GGG v Brook - Can anybody make a case for Brook ??

First topic message reminder :

I'm seeing a welterweight who isn't lightning fast and doesn't carry huge power at 147.....A welterweight that isn't the most defensively efficient and a guy that went life and death with the ordinary Jones and narrowly outpointed the rugged but decent Shawn Porter...Moving up two weights to fight the best fighter in the sport......(Brook has improved but his weaknesses remain)

Hearn's only line of spin seems to be that both are the best in their divisions and Brook will be better at middle... which like I wrote on an earlier thread makes one wonder why he's never campaigned at 154 ???.....If he's not as good at welter why campaign there ??......

Of course in the last 30 or so years there have been admirable efforts from welters to claim the middle by jumping two divisions and avoiding 154...........Nunn v Starling being one.......A very good performance by Marlon against a great middle.......But Starling had one of the best defences the game has ever seen and Nunn wasn't really a pressure fighter........Nunn won a majority but it was close !!!

I see a lot of Azumah Nelson in GGG.........one of these fighters who appears to be all over you even when he isn't......He'll make you work three minutes a round while every so often banging in some hurtful and wearing combinations.....Decent speed....Accuracy...Great footwork....Good tank and defensively sound........

Like Nelson he's a master craftsman.............

For me any advantages Brook has are negated at the higher weight...He's hitting bigger men and the extra weight will slow him down...

Yes these guys are both the best in their divisions but it is "13 pounds" and GGG to me is the better fighter anyway.....If we are talking two weight classes and the same poundage (bar 1 pound)....Would anyone have wanted to see Ward v Canelo at 168 ???


I can't see a good fight but I've been wrong plenty of times..

If anyone can make a case for Brook I'd love to hear it ......Maybe even convince me to buy it because the jury is out on that one..

Herman Jaeger wrote:Yeah but this fight could do well over 2 million and that's down to the buzz surrounding GGG.

20-25million is what I'm guessing as the flat fee, good but not nearly enough considering Canelo's ratings may continue to plummet the longer he's seen to duck Golovkin fans already turning away from Canelo on social media even Mexicans

Like I said....GGG v Lemieux 150,000..........................Canelo v Khan 600,000......

GGG v Brook isn't PPV in the US........Surprising with the "buzz" surrounding GGG..

The difference with your Bruno Tyson comparison is that Tyson was expected to win. Golovkin is expected to beat Canelo and easily to boot

Yes Canelo is the A-side (hate that expression by the way,) so I'm in agreement with you he get's the bigger piece. But I think nearer 60-40 rather than the flat fee which would probably equate to 75-25 or 80-20 or maybe even less if sales went through the roof

Also Hoya was expecting over one million buys for Canelo Khan so 600k not that good and things could get worse the longer his boy ducks

Not a bad flat fee if that's the case hermy. I suspect Oscar meant he would make more than his best paid fight, not more than his career earnings... And the figure would be substantially less.

Whichever, re your point about Alvarez stock being likely on the slide... the worse it sells, the better (comparatively) the flat fee becomes... And the risk is all with goldenboy.

Clearly they would factor any such risk in before deciding their flat rate offer.

Not a bad fee would beat his previous best fight by some way but let me assure you one thing Canelo Golovkin sells big. Hoya knows it his marketing team knows it he ain't selling that title on the cheap. Should Golovkin accept it? Probably as he probably wins the fight fairly easily. Only guessing on the figure though milky it could be more than that for all we know

Herman Jaeger wrote:Also Hoya was expecting over one million buys for Canelo Khan so 600k not that good and things could get worse the longer his boy ducks

Mexicans in fairness are the best fans in Boxing......Loyal to their heroes...

I imagine many don't think he's ducking anybody..

It's a cutting your nose off to spite your face scenario really. Do you turn down a career high payday just because it's the short side of the purse? Probably, you take it, and take a little bit of your dissatisfaction about it into the ring.

I actually think ggg Canelo is potentially a great fight. Golovkin firm favourite obviously, but stylistically Alvarez matches up better than most... And he might have the power to keep golovkin honest. Might.

I refreshed my memory last night of a few of his wins and the scariest bit was how he just walked through anything the guys were throwing at him. Geale got done by a right hand counter, after his own right had landed. Opponents have pockets of success with no effect and then the relentless attack continues.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Herman Jaeger wrote:Also Hoya was expecting over one million buys for Canelo Khan so 600k not that good and things could get worse the longer his boy ducks

Mexicans in fairness are the best fans in Boxing......Loyal to their heroes...

I imagine many don't think he's ducking anybody..

I think a good proportion of Mexican fans would be cheering Golovkin. They haven't taken kindly to Canelo ducking out of fights and messing about with weight. Reminds me of when a load of Mexican ex-fighters came out in support of Pacquiao before he fought Oscar.

Depends if you think social media is representative of the whole or not Truss

A few Mexican legends have chimed in also with their disapproval wouldn't be good if Canelo's next fight did less than 600k hits

Maybe now it's got to the stage he needs Golovkin the longer he ducks the worse his numbers. Time will tell

Canelo gets a lot of flack.

Remember he is a fair bit off 30 and has shared a ring with, Floyd, Cotto, Mosley, Lara etc.

I think he will eventually fight GGG May 17.

I was thinking why would someone who basically knocks almost everyone out not be more popular.  Then I look at two of his fights and well he has a kind of boring style.  There is no ducking and weaving, he is quite static, he moves backwards and forwards pivoting on his feet with his head fairly level, he moves kind of slowly and menacing towards his opponent, closing down the space, he has fairly quick punch moves, and his fists and arms seem to be made of solid oak.  Sometimes it is a surprise to see his opponent get poleaxed by a punch that doesn't seem to travel very much.  It is a difficult style to categorise, efficient, slightly crablike.

AdamT wrote:Canelo gets a lot of flack.

Remember he is a fair bit off 30 and has shared a ring with, Floyd, Cotto, Mosley, Lara etc.

I think he will eventually fight GGG May 17.

A dogsh it version of Mosley, yeah, and he was way, way bigger than both Floyd and Cotto (Floyd outclassed him and he only beat Cotto because he dwarfed him - Cotto looked the better fighter).

I give him credit for taking on Trout and Lara at 154 but his approach to matchmaking hasn't been the same since Floyd sonned him.

You know the biz Haz. These A side fighters think they're the s**t! They think they call the shots.

I'm optimistic the Golovkin vs Canelo fight will happen next.

Canelo is like the personifiction of all the nonsense that plagues the current boxing climate. Inventing weight classes, avoiding fights, exploiting ridiculous weigh in rules and having judges in his pocket. Take away all that from him and you wonder how good he actually is.

It feels like they know the bubble will burst if he has to fight good fighters who he cant outsize and have the potential to flatten him. Clearly they have no confidence in him beating Golovkin. I wonder how much confidence they have in him even beating any other good middleweights? Would love to see someone like Andy Lee get the fight and detonate a right hook on him.

I think Brook should get in GGG's face (give him a shove or something) at the press conference.......All too friendly at the moment.....Get these loyal Brit fans looking for blood tomorrow and make GGG think he's entering a bear pit.....

A show of strength didn't do any harm for Jeffries against Fitzsimmons....

Maybe try to rile Golovkin up a bit hoping he makes a few mistakes....

At the moment there is an air of a condemned man drifting slowly to his execution !! ..........The Brit fans seem to love GGG...He's all smiles....Brook is very respectful etc......

The air of easy money to be made for the Bargy.....

Do not go gentle into the night.....Give GGG something to think about.....

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I think Brook should get in GGG's face (give him a shove or something) at the press conference.......All too friendly at the moment.....Get these loyal Brit fans looking for blood tomorrow and make GGG think he's entering a bear pit.....

A show of strength didn't do any harm for Jeffries against Fitzsimmons....

Maybe try to rile Golovkin up a bit hoping he makes a few mistakes....

At the moment there is an air of a condemned man drifting slowly to his execution !! ..........The Brit fans seem to love GGG...He's all smiles....Brook is very respectful etc......

The air of easy money to be made for the Bargy.....

Do not go gentle into the night.....Give GGG something to think about.....

Golovkin doesn't look the type to be fazed by a hostile crowd to be honest - nor by someone giving him a shove. Brook's confidence is more likely to make him think (Kell will be full of beans at the weigh in) - but even then, GGG is pretty unshakeable.

Never seen the guy fight in front of a hostile crowd.....Pump up the volume !!..Home advantage is one of the few things Brook has got going for him..

I don't look like the type that wears Womens clothes..

Personally I hate to see one boxer shove another if they haven't been disrespectful and I really can't see Brook doing something like that. You'd have to be a complete ti t do that without provocation. I do prefer a respectful head to head yes but can be enjoyable a fracas sometimes. No need for anything like that on this occasion though imo

It's not Brook's thing is it..

Still great to see a fighter with ambition..

Just seen a picture of Golovkin and he looks drawn....Looks rough..

Could be a bit of hope..

Probably jet lag!!!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It's not Brook's thing is it..

Still great to see a fighter with ambition..

Just seen a picture of Golovkin and he looks drawn....Looks rough..

Could be a bit of hope..

Must have killed him taking those two pounds off....

He looks like "Sh*t".......

But I'm not a historian..So what do I know.

What can't be ignored is the hypocrisy of the so called most avoided man in the world taking on a Welterweight, it really is gutter matchmaking from GGG as it was when Alvarez fought Khan.

I agree. It was Brook or nothing for Golovkin, though. Canelo had a fair few more options - including a mega-fight with Golovkin!!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He looks like "Sh*t".......

But I'm not a historian..So what do I know.

He looks like a fighter ready to make weight.

Brook looks like he's been fed from a rsehole to t it!

hazharrison wrote:I agree. It was Brook or nothing for Golovkin, though. Canelo had a fair few more options - including a mega-fight with Golovkin!!

No it wasn't...Plenty of fights at 168..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:I agree. It was Brook or nothing for Golovkin, though. Canelo had a fair few more options - including a mega-fight with Golovkin!!

No it wasn't...Plenty of fights at 168..

So there was someone ready and waiting with a pen when the Eubanks failed to sign?

As if he'll find fights any easier to come by at 168 when he does move up. It'll be the same old story.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:I agree. It was Brook or nothing for Golovkin, though. Canelo had a fair few more options - including a mega-fight with Golovkin!!

No it wasn't...Plenty of fights at 168..

I don't believe that his only option was a Welterweight, complete fanboy BS.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:I agree. It was Brook or nothing for Golovkin, though. Canelo had a fair few more options - including a mega-fight with Golovkin!!

No it wasn't...Plenty of fights at 168..

I don't believe that his only option was a Welterweight, complete fanboy BS.

Get back to me if you ever uncover what his other options were.

You're such a deluded and blind fanboy it's quite cute, sorry but fighting a relatively unproven Welterweight is not an acceptable fight for the supposed most avoided man in boxing. He's just as bad as Alvarez.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You're such a deluded and blind fanboy it's quite cute, sorry but fighting a relatively unproven Welterweight is not an acceptable fight for the supposed most avoided man in boxing. He's just as bad as Alvarez.

Oh aye, I'm a real fanboy. Not watching the fight, pulling for Kell to win but yeah, ruddy blind fanboy (shakes fist angrily).

Golovkin's a hypocrite after criticising Canelo for fighting Khan but I firmly believe this was his only option - certainly of a PPV fight. Canelo fights on PPV every time he's out. He could have fought Golovkin. Golovkin had to make do with what Hearn offered him after Eubank failed to sign (after Saunders, Jacobs etc. all looked the other way).

Maybe he should have sat this one out to satisfy internet trolls?

Gotta love it. Golovkin as bad as Avarez for fighting Brook, because, er Alvarez wouldnt take the fight.

catchweight wrote:Gotta love it. Golovkin as bad as Avarez for fighting Brook, because, er Alvarez wouldnt take the fight.

Trolling as usual. It's not like he has anything else to offer.

I'm surprised he didn't add: "and they said Floyd cherry picked!"

I am coming round to the view if Alvarez was told by his team to fight Golovkin he would.  But nowadays it is all about the money men ruling the roost with the money men not taking the risk of downgrading any cash cow they may have in their hands.  Mayweather was the master at extracting the most amount of money for the least amount of risk.

So the question is why is Golovkin such a poor sell?  My view is that he has a boring fight style and he is not a home boy from the US or UK or Mexico ... - so doesn't have a natural fan base based on mindless patriotism.

Looking forward to this. Love GGG real big fan.....not a fan of Brook so far in his career, think he can do so much better, and now is that time. He has the talent, speed, power and boxing ability. Yes he is stepping up from 147lbs, but he was MASSIVE at the weight and was never going to stay there. I see him easily as a LMW. He beats Canelo in my eyes.

The question should be answered this Saturday. Who is a hype job? Who is just a padded record?

Brook wins people say GGG is 34 and never fought any proper names.....

GGG wins people slate him for beating a welterweight....

Either way it's 2 world class fighters, both undefeated, both the best of their respective divisions (brook beats Thurman/Garcia/Porter any day of the week)....

The comparisons in the Khan fight are plain stupid. Khan was a lightweight. He is max a LWW at best. He fought Canelo who was a 160lbs champion at 155 who hydrates to over 170!!!! Not to mention he has been dropped bu lightweights and at 140 sparked out. You know one punch ends that.

GGG is fighting an equal sized fighter here in a hostile environment. Pressure is on.

Is Kell "Special" or is GGG just too good....I'm going with the latter.....GGG to stop him mid-late after a few awkward early moments.

Brooks best win is porter....who he had to grapple and bully to eek out a close fight....he can't do that to GGG

The pressure fighter he fought before that was Carson Jones who's a C class fighter who in the first fight almost beat Brook

I wouldnt call Golovkin a poor sell by any stretch. Or a boring style - although that horses for courses.

But if he was from the U.S or Mexico he would be ppv dynamite.

Nore Staat wrote:I am coming round to the view if Alvarez was told by his team to fight Golovkin he would.  But nowadays it is all about the money men ruling the roost with the money men not taking the risk of downgrading any cash cow they may have in their hands.  Mayweather was the master at extracting the most amount of money for the least amount of risk.

So the question is why is Golovkin such a poor sell?  My view is that he has a boring fight style and he is not a home boy from the US or UK or Mexico ... - so doesn't have a natural fan base based on mindless patriotism.

Poor sell? He's sold out each of his last few venues hasn't he? Which fighters today are more marketable than Golovkin aside from Pacquiao, Cotto and Canelo? I can't think of anyone.

Bit baffled on your view that his style is boring. I think his fights have become a bit monotonous as they play out the same way each time - he bullies the other guy from bell to bell. Very little intrigue.

I'm sure golovkin will have been able to find fights other than brook. But not one where someone is prepared to pay him shedloads... For the same date he was negotiating to fight Eubank for.

From a business perspective it was a no brainier... big money, low risk. Of course they were going to take it, it's a potentially short and dangerous career - you take the gift horses.

On the flip-side it leaves a guy - who already has a cv that doesn't reflect his ability - open to further criticism... Especially after Canelo Khan comments.

mobilemaster8 wrote:Looking forward to this. Love GGG real big fan.....not a fan of Brook so far in his career, think he can do so much better, and now is that time. He has the talent, speed, power and boxing ability. Yes he is stepping up from 147lbs, but he was MASSIVE at the weight and was never going to stay there. I see him easily as a LMW. He beats Canelo in my eyes.

The question should be answered this Saturday. Who is a hype job? Who is just a padded record?

Brook wins people say GGG is 34 and never fought any proper names.....

GGG wins people slate him for beating a welterweight....

Either way it's 2 world class fighters, both undefeated, both the best of their respective divisions (brook beats Thurman/Garcia/Porter any day of the week)....

The comparisons in the Khan fight are plain stupid. Khan was a lightweight. He is max a LWW at best. He fought Canelo who was a 160lbs champion at 155 who hydrates to over 170!!!! Not to mention he has been dropped bu lightweights and at 140 sparked out. You know one punch ends that.

GGG is fighting an equal sized fighter here in a hostile environment. Pressure is on.

Is Kell "Special" or is GGG just too good....I'm going with the latter.....GGG to stop him mid-late after a few awkward early moments.

Eddie Hearn loves you mobile. .

If losing to GGG makes Brook a hype job then it's a cruel world.

If GGG beating a welter proves anything well I'm lost for words..

milkyboy wrote:I'm sure golovkin will have been able to find fights other than brook. But not one where someone is prepared to pay him shedloads... For the same date he was negotiating to fight Eubank for.

From a business perspective it was a no brainier... big money, low risk. Of course they were going to take it, it's a potentially short and dangerous career - you take the gift horses.

On the flip-side it leaves a guy - who already has a cv that doesn't reflect his ability - open to further criticism... Especially after Canelo Khan comments.

Golovkin likes to fight and fight often. Chavez used to be the same. They had the date booked with HBO. If he'd turned down Brook and a PPV date - God knows who he'd have been left with? Another Adama no doubt. You have to feel it for guys like Rigondeaux and Golovkin who want to fight the best fighters but are unable to because the sport allows the likes of Canelo and Frampton to earn very well without having to face their top rival.

If anyone's unhappy because Golovkin's wasting his best years then blame all of the middleweights who refuse to get in with him. Alvarez, Saunders, Eubank, Jacobs all wants the fight.....after a couple more tune-ups...(translation: when Golovkin hits 40). It was the same story with Cotto, Martinez, Sturm etc.

I'm looking forward to when Golovkin moves up to 175, so we can all criticise Ward and Kovalev for taking on a middleweight (groan).

The thing that really gets my goat with this fight is that come Sunday morning, there'll be loads of people up and down the country moaning what a rip-off boxing is because they think they've paid to see World War 3. One of my pals texted me last week telling me it was going to be "a war, a classic".

Yep If GGG has made loads of money fighting stiffs blame everybody else....

Anyway let's move it on from the usual crap..

To the casual Hearn does do a job. The office at work todAy was fantastic.....one of the staff got chatting to a lad next to me asking if he was watching the boxing....the guy was like "yeh mate Brook on points all day".....to guy responds with "against the best p4p fighter the sport has ever seen?? I'll give you odds on 25/1 (I kid you not) that brook wins in any format minimum bet £50....you give me £50 and if brook wins I'll give you £1250 on Monday morning....."

Seriously.

Absolute. Seriousness.

I'm excited I like watching GGG he is known a just a puncher but he is a very cute boxer great footwork and cuts that ring off beautifully.

I also think brook has all the ingredients to be one of the best boxers we have had on these shores, just needs to prove it.

Roll on Saturday

Il stick 50 quid on Brook at 25/1 if your work mate is still offering......

Can anyone see GGG having a few more fights in the UK now? His profile will be huge here after the weekend. Once he's done with Brook fights with Eubank and Saunders would be huge and a promoters dream. Could even set up further down the line with Degale and even Groves if he has a belt. All would make bundles of money so the opponent despite avoiding him wound be very tempted, all would be on PPV too. Not saying these are the best fights out there for GGG but would be highly lucrative.

Neither Eurbank or Saunders will ever have the balls to fight him.

That said, it is getting silly now, GGG needs to ditch his pride & principles and start calling some bluffs - try make sub-160 catchweights (Lara, Charlos, Canelo).

People tend to forget Golovkin's age......34/35.......He's at a time when elite athletes are on the slide.....

Your body ages and despite nutrition and scientific training......Your body needs time to recover....You can't hold back Father time..

It's why soccer players in their thirties don't sell for beans...Van Persie 32 sold to Fenerbache for £3.8 million was it last year ??...because of his age....

Ticker isn't what it was...You become injury prone..reflexes are slower..

Larry Holmes (35) said after Spinks..."I saw the openings but my body was too slow to take advantage..."

Spinks knew it was time for Holmes...Just as Leonard knew it was time for Hagler (32)......Robinson started to lose regularly in his mid thirties....

Canelo, BJS, Eubank....Have time on their side....and they know it..

Golovkin doesn't !!....Worth remembering that..

Eddie hasnt really been talking up Brook's chances, or making this sound like anything other than the boxing equivalent of climbing Everest with a rhubarb stick and your boxer, which makes me believe the projected PPV sales are at the very least, pleasing. If GGG scores a highlight reel KO it's hard to see how he doesn't gain a bigger following. Which should lead theoretically, to the possibility of more UK fights

Provided he wins on Saturday I think he then fights Jacobs end of year with Canelo lined up for mid late 2017. So Eubank mid early next year in London? DeGale in 2018? Outside of Canelo, England's the place to be for Golovkin opposition wise earning wise good news for the British fans who enjoying watching this man in action

If the fight is explosive on Saturday and does good numbers then the sky ppv platform is something Loffler will want to get every ounce out of