignorance is strength
Scotland are the fastest team in the world

by bsando Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:06 pm

Harris is starting against Toulouse this weekend for Gloucester. Gray is on the bench.

by **NeilyBroon** Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:37 pm

bsando wrote:Harris is starting against Toulouse this weekend for Gloucester. Gray is on the bench.

Can't really see past Toulouse for this one. Hopefully Gray gets some time off the bench, I noticed they didn't play him last week. At 30 he's no spring chicken in rugby terms but could still feature in 2023 potentially. Definitely worth considering for the 6Ns if he's all settled with baby. Would be interesting to see if his time in France and years in the game has given him a bit more of an aggressive edge.

What I'd give for a Nathan Hines or a Jason White in our forwards right now!

by Guest Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:47 pm

"What I'd give for a Nathan Hines or a Jason White in our forwards right now!"

Think I've used those exact examples for the last 3-4 years talking about Scotland.

Pick your hard men, even if they're not your best men. Bradbury and Ritchie showed physicality beyond what I've seen a Scottish back row produce for a while - probably since Denton was breaking through. Watson will do what he does but with J Gray being a bit lightweight and more of a workhorse, you need the rest of the back 5 to be dogged.

by Tattie Scones RRN Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:02 am

miaow wrote:"What I'd give for a Nathan Hines or a Jason White in our forwards right now!"

Think I've used those exact examples for the last 3-4 years talking about Scotland.

Pick your hard men, even if they're not your best men. Bradbury and Ritchie showed physicality beyond what I've seen a Scottish back row produce for a while - probably since Denton was breaking through. Watson will do what he does but with J Gray being a bit lightweight and more of a workhorse, you need the rest of the back 5 to be dogged.

Did ye aye?

by **NeilyBroon** Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:04 am

miaow wrote:"What I'd give for a Nathan Hines or a Jason White in our forwards right now!"

Think I've used those exact examples for the last 3-4 years talking about Scotland.

Pick your hard men, even if they're not your best men. Bradbury and Ritchie showed physicality beyond what I've seen a Scottish back row produce for a while - probably since Denton was breaking through. Watson will do what he does but with J Gray being a bit lightweight and more of a workhorse, you need the rest of the back 5 to be dogged.

Aye Bradbury probably looks our closest to being sizable and aggressive and seems to be staying focused now during matches.

Not overly convinced by Thomson to be honest, we have plenty of soft hands in the backs. He looks to me like Strauss with a bit more speed and skill, makes a good few yards now and again though so maybe worth persisting with.

Ritchie is great but he's a very similar player to Watson - size is his only limiting factor.

Matt Fagerson is probably in the same camp as Thomson - decent but not got as much bite as Bradbury.

Looking forward I'd probably go with Ritchie, Watson, Bradbury or Bradbury, Watson, Thomson.

Haining also looks like he could be a very handy option if he can maintain then translate his form to International rugby.

by Tramptastic Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:10 am

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:
miaow wrote:"What I'd give for a Nathan Hines or a Jason White in our forwards right now!"

Think I've used those exact examples for the last 3-4 years talking about Scotland.

Pick your hard men, even if they're not your best men. Bradbury and Ritchie showed physicality beyond what I've seen a Scottish back row produce for a while - probably since Denton was breaking through. Watson will do what he does but with J Gray being a bit lightweight and more of a workhorse, you need the rest of the back 5 to be dogged.

Did ye aye?

Did you ever see Kevin Bridges skit on doin a chat show called "Did ye aye?", nothin like a bit of passive aggressive disbelief Laugh

by reallybored Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:27 am

NeilyBroon wrote:
miaow wrote:"What I'd give for a Nathan Hines or a Jason White in our forwards right now!"

Think I've used those exact examples for the last 3-4 years talking about Scotland.

Pick your hard men, even if they're not your best men. Bradbury and Ritchie showed physicality beyond what I've seen a Scottish back row produce for a while - probably since Denton was breaking through. Watson will do what he does but with J Gray being a bit lightweight and more of a workhorse, you need the rest of the back 5 to be dogged.

Aye Bradbury probably looks our closest to being sizable and aggressive and seems to be staying focused now during matches.

Not overly convinced by Thomson to be honest, we have plenty of soft hands in the backs. He looks to me like Strauss with a bit more speed and skill, makes a good few yards now and again though so maybe worth persisting with.

Ritchie is great but he's a very similar player to Watson - size is his only limiting factor.

Matt Fagerson is probably in the same camp as Thomson - decent but not got as much bite as Bradbury.

Looking forward I'd probably go with Ritchie, Watson, Bradbury or Bradbury, Watson, Thomson.

Haining also looks like he could be a very handy option if he can maintain then translate his form to International rugby.

Ritchie is bigger than Watson, Wilson, Barclay & Fagerson.

by Tattie Scones RRN Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:30 am

Tramptastic wrote:
Tattie Scones RRN wrote:
miaow wrote:"What I'd give for a Nathan Hines or a Jason White in our forwards right now!"

Think I've used those exact examples for the last 3-4 years talking about Scotland.

Pick your hard men, even if they're not your best men. Bradbury and Ritchie showed physicality beyond what I've seen a Scottish back row produce for a while - probably since Denton was breaking through. Watson will do what he does but with J Gray being a bit lightweight and more of a workhorse, you need the rest of the back 5 to be dogged.

Did ye aye?
Did you ever see Kevin Bridges skit on doin a chat show called "Did ye aye?", nothin like a bit of passive aggressive disbelief

He is quality!

by **RDW** Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:36 am

Big fan of Kev.I.N.

I saw him in the early days in Dundee. His jokes about Dundee were on point, but to be fair that's like shooting fish in a barrel in comedy.

by 123456789. Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:43 am

I saw him in a converted church in a small English provincial town (think the posh part of a constituency with an overwhelming Conservative majority). The local Caledonian society were out in force with their children as they were told a Scottish comedian was coming to town and they bought tickets out of solidarity. He actually wasn't particularly good on the night, I think he was put off by the large crucifix and the waving saltires.

On the hard man front. I think it's a bit of a misnomer. There are plenty of 'hardmen' in Scotland, almost none of which would improve the Scotland rugby team. Jim Hamilton was our enforcer, and I'm not particularly sure what he did. The rugby player who is principally a hardman seems usually to be the type that gives away penalties at crucial moments in key matches. What 'hardmen' in other teams bring tends to be above and beyond their perception. Courtney Lawes, for example, is a dynamic player whose tackles are key momentum swingers in games. I'd rather have Skinner or Richie Gray back at second row to compete with Jonny Gray, Gilchrist and Cummings than a specific hardman who hasn't quite go the same skills.

Scotland need bigger carriers. In the World Cup we didn't have a big carrier at 12 or in the pack. We struggled to get go forward and we struggled to draw in defenders to enable the wide play. Wilson thinks of himself as a hardman, and often seems to get negative gains on the rugby pitch.

by Guest Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:57 am

Scottish 'hardmen' I can think of - Strokosch, the aforementioned White and Hines. The role has changed, yeah. For Wales, it was probably Roberts and, more recently, players like Jake Ball and Moriarty. Players who you don't want to run at, whose tackles hurt. Scotland don't have a centre nor do they really have a second row like that.

by **RDW** Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:26 pm

All Blacks and Argentina will join Japan as our autumn test opponents.

That's a decent test series, and there's probably never been a better chance to play the ABs (we've said that before!)

by bsando Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:53 pm

Some interesting comments on Scotland but Eddie Jones on the beeb today, I have to say I agree with all of it. However, I don’t think his comparison to Japan is entirely accurate. Scotland is one of the oldest Rugby nations in world rugby and has a long history where as Japan has a very recent history with a lot of potential given the size of their population.

by Tramptastic Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:08 am

RDW wrote:All Blacks and Argentina will join Japan as our autumn test opponents.

That's a decent test series, and there's probably never been a better chance to play the ABs (we've said that before!)

So in previous years I'd have said 2/3 wins would be expected but things are looking a bit shakier post-world cup

I'd expect Scotland to lose everything if Townsend has lost the changing room, if not then it's 2/3 wins a hammering by the all blacks.

IF we lose all 3 tests do we boot Townsend?

by **BigGee** Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:19 am

I would still expect us to win two out of three here. Japan unlikely to be the same force in the autumn and away from home, plus they are likely to be rebuilding a bit as well.

The ABs likely to be a game to far, even though we took them very close last time.

by Tramptastic Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:24 am

Expect us to win the all blacks game as its essentially a meaningless (non-tournament) game

by **RDW** Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:24 am

Tramptastic wrote:Expect us to win the all blacks game as its essentially a meaningless (non-tournament) game

I couldn't care less what it was if we beat the ABs!

by SecretFly Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:44 am

BigGee wrote:I would still expect us to win two out of three here. Japan unlikely to be the same force in the autumn and away from home, plus they are likely to be rebuilding a bit as well.

The ABs likely to be a game to far, even though we took them very close last time.

I wouldn't suggest such a thing to Townsend. The likelihood is that Jamie Joseph is going to suspect that Scotland will have such thoughts and we all know at this stage that he's a coach that thrives on premature expectations of his team

by **RDW** Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:45 am

We traditionally do well in the AIs (noting last year's was pretty meh). I'm confident we should beat Argentina and agree with Bigee that Japan are likely to not be the same force they were in the WC.

It's the 6N and WCs that we struggle with!

by Taylorman Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:26 am

What’s up with this clown Hogg? It’s not enough Scotland try to hold the tournament to ransom over the inclement weather Hoggs gotta chime in and tell SBW ‘how to lose’ with more obvious and public pain?

Granted he’d be more an expert in that area but it’s well known SBW ‘rolls’ to his own tune and has simply found more internal perspective on life.

He’s also said the NRL championships were more important to him that the two rugby world cups. Big deal. He was far more integral to his League wins than sitting on the bench for Nonu for the large part and he’s a Leaguie at heart anyway.

Laughable that a guy who’s hardly won a thing is telling another who’s won far more in multiple sports, sides, club and country....how to approach losing. List so laughable in fact it’s not even funny. Laugh

Perhaps Hogg could do with a bit of Allah in his life to get the drift?

by Tramptastic Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:32 am

Taylorman wrote:What’s up with this clown Hogg? It’s not enough Scotland try to hold the tournament to ransom over the inclement weather Hoggs gotta chime in and tell SBW ‘how to lose’ with more obvious and public pain?

Granted he’d be more an expert in that area but it’s well known SBW ‘rolls’ to his own tune and has simply found more internal perspective on life.

He’s also said the NRL championships were more important to him that the two rugby world cups. Big deal. He was far more integral to his League wins than sitting on the bench for Nonu for the large part and he’s a Leaguie at heart anyway.

Perhaps Hogg could do with a bit of Allah in his life to get the drift?

RKO Outta Nowhere

whit you jabberin on aboot?

by **RDW** Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:32 am

Taylorman wrote:What’s up with this clown Hogg? It’s not enough Scotland try to hold the tournament to ransom over the inclement weather Hoggs gotta chime in and tell SBW ‘how to lose’ with more obvious and public pain?

Granted he’d be more an expert in that area but it’s well known SBW ‘rolls’ to his own tune and has simply found more internal perspective on life.

He’s also said the NRL championships were more important to him that the two rugby world cups. Big deal. He was far more integral to his League wins than sitting on the bench for Nonu for the large part and he’s a Leaguie at heart anyway.

Laughable that a guy who’s hardly won a thing is telling another who’s won far more in multiple sports, sides, club and country....how to approach losing. List so laughable in fact it’s not even funny.

Perhaps Hogg could do with a bit of Allah in his life to get the drift?

https://twitter.com/StuartWHOGG_/status/1196378970322874369?s=19

thumbsup

Might be worth avoiding Daily Mail headlines - they're not exactly renowned as being accurate.

by bsando Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:35 am

Taylorman wrote:What’s up with this clown Hogg? It’s not enough Scotland try to hold the tournament to ransom over the inclement weather Hoggs gotta chime in and tell SBW ‘how to lose’ with more obvious and public pain?

Granted he’d be more an expert in that area but it’s well known SBW ‘rolls’ to his own tune and has simply found more internal perspective on life.

He’s also said the NRL championships were more important to him that the two rugby world cups. Big deal. He was far more integral to his League wins than sitting on the bench for Nonu for the large part and he’s a Leaguie at heart anyway.

Laughable that a guy who’s hardly won a thing is telling another who’s won far more in multiple sports, sides, club and country....how to approach losing. List so laughable in fact it’s not even funny.

Perhaps Hogg could do with a bit of Allah in his life to get the drift?

by Taylorman Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:40 am

Yeah fair enough. Still an odd comment to raise it at all with today’s open standards. He’s had to backtrack a bit, sometimes these guys should just do the playing and leave the rugby commentary on social media to us experts huh? Laugh

by **RDW** Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:41 am

Jeezo this is pretty much a clear example of quotes deliberately being taken out of context and twisted to make fake news

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-7696155/Stuart-Hogg-believes-Sonny-Bill-Williams-did-not-care-New-Zealands-loss-England.html

I hate to give it the clicks they depend upon but this really is total Love sacks.

by Tramptastic Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:45 am

It's from the same paper that thinks Prince Andrew is merely "eccentric"

But, to be fair and balanced, it is the paper that initially reported the Saracens scandal Shocked

Maybe Hogg is a terrible excuse for a human being? He should quit playing rugby. Forever.

by **RDW** Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:47 am

Certainly has hints of Andy Murray's anyone but England comments, although not as an extreme a press reaction.

The press complain about players being media trained robots and not giving them anything interesting to talk about - you can hardly blame them when this is what the likes of the Daily Fail do to them when they give a hint of banter in an interview.

by Taylorman Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:47 am

True, but then why say anything at all knowing full well something like that is clear and obvious food on someone’s table in this day and age.

Looks like another case of underestimating the unfortunate power of the media which basically says ‘everything you say publicly is material for someone’.

by Taylorman Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:50 am

Tramptastic wrote:It's from the same paper that thinks Prince Andrew is merely "eccentric"

But, to be fair and balanced, it is the paper that initially reported the Saracens scandal

Maybe Hogg is a terrible excuse for a human being? He should quit playing rugby. Forever.

There you go you see someone could take that completely out of context ...and agree with you.

by Tramptastic Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:54 am

It's an odd one, if the daily fail wants an endless supply of outrageous "Non-pc" quotes from rugby players to stir up controversy, why dont they just quote the Rugby Pod out of context?

The guests that come on their all have a bit of a laugh, relax, swear, say what they want, have a tongue in cheek go at other players - The daily fail could mine that source for years!

by Tattie Scones RRN Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:59 am

Taylorman wrote:What’s up with this clown Hogg? It’s not enough Scotland try to hold the tournament to ransom over the inclement weather Hoggs gotta chime in and tell SBW ‘how to lose’ with more obvious and public pain?

Granted he’d be more an expert in that area but it’s well known SBW ‘rolls’ to his own tune and has simply found more internal perspective on life.

He’s also said the NRL championships were more important to him that the two rugby world cups. Big deal. He was far more integral to his League wins than sitting on the bench for Nonu for the large part and he’s a Leaguie at heart anyway.

Laughable that a guy who’s hardly won a thing is telling another who’s won far more in multiple sports, sides, club and country....how to approach losing. List so laughable in fact it’s not even funny.

Perhaps Hogg could do with a bit of Allah in his life to get the drift?

Eh?

I'm assuming that Miaow 'character' is not joining in with the usual childish nonsense you two partake in today?

by Taylorman Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:01 am

different world we live in these days. Overall I think transparency of almost anything that is said and done today is a good thing, compare to the non online days when the printed word was the domain of the press only and unrecorded gossip meant stones were generally left unturned publicly.

by **BigGee** Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:01 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50457224

EJs interview with John Beattie.

Actually nothing to controversial in it, though I am not sure how he worked out that our conditioning was off from our first warm up game. Quite a few sides were a bit off the [ace in their first warm up games and we bounced back from it well enough in the following weeks.

by Guest Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:04 am

RDW wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:Expect us to win the all blacks game as its essentially a meaningless (non-tournament) game

I couldn't care less what it was if we beat the ABs!

That would mean you'd be stuck with Townsend for at least 8 years, though...

by **BigGee** Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:10 am

If he beats the ABs he can be our coach for the rest of his life!

by bsando Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:11 am

BigGee wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50457224

EJs interview with John Beattie.

Actually nothing to controversial in it, though I am not sure how he worked out that our conditioning was off from our first warm up game. Quite a few sides were a bit off the [ace in their first warm up games and we bounced back from it well enough in the following weeks.

True but it was a pretty deflating game and rubbish way to kick start the RWC campaign after all the social media posts declaring how much work was going on behind the scenes. Who knows, personally I had expected a full strength side to play in that game in Nice. Sending a mixed side over was a strange call in my opinion.

by Taylorman Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:14 am

RDW wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:Expect us to win the all blacks game as its essentially a meaningless (non-tournament) game

I couldn't care less what it was if we beat the ABs!

First up after seven months the ABs are generally not great, despite the scores reflecting otherwise. After four months of some serious high quality Super rugby for some reason the AB combinations just don’t ever click in the first half of the first test of the year. With a new coach, captain and several leaving a good chance for Scotland to get its first win here.

ABs losing these days doesn’t seem to be given the bad treatment NZers used to give it provided we are bringing players through, and, they recover from the loss quickly, something they always do, Wales the most recent example, Eden park the previous.

Wales getting tests two and three is the raw end of the deal as usually when the season opener is over they start hitting their straps.

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