European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

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If John Paramor had been on the job with Rahm, I think he would have assessed a penalty.

deleted...double post

Normally I doubt you could get a fag paper between McFee and Paramour, but in this case I hope you are correct. Precision of rules is one of the main benefits of golf, and a key ingredient in players calling fouls on themselves. True, some rules are a bit daft - so change the rules - but this latest is the thin end of a very big wedge.
Talking to a former rules official, he made the point that the rules are administered by the tours. The officials employed by them for the particular events, and that is at the core of the other big rules infraction - pace of play. To date the only rule of golf totally (almost) ignored. It's an interesting perspective?

Interesting read ....

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/10/sports/golf/why-isnt-scotland-producing-more-great-golfers.html?action=click&contentCollection=sports&module=NextInCollection&region=Footer&pgtype=article&version=spotlight&rref=collection%2Fspotlight%2Fgolf-special-reports

Shotrock wrote:Interesting read ....

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/10/sports/golf/why-isnt-scotland-producing-more-great-golfers.html?action=click&contentCollection=sports&module=NextInCollection&region=Footer&pgtype=article&version=spotlight&rref=collection%2Fspotlight%2Fgolf-special-reports

Very interesting Shotrock and something I have thought long about myself. Although Sandy Lyle was the only Scottish major winner from my childhood we had plenty of very good players, regular tournament winners, Ryder cuppers and of course Monty. However it has all pretty much dried up since then with Stephen Gallagher our only Ryder cup player since Monty chucked it and let's be honest, he was picked for romantic reasons at best.

From what I can see I don't think conditions have changed much, in fact I would say it's probably easier to get into golf now than it was when I was a kid with green fees now being relatively cheaper than then and many clubs actively seeking new members as opposed to the many closed shops of the 80s and 90s.

I still think that the gradual removal of golf from council telly has played a part although as we share this media with England you would expect it to affect them as well. However with a population ten times our size you may expect ten times more pro-golfers.

I think a good comparison is Ireland (in golfing terms). Similar population, similar conditions, similar participants, similar facillities but they have been churning out top class players constantly for a good while now.

From what I see of the SGU kids coming through and what many of the people I know who work for the SGU think is that many of them think they've already made it once they get picked out for support by the SGU. From what I hear, they don't try hard enough and simply aren't professional enough. One recent competition won by Scotland (can't remember which one) the Scotland lads were in the pub getting lashed when they should have been picking up the prize.

There doesn't seem to be the hunger in there from any of them. One local lad to me, might be a bit different. Connor Syme, #7 Amateur in the world and just qualified for the Open, but could just end up like all the rest of them like Bradley Neil, David Law, Wallace Booth, Saltman brothers etc and turn into a busted flush who already thought they were good enough.

Hope it changes soon, the Welsh too to be fair. And, unless I'm mistaken, neither country's women have produced top players since the Matthew/Marshall/Moodie/Morgan generation.

And it comes at a time that Russell Knox seems to be spinning his wheels and Martin Laird only has just so much ambition. Scott Jamieson is an interesting one though, capable of swings in form to match anyone in world golf.

wiretapper wrote:
council telly

Do you mean sky?

I always considered Sky to be Council Telly because every council estate is festooned with dishes whilst their children live in poverty.

Terrible start from Mcilroy +4 after 4

raycastleunited wrote:

wiretapper wrote:
council telly

Do you mean sky?

No, the opposite. Where I am from council telly is non-subscription so originally BBC1&2, ITV, CH4 with the freeview channels nowadays but never Sky.

When I was a kid between the BBC and ITV all four majors were live (although not all four days for the US based) plus the European PGA, British Masters, Benson & Hedges from Fulford, Eurpean Open at Walton Heath, the Suntory World Match-Play, the Scottish Open, the Epson Grand Prix Match-Play were also live at least the weekend.

Nowadays Saturday and Sunday from the Masters is the only live golf on council telly in the UK.

Does it make a difference? I think it does. It's no secret that golf participation how been on an overall downward trend although a slight increase in 2015/16 raises some hope.

I also appreciate that Sky has done a lot to promote golf. I have sky sports and enjoy the coverage but I would like to see a bit more live on council telly for the good of the game.

I'm looking forward to Sky going ahead with their single sport sports channels. I don't want the football, but would have the golf

Like Super, I assumed Council Telly meant Sky because all council estates are full of sky dishes.

Looking forward to watching a bit of this over the next few days. Always enjoy watching a tournament at a couse I've played. I appreciate it so much more when I've faced the same shots as the pros (although maybe not played them the same way haha). Will enjoy Birkdale next week for the same reason.

I think Dundonald is more of a challenge than Portstewart, but without a bit of wind to protect it, we could see another week of low scoring.

Wasn't live coverage of the Scottish Open on the bbc not all that long ago?

I think you are right Mac, I certainly remember Loch Lomond and perhaps Castle Stuart being on BBC.

It was on the Beeb though unsure how long it was on for. I recall it being at Loch Lomond.

Playing this course in a few weeks, it will likely kill me!

Don't worry Ben, Dundonald is a very fair course. Fairways are reasonably generous... You'll only get beaten up by the wind!

Yes, I certainly remember watching it from Loch Lomond on the Beeb so at some point in the last ten years it has switched. However my point was about the overall gradual removal of live golf from TV (not including Sky) and if it has an effect on participation numbers.

Pretty much all sport has disappeared or at least been decimated from the BBC.

We aren't left with much at all other than Wimbledon, Davis Cup, 6 Nations and World Cup/Euro Championship type events, even staples like Athletics and Horse Racing have gone.

That's why they make such a big show of things like The Boat Race because that's all they have on an annual basis.

Is Dundonald as good as it looks?

Looked pretty amazing as I had it on the tube whilst getting ready for work this morning.

Link for a flyover: http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2017/7/10/scottish-open-dundonald-links-flyover-1-to-18.html

Rory's problems today weren't just with the putter. MC, MC, win the Open?

kwinigolfer wrote:Is Dundonald as good as it looks?

It is wonderful. Hard to believe the course was only opened in 2004, it feels like a classic links that's been around a hundred + years. Kyle Phillips take a bow.

And now the PGA champs not on any UK TV channel

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jul/13/rory-mcilroy-scottish-open-golf-poulter-fowler




So not sure where we can watch it?

Unless it's going to be streamed live on YouTube or similar I don't think anyone in the UK will bother. Paying for Sky is one thing but I'm not going to shell out extra for the poorest (despite field strength before anyone jumps down my throat) of the majors.

kwinigolfer wrote:Is Dundonald as good as it looks?

In a word...yep!!! What I never really understood is with all the land available as you drive in, why a Marriott or De Vere type chain (or even dare I say DT) hasn't moved in. The club house still resembles a glorified big portakabin from the outside. Obviously it was temporary but it's still there.

The course itself I love it, loads of variety and a stern test in anything upwards of a 1-2 club wind. For a club that was allegedly short of money I've always found it in fabulous condition too. Have to be honest if I were to move back home to Ayrshire it would be my chosen home club.

From an event perspective I'd say it's quite a good viewing course too despite the lack of any significant elevation changes.

Surely golf not being on pay TV is good for the sport in general, if the PGA just sell out to BT then its a nonsense. But if they go for streaming on you tube and maybe some FTA coverage, then good on them. Sky having a Sky Golf channel and not all the majors is a bit embarrassing for them.

SmithersJones wrote:Unless it's going to be streamed live on YouTube or similar I don't think anyone in the UK will bother. Paying for Sky is one thing but I'm not going to shell out extra for the poorest (despite field strength before anyone jumps down my throat) of the majors.

Right now this is how I feel. However I will probably sucumb a couple of days before if it a PPV.

Good thing Callum Shinkwin is not American.

No telling what kind of angst there would be about his name if he was born over here.

Lots of Callums around, GPB, even one or two up here.
Not exactly as if he's named after a hotel chain.

Impressive from Poulter, he's like a TDF rider that's been dropped by the owgr Top 50 peloton and is racing to catch back up. Might do it if he can win here, or get a podium here and play well at Birkdale.

Good thing there "Howard" and "Johnson" are uncommon names then.

Just strange that if a UK has a name that is uncommon, it is excused as part of the culture.

But a melting pot of cultures in the USA, a strange name gets ridiculed

Very disappointing round from Harrington...so many short putts missed

As usual, I will be happy to let anyone know which names are acceptable or not. Just some awful parenting out there ... handing out names like Danny, Ian, Lee, Rory. Ridiculous.

Meanwhile, some challenging looking weather out there at Dundonald.

I see no reason why people make fun of peoples names, not like you choose them yourselves. Though a mate told me about a family member called dipshit, indian name probably spelt differently.

Trust an American to be confused over the difference between a traditional, but unusual, name and a completely made up one

Callum for example is quite a rare name, but totally traditional.

Unlike some American names

Totally traditional. It derives from: what should we call'um?

Callum is an scientific name for Dove and as such has been popular with Christians given its connotations for peace.

Scientific should have read ancient!

Davie wrote:Trust an American to be confused over the difference between a traditional, but unusual, name and a completely made up one

Callum for example is quite a rare name, but totally traditional.

Unlike some American names

Traditional? Is that now your reason and/or standard?

Its "traditional" among Americans to give Mother's (and Grandmother's) maiden names to their children.

Good job I didn't call my daughter Thomas . . . . . . . .

GPB wrote:

Davie wrote:Trust an American to be confused over the difference between a traditional, but unusual, name and a completely made up one

Callum for example is quite a rare name, but totally traditional.

Unlike some American names

Traditional?  Is that now your reason and/or standard?

Its "traditional" among Americans to give Mother's (and Grandmother's) maiden names to their children.

In that case Mrs Boo, Mrs Tiger, Mrs Smiley, Mrs Fuzzy, Mrs Gaylord , Mrs Bubba, Mrs JB, Mrs Wiffy etc had bloody stupid maiden names.

Callum isn't remotely a "rare" name. Whatever gave you that idea?

I'll leave it to the experts to ratify this thought, but Wiesberger's approx 50th place may be on the precipice of breaking his string of 23 cuts with owgr points scored. No doubt princedrac will be all over that and advise who's next in line.
PS: What the hell kind of name is Bernd?

Hoping Poults does the business today, but imagine winning will be a learning process for him all over again.

super_realist wrote:

GPB wrote:

Davie wrote:Trust an American to be confused over the difference between a traditional, but unusual, name and a completely made up one

Callum for example is quite a rare name, but totally traditional.

Unlike some American names

Traditional?  Is that now your reason and/or standard?

Its "traditional" among Americans to give Mother's (and Grandmother's) maiden names to their children.

In that case Mrs Boo, Mrs Tiger, Mrs Smiley, Mrs Fuzzy, Mrs Gaylord , Mrs Bubba, Mrs JB, Mrs Wiffy etc had bloody stupid maiden names.

Callum isn't remotely a "rare" name. Whatever gave you that idea?

Boo, Tiger, Fuzzy Bubba are not given names, they are nicknames. Just like "Poults" and "Rors" "G-Mac" is a nickname.

JB? Now initials are out of bounds? BTW he went with JB Holmes because of an infamous "actor" is named John Holmes.

Gaylord is off limits now? I used to play a lot of golf with a guy who last named was Gaylord.

Smiley? It is a family name, no worse than have a Prince Harry.

Its fricking incredible how a name can your knickers in a knot. Of all the idiotic things to get upset about. Chill out, and you will be a lot more happier.

Don't be silly GPB. Does it say "G-Mac" on the US Open Trophy? Does it say Poults on any trophies he's won (there haven't been many)? Does it say Poults or GMAC on any leaderboards either feature on? No it doesn't, so think of a better analogy next time because that was terrible.
Neither Poulter, McIlroy or McDowell refer to themselves as their nicknames.

Woods, Watson, Boo etc INSIST on being called those names and refer to themselves as such.


I'm not saying names are off limits, just that certain ones SOUND stupid and insisting on being called Boo, Bubba and Tiger just makes you look a grade A plank.

Calling yourself, without shame, Tiger, Boo, Bubba, Wiffy etc is just ridiculous.

You're the one who objects to my laughing at blatantly silly names and who constantly brings it up.

who is called Wiffy?

Nice fightback from Padraig and take some of the momentum he gained back!


Shinkwin is one hell of a talent

I wish I lived in a world where the names of people I dont know riled me. Oh to have an easy life.

If it's not a "tradition" in the US, it's a stupid tradition. Get it? (Trust a "Brit" to be confused by that. You people could avoid a lot of back and forth if you bothered to check with me first.)

Glad to help.

Shotrock = perfectly acceptable name

Back to golf? Great second shot by rcb

Wasnt this latest round of "silly name" debate started by GPB? I wonder if the G stands for Gaylord....