Warren Gatland 'done' with the British and Irish Lions

by **RDW** Tue 17 Oct 2017, 9:26 am

First topic message reminder :

He's not holding back

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41645590 wrote:Warren Gatland says he "won't subject himself" to taking charge of the British and Irish Lions in 2021.

The Wales coach led the Lions to victory in Australia in 2013, and to a draw in New Zealand this summer.

But the 54-year-old says he will not take charge for the next tour to South Africa, citing the abuse he suffered and the difficulty of putting a winning team together in such a short time.

The New Zealander said: "I'm done. Let someone else reinvent the wheel."

Gatland revealed he had been "hurt" by criticism from within the camp, notably from Ireland flanker Sean O'Brien.

While the Lions' six-week, 10-match tour of New Zealand ended with a creditable drawn series - the Lions have only won once there in 100 years - a feature of the series was the level of abuse directed towards Gatland.

That included the New Zealand Herald newspaper featuring a cartoon of him as a red-nosed clown.

Speaking on Monday, Gatland said: "I hated the tour. I did. I just hated the press and the negativity in New Zealand.

"When I look back on it now, there were a lot of things that were satisfying and what an achievement it was, but it was tough work. It was hard."

Gatland had suggested he would be prepared to take charge for a third time in 2021, but when asked on Monday, he said: "I wouldn't subject myself to that.

"What I've learned from my Lions experiences is how difficult it is to put some continuity together in terms of people and staff, and the lack of preparation time. Let someone else do it."

However, Gatland said there was "something magical about the Lions" and hopes the game's senior figures will help to preserve that magic - primarily by giving coaches more time to prepare a squad.

"A minimum is having a week in the UK before you go, and then trying to arrive there a minimum of five days before the first game," he said. "That wouldn't be ideal, but it would be adequate.

"That is all we are asking for - adequate preparation - to give yourself the best chance of doing well."

by eirebilly Sat 21 Oct 2017, 9:44 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:So for you he's the best coach in the world?

Really unsure how you come up with that? Even in my post I said he is one of the worlds best, did not claim he is the worlds best. I am not so sure anyone could claim that a coach is the best in the world if I may be honest as there is no way to benchmark as they all coach different sides with different strengths in depth and organisations.

There are not many coaches out there that could have done as well as he did for the Lions is my belief.

by Gwlad Sun 22 Oct 2017, 5:35 am

eirebilly wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:So for you he's the best coach in the world?

Really unsure how you come up with that? Even in my post I said he is one of the worlds best, did not claim he is the worlds best. I am not so sure anyone could claim that a coach is the best in the world if I may be honest as there is no way to benchmark as they all coach different sides with different strengths in depth and organisations.

There are not many coaches out there that could have done as well as he did for the Lions is my belief.

Ignore him he likes to put his own foot into other people's mouths.

by No 7&1/2 Sun 22 Oct 2017, 8:18 am

You said you doubt any other coach could have got the result he did on these tours billy. Hence my leap of a question on whether you would say he's the best coach in the world.

You've then changed it to many so ill assume that you've just missed out a letter on the 1st post.

by Guest Sun 22 Oct 2017, 9:06 am

7.5, who do you reckon could have done as good a job as Gatland?

by eirebilly Sun 22 Oct 2017, 9:22 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:You said you doubt any other coach could have got the result he did on these tours billy. Hence my leap of a question on whether you would say he's the best coach in the world.

You've then changed it to many so ill assume that you've just missed out a letter on the 1st post.

7&1/2,

Just for you, here is my original post.

eirebilly wrote:I don't get the criticism of Gatland. He is one of the worlds best coaches.

He has led Wales to 6N titles and GS's
He has led the Lions on 2 successful tours.
Has not had much success against SH sides but not many do.
Has not had great RWC success but again, there is a long list of top class International coaches in the same boat.

To me, his success as head coach of the Lions is the stand out. Getting a squad full of international players playing very different styles and plays and getting them to form a solid competitive team is excellent. I love the Lions and am very happy to have had Gatland lead them on the last 2 tours, I doubt very much if any other top class coach could have got the same results as him.

Clearly I say he is "one of the worlds best coaches"

I highlighted the second part as that is what I think you are referring too. I probably worded it incorrectly for posters like you who seemingly can only focus on one point in a post to create something else and put words in others mouths.

I do apologise for not being clear enough for you and I know hope you can understand what I am saying.

by No 7&1/2 Sun 22 Oct 2017, 9:23 am

I said previously I'd have liked them to pick o'shea. Anyone not currently linked to one of the countries in an official capacity.

by No 7&1/2 Sun 22 Oct 2017, 9:24 am

I do billy and that's why I asked the question.

by eirebilly Sun 22 Oct 2017, 9:34 am

Ok 7&1/2, I shall try to word it better next time so there is no confusion.

I believe that there are very few coaches that could have equalled or done better than Gatland with the lions.

Eddie Jones and Vern Cotter being the two coaches I feel would be very good Lions coaches. I would love to say Schmidt but he is far too tactical and would need much longer than many other coaches to get a team to understand and follow his game plans.

by eirebilly Sun 22 Oct 2017, 9:35 am

Still, my original point stands. I have no idea why there is so much criticism of Gatland. He will go down in history as one of the best Lions coaches ever.

by The Great Aukster Sun 22 Oct 2017, 7:27 pm

... except Gatland isn't a coach for the Lions in the sense he is for every other team. He says himself he didn't have enough preparation time, therefore he could not do his job. The results prove nothing when he couldn't actually do his job.

by No 7&1/2 Sun 22 Oct 2017, 7:32 pm

So you didn't enjoy any of the rugby then aukster.

by Gwlad Sun 22 Oct 2017, 8:56 pm

With what he had he did a bloody good job in the time he had bearing in mind the lack of commitment of some of his players. Anyone who is successful will have his detractors. Lets see what eddie Jones can do with it in 2021 after he loses the RWC (again)

by The Great Aukster Sun 22 Oct 2017, 9:00 pm

With a conclusion like that, perhaps you should follow the return to play protocols for a couple of weeks - otherwise some people might think you're half a player short of an 8.

by No 7&1/2 Sun 22 Oct 2017, 9:27 pm

It's hard to tell with you. You complain about the concept in the age of professionalism but it's probably the biggest example of it with huge profits etc. I was just wondering if after the grumbles of it damaging ireland you actually enjoyed any of it?

by LordDowlais Mon 23 Oct 2017, 8:56 am

eirebilly wrote:I highlighted the second part as that is what I think you are referring too. I probably worded it incorrectly for posters like you who seemingly can only focus on one point in a post to create something else and put words in others mouths.

Yes. thats 7&1/2 for you. Rolling Eyes

Wait till he makes something up that you have said, then to start calling you out on it, and even avoid any answers you give him. picard

by No 7&1/2 Mon 23 Oct 2017, 9:02 am

That has never happened ld.and you can never answer the questions hence why you hide behind a block yet still feel the need to comment about me. Either debate or just get called out for your nonsense.

by **RiscaGame** Mon 23 Oct 2017, 10:55 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:That has never happened ld.and you can never answer the questions hence why you hide behind a block yet still feel the need to comment about me. Either debate or just get called out for your nonsense.

Personally, I'd complain about him rather than this.

by Gooseberry Mon 23 Oct 2017, 12:50 pm

You cant argue with his decision or his honesty ...but he has been a prime architecht himself over the years of dishing out similar and trying to manipualte the press and fans to be negative toward other coaches and teams.
I guess his fragile ego is really hurt by it being the new zealnders hes always wanted to impress turning on him.

by The Great Aukster Mon 23 Oct 2017, 6:20 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's hard to tell with you. You complain about the concept in the age of professionalism but it's probably the biggest example of it with huge profits etc. I was just wondering if after the grumbles of it damaging ireland you actually enjoyed any of it?

What rugby fan couldn't enjoy SOB's try - so yes I enjoyed some of the rugby. My contention isn't with the game of rugby but rather the Lions tours in their current form and the damage caused which is not restricted to Ireland BTW but all four nations (yes, including Scotland).

Regarding your assertion that the Lions is a great example of professionalism - really? A professional follows an occupation as a means of livelihood (or for gain). The players gain financially from the tours, but £80k (once in four years) is relatively small beer compared to some of the sums being bandied about for the top professional contracts (their real livelihoods). Considering the length and intensity of a Lions' tour, is it really professional of the players to put their careers on the line for something that benefits an opponent's Union and detracts from their own? The professional conclusion would be that players should support the team that pays them to be a full time professional rather than grab some mercenary money playing the lion in a travelling circus. The concept of a touring team's fans buying shirts and tickets for someone else's benefit is all sweetly Corinthian but for those pulling the strings professionalism shouldn't be confused with profiteering. There have been ticket touts and barrow boys living off the game long before the players got paid and the Lions maintain that tradition albeit in a more institutionalised way.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 23 Oct 2017, 6:49 pm

Its been good for England. Our players gt more exposure in Argentina. Some of our top players get to play for he lions. Following though the thought that players should follow who pays them most would decimate the international game pretty quickly.

Good to know you enjoyed supporting he lions. I'm sure you'll back them again in 4 years. And the 4 after that etc

by The Great Aukster Tue 24 Oct 2017, 3:08 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Good to know you enjoyed supporting he lions. I'm sure you'll back them again in 4 years. And the 4 after that etc

I enjoyed some of the All Black rugby too so that must make me a supporter of them also, and Australia the time before, and South Africa the time before that, and... I never knew I was supporting all these teams and all those people appearing on the box just by watching them. Better stop watching the News because sooner or later there is bound to be a story that no one would want to be a supporter of. Still supporting so many people must bring in the benefits from the DHSS?

I watched the Mayweather/McGregor fight recently out of curiosity (no longer pay per view), and I can categorically say that watching isn't supporting. It had enough hype to rekindle those impossible match-ups that kids do, wondering whether a Tyrannosaurus Rex would beat a Sherman tank. The Lions tours are a lot like that - will the 15 samurai blow ins from hither and thither beat the organised army of the overlords and give hope to the villagers back home?

Hang on the Lions won last time in Oz... no problem make the schedule even harder this time around in case the natural order is challenged too much. Dear oh dear, the series in NZ ended in a draw this time (vive la France), so expect 10 games in 4 weeks next time, plus a novelty training session where the squad is matched against thirty real Lions in Ellis Park Colosseum! It's not rugby but definitely worth watching (for free).

by No 7&1/2 Tue 24 Oct 2017, 3:14 pm

No of course not you just said at the start of all this you were a lions supporter.

by Guest Tue 24 Oct 2017, 3:18 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:No of course not you just said at the start of all this you were a lions supporter.

When it suits, I think.

by The Great Aukster Tue 24 Oct 2017, 4:12 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:No of course not you just said at the start of all this you were a lions supporter.

Eh?

by The Great Aukster Tue 24 Oct 2017, 4:14 pm

Griff wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:No of course not you just said at the start of all this you were a lions supporter.

When it suits, I think.

I have consistently and repeatedly pointed out the damage the Lions tours do to NH rugby, so where is the inconsistency you are hinting at?

by No 7&1/2 Tue 24 Oct 2017, 4:31 pm

You said you were a lions supporter right back at the start of this cycle. I assume that's not the case at all then. Fair enough there are plenty of club fans 2ho think of international sides the same as you view the lions.

by The Great Aukster Tue 24 Oct 2017, 5:51 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:You said you were a lions supporter right back at the start of this cycle. I assume that's not the case at all then. Fair enough there are plenty of club fans 2ho think of international sides the same as you view the lions.

There is a very useful 'quote' button available if you want to refer to a previous post - it's what I've used here.

by No 7&1/2 Tue 24 Oct 2017, 6:08 pm

Not on the mobile version there isn't. They need to sort that.

by The Great Aukster Tue 24 Oct 2017, 9:30 pm

You can cut and paste in the android version by holding your finger to create bookends.

by No 7&1/2 Tue 24 Oct 2017, 10:06 pm

And no way to search your posts. If you've changed your mind now about supporting the lions just say so.

by mikey_dragon Tue 24 Oct 2017, 10:31 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not on the mobile version there isn't. They need to sort that.

Then switch to classic version. Mobile version is horrific.

by The Great Aukster Wed 25 Oct 2017, 1:21 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:And no way to search your posts. If you've changed your mind now about supporting the lions just say so.

If you can't be bothered to back up your statements that's fine.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 25 Oct 2017, 2:00 pm

It was your statement. If you say you're not a fan and never have been ill accept that as I can't be bothered to trawl the threads.

by **Galted** Wed 25 Oct 2017, 2:04 pm

When will it finally be revealed whether Aukster is a lions fan or not? It's pretty gripping stuff, I must've changed my mind at least half a dozen times.

by The Great Aukster Wed 25 Oct 2017, 10:32 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:It was your statement. If you say you're not a fan and never have been ill accept that as I can't be bothered to trawl the threads.

What was my statement? The fact that you can't be bothered to quote it implies that you don't want a response.

If on the other hand you want to discuss the damage that the Lions tours do to NH rugby. I will continue to respond with the same consistency and logic that for some reason you seem reluctant to debate.

by The Great Aukster Wed 25 Oct 2017, 10:55 pm

Galted wrote:When will it finally be revealed whether Aukster is a lions fan or not? It's pretty gripping stuff, I must've changed my mind at least half a dozen times.

It's good to change one's mind - shows the power of reasoned argument.

I'd hate to be a plot spoiler, but if you are interested you can see where I have listed the reasons why the Lions tours are a bad idea for NH rugby on numerous threads - that should be a significant hint.
If you really want to know (to avoid a sleepless night) - see below Wink

I am not a Lion's fanatic.

by **Galted** Thu 26 Oct 2017, 8:23 am

The Great Aukster wrote:
Galted wrote:When will it finally be revealed whether Aukster is a lions fan or not? It's pretty gripping stuff, I must've changed my mind at least half a dozen times.

It's good to change one's mind - shows the power of reasoned argument.

I'd hate to be a plot spoiler, but if you are interested you can see where I have listed the reasons why the Lions tours are a bad idea for NH rugby on numerous threads - that should be a significant hint.
If you really want to know (to avoid a sleepless night) - see below

I am not a Lion's fanatic.

Brilliant ending!!! clap

Even better than the Usual Suspects.

Cheers, Aukster, that was well worth the wait, though I'm not sure I can ever trust 7.5 again.

by No 7&1/2 Thu 26 Oct 2017, 8:56 am

You were a fool to ever trust me.

by **Galted** Thu 26 Oct 2017, 9:17 am

Sounds like it should be in song form.

by The Great Aukster Thu 26 Oct 2017, 1:19 pm

... Fool if you think it's over. Whistle

by aucklandlaurie Thu 26 Oct 2017, 2:33 pm

...Only a Fool would say that.....By Steely Dan.

by **Rugby Fan** Thu 26 Oct 2017, 3:34 pm

Fool on the (Richard) hill

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