Warren Gatland 'done' with the British and Irish Lions

by **RDW** Tue 17 Oct 2017, 9:26 am

He's not holding back

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41645590 wrote:Warren Gatland says he "won't subject himself" to taking charge of the British and Irish Lions in 2021.

The Wales coach led the Lions to victory in Australia in 2013, and to a draw in New Zealand this summer.

But the 54-year-old says he will not take charge for the next tour to South Africa, citing the abuse he suffered and the difficulty of putting a winning team together in such a short time.

The New Zealander said: "I'm done. Let someone else reinvent the wheel."

Gatland revealed he had been "hurt" by criticism from within the camp, notably from Ireland flanker Sean O'Brien.

While the Lions' six-week, 10-match tour of New Zealand ended with a creditable drawn series - the Lions have only won once there in 100 years - a feature of the series was the level of abuse directed towards Gatland.

That included the New Zealand Herald newspaper featuring a cartoon of him as a red-nosed clown.

Speaking on Monday, Gatland said: "I hated the tour. I did. I just hated the press and the negativity in New Zealand.

"When I look back on it now, there were a lot of things that were satisfying and what an achievement it was, but it was tough work. It was hard."

Gatland had suggested he would be prepared to take charge for a third time in 2021, but when asked on Monday, he said: "I wouldn't subject myself to that.

"What I've learned from my Lions experiences is how difficult it is to put some continuity together in terms of people and staff, and the lack of preparation time. Let someone else do it."

However, Gatland said there was "something magical about the Lions" and hopes the game's senior figures will help to preserve that magic - primarily by giving coaches more time to prepare a squad.

"A minimum is having a week in the UK before you go, and then trying to arrive there a minimum of five days before the first game," he said. "That wouldn't be ideal, but it would be adequate.

"That is all we are asking for - adequate preparation - to give yourself the best chance of doing well."

by LordDowlais Tue 17 Oct 2017, 9:58 am

I don't blame him, if he was subjected to half the crap we have had to put up with on this forum alone I feel for him.

Certain ex players, and current players from Ireland have tainted this tour and the last tour with their belly aching as have certain Scottish factors for grizzling over the representation.

The last two tours have been doomed to failure even before a ball was kicked, because of childish disgruntled fans and ex players, and let's not forget that he has not lost either series he has taken, yet he still gets abuse.

Thank you Warren, for putting the ethos back into the Lions, and delivering us two memorable tours and not losing. I hope who ever follows in your footsteps with the Lions are not subjected to as much abuse as you have been.

by Taylorman Tue 17 Oct 2017, 9:59 am

Overall, think youve done pretty well up there Gats. To keep pushing after that first test was a top effort. Imagine getting wins for Wales over Oz and NZ before signing off. Hang on there, then come back and support your boy!

by yappysnap Tue 17 Oct 2017, 10:05 am

Over all he should be very happy with his Lions tenure, yes the Oz tour had some odd selections, and in these times of social media, every one is an expert suddenly. But personally I thought the NZ tour was well organised and selected, only real criticism is his continued selection of Howley in the coaching team, but then a lot of others turned him/the Lions down.

by TightHEAD Tue 17 Oct 2017, 12:35 pm

I do not believe he would have been asked anyway.

by Pot Hale Wed 18 Oct 2017, 12:29 am

The constant undermining of him by Welsh fans and ex-players has left him unappreciated. Smart move to turn down the next tour when he knows it won’t be him anyway.

A win against a tired end of a long season NZ in an exhibition match in November should cap off a fine year for him.

When he brings Wales to World Cup glory in 2019 after back to back Grand Slams, the fans will probably moan about why he didn’t achieve it eight years earlier.

by mikey_dragon Wed 18 Oct 2017, 12:56 am

Pot Hale wrote:The constant undermining of him by plastic English fans, token Scots, the Irish, BOD and Keith Wood has left him unappreciated. Smart move to turn down the next tour when he knows it won’t be him anyway.

A win against a tired end of a long season NZ in an exhibition match in November should cap off a fine year for him.

When he brings Wales to World Cup glory in 2019 after back to back Grand Slams, the fans will probably moan about why he didn’t achieve it eight years earlier.

Seeing as you were being another flat-earther I fixed that for you.

by Pot Hale Wed 18 Oct 2017, 3:31 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:The constant undermining of him by [~~b]plastic English fans, token Scots, the Irish, BOD and Keith Wood[/b]~~ Welsh fans and ex-players has left him unappreciated. Smart move to turn down the next tour when he knows it won’t be him anyway.

A win against a tired end of a long season NZ in an exhibition match in November should cap off a fine year for him.

When he brings Wales to World Cup glory in 2019 after back to back Grand Slams, the fans will probably moan about why he didn’t achieve it eight years earlier.

Seeing as you were being another flat-earther I fixed that for you.

Please don’t do that. It’s a bad practice. Thanks.

by Pot Hale Wed 18 Oct 2017, 3:33 am

Gatland on Talk Sport Radio in NZ:

We were a bit heavy-legged as a result of that,” Gatland told Radio Sport in NZ Radio.

“I was more disappointed in myself and I mentioned that after the second test.

“As a coach I pride myself on preparing teams so reflecting back that may have been the case so I understand the comments that Sean made, particularly on the preparation for the first test.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/97989607/warren-gatland-concedes-that-sean-obrien-had-a-point-in-criticism-of-lions-coaches

by Gwlad Thu 19 Oct 2017, 4:48 pm

Reading Gats reasoning behind quitting the Lions isn't it rather despicable that his own countrymen treated him with such disrispict in a country that whines constantly about Rispict.

by marty2086 Thu 19 Oct 2017, 5:04 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I don't blame him, if he was subjected to half the crap we have had to put up with on this forum alone I feel for him.

Certain ex players, and current players from Ireland have tainted this tour and the last tour with their belly aching as have certain Scottish factors for grizzling over the representation.

The last two tours have been doomed to failure even before a ball was kicked, because of childish disgruntled fans and ex players, and let's not forget that he has not lost either series he has taken, yet he still gets abuse.

Thank you Warren, for putting the ethos back into the Lions, and delivering us two memorable tours and not losing. I hope who ever follows in your footsteps with the Lions are not subjected to as much abuse as you have been.

Classy and intelligent as ever Rolling Eyes

by LordDowlais Thu 19 Oct 2017, 5:34 pm

What is wrong with it ?

Nothing I have put in there is untrue.

where as, your response is very typical of you.

by No 7&1/2 Thu 19 Oct 2017, 5:37 pm

The ethos thing is untrue.

by beshocked Thu 19 Oct 2017, 5:54 pm

I do have to say Gatland brought it on himself by picking AWJ and the Geography Six.

Also picking hardly any Scotsmen.

It's meant to be about the 4 nations - not 3 and turning the tour into blooding Welshmen.

by LordDowlais Thu 19 Oct 2017, 6:07 pm

beshocked wrote:I do have to say Gatland brought it on himself by picking AWJ and the Geography Six.

Also picking hardly any Scotsmen.

It's meant to be about the 4 nations - not 3 and turning the tour into blooding Welshmen.

AWJ justified his selection with the performances he put in. It is getting a little tiresome with all the criticism he gets on here.

If the Scotsmen were not injured, or better than their counterparts then they would have been picked, I did not know it was all about quotas and not picking the best players available. The geography six is fair enough, but they hardly played, and were in New Zealand anyway. If anything, us Welsh had the most to moan about with that, as it left our national side seriously depleted for the game in Apia.

by No 7&1/2 Thu 19 Oct 2017, 6:36 pm

He really didn't. Him and Kruis were not good. The fact you seem to think jonny grey isn't better is laughable.

by Guest Thu 19 Oct 2017, 8:32 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:He's not holding back

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41645590 wrote:Warren Gatland says he "won't subject himself" to taking charge of the British and Irish Lions in 2021.

Speaking on Monday, Gatland said: "I hated the tour. I did. I just hated the press and the negativity in New Zealand.

What a sook

Cry

Guess he didn’t like it when a ‘couple’ of people in NZ media gave him a serve back after he’d labelled ‘all’ of NZ media arrogant. Poor Gatland playing the victim after he’s said derogatory things about NZ and our media over the years. He played with fire, got burnt and bridges are burnt to.

Doubt the red carpet will be rolled out for him by NZR when he returns. Turning down a Highlanders coaching role when they needed a coach was a slap in the face. NZ rugby doesn’t need Gatland so he can prove himself here if he has the drive. Or maybe look into starting a house painting business in Waihi.

by Guest Thu 19 Oct 2017, 8:54 pm

Actually, let him coach the Blues to see how serious he is about NZ

by TJ Thu 19 Oct 2017, 9:48 pm

Good. He has ( along with Woodward) destroyed the lions ethos

The lions no longer represent the british isles thanks to him.

by marty2086 Thu 19 Oct 2017, 10:21 pm

LordDowlais wrote:What is wrong with it ?

Nothing I have put in there is untrue.

where as, your response is very typical of you.

Typical?

Firstly you blamed the Irish when the first player to publicly criticise Gatland was Joe Marler and even before that was James Haskell

The only other player to do so publicly was SOB who gave an honest assessment, positive and negative and apparently he was saying the same thing privately as well.

In 2013 the Lions just about beat a poor Australian team and should have beaten the ABs 3-0 as I said before the tour

If Gatland can't handle constructive criticism then he's in the wrong job but there has been plenty said privately by players on tour that hasn't made it into the public and some of it from Welsh players who can't exactly go public without hurting their own careers.

The fact you think AWJ was worth his place really says a lot about your opinion but Gatland exceeding some peoples expectations doesn't mean he can't and shouldn't be criticised

by Taylorman Thu 19 Oct 2017, 10:48 pm

ebop wrote:Actually, let him coach the Blues to see how serious he is about NZ

by Gwlad Thu 19 Oct 2017, 10:51 pm

Reactions of NZ posters on here proof of the absolute BS Gats has to put up with. Rolling Eyes

by Guest Thu 19 Oct 2017, 11:20 pm

Taylorman wrote:
ebop wrote:Actually, let him coach the Blues to see how serious he is about NZ

You’d welcome him with open arms wouldn’t you Tman? He’s a pretty good coach. On reflection, a better fit might be the recently relegated Waikato provincial team. See what he’s got.

by Gwlad Fri 20 Oct 2017, 4:03 am

What sad people who turn on their own. Never seen the like of it in rugby but no surprises here.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 20 Oct 2017, 6:32 am

So you just back Welsh players coaches etc on here gwlad no matter what and never give a true reflection of your thoughts and analysis?

by Taylorman Fri 20 Oct 2017, 7:06 am

Gwlad wrote:What sad people who turn on their own. Never seen the like of it in rugby but no surprises here.

Didnt know BOD and SOB were kiwis?

...interesting he wont do another Lions tour because of this experience. Well, pretty sure he knows a next Lions tour wont involve NZ fans or media, but they will definitely include NH players so....putting two and two together...

Perhaps when a Welshman is the AB coach in Wales you might get a taste of what its like but...I wouldnt count on seeing that too soon.

Anyway, would you like us to send another over when youre finished with this one Gwlad? We seem to be your favourite shopping mall.

by Guest Fri 20 Oct 2017, 7:46 am

Gwlad wrote:What sad people who turn on their own. Never seen the like of it in rugby but no surprises here.

Unmmm, Gatland is on record saying he’s embarrassed to be a kiwi and thinks we’re all arrogant. So gwlad, who has turned on their own?

by LordDowlais Fri 20 Oct 2017, 8:09 am

TJ wrote:Good. He has ( along with Woodward) destroyed the lions ethos

The lions no longer represent the british isles thanks to him.

Please explain how he has destroyed the Lions ethos. Unless you think the ethos is losing the tours. Rolling Eyes

Not many sides will go to New Zealand and come back with a win or a draw.

He has had two tours now, and not lost any, so how he has destroyed the ethos is just people being silly.

by LordDowlais Fri 20 Oct 2017, 8:11 am

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:What is wrong with it ?

Nothing I have put in there is untrue.

where as, your response is very typical of you.

Typical?

Firstly you blamed the Irish when the first player to publicly criticise Gatland was Joe Marler and even before that was James Haskell

The only other player to do so publicly was SOB who gave an honest assessment, positive and negative and apparently he was saying the same thing privately as well.

In 2013 the Lions just about beat a poor Australian team and should have beaten the ABs 3-0 as I said before the tour

If Gatland can't handle constructive criticism then he's in the wrong job but there has been plenty said privately by players on tour that hasn't made it into the public and some of it from Welsh players who can't exactly go public without hurting their own careers.

The fact you think AWJ was worth his place really says a lot about your opinion but Gatland exceeding some peoples expectations doesn't mean he can't and shouldn't be criticised

But as I have said, and what you are avoiding as per usual, is nothing I have said is wrong. So just suck it up and stop being all marty about it.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 20 Oct 2017, 8:16 am

The ethos is bringing 4 separate teams together binding them to take on a sh team. Can't say woodward or gatland has excelled.

by Guest Fri 20 Oct 2017, 8:34 am

Chalk and cheese

Woodward = F
Gatland = -A

by MichaelT Fri 20 Oct 2017, 8:42 am

Never understood how Australia were considered poor in 2013 when the only team to beat them in the Autumn that year was England. They humped Ireland fairly easily in Nov 2013 for example, beat Scotland and Wales in consecutive weekends too.

And again for 2005 Lions, Woodward was to blame but no-one says how New Zealand stuck 40 points on Ireland, 40 points on Wales, beat England and beat Scotland in November 2005. Think New Zealand were far and away too good for up here at the time nevermind who coached and played for the Lions that year.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 20 Oct 2017, 8:51 am

On ethos ebop, what do you feel that Gatland did really well?

by LordDowlais Fri 20 Oct 2017, 8:52 am

I am fed up of hearing about the representation from Scotland as well. Gregor Townsend was asked, he declined, all the decent Scottish players were injured, and the one's that were left were no better than their counterparts.

Is the Lions about taking the best ? Or is it about quotas ?

by beshocked Fri 20 Oct 2017, 8:53 am

LordDowlais wrote:
beshocked wrote:I do have to say Gatland brought it on himself by picking AWJ and the Geography Six.

Also picking hardly any Scotsmen.

It's meant to be about the 4 nations - not 3 and turning the tour into blooding Welshmen.

AWJ justified his selection with the performances he put in. It is getting a little tiresome with all the criticism he gets on here.

If the Scotsmen were not injured, or better than their counterparts then they would have been picked, I did not know it was all about quotas and not picking the best players available. The geography six is fair enough, but they hardly played, and were in New Zealand anyway. If anything, us Welsh had the most to moan about with that, as it left our national side seriously depleted for the game in Apia.

Yes but the geography six should have never been picked, Gatland overworked the original squad by not using the cover.

As for Scotland they were higher ranked than Wales, performed better in the 6 nations and were given scraps....

At least when Woodward was in charge Scotland were weak, wooden spoon in 2004, and 5th in 2005 6 nations.

In contrast in 2017 Scotland had their best 6 nations in years with 3 wins, 2 losses.

Wales don't have the most to complain about - you shoehorned AWJ into the squad when with a superior 2nd row partnership we might have won the series.

by Scottrf Fri 20 Oct 2017, 8:54 am

"Gregor, wanna hold the kit bag?"
"F**k off!"
"See, I tried to involve the Scots!"

by No 7&1/2 Fri 20 Oct 2017, 8:54 am

The lions is about bringing 4 separate teams together. If it were about taking the best there would have been different squads this time and last.

by Guest Fri 20 Oct 2017, 8:55 am

7.5, Lions players from Woodward’s reign are too scared to speak up for fear of flash backs and mental scarring

by No 7&1/2 Fri 20 Oct 2017, 9:01 am

But what did gatland do well with ethos?

by Guest Fri 20 Oct 2017, 9:03 am

Gatland drew a series. Woodward came in all blustery and ‘his’ team got smashed. And then he spun a tale with his PR guy. You’re going on about ‘ethos’. But proof is in the pudding.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 20 Oct 2017, 9:18 am

The proof of the pudding is in the tasting. I responded to a statement about ethos saying woodward and gatland were alike in ignoring it while you said that woodward was an f and gatland an a minus. I thought that was directed at me and not an entirely separate point on results in 3 tests.

by LordDowlais Fri 20 Oct 2017, 9:19 am

beshocked wrote:Yes but the geography six should have never been picked, Gatland overworked the original squad by not using the cover.

I agree. But these players were hardly used anyway, and it hampered Wales more than anything else.

beshocked wrote:As for Scotland they were higher ranked than Wales, performed better in the 6 nations and were given scraps....

You see this is what I take issue with. Yes Scotland were ranked higher, and had a better 6N, but one swallow does not make a summer.

Wales were without their first team coach for two years, I know people on here do not rate Gatland, but he is streets ahead of Howley or McBride.

What did Scotland do prior to the Lions tour ? They finished 4th in the 6N, and that is judged as a success? I would not be happy with Wales finishing 4th. Wales had their worst 6N in a decade, without their head coach guiding them, now all of a sudden the Scottish players are all better ? Come on.

Most of the decent Scottish players were injured.

beshocked wrote:Wales don't have the most to complain about - you shoehorned AWJ into the squad when with a superior 2nd row partnership we might have won the series.

So we did not win the tour because of AWJ ? OMG. picard

It might surprise you, but myself and many others reckon Owen Farrell was the weak link in the tour to New Zealand. He was being picked when there were superior players to him. Not only was he not good enough for his specialised position, but he was shoe horned in to another just to accommodate him.

by beshocked Fri 20 Oct 2017, 9:21 am

Gatland had access to many players who weren't past their prime.

Too many over the hill England players in Woodward's squad.

Also as I said Scotland in 2005 were much weaker than they are now.

Carter also probably put in the best performance of his career vs Lions in 2nd test. At least in my opinion.

Bear in mind that going into the 2017 Lions tour, Gatland could pick from the 2nd,4th,5th and 7th in the world.

by marty2086 Fri 20 Oct 2017, 9:22 am

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:What is wrong with it ?

Nothing I have put in there is untrue.

where as, your response is very typical of you.

Typical?

Firstly you blamed the Irish when the first player to publicly criticise Gatland was Joe Marler and even before that was James Haskell

The only other player to do so publicly was SOB who gave an honest assessment, positive and negative and apparently he was saying the same thing privately as well.

In 2013 the Lions just about beat a poor Australian team and should have beaten the ABs 3-0 as I said before the tour

If Gatland can't handle constructive criticism then he's in the wrong job but there has been plenty said privately by players on tour that hasn't made it into the public and some of it from Welsh players who can't exactly go public without hurting their own careers.

The fact you think AWJ was worth his place really says a lot about your opinion but Gatland exceeding some peoples expectations doesn't mean he can't and shouldn't be criticised

But as I have said, and what you are avoiding as per usual, is nothing I have said is wrong. So just suck it up and stop being all marty about it.

You mean other than your xenophobic bs?

Your omissions and half truths are the problem

by LordDowlais Fri 20 Oct 2017, 9:24 am

ebop wrote:Gatland drew a series. Woodward came in all blustery and ‘his’ team got smashed. And then he spun a tale with his PR guy. You’re going on about ‘ethos’. But proof is in the pudding.

I can only guess you are replying to 7&1/2. I do not see his posts. Good luck with that one. Rolling Eyes

But for me the difference between Gatland and Woodward is plain as day.

1. Gatland did not take Alistair Campbell
2. Gatland did not take about a billion players
3. Gatland did not talk the talk without walking the walk
4. Gatland did not turn the tour into a media circus
5. Gatland did not did not turn the Lions into a laughing stock
6. Gatland DID NOT LOSE ANY SERIES TOURS

by LordDowlais Fri 20 Oct 2017, 9:25 am

marty2086 wrote:You mean other than your xenophobic bs?

Your omissions and half truths are the problem

Good old marty, resorting to insults when backed into a corner.

I am still waiting for you to tell me what I said was wrong.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 20 Oct 2017, 9:28 am

Best fly half on tour bur a great and improving inside centre. Yes playing a lock who is performing well below others on tour will impact a teams chances.

by Scottrf Fri 20 Oct 2017, 9:29 am

LordDowlais wrote:
ebop wrote:Gatland drew a series. Woodward came in all blustery and ‘his’ team got smashed. And then he spun a tale with his PR guy. You’re going on about ‘ethos’. But proof is in the pudding.

I can only guess you are replying to 7&1/2. I do not see his posts. Good luck with that one.

But for me the difference between Gatland and Woodward is plain as day.

1. Gatland did not take Alistair Campbell
2. Gatland did not take about a billion players
3. Gatland did not talk the talk without walking the walk
4. Gatland did not turn the tour into a media circus
5. Gatland did not did not turn the Lions into a laughing stock
6. Gatland DID NOT LOSE ANY SERIES TOURS

If Woodward took a billion players Gatland took 999,999,997

As for point 4, he dressed as a clown. The definition of a circus...

by LordDowlais Fri 20 Oct 2017, 9:30 am

beshocked wrote:Gatland had access to many players who weren't past their prime.

Too many over the hill England players in Woodward's squad.

Also as I said Scotland in 2005 were much weaker than they are now.

Carter also probably put in the best performance of his career vs Lions in 2nd test. At least in my opinion.

Bear in mind that going into the 2017 Lions tour, Gatland could pick from the 2nd,4th,5th and 7th in the world.

Why are you always comparing Gatlands tours to 2005 ? Is it because they both did the New Zealand tour ? If anything, the New Zealand team now, is better than the 2005 one.

The reason, in my opinion why Carter had such an epic game on that second test, is because Woodwards tactics and stupid selections allowed him to be so good.

Also, if we are going on your remit for picking the Lions, then the 2005 squad should have all been Welsh. Rolling Eyes

by LordDowlais Fri 20 Oct 2017, 9:31 am

Scottrf wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
ebop wrote:Gatland drew a series. Woodward came in all blustery and ‘his’ team got smashed. And then he spun a tale with his PR guy. You’re going on about ‘ethos’. But proof is in the pudding.

I can only guess you are replying to 7&1/2. I do not see his posts. Good luck with that one.

But for me the difference between Gatland and Woodward is plain as day.

1. Gatland did not take Alistair Campbell
2. Gatland did not take about a billion players
3. Gatland did not talk the talk without walking the walk
4. Gatland did not turn the tour into a media circus
5. Gatland did not did not turn the Lions into a laughing stock
6. Gatland DID NOT LOSE ANY SERIES TOURS

If Woodward took a billion players Gatland took 999,999,997

As for point 4, he dressed as a clown. The definition of a circus...

Only because of the New Zealand media.

Nobody has ever since taken as many players on a Lions tour as Woodward did, not even close.

by Sponsored content