Ireland v Canada and New Zealand x2

Happy for additional info, formatting,etc to be added by mods.

Here is the squad for the Canada game.

Ireland squad v Canada

Niyi Adeolukun (Connacht)*
Finlay Bealham (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) Captain
Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Leinster)
Sean Cronin (St Mary’s College/Leinster)
Ultan Dillane (Galway Corinthians/Connacht)
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Tadgh Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)
Craig Gilroy (Bangor/Ulster)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) vc
Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Leinster)
Billy Holland (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster)*
Kieran Marmion (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)
Jack McGrath (St Mary’s College/Leinster)
Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster)*
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Sean O’Brien (UCD/Leinster)
Jack O’Donoghue (UL Bohemians/Munster)*
Tiernan O’Halloran (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Peter O’Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Jared Payne (Ulster)
Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster)*
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
Jonathan Sexton (St Marys/Leinster)
CJ Stander (Munster)
Darren Sweetnam (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
James Tracy (UCD/Leinster)*
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)

I'm guessing the 15 that will play the ABs next weekend will all be rested, this will mean the team will most likely come from this group of players:

Niyi Adeolukun (Connacht)*
Finlay Bealham (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Leinster)
Sean Cronin (St Mary’s College/Leinster)
Ultan Dillane (Galway Corinthians/Connacht)
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Craig Gilroy (Bangor/Ulster)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Billy Holland (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster)*
Kieran Marmion (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)
Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster)*
Sean O’Brien (UCD/Leinster)
Jack O’Donoghue (UL Bohemians/Munster)*
Tiernan O’Halloran (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Peter O’Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster)*
John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
Darren Sweetnam (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
James Tracy (UCD/Leinster)*
Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)

Also, do we expect any changes to the NZ match? I imagine Henderson, Earls, POM and Jackson will likely come in. Maybe even Marshall or Ringrose if JS looks to re-jig the backline.

My team for Canada:

Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Sean Cronin (St Mary’s College/Leinster)
John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)- give him 50 min to prove fitness
Billy Holland (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
Peter O’Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Sean O’Brien (UCD/Leinster)
Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster)* // Jack O’Donoghue (UL Bohemians/Munster)*// Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)

Kieran Marmion (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
Craig Gilroy (Bangor/Ulster)
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)
Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster)*
Niyi Adeolukun (Connacht)*
Tiernan O’Halloran (Buccaneers/Connacht)

James Tracy (UCD/Leinster)*
Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Finlay Bealham (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Ultan Dillane (Galway Corinthians/Connacht)
Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster)* // Jack O’Donoghue (UL Bohemians/Munster)*// Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)- not too sure who to pick here. All have put their hand up this season.
Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster)*
Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Leinster)
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)

A lot of new caps but there is still a decent amount of experience in that team.

the-goon wrote:Happy for additional info, formatting,etc to be added by mods.

Or you know... you could do it?

Notch wrote:

Or you know... you could do it?

goon, you're like Tom Sawyer letting the other kids paint the fence.

Ireland to put 50+ on Canada and beat NZ by 8.

Maybe he knows he's a schidt painter? Not everyone has the time or patience to produce a Georgie Carlin 'Picasso' piece.

What are we thinking as far as second and back row is concerned with Murphy out and O'Mahony and Henderson returning?? Bare in mind O'Brien is also available.

I think van der Flier should be rewarded for his performance in replacing Murphy, should start at 7 against NZ if available after the Canada game. Heaslip I think is a definite for number 8. Toner also a definite in the second row.

Which gives us:-

4 - Toner
5 -
6 -
7 - van der Flier
8 - Heaslip

The remaining options are Ryan or Henderson at 5. Henderson, O'Mahony or O'Brien at 6.

Assuming all fit and available I would go for:

4 - Toner
5 - Ryan
6 - O'Mahony
7 - van der Flier
8 - Heaslip

19 - Henderson
20 - O'Brien

Thoughts?

Hold on a minute, I've only gone and left out CJ Stander.

Bloody hell.

Just after watching a little highlight reel of some of the best tries of the weekend - club and International.  Some wonderful team tries and tricks.  And some great lone-wolf sprinter tries.  
Now, we were playing the highest ranked team of the lot of them so things were always going to be tight in the creativity department.  But even so, I'd love to see some inventiveness now against Canada.  Win is most important but I still think, even in that great performance against the ABs, we tend to lack (or seldom show) a more loose running desire to break free and streak in with some instinctive skill.
Joe doesn't like risk - but I'd love to see some of the new confidence allow players to really put the after-burners on, stretch those legs and chance some arty tries next weekend

So is Jackson going to be included then?

Will Earls, Ryan, Holland play Canada if Munster are playing the Maoris the night before? I'd imagine they all would have played a part in this game.

Golden wrote:So is Jackson going to be included then?

Will Earls, Ryan, Holland play Canada if Munster are playing the Maoris the night before? I'd imagine they all would have played a part in this game.

Munster will want to win.... and are the Maoris the tougher assignment?  Don't like to tempt fate on that one as Canada could smash us to pieces (after all, we did the job on the ABs) but it would appear that Munster have the tougher game.

Reckon the IRFU will want Munster to be fielding a strong side so they can bring in some money and pay off some of their debt.....

Rory Scannell could feel a little hard done by. I think he has been one of the most consistent players for Munster over the past few seasons and he offers both physicality and skill to the 12 shirt. I guess there is a lot of cover in the centres, though.

I think that POM should play against the Maori All Blacks instead of the Canada game. It will be a harder test and prepare him better for the All Blacks. He will surely be in the 23 for the next game.

I'd also give Carbery the start at 10 for the Canada game, regardless of Jackson's availability.

Joe doesn't like risk - but I'd love to see some of the new confidence allow players to really put the after-burners on, stretch those legs and chance some arty tries next weekend Wink.

See I'm confused by this thinking about Joe. It seems common knowledge that he likes a lot of prep work and everyone knowing there roles within the team, but when you read O'Connells or bods autobiographys, plus stuff from other players he's coached, they all seem to praise him for encouraging them to play heads up rugby.
It's so confusing

Would like to see a back row of O'brien, Van der Flier and Stander at 8. Give Heaslip a rest. Would like to see Ringrose at centre and the lad from Connaught at full back.

carpet baboon wrote:Joe doesn't like risk - but I'd love to see some of the new confidence allow players to really put the after-burners on, stretch those legs and chance some arty tries next weekend Wink.

See I'm confused by this thinking about Joe. It seems common knowledge that he likes a lot of prep work and everyone knowing there roles within the team, but when you read O'Connells or bods autobiographys, plus stuff from other players he's coached, they all seem to praise him for encouraging them to play heads up rugby.
It's so confusing

I'm confused too, baboon - because no matter how many times people try to rewrite the history of Leinster - and every time this topic comes up, plenty do - no matter who tries to tell me that Leinster, under Joe, didn't play much different to how Ireland plays now, I go back over the reels and I see acres of difference.
Now, that usually throws up the notion that Leinster were club/Provincial and International is a whole other kettle of fish.  Yes, it is, but virtually all International observers will still say that Ireland, on average, is a pretty conservative side when compared to the top six or seven.  These sides all have club games to get back to but they don't use it as an excuse for toning down creativity at International level.
Now that usually throws up the notion that we don't have the players that can throw it around more instinctively, like the Aussies and even the Welsh, and that brings us back to Leinster and a coach called Joe and his own philosophy at the time of turning Leinster into the most skilled passing side in Europe.

We're good.  Don't get me wrong.  And I love Joe.  But every time I watch us - and even at the weekend - it's good, it's effective - it damn well scored five tries! - but it still looks constrained in many ways.  It looks tense, not fully at ease with itself.  
I can only be honest in what I see.  How good could we be if many of the players were true to what they say Joe encourages more often.  The players don't have that desire to chance a bit of personal élan and go for it further out.  Yes, I agree it's an aesthetic I'm talking about.  Winning is most important of all and Joe understand that losing a game with showy tries is a pointless exercise.  And it is - but it also allows players to believe in the possible and believe in their skills to evade and turn up the throttle. That can prove more rewarding than some fancy tries in losing games. It can help create the space that opponents can't get back at us. We've had a habit of allowing sides back at us when we haven't put the scoreboard out far enough.  

It's difficult to build up a sustained will and ability to play 'Heads Up' rugby if you're waiting for the well timed set pieces too much.  Our last try, you just knew it was a well timed set-piece.  Good.  I suppose I'd like us to be more inclined to chance those moments rather than wait for the particular planned set-piece moment .... but that's why the ABs weren't ready.  Ireland are not known for doing them all that often.  We're all too often the conservative guys in green.
It was a great victory.  It was a wonderful victory.  We could be so much better though with more evasion, more explosions of pace.  Maybe it's coming and I'm just being impatient.  .

carpet baboon wrote:See I'm confused by this thinking about Joe. It seems common knowledge that he likes a lot of prep work and everyone knowing there roles within the team, but when you read O'Connells or bods autobiographys, plus stuff from other players he's coached, they all seem to praise him for encouraging them to play heads up rugby.
It's so confusing

I don't think that those things are mutually exclusive. He's a stickler for detail and knowing your job inside out, but he definitely empowers players to make decisions on the pitch. I mean, all he can do is give them the tools and trust them to decide when to use them. Knowing your detail isn't the same as being some kind of rugby automaton.

Well said secretfly. Predictable was the word I most used to describe Ireland for a few years now. The big difference I found from the NZ game compared to previous games was they were playing more heads up rugby and varied the attack more.


They didn't do anything amazing but did everything well, showing high levels of skill.


It was kind of like Schmidt realised that they had gotten too one dimensional and so they must have had some talks about varying things more and becoming less predictable.

I honestly didn't think we played much differently in terms of overall strategy... just better.

Notch wrote:I honestly didn't think we played much differently in terms of overall strategy... just better.

Agreed, we have been playing this style for all of 2016. To be fair we probably kicked more against NZ than against SA which I liked seeing. Kick ing well has it's place.

Ireland don't tend to struggle when making wholesale changes - part of that I feel is down to how their rugby is organized via the Provincial unions. Another 60 pointer against Canada isn't really good for anyone so I'd make around 10 changes for this one if I was Schmidtball, have the rest do more analysis on NZ.

What team do we think Joe will play for Canada? Rest the main guys that will play next saturday, or try to have minimal disruption?

The thing that stood out most on Saturday was how few errors there were, how clinical we were, and our intensity. Our players by in-large made the correct decision at the right time and executed it to a tee. I just hope that level of mental focus wasn't a once off.

Golden wrote:Reckon the IRFU will want Munster to be fielding a strong side so they can bring in some money and pay off some of their debt.....

Think the IRFU made a lot in Chicago a lot of which is distributed back to provinces etc. The focus tends to be strengthen upwards so they can filter money downwards.

I'd like to see;

1. Cian Healy
2. Sean Cronin
3. John Ryan
4. Ultan Dillane
5. Iain Henderson
6. Peter O'Mahony
7. Josh van der Flier
8. Jamie Heaslip (c)
9. Kieran Marmion
10. Joey Carberry
11. Keith Earls
12. Luke Marshall
13. Garry Ringrose
14. Craig Gilroy
15. Jared Payne

Notch wrote:I'd like to see;

1. Cian Healy
2. Sean Cronin
3. John Ryan
4. Ultan Dillane
5. Iain Henderson
6. Peter O'Mahony
7. Josh van der Flier
8. Jamie Heaslip (c)
9. Kieran Marmion
10. Joey Carberry
11. Keith Earls
12. Luke Marshall
13. Garry Ringrose
14. Craig Gilroy
15. Jared Payne

+1

brennomac wrote:

Notch wrote:I'd like to see;

1. Cian Healy
2. Sean Cronin
3. John Ryan
4. Ultan Dillane
5. Iain Henderson
6. Peter O'Mahony
7. Josh van der Flier
8. Jamie Heaslip (c)
9. Kieran Marmion
10. Joey Carberry
11. Keith Earls
12. Luke Marshall
13. Garry Ringrose
14. Craig Gilroy
15. Jared Payne

+1

I like that team but with TOH at 15. Give Payne a week off

So Rory Best is closing in on 100 caps, an incredible accomplishment for a hooker.

First Irish captain to beat SA in SA and now the ABs,

Where does he sit in terms of Irish greats, his tussle with Flannery for the Irish no2 spot seem a long time ago now.

I'd like to see Niyi Adeolukun get a shot.

rodders wrote:So Rory Best is closing in on 100 caps, an incredible accomplishment for a hooker.

First Irish captain to beat SA in SA and now the ABs,

Where does he sit in terms of Irish greats, his tussle with Flannery for the Irish no2 spot seem a long time ago now.  

Probably brings him up to just under the Low centre of Gravity Marvel McFadden

I hope as many Munster players are released back for the Maori game as possible as I think it would be tough on those Munster players to not be even able to go to the game as its the night before Canada.

The game is sold out and Rua Tipoki is back for it. Rua captained the Maori that beat the B&I Lions on the last tour to NZ, after which ROG & POC talked him into coming to Munster! I also think Jason Holland is over as well, so it will be a big occasion.

Seems that SOB is smarting at the insult of not being chosen for the ABs game at the weekend.  Okay, so he didn't say it like that, but he let it be known that he felt he could have done a job there but accepts that the coaches select the team.

My point is that its good we have a player like SOB missing out (and not liking the idea one little bit) but us still going on and beating a big Leaguer side and not by containment either but by aggressively attacking them for most of the 80 minutes.  It's good for Ireland that SOB seriously doesn't feel safe and knows that if he gets a run-out against Canada, it must make an impact in the mind of Joe.  So he and others on the fringes won't be able to canter through a game, knowing they can take it easy as they'll still get chosen for the big games to come. That was kinda the conditions of an older Irish side.  

Competition is very real now.  It should, HOPEFULLY, keep Ireland on its toes, keep it wanting to play hard, precise, attacking rugby.  I only hope that if he is chosen for Canada, that he doesn't go red-mist.  It's okay to be competitive Sean, but lately the passion has been injuring you (or getting you cards) more than it's been giving us some go forward ball.  Keep the head cool if you play.

SecretFly wrote:

rodders wrote:So Rory Best is closing in on 100 caps, an incredible accomplishment for a hooker.

First Irish captain to beat SA in SA and now the ABs,

Where does he sit in terms of Irish greats, his tussle with Flannery for the Irish no2 spot seem a long time ago now.  

Probably brings him up to just under the Low centre of Gravity Marvel McFadden

McFadden was a fella who always made the players round him look good....particularly the opposition ones...

Nonsense. McFadden has rarely had a bad game for Ireland and has score more tries than lots of Irish wingers in the past.

Best will have to go down as one of our greatest ever captains. he is also probably the most under rated Irish player of all time particularly outside Ireland IMO.

GunsGerms wrote:
he is also probably the most under rated Irish player of all time particularly outside Ireland IMO.

I thought that was Paddy Wallace.

Haha. David Humphries was probably one of our other most under rated players.

Ronan don't think so...

SecretFly wrote:Ronan don't think so...

That's what he told Eddie O'Sullivan anyways...

the-goon wrote:Happy for additional info, formatting,etc to be added by mods.

Here is the squad for the Canada game.

Ireland squad v Canada

Niyi Adeolukun (Connacht)*
Finlay Bealham (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) Captain
Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Leinster)
Sean Cronin (St Mary’s College/Leinster)
Ultan Dillane (Galway Corinthians/Connacht)
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Tadgh Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)
Craig Gilroy (Bangor/Ulster)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) vc
Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Leinster)
Billy Holland (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster)*
Kieran Marmion (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)
Jack McGrath (St Mary’s College/Leinster)
Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster)*
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Sean O’Brien (UCD/Leinster)
Jack O’Donoghue (UL Bohemians/Munster)*
Tiernan O’Halloran (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Peter O’Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Jared Payne (Ulster)
Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster)*
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
Jonathan Sexton (St Marys/Leinster)
CJ Stander (Munster)
Darren Sweetnam (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
James Tracy (UCD/Leinster)*
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)

I'm guessing the 15 that will play the ABs next weekend will all be rested, this will mean the team will most likely come from this group of players:

Niyi Adeolukun (Connacht)*
Finlay Bealham (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Leinster)
Sean Cronin (St Mary’s College/Leinster)
Ultan Dillane (Galway Corinthians/Connacht)
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Craig Gilroy (Bangor/Ulster)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Billy Holland (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster)*
Kieran Marmion (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)
Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster)*
Sean O’Brien (UCD/Leinster)
Jack O’Donoghue (UL Bohemians/Munster)*
Tiernan O’Halloran (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Peter O’Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster)*
John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
Darren Sweetnam (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
James Tracy (UCD/Leinster)*
Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)

Also, do we expect any changes to the NZ match? I imagine Henderson, Earls, POM and Jackson will likely come in. Maybe even Marshall or Ringrose if JS looks to re-jig the backline.

My team for Canada:

Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Sean Cronin (St Mary’s College/Leinster)
John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)- give him 50 min to prove fitness
Billy Holland (Cork Constitution/Munster)*
Peter O’Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Sean O’Brien (UCD/Leinster)
Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster)* // Jack O’Donoghue (UL Bohemians/Munster)*// Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)

Kieran Marmion (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
Craig Gilroy (Bangor/Ulster)
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)
Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster)*
Niyi Adeolukun (Connacht)*
Tiernan O’Halloran (Buccaneers/Connacht)

James Tracy (UCD/Leinster)*
Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Finlay Bealham (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Ultan Dillane (Galway Corinthians/Connacht)
Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster)* // Jack O’Donoghue (UL Bohemians/Munster)*// Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)- not too sure who to pick here. All have put their hand up this season.
Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster)*
Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Leinster)
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)

A lot of new caps but there is still a decent amount of experience in that team.

This is a badly written and edited opening post by the author. The standard of layout is very poor and smacks of 'I'll just stick three long lists of players in and sure those mod fellas can sort it out, they've nothing better to be doing sitting on their arses all day.' Taking a bit of time to work out what you wanted to say in the first place would have reduced the length of it by at 50%. And made it easier for others to read and assimilate.

If you're going to post something, then take the time to submit it properly, make it easy for others to read or scan, and don't assume that just posting 'any oul Poopie' will do. It won't.

Yours in high dudgeon, etc.

tv coverage of NZ v Ireland is it only on bt sports ?

emack2 wrote:tv coverage of NZ v Ireland is it only on bt sports ?

The Ireland home games against Canada, New Zealand and Australia are broadcast on both RTE and Sky Sports.

Pot Hale wrote:

emack2 wrote:tv coverage of NZ v Ireland is it only on bt sports ?

The Ireland home games against Canada, New Zealand and Australia are broadcast on both RTE and Sky Sports.  

Are they? Whew! Thought they were all on Sky.

SecretFly wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

emack2 wrote:tv coverage of NZ v Ireland is it only on bt sports ?

The Ireland home games against Canada, New Zealand and Australia are broadcast on both RTE and Sky Sports.  

Are they?  Whew!  Thought they were all on Sky.

Current IRFU deal runs to end of Nov 2017 internationals.

SecretFly wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Joe doesn't like risk - but I'd love to see some of the new confidence allow players to really put the after-burners on, stretch those legs and chance some arty tries next weekend Wink.

See I'm confused by this thinking about Joe. It seems common knowledge that he likes a lot of prep work and everyone knowing there roles within the team, but when you read O'Connells or bods autobiographys, plus stuff from other players he's coached, they all seem to praise him for encouraging them to play heads up rugby.
It's so confusing

I'm confused too, baboon - because no matter how many times people try to rewrite the history of Leinster - and every time this topic comes up, plenty do - no matter who tries to tell me that Leinster, under Joe, didn't play much different to how Ireland plays now, I go back over the reels and I see acres of difference.
Now, that usually throws up the notion that Leinster were club/Provincial and International is a whole other kettle of fish.  Yes, it is, but virtually all International observers will still say that Ireland, on average, is a pretty conservative side when compared to the top six or seven.  These sides all have club games to get back to but they don't use it as an excuse for toning down creativity at International level.  
Now that usually throws up the notion that we don't have the players that can throw it around more instinctively, like the Aussies and even the Welsh, and that brings us back to Leinster and a coach called Joe and his own philosophy at the time of turning Leinster into the most skilled passing side in Europe.

We're good.  Don't get me wrong.  And I love Joe.  But every time I watch us - and even at the weekend - it's good, it's effective - it damn well scored five tries! - but it still looks constrained in many ways.  It looks tense, not fully at ease with itself.  
I can only be honest in what I see.  How good could we be if many of the players were true to what they say Joe encourages more often.  The players don't have that desire to chance a bit of personal élan and go for it further out.  Yes, I agree it's an aesthetic I'm talking about.  Winning is most important of all and Joe understand that losing a game with showy tries is a pointless exercise.  And it is - but it also allows players to believe in the possible and believe in their skills to evade and turn up the throttle.  That can prove more rewarding than some fancy tries in losing games.  It can help create the space that opponents can't get back at us.  We've had a habit of allowing sides back at us when we haven't put the scoreboard out far enough.    

It's difficult to build up a sustained will and ability to play 'Heads Up' rugby if you're waiting for the well timed set pieces too much.  Our last try, you just knew it was a well timed set-piece.  Good.  I suppose I'd like us to be more inclined to chance those moments rather than wait for the particular planned set-piece moment .... but that's why the ABs weren't ready.  Ireland are not known for doing them all that often.  We're all too often the conservative guys in green.
It was a great victory.  It was a wonderful victory.  We could be so much better though with more evasion, more explosions of pace.  Maybe it's coming and I'm just being impatient.  .

You mention it in the middle of your point - it damn well scored five tries!  Looking back at the game we comfortably stood toe to toe with NZ for an entire match.

It was a match where Healy was benched, Ross didn't even fly over, POC retired, POM and SOB left at home, no Bowe, no Jackson on the bench.  And when I look back at the match we comfortably stood toe to to.

Not so long ago, if we were missing more than 2 of our starting XV players we were done for. The provinces, the academies have been doing great.  Think about the recent strong U20 squads that have done very well and the guys still to come through from them!

Now we have dealt with all of the above, bring in debutants with the game in the balance and don't miss a beat.

And we scored 5 tries against a side that barely conceeded as many in an entire 4N tournament.

I expect almost the entire Chicago team to be rested, some Munster squad men to be given the Maori match and the rest to get the Canadian game.  Would love Payne to be given fullback for Canada game with TOH and Gilroy on the wing.

Best thing about this weekend will be POM, SOB, Henderson, Paddy J, Earls, maybe Ringrose all playing in matches with genuine belief that a good performance puts them in a jersey for the NZ game.  Competition for places is great.

I might have to lay down..... this post is way too positive.

A little looser, a little more confidence and a dollop of break-out self-adoration (just like them ABs )........more tries than 5, band. Thats' the deal I'm on about.

We're that good. I've always been struck by how easily Ireland can score tries at times and still look so so tense. We kill the tension and the world is our oyster. Sorry for being even more positive

wolfball wrote:

Notch wrote:I honestly didn't think we played much differently in terms of overall strategy... just better.

Agreed, we have been playing this style for all of 2016. To be fair we probably kicked more against NZ than against SA which I liked seeing. Kick ing well has it's place.

We very much targeted them in the air and at set pieces- we were extremely canny in manufacturing as many chances to do that as possible, and helped by their poor discipline. Our attacking game only rarely moved the ball wide- though when we did, we did it well- see Paynes beautiful pass to Zebo in the run-up to Henshaws try. I feel there were less offloads than a lot of our games in the Six Nations, and there were a lot of short carries into the midfield and around the ruck and attempts to use the 'Sexton loop'. Seemed like the same game plan as the RWC to be honest.

I've got to cop to one thing, we all talked about Kearney but none of us realised that the coaches had identified their back three as being weak under the high ball- probably because we were all bricking it about what they can do to you if you kick to them loosely. Kearneys aerial skills were key even if his tackling was mixed. He had a good game. Pleased for him.

Has the US Election called this game off?

So where were we before the politics got in the way.  Yes, Canada.  Kearney's aerial skills have only come back to him recently.  Hopefully they now stay here for a few years.  I think he's lacked a lot in confidence in recent years (and actually I think there was a recent article where he alludes to it - I meant to remember where it was and go back to read it but didn't get the time)
Anyway, I think the NEED by the team (Kearney included) to play to the best of their ability, brought out their best - they were too nervous to worry about form.  Weird but nervousness released them from inner concerns and iffy confidence levels.  Actually Trimble gave a lovely honest interview on the real personal feelings of the team in the lead-in and on the psychological battles you have to fight to give yourself at least a good chance against the ABs
I hope the conditioning has improved so that now the guys can push on further than 'one game' per season.  Zebo had exceptional bravery and in order to play these high stakes games, even against England in the 6N, we'll need to be up there again - no fear, no self-doubt and the energy levels to keep things going when they look like they might unwind.

See now I have seen what we are capable off, I expect that standard at every game.
Don't care who the opponent is.
Don't care what the team is.
But I do demand they go out and play like they did on Saturday. No ifs no buts no coconuts.
I dream a lot

Well said, dagnabbit!

SecretFly wrote:Has the US Election called this game off?

So where were we before the politics got in the way.  Yes, Canada.  Kearney's aerial skills have only come back to him recently.  Hopefully they now stay here for a few years.  I think he's lacked a lot in confidence in recent years (and actually I think there was a recent article where he alludes to it - I meant to remember where it was and go back to read it but didn't get the time)

Think this is what you are looking for

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/rob-kearney-inside-my-head-has-been-a-dark-enough-place-in-the-last-few-months-1.2858214

I think this is it.

Healy
Cronin
Bealham
Dillane
Holland*
POM
SOB
JOD*

Marmion
Jackson
Earls
Marshall
Ringrose*
Gilroy
TOH

Tracy*
Kilcoyne
J Ryan*
D Ryan
Leavy*
Carbery
L McGrath
Adeolokun*


*7 uncapped players
No Henderson.

marty2086 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Has the US Election called this game off?

So where were we before the politics got in the way.  Yes, Canada.  Kearney's aerial skills have only come back to him recently.  Hopefully they now stay here for a few years.  I think he's lacked a lot in confidence in recent years (and actually I think there was a recent article where he alludes to it - I meant to remember where it was and go back to read it but didn't get the time)

Think this is what you are looking for

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/rob-kearney-inside-my-head-has-been-a-dark-enough-place-in-the-last-few-months-1.2858214

Thankyou marty Much obliged.