Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June

by **George Carlin** Sun 04 Jun 2017, 9:12 am

First topic message reminder :

Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June - Page 11 Auckla10

Blues v British & Irish Lions, 7 June - Page 11 Lions_10

Blues v British & Irish Lions
7 June 2017
KO: 19:35 NZST (8.35am BST)
Eden Park, Auckland

Live on Sky Sports, Sky Sports HD and SkyGo

Referee: Pascal Gaüzère (France)
Touch judges: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. FORM:

19 June 1993: Auckland 23 - 18 British & Irish Lions

18 May 1983: Auckland 13 - 12 British & Irish Lions

23 June 1977: Auckland 15 - 34 British & Irish Lions

B. TEAMS:

Blues
15 Michael Collins
14 Matt Duffie
13 George Moala
12 Sonny Bill Williams
11 Rieko Ioane
10 Stephen Perofeta
09 Augustine Pulu

08 Steven Luatua
07 Blake Gibson
06 Akira Ioane
05 Scott Scrafton
04 Gerard Cowley-Tuioti
03 Charlie Faumuina
02 James Parson
01 Ofa Tu'ungafasi

16 Hame Faiva
17 Alex Hodgman
18 Sione Mafileo
19 Patrick Tuipulotu
20 Kara Pryor
21 Sam Nock
22 Ihaia West
23 TJ Faiane/Melani Nanai

British & Irish Lions

Halfpenny; Nowell, Payne, Henshaw, Daly; Biggar, Webb; McGrath, Owens (captain), Cole, Itoje, Lawes, Haskell, Tipuric, Stander

Replacements: Best, Marler, Sinckler, Henderson, O'Mahony, Laidlaw, Sexton, L Williams

C. PREVIEW

by 2ndtimeround Wed 07 Jun 2017, 10:38 am

Same one dimensional gameplan from a Gatland team. This could easily become an embarrassing tour unless something is changed fast.

by TightHEAD Wed 07 Jun 2017, 10:38 am

Cyril wrote:Two tries in two games against the two weakest sides.

Take a bow, Howley.

But be honest, is anyone surprised?

by 123456789 Wed 07 Jun 2017, 10:38 am

Not sure what to make of that, a win on saturday is a must. There's no point at this stage, with these results, ruling people out. No one has yet played all that well for the Lions. With the 2013 squad in mind though one could say that Gatland may have doubts over Best and that may have compounded them. Halfpenny had a decent game, Itoje was good but seemed pedestrian by his own standards, the scrum was a positive, the backline was rank awful. I think we need to be looking at a Sexton-Farrell axis. The other important point is that with most of our wingers firing blanks currently, I think Halfpenny has two slots at a starting place either on the wing or at full-back.

by **LondonTiger** Wed 07 Jun 2017, 10:39 am

yappysnap wrote:Lots of players were sub par today.

But Tipuric, Lawes, Webb and Marler all played very well.

Need the backs to shine against Crusaders now.

I thought all four props went well, in set-piece, defence and attack.

by yappysnap Wed 07 Jun 2017, 10:39 am

eirebilly wrote:Well don't the Blues.

All went pair shaped when Payne went off, lost the mid field control.

Lawes and Tipuric were absolutely brilliant. I know that Gatland will select Warburton at 7 but Tipuric is in better form by some way.

Webb played very well and I think the Lions looked better when he and Biggar were on together. Sexton still looks very rusty for me.

Far too much kicking away of possession for me.

Agree with all of that.

Biggar and Payne were both big losses. And the replacements didn't help. In fact the whole bench except the props were a step down.

by Scottrf Wed 07 Jun 2017, 10:40 am

Farrell is an absolute must to start the tests. At least it sounds like the scrum was better today. Backs play you'd expect to take longest to get up to speed but NH handling in general is poor so we wont get close in that regard.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 07 Jun 2017, 10:40 am

What has best done?

by yappysnap Wed 07 Jun 2017, 10:41 am

LondonTiger wrote:
yappysnap wrote:Lots of players were sub par today.

But Tipuric, Lawes, Webb and Marler all played very well.

Need the backs to shine against Crusaders now.

I thought all four props went well, in set-piece, defence and attack.

True, it was really in the backs that we lost that game. Both the players and the tactics were off the mark.

by **owen10ozzy** Wed 07 Jun 2017, 10:43 am

Whats worrying is the interviews afterwards....both times players and coaches believing the performance is far better than it was!

For all of the control in the first half & territory to go with it...we only threatned twice. Their is a considerable reliance on the physical and set piece aspect of the game....two areas that become nullified when a team plays ball in hand more and kick minimally.

Think our game management on the field left a lot to be desired especially in the 2nd half and the off field management is seriously lacking. Wales have only gone sideways (thats being kind) in the last 5 years under Gatland and even before we got over to NZ many questioned whether he was tactically astute enough to get the boys playing the rugby required to challenge NZ.

Must echo the sentiments regards Tipuric who was brilliant..Laws had a decent game as did Itoje.

by **LondonTiger** Wed 07 Jun 2017, 10:44 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:What has best done?

We had an attacking 5m lineout last play of the game which missed the jumper. It was a combined error as timing of the lift was off, but hooker always carries the can sadly.

by Guest Wed 07 Jun 2017, 10:44 am

Scottrf wrote:
ebop wrote:
yappysnap wrote:
ebop wrote:Yappysnap

The Lions will pull away with the win with their mauls and scrums

Brilliant, that'll set us up well for the Tests...
Maybe mauls and scrums only get you so far?

Scared a minute ago that they would beat you, good to see the NZ arrogance back

Umm, ok

But to be fair, the win for the Lions was there for the taking

The maul was on

Lack of composure cost them

by Gooseberry Wed 07 Jun 2017, 10:45 am

For me the most depressing part is how despite all the pre tour talk and Gatlands outburst before this game they are getting forced back into stereotypical NH up the jumper rugby and allowing the NZ sides to run at them.
If the defence were solid it wouldnt be so bad but they ended up looking like warm butter.

When you compare this to the way England have gone about their business over the last couple of seasons, or how the likes of Ireland and Wales well full bloodied at them to stop them playing (also how Ireland went at New Zealand to get that win) and compare it to this shower its hard to beleive the gourp of players in theory is the cream of those sides. Scotlands revival too has been built on backing themselves to play and trying to go with a tempo. Why is it that the Lions just dont seem to have the confidence or ability to get the best out of their attacking players? Daly and JJ barely saw the ball between them in the last two games respectively. When Payne did get some early in the game he showed what can happen.

The only glmimmer is that theres still plenty of scope to mould an effective side. Get the better attacking players in and remove the stodge. I think we'd all rathe rsee them die a glorious death trying to take the All Blacks on with the ball out wide as well dominating them physicaly in the scrum.
With guys like Sinckler coming on to add more threat as the game breaks down theres still potential for a very differnet type of game in the tests to this shambles. Tipuric and Warburton together could maybe not only slow the all blacks down a bit but also force them out of their comfort zone and away form the game they want to play. Whilst weve seen what a fast offload can do maybe pushing them to keep the ball alive too much could force mistakes and give the lions ball in broken play.

Im dreaming and rambling of course but yay Lions, pretty much got this series sewn up Rolling Eyes

by Gooseberry Wed 07 Jun 2017, 10:46 am

LondonTiger wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:What has best done?

We had an attacking 5m lineout last play of the game which missed the jumper. It was a combined error as timing of the lift was off, but hooker always carries the can sadly.

Maybe for that, but not the previous 80 minutes thatr left them needing that score.

by 123456789 Wed 07 Jun 2017, 10:46 am

The backs didn't really have a structure or a tactic beyond running laterally across the pitch throwing slightly off passes. In other words, what the Lions backs just produced was what the parent who coached the backs of my u13 side years and years ago was asked to let someone else have a go for producing.

I don't think there's any point producing a premature postmortem though, the longer they play they better it should get and fingers crossed come the first test they'll be ready.

by eirebilly Wed 07 Jun 2017, 10:46 am

Luke simply cannot praise Tipuric can he. I have no idea why but I have never seen him actually give credit to Tipuric (might go back to when Tips flattened him in a 6N match a couple of years back).

SOB has to be looked at for 6 next game, neither Haskell or POM (POM very little time to impress) did well enough today to convince me that they are up to speed.

by robbo277 Wed 07 Jun 2017, 10:48 am

So the pack all went well (except Haskell? He seemed to get a bit of stick). Anyone really shine?

And the backs didn't. Webb lively, Payne organised, anything other good performances? Nowell made some errors, but sounds like some good things too? Anyone else worth talking about?

Crusaders game becomes huge. It was near enough a test side anyway, but if the players perform they can pretty much guarantee their shirts now.

by **LondonTiger** Wed 07 Jun 2017, 10:49 am

eirebilly wrote:Luke simply cannot praise Tipuric can he. I have no idea why but I have never seen him actually give credit to Tipuric (might go back to when Tips flattened him in a 6N match a couple of years back).

SOB has to be looked at for 6 next game, neither Haskell or POM (POM very little time to impress) did well enough today to convince me that they are up to speed.

Apparently SOB is carrying a knock that ruled him out of contention for today.

by **owen10ozzy** Wed 07 Jun 2017, 10:51 am

Gatland a fecking rambling mess; showing his mentality with regards to talking constantly about tightining up..how we were good on the lineout..scrum...

Makes no mention about the need to play more ball...get the backs working better...etc etc..

"Not much difference between the super rugby sides and NZ"

Hahaha...oh Warren you are in for a complete shock!!

by **George Carlin** Wed 07 Jun 2017, 10:51 am

Don't worry lads. The Scotland players will be back for the next game.

Run

(too soon?)

by Scottrf Wed 07 Jun 2017, 10:53 am

owen10ozzy wrote:Gatland a fecking rambling mess; showing his mentality with regards to talking constantly about tightining up..how we were good on the lineout..scrum...

Makes no mention about the need to play more ball...get the backs working better...etc etc..

"Not much difference between the super rugby sides and NZ"

Hahaha...oh Warren you are in for a complete shock!!

Perhaps he means not much difference in how close to them he can get. Chiefs 40-7 Wales remember.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed 07 Jun 2017, 10:54 am

owen10ozzy wrote:Gatland a fecking rambling mess; showing his mentality with regards to talking constantly about tightining up..how we were good on the lineout..scrum...

Makes no mention about the need to play more ball...get the backs working better...etc etc..

"Not much difference between the super rugby sides and NZ"

Hahaha...oh Warren you are in for a complete shock!!

The Blues haven't beaten any of the other NZ Super sides in over 12 months Warren

by tigertattie Wed 07 Jun 2017, 10:55 am

George Carlin wrote:Don't worry lads. The Scotland players will be back for the next game.

(too soon?)

Both of them?

by eirebilly Wed 07 Jun 2017, 10:59 am

10 - 12 and 13 are a real issue for the Lions.

Farrell can come in at 10 (well he has to really, best 10 on the tour) but 12 and 13 are a major concern.

Henshaw at 12 needs to be allowed to be more creative, this bosh 12 simply does not work. Payne was excellent while he was on but he is far too injury prone so maybe not worth the risk. JD2 needs to get a run out and see if he can replicate his form from the Pro-12.

A lot being made of the penalties conceded but they only conceded two more than the blues...

by TightHEAD Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:00 am

George Ford possibly had a set of keys to unpick Kiwi defenses.

Yes it would have been a risk to select him but at least he offered a slight glimmer of hope.

Farrell has be given the No10 shirt for Saturday.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:01 am

Could try Farrell Joseph in midfield. England have had some success over the past 18 months or so.

by robbo277 Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:01 am

O'Mahony and O'Brien are both due a start against the Crusaders, if Gatland is to play by his own rules. Do you go with the two of them and Warburton or Faletau? Warburton probably needs the minutes more, and you could go with Faletau on the bench?

Who do you go for at lock? Kruis is owed a start, and you'd think it would be Jones as he hasn't played today. Who has impressed for a bench spot?

Front row is picked, it will be Mako, George and Furlong. Sinckler's had two runs now and impressed, I'd want to rest him up to give him a start against the Highlanders or the Maori. Perhaps Marler, Best and Cole on the bench?

Looking to see how Farrell goes. Even if Te'o plays, it's an unfamiliar 9/10/12/13 with Murray and Davies in there as well. I'd want to see Webb and Biggar on the bench and have a little look at Webb and Farrell at 9/10 before bringing Biggar on later.

Back three is looking like North, Williams and Hogg. I'd want to have another look at Watson, who finished his try nicely, so he'd make the bench.

by Scottrf Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:01 am

eirebilly wrote:10 - 12 and 13 are a real issue for the Lions.

Farrell can come in at 10 (well he has to really, best 10 on the tour) but 12 and 13 are a major concern.

Henshaw at 12 needs to be allowed to be more creative, this bosh 12 simply does not work. Payne was excellent while he was on but he is far too injury prone so maybe not worth the risk. JD2 needs to get a run out and see if he can replicate his form from the Pro-12.

A lot being made of the penalties conceded but they only conceded two more than the blues...

I know you're against Te'o but he's the only centre to make an impact so far.

Farrell Te'o Davies probably favourite 10 12 13 at the moment.

by **LondonTiger** Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:02 am

So - who will line-up against Crusaders.

If every player is to get a start in first 3 games, then by my reckoning we have:

Mako, George, Furlong, Kruis, SOB, POM, Murray, Sexton, JD2 & North - am I missing anyone?

by robbo277 Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:02 am

TightHEAD wrote:George Ford possibly had a set of keys to unpick Kiwi defenses.

Yes it would have been a risk to select him but at least he offered a slight glimmer of hope.

Farrell has be given the No10 shirt for Saturday.

I was calling for Ford on tour all year. Even if you called him up in addition to the 3 selected, it at least gives you that 10/12 option.

by **LondonTiger** Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:04 am

Russell or Ford offer something different, but not there.

by TightHEAD Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:04 am

Added bonus of selecting Ford is that you know where the Kiwis will attack too.

Works for England.

by TightHEAD Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:04 am

LondonTiger wrote:Russell or Ford offer something different, but not there.

Where?

by Scottrf Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:05 am

TightHEAD wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Russell or Ford offer something different, but not there.

Where?

In New Zealand. Keep up.

by TightHEAD Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:05 am

LondonTiger wrote:So - who will line-up against Crusaders.

If every player is to get a start in first 3 games, then by my reckoning we have:

Mako, George, Furlong, Kruis, SOB, POM, Murray, Sexton, JD2 & North - am I missing anyone?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

by TightHEAD Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:06 am

Scottrf wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Russell or Ford offer something different, but not there.

Where?

In New Zealand. Keep up.

So you rather watch the brand of rugby we are currently serving up, hopeless kicks and no penetration.

That makes sense!

by **LondonTiger** Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:06 am

TightHEAD wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Russell or Ford offer something different, but not there.

Where?

There, there by the stairs.

Just trying to say that both could have offered something different/extra but as neither was selected they are unavailable. We cannot worry about guys not in NZ.

by eirebilly Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:06 am

Scottrf wrote:
eirebilly wrote:10 - 12 and 13 are a real issue for the Lions.

Farrell can come in at 10 (well he has to really, best 10 on the tour) but 12 and 13 are a major concern.

Henshaw at 12 needs to be allowed to be more creative, this bosh 12 simply does not work. Payne was excellent while he was on but he is far too injury prone so maybe not worth the risk. JD2 needs to get a run out and see if he can replicate his form from the Pro-12.

A lot being made of the penalties conceded but they only conceded two more than the blues...

I know you're against Te'o but he's the only centre to make an impact so far.

Farrell Te'o Davies probably favourite 10 12 13 at the moment.

Not against Te'o, he is a very effective runner and makes ground. I am against the Bosh 12 which he also is.

I am seriously hoping that Gatland does not go down the Sexton 10 Farrell 12 route. Farrell simply has to be 10 as Sexton really is not playing well.

by TightHEAD Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:07 am

Sextons rugby brain is still in Ireland.

by Scottrf Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:08 am

TightHEAD wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Russell or Ford offer something different, but not there.

Where?

In New Zealand. Keep up.

So you rather watch the brand of rugby we are currently serving up, hopeless kicks and no penetration.

That makes sense!

I didn't pick the squad. And I think the best way to win would be to have the core of a national side with a few additions.

by Cyril Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:10 am

LondonTiger wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Russell or Ford offer something different, but not there.

Where?

There, there by the stairs.

Fitting that most of the backs played like mice with clogs on.

by TightHEAD Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:11 am

Ford gets backlines moving.

I've seen nothing from the Lions to suggest we even have the slightest of hope of winning anymore games on tour.

I think we peaked on Saturday.

by Poorfour Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:11 am

My test XXIII at this point in the tour would be as follows - though a lot could still change and the centre combination is wide open (even Biggar / Farrell / JD2 could potentially work):

Marler - Owens - Cole
Kruis - Itoje
Tipuric - Faletau - Moriarty [1]
Webb - Farrell
Watson - Henshaw - Payne - Daly
Halfpenny

Bench:
McGrath - Best - Sinckler
Lawes - Stander
Murray - Biggar - Joseph

[1] Though Gatland will choose Warburton and... well, you know who I would have chosen.

by Mad for Chelsea Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:15 am

My real area of concern is the 10-12 axis. Neither Biggar and Sexton look at the races based on what we've seen so far (and end of season form wasn't great for them either), which leaves Farrell as the only viable option at 10 at this point. Henshaw was ordinary today, though Teo was quite good in the first game I suppose. I'm just not sure Farrell-Teo has enough to unlock the AB's defence. Maybe time to bit the bullet and call up Ford/Russell? Pair them with Farrell in midfield?

by Guest Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:17 am

Webb or Murray?

by beshocked Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:17 am

My test 23 as things stand.

Mako - George - Furlong

Kruis - Itoje

Stander - Faletau - Tipuric

Webb - Farrell

North - Henshaw - Joseph - Watson

Hogg

Mcrgath - Owens - Sinckler

Lawes - SOB

Murray - Biggar - Daly

by TightHEAD Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:18 am

Mad for Chelsea wrote:My real area of concern is the 10-12 axis. Neither Biggar and Sexton look at the races based on what we've seen so far (and end of season form wasn't great for them either), which leaves Farrell as the only viable option at 10 at this point. Henshaw was ordinary today, though Teo was quite good in the first game I suppose. I'm just not sure Farrell-Teo has enough to unlock the AB's defence. Maybe time to bit the bullet and call up Ford/Russell? Pair them with Farrell in midfield?

We have nothing to lose by doing that, only the remaining games if we do not.!

Its going to be a long tour. The lads might as well treat it as a Barbarians tour now, have a laugh and a drink or two and play heads up attacking rugby.

by eirebilly Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:18 am

ebop wrote:Webb or Murray?

Let Murray have a game first thumbsup

by **LondonTiger** Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:18 am

ebop wrote:Webb or Murray?

Until we see Murray play hard to say. I think Murray was initially penciled into the test team by the coaches, but then so was Sexton probably.

by Guest Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:24 am

eirebilly wrote:
ebop wrote:Webb or Murray?

Let Murray have a game first

He did in Chicago and was really good against NZ rugby thumbsup

by geoff999rugby Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:24 am

For me McGrath, Itoje, Lawes, Stander, Tipuric, Webb, Henshaw all did well today.

Don't get this criticism of Henshaw who was better than Teo who was playing against weaker opposition.
Webb was a step up from Laidlaw
On that performance I'd go with Stander at 6 and Falateau at 8

Some ruled themselves out notably Nowell but also Haskell, Biggar, Daly and Williams did nothing to warrant selection
Best and Marler only harmed their chances in their brief appearances

We have yet to see Furlong who is the best choice at 3, Kruis (for me AWJ has a lot to do to break the English stranglehold at lock), Murray (straight head to head with Webb) and North who we need to be on fire badly - currently I'd pick him and Watson

1 try with scrum and lineout dominance is a worry.

My monies on Crusaders on Saturday they are a vastly superior team to the Blues

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