Ireland v Canada and New Zealand x2

First topic message reminder :

Happy for additional info, formatting,etc to be added by mods.

Here is the squad for the Canada game.

Ireland squad v Canada

Niyi Adeolukun (Connacht)*
Finlay Bealham (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) Captain
Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Leinster)
Sean Cronin (St Mary’s College/Leinster)
Ultan Dillane (Galway Corinthians/Connacht)
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Tadgh Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)
Craig Gilroy (Bangor/Ulster)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) vc
Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Leinster)
Billy Holland (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster)*
Kieran Marmion (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)
Jack McGrath (St Mary’s College/Leinster)
Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster)*
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Sean O’Brien (UCD/Leinster)
Jack O’Donoghue (UL Bohemians/Munster)*
Tiernan O’Halloran (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Peter O’Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Jared Payne (Ulster)
Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster)*
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
Jonathan Sexton (St Marys/Leinster)
CJ Stander (Munster)
Darren Sweetnam (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
James Tracy (UCD/Leinster)*
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)

I'm guessing the 15 that will play the ABs next weekend will all be rested, this will mean the team will most likely come from this group of players:

Niyi Adeolukun (Connacht)*
Finlay Bealham (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Leinster)
Sean Cronin (St Mary’s College/Leinster)
Ultan Dillane (Galway Corinthians/Connacht)
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Craig Gilroy (Bangor/Ulster)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Billy Holland (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster)*
Kieran Marmion (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)
Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster)*
Sean O’Brien (UCD/Leinster)
Jack O’Donoghue (UL Bohemians/Munster)*
Tiernan O’Halloran (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Peter O’Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster)*
John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
Darren Sweetnam (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
James Tracy (UCD/Leinster)*
Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)

Also, do we expect any changes to the NZ match? I imagine Henderson, Earls, POM and Jackson will likely come in. Maybe even Marshall or Ringrose if JS looks to re-jig the backline.

My team for Canada:

Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Sean Cronin (St Mary’s College/Leinster)
John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)- give him 50 min to prove fitness
Billy Holland (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
Peter O’Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Sean O’Brien (UCD/Leinster)
Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster)* // Jack O’Donoghue (UL Bohemians/Munster)*// Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)

Kieran Marmion (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
Craig Gilroy (Bangor/Ulster)
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)
Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster)*
Niyi Adeolukun (Connacht)*
Tiernan O’Halloran (Buccaneers/Connacht)

James Tracy (UCD/Leinster)*
Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Finlay Bealham (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Ultan Dillane (Galway Corinthians/Connacht)
Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster)* // Jack O’Donoghue (UL Bohemians/Munster)*// Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)- not too sure who to pick here. All have put their hand up this season.
Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster)*
Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Leinster)
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)

A lot of new caps but there is still a decent amount of experience in that team.

profitius wrote:I think this is it.

Healy
Cronin
Bealham
Dillane
Holland*
POM
SOB
JOD*

Marmion
Jackson
Earls
Marshall
Ringrose*
Gilroy
TOH

Tracy*
Kilcoyne
J Ryan*
D Ryan
Leavy*
Carbery
L McGrath
Adeolokun*


*7 uncapped players
No Henderson.

A few of those now really need to pull up their socks at International level and offer some real competition - they have to hit Canada with the power, precision, concentration levels and 80 minute mentality that the team did against NZ.  Healy needs to get back up quickly.  He needs to be more than just a 'safe pair of hands' and be an influential power player with a lot of controlled aggression. No hot head stuff but plenty of team effort aggression.
Earls and Gilroy, if there, need to get over all these seeming confidence issues too.  They've been to school long enough, they're old enough.  No excuses; 80 minutes of good stuff not 80 mins of some good and some scary.  That 'maybe I'll be good and maybe I won't' approach is not good enough anymore.  There are too many players waiting their chance.

Your right fly. If your in the team your playing to stay there. You give it every ounce of effort skill precision and belief. No half hearted saving myself bullwhip.
All out for 80 mins

Doesnt leave that strong a team for Munster to take on the Maoris.

EDIT: They have already announced their team


Andrew Conway
Darren Sweetnam
Jaco Taute
Rory Scannell
Ronan O’Mahony
Ian Keatley
Duncan Williams
James Cronin
Niall Scannell
Stephen Archer
John Madigan
Darren O’Shea
Tommy O’Donnell Capt.
Conor Oliver
Robin Copeland

Replacements: Rhys Marshall, Peter McCabe, Brian Scott, Sean O’Connor, John Foley, Te Aihe Toma, Dan Goggin, Alex Wootton.

profitius wrote:
*7 uncapped players
No Henderson.

Hendersons fit but seem to be saving him and giving him a crack at being 100% for next week which will be interesting with Toner, Ryan, Dillane and Henderson and maybe Holland too if he really steps up against Canada

Golden wrote:Doesnt leave that strong a team for Munster to take on the Maoris

Seems so.  But then, it would be a serious fault if we took Canada for granted as NZ probably took us for granted.  We know only from last week how quickly expectation hits you in the bum.  So we have to be cautious.  In real terms at International level, the Canadian game is more important.  We have to sustain momentum given the games we have coming up after Canada.  It would be lovely to see Munster beat the Maoris, but we're in a rhythm sustaining exercise here and indeed, in a bit of a points sustaining exercise to.  Canada must be a priority.

marty2086 wrote:

profitius wrote:
*7 uncapped players
No Henderson.

Hendersons fit but seem to be saving him and giving him a crack at being 100% for next week which will be interesting with Toner, Ryan, Dillane and Henderson and maybe Holland too if he really steps up against Canada

Ahh remember the good old days when we had just the 3 decent locks in the entire country? Made picking the team. Simple.
But I do love the fact that all 5 should be destroying themselves in training to get that starting spot. Can only make them all better

It's fantastic to see the depth we now have in most positions except unfortunately for 9. Conor Murray is now one of the best players we have and a real leader, but after that there is a serious drop-off in quality. Marmion and Luke McGrath blow hot and cold and to be honest I'd fear for our prospects if Murray ever ends up crocked - thankfully he's been reasonably injury-free but....

carpet baboon wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

profitius wrote:
*7 uncapped players
No Henderson.

Hendersons fit but seem to be saving him and giving him a crack at being 100% for next week which will be interesting with Toner, Ryan, Dillane and Henderson and maybe Holland too if he really steps up against Canada

Ahh remember the good old days when we had just the 3 decent locks in the entire country? Made picking the team. Simple.
But I do love the fact that all 5 should be destroying themselves in training to get that starting spot. Can only make them all better

That's the point and I keep saying it's probably the main reason why the ABs are so good, so sharp.  They get to train alongside players that push them often harder than the opposition they're going to meet.  You need a strong squad to push training and then that training helps the team do better on the field.  The more competition behind the scenes, the harder the training, the better the end result should be............................................... in theory

brennomac wrote:It's fantastic to see the depth we now have in most positions except unfortunately for 9. Conor Murray is now one of the best players we have and a real leader, but after that there is a serious drop-off in quality. Marmion and Luke McGrath blow hot and cold and to be honest I'd fear for our prospects if Murray ever ends up crocked - thankfully he's been reasonably injury-free but....

We keep saying this though. The others look awkward and iffy because they are in that classic waiting position and obviously don't get as much top grade International quality gametime as Murray.

In my opinion Murray can be hot and cold too - or at least he could be up until now. I'll be hoping he's always in hot mode from here on in.

brennomac wrote:It's fantastic to see the depth we now have in most positions except unfortunately for 9. Conor Murray is now one of the best players we have and a real leader, but after that there is a serious drop-off in quality. Marmion and Luke McGrath blow hot and cold and to be honest I'd fear for our prospects if Murray ever ends up crocked - thankfully he's been reasonably injury-free but....

Remember when Murray used to do that?

For me the turning point for him was the Lions tour and he seemed to really mature in the environment

Like the guys are saying about the second rows, I think Marmion and McGrath who are 24 and 23 can only improve being in the squad and hopefully getting more game time will push them on a bit more

I like this team alot. I feel we can (and should if we want to set a marker for the next NZ match) run up a big score. A player like Niyi I don't think will excel against top 3 international teams but even off the bench will run rampage against Canada. Gilroy too.

No mid game die off to let them play.  IF we are running circles round them, and I'm not smug enough to suggest we will be - but IF we are, then no mid game die-off to let them back.  That's what I'll be looking for.

ps - I'm talking of Canada of course.... not the ABs!

Likely team for NZ in Dublin

15 B Smith
14 Dagg
13 Lienart Brown
12 Fekitoa
11 J Savea
10 B Barrett
9 Perenara
8 Reid
7 Cane
6 Kaino
5 Retallick
4 Tuipolotu
3 Moody
2 Coles
1 O Franks

16 Taylor
17 Crockett
18 Faumoina
19 Squires
20 Savea
21 Smith
22 Cruden
23 Tumanivalu

I'm assuming Whitelock, Romano and Crotty are all unavailable.

SecretFly wrote:No mid game die off to let them play.  IF we are running circles round them, and I'm not smug enough to suggest we will be - but IF we are, then no mid game die-off to let them back.  That's what I'll be looking for.

ps - I'm talking of Canada of course.... not the ABs!

Canada don't have 3 of their most experienced players in Ardron, Cudmore and Hassler so while its an experimental Irish side its a weakened Canada side too

Perhaps. But if the mood wasn't right in Ireland camp, or if certain players were trying to keep safe for bigger more notable games down the line, then that Canada could still surprise and do a NZ job on us.
The one thing is certain, they'll have more fire in the blood now to try beating the side that beat the ABs. It's cyclical. They'll give it everything. We'd be wise not to stand off whilst trying to produce a measured game.

All I'm saying is keep up the tempo - go at them and don't let the foot off the peddle. The tempo must be sustained.

Think Joes laid down the challenge of making the team or 23 the following week so if beating Canada doesn't do it then playing the ABs might do it

marty2086 wrote:Think Joes laid down the challenge of making the team or 23 the following week so if beating Canada doesn't do it then playing the ABs might do it

I think too that the players playing against Canada are smart enough to know that pretty much Joe won't want to do too much horse trading on the side that played in Chicago come game 2. They know there is only one or two places at most available. Oh I think they will play well but just that lull mid game needs to be ironed out of the system. It was the ABs, but three tries without too much trouble in that period? We always let sides back at us and not just the ABs.