Australia v Wales - 29/9/19, RWC, k/o 8:45 GMT - Match Thread - Aus 25-29 Wales

[Guest]

First topic message reminder :

Massive game this. Surely decides who wins Pool D and - at this stage - avoids both NZ and England in the knock-outs.

A real 50:50, too close to call game for me.



Wales : L Williams; North, Jonathan Davies, Parkes, Adams; Biggar, G Davies; Wyn Jones, Owens, Francis, Ball, Alun Wyn Jones (capt), Wainwright, Tipuric, Navidi.
Replacements: Smith, Dee, Lewis, Shingler, Moriarty, T Williams, Patchell, Watkin.


Australia : Haylett-Petty; Ashley-Cooper, O'Connor, Kerevi, Koroibete; Foley, Genia; Sio, Latu, Alaalatoa, Rodda, Arnold, Pocock, Hooper (capt), Naisarani.
Replacements: Uelese, Slipper, Kepu, Coleman, Salakaia-Loto, White, To'omua, Beale.

Officials: Referee, Romain Poite (France) GOOD LUCK EVERYONE; Assistant referees, Luke Pearce (England), Karl Dickson (England); TMO Ben Skeen (New Zealand).

[mikey_dragon]

Questionable 14 point swing?

Go back and read what I already said on the matter.

[SecretFly]

Yeah. The word is still 'questionable' on second reading.

I'm saying I have no questions. Quite beautfiful rugby actually - a condensed dollop of it.

Good win for Wales though. Looking good enough to go quite a way.

[mikey_dragon]

The officials should have questioned it on both occasions. It's the least you can do when a player has committed a foul.

[Guest]

Watch us lose to Fiji now in a week or so!

[SecretFly]

Watch us lose to Fiji now in a week or so!  

Don't believe it, Oracle. Wales too good.

[mikey_dragon]

Fat chance of losing to Fiji when they've just lost to Uruguay, and Wales have just beaten Aus. Where was that English guy who was putting money on a Fiji win?

[Yoda]

I don't know what chieka is on, since when has a hand off involved a closed fist and elbow combo? It has never been legal. Hooper was lucky too, lined Biggar up and no arms into head. It was his selection of foley that let Australia down, he doesn't have the players around foley to suit his game. Is Liam Williams crocked or just a flesh wound?

[TightHEAD]

@ majesticimperialman because Pie has many years of experience of sitting at home watching Aus and England play in the RWC whilst his team is on the plane home

Let's just cheer on all the Home Nations, they are Lions after all. Non of us want to See Aus win, especially after how they have behaved!

[No9]

Cheika said: "He put his arm into his chest. I don't know if that is illegal or not. I don't know the rules any more, honestly.“

What an embarrassing thing for a coach of a top nation to say. And I thought it was supposed to be whinging poms, how things turn.

As for putting his arms into his chest, look again, only this time keep your eyes open. Don’t know if they teach anatomy differently down under, but the throat is not the chest.

And for Hooper to blame it on Pathcells tackle technique, what’s his excuse when he decided to try and take Biggar out. He should be cited for that, personally, I believe both incidents should be cited.

Interesting I got a red mark for this yesterday, when there’s a lot saying the same as me today....

[mikey_dragon]

No.9, if you want more green bars then just say something obnoxious about Wales.

[No9]

Careful now mikey, that’s got you a red bar

[mikey_dragon]

A few more red bars for me and I’ll be catching up to LD; that guy loves a red bar .

[Taylorman]

Well regardless, it isnt the first time Kerevi has done this so I think someone will be looking to put one on him during this tournament. Sad, but probably true.

If a person in Cheika's position can't appraise something from a player safety position 'at all' then its a sad position for the game.

[Cyril]

Without wanting this to be a NH vs SH issue, it does seem to be the South that don’t give a toss about this historically. NZ leading the way, eh Taylor? You can’t be surprised if the Aussies close ranks and follow your lead?

[SecretFly]

I gave you a green bar there just to annoy you, mike. I know it ain't your favourite colour

[Taylorman]

Without wanting this to be a NH vs SH issue, it does seem to be the South that don’t give a toss about this historically. NZ leading the way, eh Taylor? You can’t be surprised if the Aussies close ranks and follow your lead?

I think its something we all do and if you look at the incidents so far at this tournament I think you'll find this is indeed a global issue. I don't really get why neither Read nor Moody werent cited. Was it picked up late or something. Didnt follow it that closely, saw the replay and thought yep, no good.

[Cyril]

What are these green and red bars? I can’t see them.

[Taylorman]

Click the + or - to the right. Ive just done one on yours.... It represents a like or dislike...

[Cyril]

I can’t see them on the app. Must be on the other version. Weird that this forum is so centred on using the ‘web’ option and not the ‘mobile’ one. Not the most forward-thinking forum!

[Taylorman]

I can’t see them on the app. Must be on the other version. Weird that this forum is so centred on using the ‘web’ option and not the ‘mobile’ one. Not the most forward-thinking forum!

Yes I always use the web version, on phone or otherwise, used to it from the earlier days when it was only that...

[No9]

Click the + or - to the right. Ive just done one on yours.... It represents a like or dislike...

For some reason they dont appear on all browsers.. Cant see them on Chrome, or Safari (on iPad), and now they seem to have gone on IE11 on Win 10.

[Pie]

They'll beat Eng in the 1/4s....thats assuming England make sure they top their group. I cant see any reason why the Rising Sons won't win the group now, can anyone else??

What makes you think that? That Australia will beat England, please explain why you think Australia will beat will beat England?

I only expect them to do it once but they will.

[maestegmafia]

They'll beat Eng in the 1/4s....thats assuming England make sure they top their group. I cant see any reason why the Rising Sons won't win the group now, can anyone else??

What makes you think that? That Australia will beat England, please explain why you think Australia will beat will beat England?

I only expect them to do it once but they will.

The Wallabies are improving every game rapidly. James O’Connor at centre is starting to look like a great decision, reminds me of old Timmy Horan.

I thought Genia and a Foley took a bit too much criticism, there was so much they did well. Kerevi was a monster in the centre. Pocock is still quietly getting back to fitness after a year out of the game and only a few very elated warm ups prior to this match. With Jordan Petia to come into the mix and hodges ban over in a week.

There is also the matches that lead up to the 1/4s Australia have Georgia and Uruguay, good tests but games they should excel in.

[Poorfour]

There is also the matches that lead up to the 1/4s Australia have Georgia and Uruguay, good tests but games they should excel in.

So... Australia will be better prepared for a game against England because they've had two fairly soft tests leading up to it? Interesting logic. If England come out of the France game with a string of injuries, then maybe.

But on the other hand, England's record against Australia in this RWC cycle reads WWWWWW with an average winning margin of 15 points. And on the evidence of the first couple of games, England's defence might be a shade behind Wales's, but our scrum won't get munched. There's still more to come in attack, but I don't think England have started their taper; we'll have a better idea of what shape they're really in after the weekend.

Eddie also hasn't made the mistake that Lancaster did and tried to reshape the England pack without any games to bed it in.

[LondonTiger]

Sorry to hark back to Kerevi but.......

Reading my paper today they mentioned what they called a similar case with a Scarlets player banned for 3 weeks (Kieron Fonotia). Pivac apparently stating the decision was wrong. Not being a 24/7 follower of Pro14, can anyone provide more info?

[maestegmafia]

Sorry to hark back to Kerevi but.......

Reading my paper today they mentioned what they called a similar case with a Scarlets player banned for 3 weeks (Kieron Fonotia). Pivac apparently stating the decision was wrong. Not being a 24/7 follower of Pro14, can anyone provide more info?

No idea.

There have been numerous incidents where an attacking player has been punished for illegal use of the elbow. Like scrum feeds or crocked line outs they are punished so rarely I guess many fans don’t recognise the laws.

[LondonTiger]

Just found this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/45883373

[maestegmafia]

Just found this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/45883373

Vaguely remember it. Can’t find footage.

[TightHEAD]

What are these green and red bars? I can’t see them.

I can't see them, I'm only on -48!

[Guest]

Click the + or - to the right. Ive just done one on yours.... It represents a like or dislike...

For some reason they dont appear on all browsers.. Cant see them on Chrome, or Safari (on iPad), and now they seem to have gone on IE11 on Win 10.

I've got them on chrome on my work desktop and laptop. And I have them on my phone and ipad (but I don't use the mobile version. Prefer the classic version on my mobile devices).

[LondonTiger]

Click the + or - to the right. Ive just done one on yours.... It represents a like or dislike...

For some reason they dont appear on all browsers.. Cant see them on Chrome, or Safari (on iPad), and now they seem to have gone on IE11 on Win 10.

I've got them on chrome on my work desktop and laptop.  And I have them on my phone and ipad (but I don't use the mobile version.  Prefer the classic version on my mobile devices).

Except for ipad (never bothered with a tablet) all of this.

[Guest]

Watched the game again this morning as no work. A few interesting things stood out for me.

Tipuric was insanely good. Man of the match, easily. His work at the breakdown was amazing, and must be the fittest man in the team as he kept going when everyone else was out on their feet. Defensively brlliant, made some crucial tackles, and offered an option in attack. Nullified Pooper, and won a key turnover, forcing a knock on in final 10 minutes that should have tied up the win.

For all the talk Wales were lucky etc., I disagree. Wales were shattered after 65 minutes with 4 points in it, but so were Australia. Pocock looked done even before Hooper's try. They were blowing just the same as Wales but possession was king. Their replacements really helped them out, as everything good they did came from their outside backs and replacement forwards carrying the ball. However, after they made it 25-26, they kept making errors due to fatigue. Lots of penalties when they got back within 1 point. Kepu racing offside on halfway, the Rodda interfering with the resulting lineout. Patchell: penalty kick, 3 points. Fatigue was a major factor for both sides, and I'm not so sure that Australia were on the verge of getting the decisive score. Could easily have been Wales to profit. Haylett Petty was used well and gained ground against tired bodies - Liam Williams never got a chance. There's a lesson there - use your best runners when the opposition flags.

I got it wrong thinking Wales never really had a chance in the second half, that Oz just kept scoring points. After first try - which was a glaring forward pass by Genia - it was back and forth with box kicks and a few set pieces. Gareth Davies nearly intercepted again. So close to what would have been killer try. Instead, the reply didn't show the non-try - it showed Adams' high hit on the big screen. TMO didn't pick it up, it was in the stadium. Penalty there kept Wales on the defensive, and eventually leads to second try in final quarter.

Wales were a bit unlucky in that second half with the flow of the game. Never really got a foothold, but when they did, they scored 3 points each time. Twice. 6 points - it won the game. Need to be more decisive when making breaks though.

Definitely needed a bit more leadership at times, particularly final 10 minutes. The final scrum that put Wales on the backfoot came from deciding to scrum from a free kick on the Australian 22. Navidi naivety at the base, holding it in too long, as secondary shove won the penalty. Surely a prime position to truck it up and get another drop goal, take the lead to 7, and effectively hold out for 3 minutes. Also a few other issues with generally controlling and grabbing the game. Of counter punching, working off the ropes, so to speak, and delivering a lethal blow. Showed hints of promise.

AWJ is a great motivator but not in the same league as Warburton as an on field captain. He comes across as aggressive and a bit confrontational and had lost Poite by the final 20 minutes - he listened to nothing AWJ said. Needs to pick his moments better.

JD2 really poor game defensively. Was well exploited by Oz. Kicked ok and carried ok and passed ok, in fact. But not a good game in defence.

Wales actually look really good. Think that was a 4th gear performance. I'm not sure how longthey can hit 5th gear, but they need to to win a semi final. They need to not have a game where they concede 17 consecutive points, basically. Australia were always going to score, but there needed to be that 'extra gear' that stopped them dominating the play and settling back down in to defensive mode. We'll need 6th gear to beat NZ in a final, so really could do with seeing the potential for a 5th gear against France/in the QF. Better performance than anything in the 6Ns - genuinely thought that was all 3rd gear with hints of 4th gear against England and Ireland, if that makes sense. And this was much better. But still things to work on.

Absolutely no offloads, but passing and drawing the man was much better first half than usual. Passing was a bit too early in the second. Signs of life to the attack though. If Adams had a yard or two more pace he'd be lethal.

[LondonTiger]

For all the talk Wales were lucky etc., I disagree. 

Has anyone really said Wales were lucky?

[mikey_dragon]

Did they actually name a MOTM? I don't recall.

[LondonTiger]

Did they actually name a MOTM? I don't recall.

Gareth Davies

[mikey_dragon]

Fair call. He was very good and made a key difference to the outcome. Next in line was probably Tips, Navidi, and then AWJ.

Hopefully if you watched it back then you also seen the amount of Aus lineouts not straight. Beggars belief how they're all crying about the ref down under.

[BamBam]

Yeah, imagine spending all your time complaining about a French referee. Ludicrous way to behave!

[Guest]

For all the talk Wales were lucky etc., I disagree. 

Has anyone really said Wales were lucky?

Saw one of our Kiwi posters on here say it a few times, but I also think the general idea that Wales were clinging on. Not so sure - think Australia blew a gasket getting the scores back and didn't have anything left in the tank. If they were to score, it was by carrying their locks and Pocock etc. while the replacement backs ran it wide, and their front row replacements did the hard yards. A tactc that might work, but felt Wales could just as easily exploit them and their fatigue - as they did with mistakes - and score at the other end. The fnal 2 mnutes saw them go nowhere ball in hand. Think Wales turned over, kicked back, Oz ran back, then Wales turned them over again. A bit more control and composure in the second half and the score would have been more comfortable - one moment where the players assumed it was knocked on and just kicked it out of play. Wasn't knocked on, off foot. Things lke that are key - just getting a bit more focus, a bit more dog back in them, relishing the contest of a comeback, and striking Australia back just as they got their hopes up.

[mikey_dragon]

Yeah, imagine spending all your time complaining about a French referee. Ludicrous way to behave!

Who does that, Cheika?

[SecretFly]

Wales weren't clinging on.  But Australia did have a quite potent purple bloom at the right moment in the game that had it lasted even five minutes more, and if their last kick for a penalty went to the corner instead of over the post, then it's reasonable to assume they might have gone on and won.

Wales got their impetus back in time to prevent that.  It was still a very slick comeback attempt from a dangerous team in attack.

[Guest]

Well I certainly felt we were hanging on at times there!  When it went to 26-25, or similar, I was certain they'd score again and we'd lose.  That's when I went for a shower and stayed there until the game was over!  

[mikey_dragon]

Those were like the games of old, except it would be Aus accumulating points early on and Wales fighting to get back at it. I remember back then how people on here would say that Aus never even looked like losing, Wales weren't close, etc. Fake fans can be a fickle bunch .

I was convinced it would get ugly unless we could get more territory and possession, which we did. Disappointing how we didn't effectively deal with their strike runners.

[mikey_dragon]

I reviewed the Biggar tackle, he put his head on the wrong side. Which 100% idiot was saying it was an illegal challenge by Biggar? Hooper's before that should have been yellow, he wasn't static at all.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Watched the game again this morning as no work. A few interesting things stood out for me.

Tipuric was insanely good. Man of the match, easily. His work at the breakdown was amazing, and must be the fittest man in the team as he kept going when everyone else was out on their feet. Defensively brlliant, made some crucial tackles, and offered an option in attack. Nullified Pooper, and won a key turnover, forcing a knock on in final 10 minutes that should have tied up the win.

For all the talk Wales were lucky etc., I disagree. Wales were shattered after 65 minutes with 4 points in it, but so were Australia. Pocock looked done even before Hooper's try. They were blowing just the same as Wales but possession was king. Their replacements really helped them out, as everything good they did came from their outside backs and replacement forwards carrying the ball. However, after they made it 25-26, they kept making errors due to fatigue. Lots of penalties when they got back within 1 point. Kepu racing offside on halfway, the Rodda interfering with the resulting lineout. Patchell: penalty kick, 3 points. Fatigue was a major factor for both sides, and I'm not so sure that Australia were on the verge of getting the decisive score. Could easily have been Wales to profit. Haylett Petty was used well and gained ground against tired bodies - Liam Williams never got a chance. There's a lesson there - use your best runners when the opposition flags.

I got it wrong thinking Wales never really had a chance in the second half, that Oz just kept scoring points. After first try - which was a glaring forward pass by Genia - it was back and forth with box kicks and a few set pieces. Gareth Davies nearly intercepted again. So close to what would have been killer try. Instead, the reply didn't show the non-try - it showed Adams' high hit on the big screen. TMO didn't pick it up, it was in the stadium. Penalty there kept Wales on the defensive, and eventually leads to second try in final quarter.

Wales were a bit unlucky in that second half with the flow of the game. Never really got a foothold, but when they did, they scored 3 points each time. Twice. 6 points - it won the game. Need to be more decisive when making breaks though.

Definitely needed a bit more leadership at times, particularly final 10 minutes. The final scrum that put Wales on the backfoot came from deciding to scrum from a free kick on the Australian 22. Navidi naivety at the base, holding it in too long, as secondary shove won the penalty. Surely a prime position to truck it up and get another drop goal, take the lead to 7, and effectively hold out for 3 minutes. Also a few other issues with generally controlling and grabbing the game. Of counter punching, working off the ropes, so to speak, and delivering a lethal blow. Showed hints of promise.

AWJ is a great motivator but not in the same league as Warburton as an on field captain. He comes across as aggressive and a bit confrontational and had lost Poite by the final 20 minutes - he listened to nothing AWJ said. Needs to pick his moments better.

JD2 really poor game defensively. Was well exploited by Oz. Kicked ok and carried ok and passed ok, in fact. But not a good game in defence.

Wales actually look really good. Think that was a 4th gear performance. I'm not sure how longthey can hit 5th gear, but they need to to win a semi final. They need to not have a game where they concede 17 consecutive points, basically. Australia were always going to score, but there needed to be that 'extra gear' that stopped them dominating the play and settling back down in to defensive mode. We'll need 6th gear to beat NZ in a final, so really could do with seeing the potential for a 5th gear against France/in the QF. Better performance than anything in the 6Ns - genuinely thought that was all 3rd gear with hints of 4th gear against England and Ireland, if that makes sense. And this was much better. But still things to work on.

Absolutely no offloads, but passing and drawing the man was much better first half than usual. Passing was a bit too early in the second. Signs of life to the attack though. If Adams had a yard or two more pace he'd be lethal.

You mention Haylett-Petty - I was really impressed by him. I've seen him play before, but on the wing, I think, and I don't remember him doing much.

It was noticeable how often George North had the ball in his hands in the opening five minutes or so - it's something we haven't seen for a long time. He looked in really good nick. Made a lovely outside break in the second half too.

I actually thought Josh Adams looked more tentative than I've seen him for a while. I'm not saying he should be dropped, but he didn't seem to back himself.

[LondonTiger]

I reviewed the Biggar tackle, he put his head on the wrong side. Which 100% idiot was saying it was an illegal challenge by Biggar? Hooper's before that should have been yellow, he wasn't static at all.

I am one of the 100% idiots. After all putting your head the wrong side does not make it legal. miaow posted some stills that apparently showed an attempt to wrap the arms, I cannot see that. On video it still looks like a no arm tackle. 

I also disagree with you about Hooper. For me that challenge was worse than the one that saw the Uruguayan get red and I feel Hooper should have been off permanently.

[Guest]

Genuine question here, but it relates to the Biggar attempted tackle and subsequent head injury. If a player is run into when stationary, is this still counted as a tackle attempt. Biggar is sort of crouching but stationary and doesn’t ‘pounce’ to tackle, from memory. Doesn’t move towards the attacking player. Just sort of crouching and braced and then the player runs into him, head is in the wrong place for a tackle and Biggar gets a bang. So..... when is a tackle not a tackle but a player just being in the way and run over?! If that makes sense?

Similarly - an extreme example now.... but could a defender just stand there rooted to the spot, hands by his side, and get flattened by an attacking player but then the defender be penalised for a no arms tackle due to not attempting to tackle at all and not using his arms?! Not sure if I explained that well enough to show the weird inner workings of my brain!

[SecretFly]

Similarly - an extreme example now.... but could a defender just stand there rooted to the spot, hands by his side, and get flattened by an attacking player but then the defender be penalised for a no arms tackle due to not attempting to tackle at all and not using his arms?! Not sure if I explained that well enough to show the weird inner workings of my brain!

If the defender, simply standing there with his hands by his side, is big enough not to be shifted backwards by the incoming impetus of an attacking player at speed (i.e., extremely unlikely) - if the attacking player rebounds violently back off the defender, hitting the ground hard, perhaps losing the ball, perhaps getting a big injury (i.e., extremely unlikely) ..then I'd think maybe, just maybe, the defender who was just standing there with his hands by his side would be penalised for a no armed tackle.

But even massive players have to prepare their body to take the impact of a tackle if not moving.  They visibly prepare for impact, they visibly prepare to repel the energy coming at them in the guise of an attacking player.  So in reality they always show intent to tackle IF smart enough to want to preserve their own health.  If they are dumb, and just stand there exposing themselves passively to impact then yes, they're going to get toppled by the momentum of the incoming player.  But I don't think they'd be getting penalised.  I think they'd get taken to the nearest psychiatric ward and have their playing contract terminated...

[maestegmafia]

There is a bit of subjectivity in the law, understandably so. I know thee has been a bit of wrangling over whether or not certain referees calls were correct but in most cases, noting that this is the direction World Rugby are taking the game for safety reasons, each situation the correct decision has been made.

Kerevi could have lead with a hand rather than an elbow. The famous Maori side step that Kerevi used is against the laws of the game.

Tackling, on time or late with an elbow or a shoulder is against the laws of the game. Players need to make good tackles. They need to adapt Thierry technique appropriately.

[mikey_dragon]

I reviewed the Biggar tackle, he put his head on the wrong side. Which 100% idiot was saying it was an illegal challenge by Biggar? Hooper's before that should have been yellow, he wasn't static at all.

I am one of the 100% idiots. After all putting your head the wrong side does not make it legal. miaow posted some stills that apparently showed an attempt to wrap the arms, I cannot see that. On video it still looks like a no arm tackle. 

I also disagree with you about Hooper. For me that challenge was worse than the one that saw the Uruguayan get red and I feel Hooper should have been off permanently.

I'm not saying Biggar's tackle was legal because he put his head on the wrong side, that was just sloppy. It looked like a genuine tackle with an attempt to wrap from what I saw. I can't remember who was claiming it was illegal. Trying to recall at the time I last posted I thought it was some SH posters mentioning it as a way of cheap points scoring. Aus got away with bloody murder FACT.

[mikey_dragon]

Are we all talking about the same tackle? The one I'm referring to was on the big Aus winger which dislodged the ball - that's the one with his head on the wrong side

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