Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread 16 - Good Luck, We're All Counting On You

[IanBru]

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Edinburgh & Glasgow Warriors

A Not So Brief History of Time-Wasting:

Guinness Pro12

Guinness Pro12 Website
Edinburgh Rugby (Pro12 Website)
Glasgow Warriors (Pro12 Website)
Guinness Pro12 2016/17 Overview (Ultimate Rugby)

Playlist of all of Edinburgh's Pro12 highlights here.
Playlist of all of Glasgow's Pro12 highlights here.

Europe

European Rugby Website

CHAMPIONS CUP
QUARTER FINAL
SARACENS v GLASGOW WARRIORS
Sun, Apr 2, 13:00, Allianz Park

CHALLENGE CUP
QUARTER FINAL
EDINBURGH v LA ROCHELLE
Fri, March 31, 19:00, Murrayfield Stadium


"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."

[funnyExiledScot]

I wonder where Allan is going? He'd make a fine addition to our touch rugby team.....

I can completely understand his decision, but it's a real shame for Edinburgh rugby. I have him down as our best 13 by a distance, and with Bennett crocked for next season, we have a problem position that absolutely cannot be filled by Christine if we have any hopes of progress next season.

I wonder if Duncan Taylor has had enough of being massively successful at Sarries, and fancies a pay cut and a big step down career wise??

You have a touch team? Do you need old and slow players to join in?

They've already got FES...

I think you'll find that the first 10 metres are in my head.....

I actually don't play touch rugby. I'd just end up flattening some twenty-something bird, and not in a good way.

[jimbopip]

It makes you wonder what's going on behind the scenes.

Allen is Edinburgh's best centre (possibly best back) and has hardly played lately, yet Chris Dean appears undroppable.

Surely Edinburgh should have played him more/given him a new contract?

Obvious. The prospect of another thrashing at the home of The Once And Future Champions proved too much for the boy. Can't really blame him, anyone with any professional pride and self-respect would walk away from the game if they were constantly told they weren't good enough to play for the Luvvies.

[Nematode]

Is that Scottish centre Hutchinson at Northampton?

[funnyExiledScot]

It makes you wonder what's going on behind the scenes.

Allen is Edinburgh's best centre (possibly best back) and has hardly played lately, yet Chris Dean appears undroppable.

Surely Edinburgh should have played him more/given him a new contract?

Obvious. The prospect of another thrashing at the home of The Once And Future Champions proved too much for the boy. Can't really blame him, anyone with any professional pride and self-respect would walk away from the game if they were constantly told they weren't good enough to play for the Luvvies.

Not as catchy as Soap Dodgers.

[jimbopip]

It makes you wonder what's going on behind the scenes.

Allen is Edinburgh's best centre (possibly best back) and has hardly played lately, yet Chris Dean appears undroppable.

Surely Edinburgh should have played him more/given him a new contract?

Obvious. The prospect of another thrashing at the home of The Once And Future Champions proved too much for the boy. Can't really blame him, anyone with any professional pride and self-respect would walk away from the game if they were constantly told they weren't good enough to play for the Luvvies.

Not as if we'll ever catchy as up with the Soap Dodgers.

I agree, sir.

[jimbopip]

A few more departures announced:

All the best to Peter Murchie, Junior Bulumakau, Fraser Lyle, Tjiuee Uanivi, Nemia Kenatale & Hagen Schulte who will leave the club

I really thought the first four would have made a bigger impact on the club. Peter Murchie made plenty of appearances but was in the unfortunate position of competing with a player who will be up there with Irvine and Hastings when he hangs up his boots. Junior and Sandy Lyle had plenty of chances and can't complain. Shooee was very unlucky to get injured when he did. The other two can probably walk up and down Byres Road without anyone except their mothers recognising them.

[RDW]

Looks like fullback is going to be a problem position for Glasgow too, and it is definitely a position lacking depth for the national team.

You can have Bryce back!

[CraigS1874]

Is that Scottish centre Hutchinson at Northampton?

No its not, the centre I was referring too is playing down the leagues but I wont say who. Hutchinson would be a good signing if possible

[RDW]

Robbie Ferguson was London Scottish player of the season - I think he's more of a 13 than a 12 but has been a standout player for them.

[IanBru]

It's a shame to lose those players. Murchie has been a real servant and was instrumental in providing a viable alternative to Hogg. It can't have been easy to be supplanted like that, but all respect to him for making the hard yards and even getting a few caps.

Junior had his chances and I'm curious whether the Scotland 7s setup might be a better fit for him. Same goes for Fraser Lyle - he's been a useful placeholder against weak opposition, but I've never been filled with confidence to see him on the teamsheet.

Chewie will be missed, mostly because it's still the funniest nickname (in my head at least) I've managed to come up with. Big Brian has had a far greater impact, and I can't help feeling Mr Uanivi has been dealt a poor card with injury.

Finally, Kenatale and Schulte simply haven't done anything of note. George Horne looks a real prospect, particularly if he can bulk up a bit, and young Hagen simply isn't solving any of our problems.

I guess we can put together a shopping list for next year:
1x Loosehead
1x Lock
1x Openside
1x Ballcarrying No8
1x Fly half
2x Utility centre/back
1x Fullback

Am I missing anything?

[Majestic83]

Is that Scottish centre Hutchinson at Northampton?

No its not, the centre I was referring too is playing down the leagues but I wont say who. Hutchinson would be a good signing if possible

Think Hutchinson has signed a 2 year deal at Saints.

There is the SQ 12 at London Irish, Jonny Williams.

[RDW]

Glasgow have signed Callum Gibbins remember - pretty much a straight replacement for Fuvaro.

Wilson, Fusaro, Matt Smith and young Fagerson are all squad players too

[Majestic83]

Robbie Fergusson would certainly be a good fit for Glasgow and cover either 13 or 15. Would also be a good signing for Edinburgh.

[IanBru]

Yeah, true on all counts RDW. Fagerson Jr has really impressed me in the last few weeks - a nice combination of pace, power and dog (or as Zinzan Brooke now calls it 'mongrel'...).

[RDW]

I think Fagerson is better suited as a 6 or 8 - he's bloody massive already and is still a kid. Ball carrying is certainly his greatest asset.

[jimbopip]

On the subject of back rows; from first match to this week Toonie has been remarkably consistent for a man who loves his Tombola, with Harley-Strauss - Wilson really being his go to combination. One wonders if that is what we'll see for Scotland now.

[nickj]

Apparently, Fruean has ambitions to play for Samoa in the 2018/19 World Sevens Series, which obvs clashes with Edinburgh's season. He also then aims to be selected for the 15-a-side team at the 2019 Rugby World Cup in Japan.
http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/robbie-fruean-contract-talks-break-down-as-bath-rugby-winger-looks-set-for-edinburgh-move/story-30312009-detail/story.html#WDV0e0B4mqXpBUKe.99

[RDW]

Here's something no one was expecting - Scotland 7s coach Calumn McRae has been appointed Edinburgh defence coach....

Hodge is staying on as attack coach

Of all the things a specialist 7s coach could move into (skills, fitness, attack etc) defence ain't one of them!

[jimbopip]

Here's something no one was expecting - Scotland 7s coach Calumn McRae has been appointed Edinburgh defence coach.... :headscratch:

Hodge is staying on as attack coach

Of all the things a specialist 7s coach could move into (skills, fitness, attack etc) defence ain't one of them!

Well he's got experience of working with players who are not quite good enough to get into the Glasgow side, so he should be familiar with the level the MFL are aiming for.

The only real surprise is that ANY of the current coaching staff are keeping their jobs.

[tigertattie]

Hodge. Skillz coach?

Thats like saying Prince Phillip. Diplomat

or Donald Trump. Feminism Activist

or Nicola Sturgeon. Competent First Minister

[MacKnocked-on]

Is that Scottish centre Hutchinson at Northampton?

No its not, the centre I was referring too is playing down the leagues but I wont say who. Hutchinson would be a good signing if possible

Think Hutchinson has signed a 2 year deal at Saints.

There is the SQ 12 at London Irish, Jonny Williams.

Hutchinson has signed a longer deal at Saints but would have been a useful signing for Edinburgh considering he played at 10 for Scotland U20s, he's had a fair amount of game time this year so may come in to the Scotland squad reckoning in the next season or two as a Horne type utility option. Mitch Eadie will also be playing for Saints next year so a fair bit of SQ interest for Townsend at his old club.

[MacKnocked-on]

It's all a matter of personal opinion obviously but one or two of the players being released by Glasgow are a bit unlucky, Junior hasn't had many chances but has scored a few tries in the games he has played, I think he had some potential personally and I would have thought he deserved some of the extended chances the likes of Hoyland, Dean and Bryce are getting.

[nickj]

Is this match on the telly vision at all?

[RDW]

BBC Scotland

[nickj]

Fantastic. I hoped it would be, but that didn't seem to be listed on the buildup articles yesterday. Cheers RDW

[RDW]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08qdxt4

It has definitely been a much lower key buildup not having it the weekend after the 1st leg - I don't think it was a good idea to change it.

And to include games between the Scottish teams and Italian teams and the 'more than just a rivalry' Super Saturdays is just laughable.

[IanBru]

And to include games between the Scottish teams and Italian teams and the 'more than just a rivalry' Super Saturdays is just laughable.

Wait, you're saying that from Galashiels to Tobermory, Ayr to Alloa, there aren't boys growing up with posters of Angelo Esposito on their bedroom walls, or going to sleep dreaming of scoring the winning drop goal at el Stadio Sergio Lanfranchi?

You're crazy mate.

[funnyExiledScot]

There's no question the old 1872 format was better. It had the added bonus of being played in winter, which favoured the team with tits for hands.

[RDW]

You mean Frodos for hands?

[funnyExiledScot]

When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.

[funnyExiledScot]

Following the appointment of Richard Cockerill as the club’s Head Coach, Edinburgh Rugby today confirmed that Calum MacRae will move from Scotland 7s to become the club’s new Defence Coach.

MacRae and Hodge

Current defence coach Peter Wilkins will leave the club at the end of the Guinness PRO12 season having joined from Queensland Reds in summer 2015.

Duncan Hodge will return to the role of Attack Coach he held both as an assistant Scotland coach and at Edinburgh Rugby before becoming Acting Head Coach at the capital club in September 2016.

MacRae moves back to the 15s game after successfully leading Scotland 7s to continued success on the HSBC Sevens World Series, which saw the team win an historic first World Rugby Sevens Series title in London in May 2016. MacRae played for the club between 2007 and 2009.

Current Scotland 7s strength and conditioning coach Nick Lumley will also join Edinburgh Rugby next season, with Head of S&C Ashley Jones leaving the club at the end of the Guinness PRO12 season.

In a new role at Edinburgh Rugby Matt Cornwell will become Head of Rugby Operations, joining from Leicester Tigers where he was previously team manager.

Scottish Rugby Chief Executive Mark Dodson said:


“I am committed to creating success at Edinburgh Rugby and the results, especially in the Guinness PRO12, this season have fallen well short of what we expect.

“We are acting quickly to create a different set-up and environment at the club following Richard Cockerill’s appointment. Duncan conducted himself incredibly well during a difficult season and his skills in developing Edinburgh’s attack will play a key role next season and by bringing in Calum we are investing in a young, talented coach with a growing reputation.”

Edinburgh Managing Director Jonny Petrie said: “We are working closely with Richard Cockerill on the coaching team for next season and it is important they have a strong idea of what it means to play for Edinburgh to complement Richard’s fresh direction.


“I’m looking forward to seeing the impact these new appointments have on our performances both in pre-season and into the new Guinness PRO12 and European Cup campaigns.

“I’d also like to thank Peter Wilkins for all his hard work and dedication over the past two years.”

[funnyExiledScot]

Phew - thank goodness we have Hodge on board to continue his fine work.

[tigertattie]

Following the appointment of Richard Cockerill as the club’s Head Coach, Edinburgh Rugby today confirmed that Calum MacRae will move from Scotland 7s to become the club’s new Defence Coach.

MacRae and Hodge

Current defence coach Peter Wilkins will leave the club at the end of the Guinness PRO12 season having joined from Queensland Reds in summer 2015.

Duncan Hodge will return to the role of Attack Coach he held both as an assistant Scotland coach and at Edinburgh Rugby before becoming Acting Head Coach at the capital club in September 2016.

MacRae moves back to the 15s game after successfully leading Scotland 7s to continued success on the HSBC Sevens World Series, which saw the team win an historic first World Rugby Sevens Series title in London in May 2016. MacRae played for the club between 2007 and 2009.

Current Scotland 7s strength and conditioning coach Nick Lumley will also join Edinburgh Rugby next season, with Head of S&C Ashley Jones leaving the club at the end of the Guinness PRO12 season.

In a new role at Edinburgh Rugby Matt Cornwell will become Head of Rugby Operations, joining from Leicester Tigers where he was previously team manager.

Scottish Rugby Chief Executive Mark Dodson said:


“I am committed to creating success at Edinburgh Rugby and the results, especially in the Guinness PRO12, this season have fallen well short of what we expect.

“We are acting quickly to create a different set-up and environment at the club following Richard Cockerill’s appointment. Duncan conducted himself incredibly well during a difficult season and his skills in developing Edinburgh’s attack will play a key role next season and by bringing in Calum we are investing in a young, talented coach with a growing reputation.”

Edinburgh Managing Director Jonny Petrie said: “We are working closely with Richard Cockerill on the coaching team for next season and it is important they have a strong idea of what it means to play for Edinburgh to complement Richard’s fresh direction.


“I’m looking forward to seeing the impact these new appointments have on our performances both in pre-season and into the new Guinness PRO12 and European Cup campaigns.

“I’d also like to thank Peter Wilkins for all his hard work and dedication over the past two years.”

what a load of Frodos

committed to Edinburgh's success? Yeah right! If you were you'd be punting Hodge off to a prem team or looking after the under 12s

[RDW]

Interestingly there is no mention of Stevie Scott.

Edinburgh's pack was very good when he first started - dominating many teams in the league - but the last season and a bit we've been very average up front.

[funnyExiledScot]

Interestingly there is no mention of Stevie Scott.

Edinburgh's pack was very good when he first started - dominating many teams in the league - but the last season and a bit we've been very average up front.

To be honest I think the decreased availability of Nel, Ford and Dickinson playing together has been a bit factor there. I'm not sure the best forwards coaches in the world will be able to turn Berghan, Cochrane and Dell into a fearsome front row.

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

The news about Hodge is so frustrating. After all their good work in getting great head coaches in for Edinburgh and Glasgow this is a real downer, because I'm not sure what metric you could possibly use to judge Hodge's time in any of his coaching roles as being successful. This was the perfect opportunity for changes to the coaching team, and they've - appropriately enough for Edinburgh - dropped the ball

Duncan conducted himself incredibly well during a difficult season and his skills in developing Edinburgh’s attack will play a key role next season and by bringing in Calum we are investing in a young, talented coach with a growing reputation.

Ah right, he conducted himself well. So he expressed his disappointment at each individual loss in a most eloquent and media friendly way. Excellent, new 35 year contract for that man. I look forward to witnessing these 'skills in developing Edinburgh’s attack', presumably he's been keeping them a closely guarded secret for some time now.

[funnyExiledScot]

The news about Hodge is so frustrating. After all their good work in getting great head coaches in for Edinburgh and Glasgow this is a real downer, because I'm not sure what metric you could possibly use to judge Hodge's time in any of his coaching roles as being successful. This was the perfect opportunity for changes to the coaching team, and they've - appropriately enough for Edinburgh - dropped the ball

Duncan conducted himself incredibly well during a difficult season and his skills in developing Edinburgh’s attack will play a key role next season and by bringing in Calum we are investing in a young, talented coach with a growing reputation.

Ah right, he conducted himself well. So he expressed his disappointment at each individual loss in a most eloquent and media friendly way. Excellent, new 35 year contract for that man. I look forward to witnessing these 'skills in developing Edinburgh’s attack', presumably he's been keeping them a closely guarded secret for some time now.

Agreed. We've had a complete lack of attacking shape under his tenure and his team selections, albeit from an admittedly limited pool of players, have at times been quite baffling. I suppose the plus side of this is that they haven't promoted him to permanent head coach!

[RDW]

Trying to play devil's advocate here, Hodge was attack coach during the Solomons era and Solomons was probably the most negative pro coach in recent history. He then took over as head coach part-way through the season and hasn't been able to change too much - especially given how far we had regressed under Solomons.

So you never know, he may be a good attack coach if given free reign to attack....

[RuggerRadge2611]

Trying to play devil's advocate here, Hodge was attack coach during the Solomons era and Solomons was probably the most negative pro coach in recent history.  He then took over as head coach part-way through the season and hasn't been able to change too much - especially given how far we had regressed under Solomons.

So you never know, he may be a good attack coach if given free reign to attack....

I kind of agree with this. Hodge had to take over under a very difficult set of circumstances. The systems were already in place from Soloman's tenure and it would have been a bold move to tear that book up and try something completely new mid season. His conservative approach makes sense if you look at it from his point of view.

It's certainly very easy to look on from the sidelines and post up on a forum what he should do when failure could mean losing your job/livelihood and income.

Furthermore no matter what systems he could or would have implemented they still had to get past Duncan Weir, who has been absolutely atrocious this year.

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

I don't buy it myself, if he wasn't able to exert any influence on the Edinburgh attack under Solomons then what kind of reflection is that on an attack coach? How many other jobs can you go 2 years in and still be looked upon kindly when you have nothing to show for 2 years of work?

I realise he's been put in a tough situation this season, and he himself says he didn't want to change too much mid-season, so I realise I'm coming across as pretty harsh on him, but ultimately professional sport is a results led business. We're now in the position of hoping that he's going to show us something now which we haven't had any evidence of from him previously, and for me that is too big a gamble to be making on someone who is already a couple of years into a job!

Obviously I hope he proves me wrong and I'd be very glad to admit I was talking guff when we win the Pro 12 next season....

[jimbopip]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/scotland/39815689

Well worth a watch.
Hopefully in five years time someone will be saying something similar about the Luvvies.

[RDW]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/scotland/39815689

Well worth a watch.
Hopefully in five years time someone will be saying something similar about the Luvvies.

Do you really mean that??

[jimbopip]

Actually, I do. It would be good for Scotland and ,indirectly, good for Glasgow. (Losing 16-23 players during the 6N's and AI's plays havoc with selection) Also, I don't know about you but I'm sick of switching on the HeedrumHodrum channel full of hope only to switch off in disgust after about 50 minutes.

[Manky-Flanker]

And to include games between the Scottish teams and Italian teams and the 'more than just a rivalry' Super Saturdays is just laughable.

Wait, you're saying that from Galashiels to Tobermory, Ayr to Alloa, there aren't boys growing up with posters of Angelo Esposito on their bedroom walls, or going to sleep dreaming of scoring the winning drop goal at el Stadio Sergio Lanfranchi?

You're crazy mate.

*cough* Tommy Allan*cough*

[RDW]

Greig Laidlaw called up to the Lions to replace Ben Youngs who has pulled out to support his brother Tom's wife who has terminal cancer.

[Welly]

Cockers is meant to be in Edinburgh today I think.
Toulon beat Brive to make it 4 wins in a row and a home Quarter final.


Really pleased for Cockers after the whole Tigers thing (still think it was a move both he and the club had to make really).


Excited to how he can develop things at Edinburgh hopefully SRU will give him time and support. I might even get an Edinburgh shirt.

[formerly known as Sam]

Cockers is meant to be in Edinburgh today I think.
Toulon beat Brive to make it 4 wins in a row and a home Quarter final.


Really pleased for Cockers after the whole Tigers thing (still think it was a move both he and the club had to make really).


Excited to how he can develop things at Edinburgh hopefully SRU will give him time and support. I might even get an Edinburgh shirt.

I think Cockers will give a stuctured hard edge to Edinburgh and they'll be better for it. The big problem at Toulon was apparently the lack of structure as for to long there was an expectation that this would be provided through the legends of the game they had accumulated. When those guys retired this fell away. Cockers seems to be shaping things well there, aided by him being fluent in the language and at ease with the culture.

If the Scottish Rugby Union don't back him then more fool them. He's taken on some Scottish Sevens coaches to breath fresh life into things and Cornwall coming in as team manager will set the tone off the pitch (he has done a similar admin/player relations job at Tigers previously).

[BigGee]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39830953

Tom English eulogy to the Toonie years at Glasgow.

We are going to miss him.

[RDW]

Edinburgh's outgoing defence coach Pete Wilkins had a year left on his contract apparently - no one can deny our defence has been crap in his tenure but it does scream of jobs for the boys that similarly under performing Hodge is kept on (no word on Stevie Scott) and a specialist 7s coach is brought in to replace him.

[123456789]

Toby Flood just left Toulouse, wouldn't bet against him lining up in an Edinburgh shirt next year and reuniting with Cockerill. I think it would be a good signing as well, an experienced player who has won trophies, captained sides and a good, if by no means great, international.

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