England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

First topic message reminder :

guildfordbat wrote:

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:The toss has proven to be most significant factor in the entire series. Root was fortunate he won the toss in every match - despite he moronic decision to bowl in Nottingham. Had the tosses been the opposite way around we could easily be 0-4 down as Kohli would've batted in Nottingham anyway.

The side is clearly in decline once Anderson and Broad leave the scene we may well struggle to even win at home.

Curran has been a decent find more for his batting, bowling isn't anything to write home about yet.

Moeen a decent comeback but his issues are he's hopeless away from England.

Cook and Jennings need scores at the Oval or i would hope both are dropped for Sri Lanka.

Root has shown in this series he's not of the class of a Smith, Kohli or Williamson. His stock has fallen big time.

Dropping is easy. Replacing is less so.

Burns and Vince. Need someone to get after the bowling on the Sri Lankan sandpits and Vince is a decent player of spin. Burns the guy the try and hold up an end.

Good first hour for India ...Rahul making sure to save his place after a pretty disappointing tour with the bat : think he will be happier in Australia. And they certainly will need his catching !

Thought it was 50/50 whether India would fold or fight this morning ; clearly the latter. Might be England are going to have to work pretty hard to wrap this up...though I fancy Moeen to do some damage once he gets into his stride...

In any case India have avoided the ignominy of collapsing completely - as it appeared they well might at 2/3 ! Good to see some spirit even with Kohli falling early

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

alfie wrote:

Marky wrote:Stuart Broad has broken a rib it seems, so unlikely to bowl today. Hopefully he won't be needed.

Guess there's broken ribs and broken ribs...if he can bowl at 80 plus I suspect there is some exaggeration in that medical report .

The cynical part of brain is saying it might be an "injury" that keeps Broad out of the last couple of round of county championship games...giving him a proper rest ahead of the winter...

Wonder if Jimmy may pick up a similar niggle...

Don't need to though , do they ? Central contracts mean they rest when instructed , no ?

alfie wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

alfie wrote:

Marky wrote:Stuart Broad has broken a rib it seems, so unlikely to bowl today. Hopefully he won't be needed.

Guess there's broken ribs and broken ribs...if he can bowl at 80 plus I suspect there is some exaggeration in that medical report .

The cynical part of brain is saying it might be an "injury" that keeps Broad out of the last couple of round of county championship games...giving him a proper rest ahead of the winter...

Wonder if Jimmy may pick up a similar niggle...

Don't need to though , do they ?  Central contracts mean they rest when instructed , no ?

True - but it'll go down better with the members and media if they're "injured" rather than "rested" - especially in the case of Anderson, with the predicament Lancs are in...

Rather a soft end for Rahane after all that resistance...

And Jennings caught one

Vihari had a good first knock...after a bit of good fortune surviving the first few overs and actually getting off the mark ! Wonder if he can back it up today ?
If he can't ; the wheels might come off properly...

And that Stokes delivery shows why you always keep a slip in !

Despite his heroics with the bat, Curran's work with the ball has been pretty hit and miss since Edgbaston. Very poor spell there

Vihari all at sea against the short ball there - not promising for his prospects of going on tour to Australia....

And Vihari can't back it up...gone already.

Stokes putting some aggressive stuff down...things might happen quickly now.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Despite his heroics with the bat, Curran's work with the ball has been pretty hit and miss since Edgbaston. Very poor spell there

Bit harsh ? This isn't really the ideal pitch for him (home ground or no) and he's been rather sparingly used. He's taken some vital wickets and I'm not too disappointed with what I've seen from him : I'd call him one for the future , even if he has to carry a few drink trays in the short to medium term.
His left arm variety will always help keep him in the frame. And I think he might get a little quicker yet.

alfie wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Despite his heroics with the bat, Curran's work with the ball has been pretty hit and miss since Edgbaston. Very poor spell there

Bit harsh ?  This isn't really the ideal pitch for him (home ground or no) and he's been rather sparingly used.  He's taken some vital wickets and I'm not too disappointed with what I've seen from him : I'd call him one for the future , even if he has to carry a few drink trays in the short to medium term.
His left arm variety will always help keep him in the frame. And I think he might get a little quicker yet.

Oh of course he's one for the future - but when he's bowling full tosses wide of off stump, I can't call it anything other than a poor spell! (and I'm #1 fan in the Sam Curran fan club )

Would like to see him tour this winter - might not get too much of a go in Sri Lanka, but should get more of a game in the WIndies.

Could do with getting his speeds consistently up from 80-82mph to 85-87mph - that coupled with his whippy action and evident ability to swing the ball could make him very tough to handle...

Will be interesting to see which pace men they take on tour. Will either of the main men sit this one out ? Is there room for Curran and Woakes ? Any wild cards ? More later ...

For now : well done Rahul...well deserved century Game would be over by now otherwise.

Only the second opener to score a fifty in the whole series which shows how tough it's been at the top of the order. He might need a new partner for the Australia trip though...

Nearly lunch ...does Root have Rashid's phone number ?

Would currannot be better with the luons and performance squads?
England are unlikely to play more than 3 seamers...one if which is stokes. If they want some pace that doesnt mean many spots for curran even if broad and anderson are resred.
He was well down the pecking order before this summer and his bolwing has showb nothi g spsctatcular even in favourable conditions. Theres better bowlers coming back to fitness.
Hes better off with the development teams when he has little chance of playing a test. Adding that 5mph isny going to come carrying drinks.

Anyway some nice resistance from Rahul but cant see the tail offering much. I dont even know if Ishants really fit to bat properly, and the others must be exhausted after bowling enourmous amounts of balls at the end of a long series.

The curious case of KL Rahul, clearly very talented but seems to have a scrambled brain in Test cricket. I saw his hundred at Sydney a few years ago against Johnson and co to no mean feat. But according to the stats since 2016 he has the grand total of three centuries across all formats(199 at Bangalore, 101* at Manchester and now 107* at the Oval - all against England). That's no other first class, list a or t20 hundreds. A certain Ian Chappell was raving about Rahul, has t20 ruined his technique or mental approach?

Gooseberry wrote:Would currannot be better with the luons and performance squads?
England are unlikely to play more than 3 seamers...one if which is stokes. If they want some pace that doesnt mean many spots for curran even if broad and anderson are resred.
He was well down the pecking order before this summer and his bolwing has showb nothi g spsctatcular even in favourable conditions. Theres better bowlers coming back to fitness.
Hes better off with the development teams when he has little chance of playing a test. Adding that 5mph isny going to come carrying drinks.

Anyway some nice resistance from Rahul but cant see the tail offering much. I dont even know if Ishants really fit to bat properly, and the others must be exhausted after bowling enourmous amounts of balls at the end of a long series.

A good question. One we may debate at some length after this is over...

India only losing two wickets is better for them than I'd expected. Still Jadeja to come. Still when Pant goes (surely any minute ?) they'll be on ice. Can't see the tail hanging around today.

Wonder if Jimmy will get that wicket ?

Rahul has done enough to stay on and his is looking "in the zone"

Vihari was unlucky to get that Brute of a delivery so early......it's only luck that saves you early on when you get balls like that

Rahane blew it away...tamely......after having yet another start...the balance of rope left for him is becoming shorter....he's expected to average 45 + and not 30dd

Pant fighting for his career now...needs a 70 odd.....as Nasser pointed out....he is a block-block-block....and go for a predetermined hit....he's not natural stroke player
a 30 odd won't be enough to save him

alfie wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Would currannot be better with the luons and performance squads?
England are unlikely to play more than 3 seamers...one if which is stokes. If they want some pace that doesnt mean many spots for curran even if broad and anderson are resred.
He was well down the pecking order before this summer and his bolwing has showb nothi g spsctatcular even in favourable conditions. Theres better bowlers coming back to fitness.
Hes better off with the development teams when he has little chance of playing a test. Adding that 5mph isny going to come carrying drinks.

Anyway some nice resistance from Rahul but cant see the tail offering much. I dont even know if Ishants really fit to bat properly, and the others must be exhausted after bowling enourmous amounts of balls at the end of a long series.

A good question.  One we may debate at some length after this is over...

India only losing two wickets is better for them than I'd expected.  Still Jadeja to come.  Still when Pant goes (surely any minute ?) they'll be on ice.  Can't see the tail hanging around today.

Wonder if Jimmy will get that wicket ?

Going to the Windies would seem more logical than Sri Lanka to me.

Jadejas bowled 77 overs in the match, he'd be forgiven for not wanting to hang around with the bat when he does get in.

...all the same its just starting to whiff of incredible draw.
Did not expect India to last this long at all, let alone only be 5 down. England still in the boss seat and just need to stick at it but theres that first wave of doubt coming over now. Its not impossible to save the test from here.

Gooseberry wrote:...all the same its just starting to whiff of incredible draw.
Did not expect India to last this long at all, let alone only be 5 down. England still in the boss seat and just need to stick at it but theres that first wave of doubt coming over now. Its not impossible to save the test from here.

Not impossible - albeit they'll have to survive another new ball burst from Broad/Anderson. And only really Jadeja to come, these two will need to do a lot of the heavy lifting.

Pant is playing very nicely here

New ball a fair way off yet. Might have been worth a couple of overs from Jimmy after lunch ? A little disturbing the spinners having no impact : I've not seen a lot since lunch - have they threatened at all ? Pitch seems to have quietened down...

Pant surprising me - thought he'd be gone long ago. Putting in a claim to keep his spot ?

Still fancy a clatter when/ if (?) this stand is broken. Long way to go...

If the pitches in Sri Lanka are going to be absolute rank turners , as we're told , I think Leach might be a better bet than Rashid.
Pity we have seen so little of him at this level - not that they could help the injury.
Can't shake the idea that Rashid is just a white ball bowler and really would be better reserved for that stuff. Love to see him prove me wrong...

Finger spin definitely goes better in SL. In recent times Herath, Danajaya, Jadeja. Ashwin and maharaj have taken bucket loads.

KP_fan wrote:Rahul has done enough to stay on and his is looking "in the zone"

Vihari was unlucky to get that Brute of a delivery so early......it's only luck that saves you early on when you get balls like that

Rahane blew it away...tamely......after having yet another start...the balance of rope left for him is becoming shorter....he's expected to average 45 + and not 30dd

Pant fighting for his career now...needs a 70 odd.....as Nasser pointed out....he is a block-block-block....and go for a predetermined hit....he's not natural stroke player
a 30 odd won't be enough to save him

Pant saves his career

alfie wrote:If the pitches in Sri Lanka are going to be absolute rank turners , as we're told , I think Leach might be a better bet than Rashid.
Pity we have seen so little of him at this level - not that they could help the injury.  
Can't shake the idea that Rashid is just a white ball bowler and really would be better reserved for that stuff.  Love to see him prove me wrong...

Why instead of?

The obvious choice would be to play 3 spinners, with Moeen in as a batting all rounder. Essentialy the same line up as now, just with a seamer swapped for Leach. (Plus a new opener, Woakes for Curran etc). Its is looking like Roots lost a bit of faith in Rashid though, bowling himself more than the specialist.

If England can use 3 spinners in a home test they will surely want 3 proper ones in Sri Lanaka rather than relying on Root/Jennings or whoever to fiddle part time overs.


Meanwhile Pants clsoing in on the 70 KPF was demanding he gets to keep a place. Bit of humble pie in the offing?
Just goes to show you never know where you are at in this series, it keep springing surprises. More than a whiff of a draw now, although it could well be a very rapid capitulation once one wicket goes.It almost feels like England are waiting for the new ball now. Broad and Anderson have been held back and kept fresh

Would be shocked if England's spinners for the SL tour aren't Moeen, Rashid and Leach, with Bess as backup. Virdi and Parkinson likely to go on the Lions tour.

Broad back into the attack now - Pant continuing to bat superbly

I thought India will lose by more than 300 here. But they have fought back, though they will still lose. However Pant seems a promising future. Though Vihari went without scoring, he will bat in Australia.

The only lesson India need to learn from this 5 match series is Dhawan should not be considered for test outside Asia.

Olly ...no Crane then?

I was never massively sold on him but it wpuld be a hell of fall to not even make the lions.

Not quite sure why Pant need 'needed a score to save his career'. The kid is 20 years old not 40 years old. He's had a tough start but was he actually selected to the tour to play or was he there just to gain experience? It's the woeful form of Karthik and Saha being injured lead to his playing before he's probably ready.

subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:I thought India will lose by more than 300 here. But they have fought back, though they will still lose. However Pant seems a promising future. Though Vihari went without scoring, he will bat in Australia.

The only lesson India need to learn from this 5 match series is Dhawan should not be considered for test outside Asia.

Shouldn't dhawan just be pensioned off? That youngster Shaw is waiting in the wings

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Not quite sure why Pant need 'needed a score to save his career'. The kid is 20 years old not 40 years old. He's had a tough start but was he actually selected to the tour to play or was he there just to gain experience? It's the woeful form of Karthik and Saha being injured lead to his playing before he's probably ready.

Exactly. The lad is quite young, and if mid-seniors get more than 10 innings in the team instead of scoring less than 30 in all, Pant atleast has shown that he can block the balls, and that is also necessary. India would have won the Edgbaston test if any one of the batsmen other than Kohli had played more than 100 balls in any one innings of the two.

Hey Goose...I wan't totally meaning to write Rashid off ; rather I meant Leach as a definite and Rashid one of a possible third spinner. It does rather seem though that Root has little confidence in him so I do wonder if he is inked in for the trip...

Right now I think the lack of success for the spinners is something of a concern for Sri Lanka .

Wonder if England thought they just had to turn up today ? Looks a bit flat...although Anderson and Broad have already induced the odd mistake...

Gooseberry wrote:Olly ...no Crane then?

I was never massively sold on him but it wpuld be a hell of fall to not even make the lions.

Well he's currently in the midst of recovering from his second serious back injury within a few months (and has basically missed this whole county season). Even if he is fit in time (unlikely), it's probably best for him to have a winter off and get a full pre-season under his belt to attempt a comeback next year

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:

subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:I thought India will lose by more than 300 here. But they have fought back, though they will still lose. However Pant seems a promising future. Though Vihari went without scoring, he will bat in Australia.

The only lesson India need to learn from this 5 match series is Dhawan should not be considered for test outside Asia.

Shouldn't dhawan just be pensioned off? That youngster Shaw is waiting in the wings

Well In my opinion Shaw should have played atleast two games in this series for he was here for two un-official test matches and was well acclimatised to the condition. But the nepotism always play its card. Pujara or Rahane are always dropped after a bad game or two, but Dhawan will never be dropped. Also the Coach is not very liked by Indian fans.

Kohli might be the best batsmen in the world but he is not the best captain if team selection are concerned. Though his supporters will give his stats in India, but it is true that in India you just need two spinners and your work is done.

Another 15 overs of this and India might win.

Pant closing on an unlikely hundred...

How many overs left ? Could India actually chase down this target ? Surely not...but they're going along so comfortably at the moment almost anything is possible...

To all my English friends here, please explain Why Rashid is in the team? He doesnot bat, nor does he bowl and his fielding qualities are also visible and none gives a picture for selection. Is he the nepotism wonder of your team?

Do the Indians try to go for glory and win this match. Pant is playing some attacking cricket. If the conditions have really become benign maybe there is some rationale for filling ones boots while one can.

Duty281 wrote:Another 15 overs of this and India might win.

I was looking for you man. You were more confident on India this series than any of the Indian fans. Just kidding

Wow extraordinary way to bring up a maiden hundred. Well played youngster

Hundred for Pant

Shocked me ; he didn't look capable of this in any of his earlier innings...must have been fired up by KP_fan's writing him off

Looking as if England are going to need Anderson and Broad to do some heavy lifting after tea to save a lot of embarrassment .

I can't answer the Rashid question. Wouldn't pick him in the Test team ever again, leave him to ODIs. Talk about a player being carried, he's done virtually nothing this series

If all the overs of the day are bowled apparently India need about 5 runs per over.

Gonna take something pretty monumental for them to win, but a draw is not off the cards...new ball obviously a big factor.

Can't see the win. Anderson bowled four maidens in a row there. They won't be facing the garbage bowling of Rashid much longer, if at all. Still feel one goes down to the new ball, the rest will follow quickly

alfie wrote:Hundred for Pant

Shocked me ; he didn't look capable of this in any of his earlier innings...must have been fired up by KP_fan's writing him off

Looking as if England are going to need Anderson and Broad to do some heavy lifting after tea to save a lot of embarrassment .

Give a flat track and all FTB's raise their head in dominance

Root, Cook, Jadeja, Pant and Rahul

So expect 90 overs per day.  England have bowled 57 overs today - so there are 33 overs to be bowled.  Currently 298-5 and 166 more to win.  They need to score at a rate of 5.00 runs an over to tie the score and anything better than that will see them win.

Draw and Eng win are 50-50
India win is still quite a lot outside the equation

Remarkable session for India . These two totally dominant and England not sure what to do about it.

166 needed in what , 30, 35 overs ? Unlikely ; but still Jadeja to bat and only Anderson seems capable of arresting the scoring . Certainly if they keep this rate up Root will be forced to defend rather than press for wickets ; so the draw becomes much more likely.

Time for things to change ; but this is looking disturbingly like a typical last day England bowling effort under Root's captaincy. (West Indies chasing down last year , NZ batting out for a draw ). Maybe not fair to blame the skipper ; but a bit of a pattern here...

131/0 in that session. It's new ball or bust for England.

32 overs left means India need to go at 5.2 per over. This partnership is currently rolling along at 4.61 per over, so it's well within India's scope if these two carry on for another hour plus.

An early wicket, of course, means India will be back to clinging on for the draw.

Rather coincidentally, there was this question on University Challenge last night:

In 2017, who followed Norman Yardley, David Gower and Kevin Pietersen to become the fourth men's England cricket captain to lose a test after declaring in the third innings?

The answer was, of course, Joe Root after the Windies' magnificent chase at Headingley last year. Surely he's not going to be the first to do it twice?!

KP_fan wrote:

alfie wrote:Hundred for Pant

Shocked me ; he didn't look capable of this in any of his earlier innings...must have been fired up by KP_fan's writing him off

Looking as if England are going to need Anderson and Broad to do some heavy lifting after tea to save a lot of embarrassment .

Give a flat track and all FTB's raise their head in dominance

Root, Cook, Jadeja, Pant and Rahul

Obviously , Kohli can only bat on bowlers' decks...