Aviva Premiership - Round 17

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Table




Fixtures

Fri 18th Mar 16

19:45 Bath Rugby  v   Newcastle Falcons BT Sport


Sat 19th Mar 16

15:00 Harlequins  v   Worcester Warriors


Sun 20th Mar 16

13:00 Exeter Chiefs  v   Northampton Saints Sandy Park BT Sport
14:00 Wasps  v   Sale Sharks
15:00 London Irish  v   Gloucester Rugby
15:15 Leicester Tigers  v   Saracens BT Sport

GeordieFalcon wrote:Well Its down to Irish or Falcons.

Personally I think its time the league was ring fenced....this season...ie now.

I've been saying that for a while from a Wuss point of view but with no support!! I actually still think it's a good idea with a couple of additions from below. Give the 14 teams time to consolidate and grow and invest in their infrastructure. Tough on the teams that miss out though..

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Big game for Irish tomorrow. If they get nothing out of this one, I think they're down.

I have to agree, tomorrow is Poopie or bust for us. Win and get to within 1 win of Falcons and it's game on. Lose and I think confidence will be completely shot and fat lady will be starting to warm up.

stub wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Well Its down to Irish or Falcons.

Personally I think its time the league was ring fenced....this season...ie now.

I've been saying that for a while from a Wuss point of view but with no support!! I actually still think it's a good idea with a couple of additions from below. Give the 14 teams time to consolidate and grow and invest in their infrastructure. Tough on the teams that miss out though..

I agree

From our point of view we played our best rugby last season when London Welsh were down near the half way mark. We had nothing to fear and played some lovely rugby. This season we have gone back to dirge!

With a sealed 14 league team...all team would improve their rugby.

Or there would be nothing to play for after a couple of months and competition would fade. In a league system there's nearly always something to play for. I also think it's sometimes good for teams to go down, rebuild and then come back again.

I always thought it should be relegation every other season, based on a combined results from the two seasons

formerly known as Sam wrote:Or there would be nothing to play for after a couple of months and competition would fade. In a league system there's nearly always something to play for. I also think it's sometimes good for teams to go down, rebuild and then come back again.

I really don't see a problem in the American sports leagues. And none have relegation.

They have the draft system which helps the under performing teams rebuild and improve. Now I wouldn't be opposed to players having to play uni rugby and progress to the AP from there. Would mean that they wouldn't be exposed to the full physicality of top flight rugby until 21. Can't see how that would be brought in now though.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

stub wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Well Its down to Irish or Falcons.

Personally I think its time the league was ring fenced....this season...ie now.

I've been saying that for a while from a Wuss point of view but with no support!! I actually still think it's a good idea with a couple of additions from below. Give the 14 teams time to consolidate and grow and invest in their infrastructure. Tough on the teams that miss out though..

I agree

From our point of view we played our best rugby last season when London Welsh were down near the half way mark. We had nothing to fear and played some lovely rugby. This season we have gone back to dirge!

With a sealed 14 league team...all team would improve their rugby.

Yes, I think that's the thing, keep pushing hard for pride. And if the season is a bust then start to strategise for the next one. The established clubs would not support this because it threatens some of their hard won advantages. Not sure I'd like a draft though but then again not properly thought it through yet! Anyway GRAND SLAM!!

Because in the sealed Pro12 all the teams progress and improve...

formerly known as Sam wrote:Because in the sealed Pro12 all the teams progress and improve...

I dont think you can compare like for like in this instance. And to be fair, lower pro 12 teams like Connacht have improved in that league haven't they?

formerly known as Sam wrote:They have the draft system which helps the under performing teams rebuild and improve. Now I wouldn't be opposed to players having to play uni rugby and progress to the AP from there. Would mean that they wouldn't be exposed to the full physicality of top flight rugby until 21. Can't see how that would be brought in now though.

You hit a couple of good points here:
First the draft in American sport only helps good organisations which had bad years. It is common for poor organisations to remain poor and good organisations to remain good for extended periods of time. Yet the poor teams usually (with a few exceptions) usually battle it out to the end. Typically making a better match of it week by week than London Welsh during most of their two seasons in the Premiership.
It is an interesting question whether 18, 19, 20 year olds should be allowed to play in the Premiership. Based upon what i see in American Football, in a perfect world my answer would be no. There are always a few exceptions, but I think there is a big difference between playing men fully filled out and at the top of their game to playing within the 18-20 age group. The level of physicality is still that one level up in the Premiership. I would not be surprised, though I have no data at the moment, that players who start earlier get injured more often later on. This is one reason why the NFL limited the minimum age of players. I agree, I can't see how to bring that into the Premiership.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

stub wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Well Its down to Irish or Falcons.

Personally I think its time the league was ring fenced....this season...ie now.

I've been saying that for a while from a Wuss point of view but with no support!! I actually still think it's a good idea with a couple of additions from below. Give the 14 teams time to consolidate and grow and invest in their infrastructure. Tough on the teams that miss out though..

I agree

From our point of view we played our best rugby last season when London Welsh were down near the half way mark. We had nothing to fear and played some lovely rugby. This season we have gone back to dirge!

With a sealed 14 league team...all team would improve their rugby.

I agree.  LI have suffered from a perfect storm this year with just about everything going wrong that could but I think they have all the ingredients to be much better next year.  However if, as is more than likely, they go down you can expect to see yet another asset stripping like we have seen in recent years which started their downward slide.  

Of course the 'top' teams aren't likely to want ring-fencing as that would give the 'lesser' teams more chance to develop and challenge their position.

stub wrote:

Heaf wrote:PS I'm more annoyed that it messed me up on Superbru

Superbru?

prediction league ... I've won the premiership group I'm in for the last two seasons but this year has been going down hill lately (ironically) - on the plus side I've just won the 6N one ...

Heaf top teams? The top four teams in the AP have been in almost constant rotation. Tigers are the only consistent and currently it looks as though we may well miss out this year

The reason NFL teams play hard for the entire season is because the owners have a tendency to fire the general manager and head coach if they think they have under performed. I'm not sure I'd want a Black Monday scenario in the AP.

Stub, Connacht have improved recently but the Dragons and the two Italian teams are still awful. In fact this season there's been a general malaise in the Pro12, probably a RWC hangover.

formerly known as Sam wrote:The reason NFL teams play hard for the entire season is because the owners have a tendency to fire the general manager and head coach if they think they have under performed. I'm not sure I'd want a Black Monday scenario in the AP.

This is very true, I think. It always seems a quarter or a third of coaches are being let go, and many of the general managers, too. I never thought of it much but that would drive competitiveness. You think the reason we might not see that so much is there are more decent coaches available for each NFL position than the Premiership?

doctor_grey wrote:And Quins because yesterday I met a really pretty Quins fan in my office and had the joy of checking her knee for flexion and extension, over and over.  

How could Quins lose with so much at stake?  I certainly hope Quins failure does not effect a budding doctor-patient relationship.  Imagine finding a fine looking English Rugby fan over here?

doctor_grey wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:The reason NFL teams play hard for the entire season is because the owners have a tendency to fire the general manager and head coach if they think they have under performed. I'm not sure I'd want a Black Monday scenario in the AP.

This is very true, I think.  It always seems a quarter or a third of coaches are being let go, and many of the general managers, too.  I never thought of it much but that would drive competitiveness.  You think the reason we might not see that so much is there are more decent coaches available for each NFL position than the Premiership?

Unemployment would focus the mind a touch. I think it's in the American psyche to expect quick results. The commercial nature of their sport demands it. We seem a little more ready to wait and develop internally but the NFL doesn't think like that, everything is brought in and when not working sold off. There's no real club loyalty as we would know it.

But sure the coaches are that much more plentiful, the college scene certainly provides options but many who are fired on Black Monday quickly walk into jobs elsewhere. Chip Kelly having failed spectacularly at the Eagles was let go and then given another NFL job within a month.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Heaf top teams? The top four teams in the AP have been in almost constant rotation. Tigers are the only consistent and currently it looks as though we may well miss out this year

The reason NFL teams play hard for the entire season is because the owners have a tendency to fire the general manager and head coach if they think they have under performed. I'm not sure I'd want a Black Monday scenario in the AP.

Stub, Connacht have improved recently but the Dragons and the two Italian teams are still awful. In fact this season there's been a general malaise in the Pro12, probably a RWC hangover.

I was thinking more top half of the table and that kind of makes my point - why would they want more competition from the teams that are normally too busy worrying about relegation ...

What a try! We are competing for the ball well here.

Chiefs distinctly second best so far today.

Damn. Well done Chiefs.

Not sure why mallinder is moaning, clearly no try

nathan wrote:Not sure why mallinder is moaning, clearly no try

True but how the ref can say he's not looking at the ball?

nathan wrote:Not sure why mallinder is moaning, clearly no try

I disagree, Saints player did little wrong, thing they've been pretty hard done by there.

Wasps dealing out another wupping so far too

Looked a clear knock on to me?

Ozzy3213 wrote:

nathan wrote:Not sure why mallinder is moaning, clearly no try

I disagree, Saints player did little wrong, thing they've been pretty hard done by there.

It was a clear knock on, it went forwards off Gibson.

Wasn't given as a knock on. Exeter restarted with a penalty, referee appeared to indicate a player taken out in the air (I had the sound off).

As I previously said, it's still not a try.

Logo could be in trouble there

Bosch did dip a little but logo can't have any complaints there

Looked like the scrum should of gone the other way

Brown is having a great game

Bit meh from the Tigers, really needed to finish some of those plays off.

Sarries are being a bit slow to move at the rucks

Congratulations Irish!

Well its safe to say this weekend couldn't have gone much worse for us.

Pretty laughable that David Humphreys is trying to blame the ref for his team's defeat.

SirBurger wrote:Pretty laughable that David Humphreys is trying to blame the ref for his team's defeat.

Seems to be a lot of ref whinging from DORs this year, but I'm pretty shocked that I don't think I've heard cockers having a moan!

What with Goode off next weekend i can see Falcons getting relegated now.

Stanley is okay but doesn't have the clutchness Goode can have in a must score situation.

nathan wrote:

SirBurger wrote:Pretty laughable that David Humphreys is trying to blame the ref for his team's defeat.

Seems to be a lot of ref whinging from DORs this year, but I'm pretty shocked that I don't think I've heard cockers having a moan!

I think Mauger has said it's all about calm on the sidelines this season. Cockers normally wears his heart on his sleeve and to be fair there's more to complain about with our players than there is refereeing decisions.

Inaccurate performance from Tigers but we were in control for much of the game. If we'd been more clinical in the final third we could have got a TBP whilst Sarries were missing key players. At least we made sure they left with nothing.

Grand Slam Geordie

nathan wrote:

SirBurger wrote:Pretty laughable that David Humphreys is trying to blame the ref for his team's defeat.

Seems to be a lot of ref whinging from DORs this year, but I'm pretty shocked that I don't think I've heard cockers having a moan!

I know we've moaned about referees on here, but Tom Coventry has remained tight lipped on them which I am glad about.

Ozzy3213 wrote:

nathan wrote:Not sure why mallinder is moaning, clearly no try

I disagree, Saints player did little wrong, thing they've been pretty hard done by there.

Whether it was a penalty or not, Gibson clearly knocked on.

Ozzy3213 wrote:Wasn't given as a knock on.  Exeter restarted with a penalty, referee appeared to indicate a player taken out in the air (I had the sound off).

TMO said it was played in the air AND a knock on.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

nathan wrote:

SirBurger wrote:Pretty laughable that David Humphreys is trying to blame the ref for his team's defeat.

Seems to be a lot of ref whinging from DORs this year, but I'm pretty shocked that I don't think I've heard cockers having a moan!

I think Mauger has said it's all about calm on the sidelines this season. Cockers normally wears his heart on his sleeve and to be fair there's more to complain about with our players than there is refereeing decisions.

Inaccurate performance from Tigers but we were in control for much of the game. If we'd been more clinical in the final third we could have got a TBP whilst Sarries were missing key players. At least we made sure they left with nothing.

Real shame that the lineout was at times a shambles. Scrum so much better than at Allianz - helped by Brits not able to hook but equally unable to drive. Thacker clearly got the better of him at scrum time with some wonderful strikes of the ball.

SirBurger wrote:Pretty laughable that David Humphreys is trying to blame the ref for his team's defeat.

The man is a buffoon ... Glaws got away with murder constantly dropping the scrum 5m from their line and only getting a YC after the 5th time and then claiming they had no replacement so scrums went uncontested ... yeah right

Ozzy3213 wrote:

nathan wrote:

SirBurger wrote:Pretty laughable that David Humphreys is trying to blame the ref for his team's defeat.

Seems to be a lot of ref whinging from DORs this year, but I'm pretty shocked that I don't think I've heard cockers having a moan!

I know we've moaned about referees on here, but Tom Coventry has remained tight lipped on them which I am glad about.

Pretty sure I have heard Delaney moaning though.

LondonTiger wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:

nathan wrote:

SirBurger wrote:Pretty laughable that David Humphreys is trying to blame the ref for his team's defeat.

Seems to be a lot of ref whinging from DORs this year, but I'm pretty shocked that I don't think I've heard cockers having a moan!

I know we've moaned about referees on here, but Tom Coventry has remained tight lipped on them which I am glad about.

Pretty sure I have heard Delaney moaning though.

I doubt that greatly, as Delaney is not involved in matchday/playing affairs and is never interviewed after games. The only time I can recall him being interviewed by anyone this season is over the whole Andy Goode affair.

Heaf does enough morning about refs for the London Irish contingent

I only saw the first half of our game yesterday and the referee appeared to be doing ok. A lack of clinical edge from us however very nearly cost us that game. I have no idea how it was 10-10 at the break. I thnk they'd been in our 22 twice whilst if we'd taken even half the chance we'd created we'd have had 3 or 4 tries. We'll need to be a lot sharper in the next few weeks if we're going to pick up the wins we need to get above Falcons.