Scarlets vs Connacht

Both surprise packages last season, Connacht ending up champions and Scarlets the only Welsh team to make the Champions Cup.

Both in free fall now though and winless thus far. Its 15 minutes in and an absolutely bizarre game. Connacht are giving away lots of penalties and Scarlets have missed three straight forward three point opportunities. Fair to say whoever loses this is in crisis?

Anyone wants a link say so and I'll pm you.

Scarlets aren't far off the worst performing pro team in the world right now. They can't pass, they can't kick, they can't catch, they can't scrum. I've never seen anything quite like it and given the number of internationals in their ranks it's very bad news for Wales.

One more breakdown penalty and somebody is going to the bin for Connacht.

2nd kick straight out on the full from Patchell, one restart and one penalty - his fourth shocking performance in a row and he still isn't dropped?

Quite cynical from Owens....

mikey_dragon wrote:2nd kick straight out on the full from Patchell, one restart and one penalty - his fourth shocking performance in a row and he still isn't dropped?

Two of the three shots at goal he missed were pretty much straight in front as well. He's having a shocker.

What's happening with Scarlets? The basics are poor.

Now Connacht miss one, this is a farce.

You can see how these two teams are winless, this is embarrassing.

Pivac must be contemplating doing a Hansen and resigning soon - i can't believe he's responsible for this shower of sh!t.

Great try from Scarlets, Liam Williams the man as always. They almost messed it up along the way though. Thank god they make the conversion.

Just a few months ago people were lauding Connacht and their English Football counterparts, Leicester City, for their fairytale stories. A few months is a long time in sport!

Course, by the same token, a few months might be enough time for them to turn it around again

Looking on Connacht they don't seem like badly coached team, they didn't really build on their league win last season though.

2 teams looking very short on confidence

How close was that. But for the wet surface that was a Try.

It takes this long to string a few passes together without dropping it or getting turned over, and even that seems to be short lived. The two teams look pretty poor.

A positive Scarlets can take from this is Wyn Jones. He looks strong in the scrum and good around the field.

Thats really good, heads up rugby to take the drop goal there.

mikey_dragon wrote:A positive Scarlets can take from this is Wyn Jones. He looks strong in the scrum and good around the field.

And Liam Williams is up there with Tommy Seymour and Charles Piutau as one of the best back three players in the league.

Jeez. Connacht are pure Shiite.

What has happened to them?

Would you want player of the season, Bundee Aki, in your team based on this display?

Are Connacht really that slow at getting the ball out the backline or are Scarlets offside?

Notch wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:A positive Scarlets can take from this is Wyn Jones. He looks strong in the scrum and good around the field.

And Liam Williams is up there with Tommy Seymour and Charles Piutau as one of the best back three players in the league.

Agreed. I can never say anything negative about his game, the guy has it all.

Oh dear. Patchell looks more and more like Rhys Priestland with each game.

Clancy shivers as he hopes to never referee such a dire game of rugby again.

Pure and utter dross.

Pot Hale wrote:Clancy shivers as he hopes to never referee such a dire game of rugby again.

Pure and utter dross.

Second bit of dross I've watched today. The Munster game was just as bad.

I missed it. The scoreline seems to indicate a bit more inventiveness but that's guesswork.

You have to wonder about a club that is in such a parlous state to go from champions to chumps with the loss of three players.

Lam's coaching credentials are being severely tested at this point. Is he starting to mirror where he got to with the Blues and then it all fell apart?

Pot Hale wrote:You have to wonder about a club that is in such a parlous state to go from champions to chumps with the loss of three players.

Lam's coaching credentials are being severely tested at this point.   Is he starting to mirror where he got to with the Blues and then it all fell apart?

Its hard to put your finger on, looks to be an element of so much momentum all being spent on a crazy run to become champions and now that momentum is gone and they have nothing left in the tank. Aki looked so perturbed throughout the game, he was very close to Henshaw, not just on the pitch. I wonder has losing his centre partner, a partnership which was a key component of last seasons success, knocked him a bit.

I really hope they can engineer a way out of this.

Scarlets looked a lot better side when Scot Williams came on and Aled Thomas went off. Hopefully the Scarlets will get a bit more confidence from this win.
Any Scarlets fans know what's happened to DTH, there has been talk that he is not happy in west Wales? They could really do with him back in the side. They had no specialist wings in the match day squad today. Liam and Steff best position is 15 and Boyde who was covering back three from the bench is a flanker!

Artful_Dodger wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:You have to wonder about a club that is in such a parlous state to go from champions to chumps with the loss of three players.

Lam's coaching credentials are being severely tested at this point.   Is he starting to mirror where he got to with the Blues and then it all fell apart?

Its hard to put your finger on, looks to be an element of so much momentum all being spent on a crazy run to become champions and now that momentum is gone and they have nothing left in the tank.  Aki looked so perturbed throughout the game, he was very close to Henshaw, not just on the pitch.  I wonder has losing his centre partner, a partnership which was a key component of last seasons success, knocked him a bit.  

I really hope they can engineer a way out of this.

I'm kinda hoping that Aki leaves. I don't think he's been a good lasting influence on the team. There may well have been a bit of a Aki/Henshaw roadshow last season but it don't rub off on others.

But they have severe problems at 9/10- neither are good enough. And the much vaunted back three looked pedestrian and dumbfounded. Connacht have been found out badly this season. At this stage, their European pool group competitors must be licking their lips.

Seagultaf wrote:Scarlets looked a lot better side when Scot Williams came on and Aled Thomas went off. Hopefully the Scarlets will get a bit more confidence from this win.
Any Scarlets fans know what's happened to DTH, there has been talk that he is not happy in west Wales? They could really do with him back in the side. They had no specialist wings in the match day squad today. Liam and Steff best position is 15 and Boyde who was covering back three from the bench is a flanker!

Never really rated Aled. Patchell has not been a good replacement for priest. Bad times

Aled was just as bad too. To have any hope this season you seriously need to shift Patch (just for starters), either to bench or full-back. It looks like you'll have to rely on your two U20 lads who already have experience of playing in the team. I'd also consider a re-jig of the back row as it's not a good combo but then again, is there anybody else available?

Artful_Dodger wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:2nd kick straight out on the full from Patchell, one restart and one penalty - his fourth shocking performance in a row and he still isn't dropped?

Two of the three shots at goal he missed were pretty much straight in front as well.   He's having a shocker.

Aled Thomas was the one who missed the first three pen attempts, not Patchell.

Patchell's kicking from hand kept is playing with a territorial advantage, he did little wrong yesterday and is slowly settling into the team. Much more to come from him over the next few weeks as confidence grows.

2ndtimeround wrote:Patchell's kicking from hand kept is playing with a territorial advantage, he did little wrong yesterday and is slowly settling into the team. Much more to come from him over the next few weeks as confidence grows.

What the hell were you watching? It's not acceptable that a competent pro player with international experience takes this long to settle. He's just not a fly-half like Cardiff told us 2 years ago.

2ndtimeround wrote:Patchell's kicking from hand kept is playing with a territorial advantage, he did little wrong yesterday and is slowly settling into the team. Much more to come from him over the next few weeks as confidence grows.

+1 to that.  He made some mistakes, but to me they looked like someone pushing too hard to try and make things work.  Confidence is a real sod, when the who,e team seem to have none, it effects every player.  It looked to me like Patch was trying too hard too get things perfect, as opposed to just doing things solidly.

That said, a win is under the belts now, and hopefully that'll help settle things down.  Couple that with two easier games coming up, out in Italy and then Dregs at home (who are got humped in Italy), we could be looking at a team on a run of wins heading into the RCC.

It seems Turks are unaware of something hitting them across the face.

mikey_dragon wrote:It seems Turks are unaware of something hitting them across the face.

Would seem that way, as I don't have a clue what your on about.

Well, it's the fact that Patchell has been awful from fly-half for 4 matches in a row and your inability to see something this blatant. The on-going errors he makes like missed kicks to touch, missing kicks at goal, a lack of game-management and dropped balls from first receiver is very reminiscent of Priestland; all turks I've spoken to were and are still completely unaware of RP's limited capabilities which makes me wonder if there's something in the water down West. Patchell broke through at 18/19 and it didn't take long for Blues to figure out he wasn't good enough to play 10 at pro level. If all these previous years weren't enough then how about the 4 opening Scarlets games (as well as pre-season) and also the fact he consistently features well from full-back - he's played well at 15 for both Blues and Wales. It's an absolute no brainer.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

2ndtimeround wrote:Patchell's kicking from hand kept is playing with a territorial advantage, he did little wrong yesterday and is slowly settling into the team. Much more to come from him over the next few weeks as confidence grows.

+1 to that.  He made some mistakes, but to me they looked like someone pushing too hard to try and make things work.  Confidence is a real sod, when the who,e team seem to have none, it effects every player.  It looked to me like Patch was trying too hard too get things perfect, as opposed to just doing things solidly.

That said, a win is under the belts now, and hopefully that'll help settle things down.  Couple that with two easier games coming up, out in Italy and then Dregs at home (who are got humped in Italy), we could be looking at a team on a run of wins heading into the RCC.

I agree, Patchell looks to be trying too hard. He was outstanding at 10 and 15 for Cardiff last season, so I expect him to come good, can't understand though why Aled is starting and taking (and missing) the kicks?

I think that winning in Italy may be a challenge but they should beat the Dragons at PYS. Badly need Their two Wales props back but Young Wyn looks a good find. They also need some wings, Steff and Liam are more comfortable at 15, Boyde who covered back three on the bench is a flanker! Is DTH still at PYS, there has been talk that he is not happy in West Wales, and I am sure McNichols will be a welcome addition.

Aled took the kicks because Patchell has been missing loads of them - Scarlets have one of the worst percentage rates in the league when it comes to kicking at goal according to the commentary; Connacht are the worst I think he said. Patch got 2/2 conversions yesterday but just going by that you can't assume his kicking boots are back on.

Seagul, I believe DTH has meant to be laid low with a few different viruses since playing against Munster.  How true it is I don't know, but to be honest if he wanted out he had his chance over the summer, so I tend not to buy into the DTH doesn't want to play etc.

Also, I believe Boyde was down as a back row replacement, we went for a 6-2 split ( and used them that way too),  but just numbered the bench up with Boyde as 23.  I have seen us do this in the past under Pivac, not sure why though.

As for Aled starting at fullback, I think it is a case of he is the next best fullback after Sanj and Steff, and the step down is not as big as the step down in quality on the wing from DTH, to Ioan Nichollas (I believe the next fit wing in line).  I know there is the option of putting Parkes in the wing, but to be honest the Foxy/Scott partnership has looked lacking, and Parkes is our best centre at the moment (he can catch, pass, and doesn't turn his back in the ball).

mikey_dragon wrote:Aled took the kicks because Patchell has been missing loads of them - Scarlets have one of the worst percentage rates in the league when it comes to kicking at goal according to the commentary; Connacht are the worst I think he said. Patch got 2/2 conversions yesterday but just going by that you can't assume his kicking boots are back on.

It's a Scarlets thing. When we signed Mike Hercus from Sale, he was a goal kicking fly half, then his radar went totally when he was here. Priest couldn't kick for toffee. McShingler was acceptable, but had hit/miss games. Dan Jones has a poor % with us but seems to smash everything with the under 20s Patchell slotted a last minute kick against us in Cardiff last xmas time to win the game, high pressure stuff. Now in the Scarlets jersey he is not so good. And odds are if we poach Nige's boy he will start kicking poorly too.

It just seems like something we need to deal with, accept we can't put pens/cons over, and focus on getting a team together that can run the ball, and put in decent tactical kicks in, and score tries.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Seagul, I believe DTH has meant to be laid low with a few different viruses since playing against Munster.  How true it is I don't know, but to be honest if he wanted out he had his chance over the summer, so I tend not to buy into the DTH doesn't want to play etc.

Also, I believe Boyde was down as a back row replacement, we went for a 6-2 split ( and used them that way too),  but just numbered the bench up with Boyde as 23.  I have seen us do this in the past under Pivac, not sure why though.

As for Aled starting at fullback, I think it is a case of he is the next best fullback after Sanj and Steff, and the step down is not as big as the step down in quality on the wing from DTH, to Ioan Nichollas (I believe the next fit wing in line).  I know there is the option of putting Parkes in the wing, but to ube honest the Foxy/Scott partnership has looked lacking, and Parkes is our best centre at the moment (he can catch, pass, and doesn't turn his back in the ball).

Aled had yet another poor game, his kicking was awful, his defence is poor and he lacks pace, can't see why Pivac plays him. What's happened to Gareth Owen who has looked sharp in the past at 15? Also didn't the Scarlets sign an ex Cardiff wing, Williams?

Pivac clearly must like his loosies! Three flankers starting and a 6, 7 and 8 on the bench!

Pot Hale wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:You have to wonder about a club that is in such a parlous state to go from champions to chumps with the loss of three players.

Lam's coaching credentials are being severely tested at this point.   Is he starting to mirror where he got to with the Blues and then it all fell apart?

Its hard to put your finger on, looks to be an element of so much momentum all being spent on a crazy run to become champions and now that momentum is gone and they have nothing left in the tank.  Aki looked so perturbed throughout the game, he was very close to Henshaw, not just on the pitch.  I wonder has losing his centre partner, a partnership which was a key component of last seasons success, knocked him a bit.  

I really hope they can engineer a way out of this.

I'm kinda hoping that Aki leaves.   I don't think he's been a good lasting influence on the team.    There may well have been a bit of a Aki/Henshaw roadshow last season but it don't rub off on others.

But they have severe problems at 9/10- neither are good enough. And the much vaunted back three looked pedestrian and dumbfounded.  Connacht have been found out badly this season.    At this stage, their European pool group competitors must be licking their lips.

Its really clear why we are suffering. Last year we played very close to the gainline, but our passing/offloading was quick enough to handle most rush defences. This year we are very slow getting out of the ruck, and so are getting smashed. Scarlets were offside in the defensive line all day long, but we were often aswell so ref wise it balanced out. So the options are quivker ruck ball or play with a shade more depth. I would say the latter is best as we can at least control that. The problem with our defence is that we are playing a rush with a "mad dog" but the non-mad dog part of the rush defence isnt flat and so instead of creating 1 gap with the "mad dog" (which is a calculated risk to disrupt/intercept and is usally Aki) we have loads of gaps across our defensive line. Marmion is helter skelter at the moment and Carty while a fine lad, is simply not good enough, and would struggle to make the italian team squad. Worrying start.

This was the worst game I have watched in a long time. OMG, both sides were dire. The only saving grace, is that these two teams can only get better.

Half the Welsh team are playing for Scarlets, on that showing only Scott Williams and Liam Williams should be picked in a few weeks time.

LordDowlais wrote:This was the worst game I have watched in a long time. OMG, both sides were dire. The only saving grace, is that these two teams can only get better.

Half the Welsh team are playing for Scarlets, on that showing only Scott Williams and Liam Williams should be picked in a few weeks time.

The weather was appalling torrential rain and gusting wind, the ball was like a bar of soap. In addition to the Williams boys, Ken Owen, Ball, Shingler and Cubby played well.

I expect Owen, Samson, Ball, Cawdor, JD2, and the Williams boys to be in the Wales squad, with Olympic Silver medalist Cubby an outsider.

Seagultaf wrote:The weather was appalling torrential rain and gusting wind, the ball was like a bar of soap.

Ah, so it was the weathers fault.

I expect Owen, Samson, Ball, Cawdor, JD2, and the Williams boys to be in the Wales squad, with Olympic Silver medalist Cubby an outsider

I do not doubt it, although they do not deserve it on current form.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:It's a Scarlets thing.  When we signed Mike Hercus from Sale, he was a goal kicking fly half, then his radar went totally when he was here.  Priest couldn't kick for toffee.  McShingler was acceptable, but had hit/miss games.  Dan Jones has a poor % with us but seems to smash everything with the under 20s  Patchell slotted a last minute kick against us in Cardiff last xmas time to win the game, high pressure stuff.  Now in the Scarlets jersey he is not so good.  And odds are if we poach Nige's boy he will start kicking poorly too.

Doesn't excuse Hercus, but I remember a post match interview with Priestland right before he left, may even have been his final game at PYS, and he mentioned that he still couldn't predict, read, and amend his kicking to suit the swirling wind conditions at the stadium after all the years he had been there. Would be interesting to compare kicking stats of our kickers home and away, see if there is a general trend that makes them kick terribly at home.

Patchell seems like a goal kicker in Priestland's mould. Big long boot, can nail some stupidly hard kicks from the sidelines, but prone to missing the fairly central and mid range kicks too frequently to make him a reliable kicker. Stephen Jones suffered from the same problem, but didn't miss those easier kicks frequently enough for it to really be a stick to beat him with. I also think the modern accuracy of goalkickers from the early days of professionalism with Neil Jenkins and Jonny Wilkinson, and now today with Biggar and Halfpenny, does heighten the expectation of what is acceptable and what is not as a frontline kicker. None of which really helps the Scarlets, particularly when they've played with no cohesion and haven't looked like scoring the tries that not having an 85%+ kicker would offset.