Faletau is the best number eight in world

Jonathan Davies' does it again

"At the moment Wales' Faletau is the best number eight in world. He's a total all-round player, as shown by his incredible stats in this Six Nations."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35765154

But I think I would have a few before him (K Reid for example)

Who is YOUR best No 8 in the world?

Its a totally subjective view and I'd also add that the stats depend very heavily on the way the player is being used. For instance I thought it was very interesting that for England vs Ireland Billy did very little work outside of carrying, because the carrying was doing a lot of damage. Other games hes done more tackling, especially choke tackles etc.

He isn't such an all rounder as Faletau or Parisse but then those guys fill a different kind a role.

I never understand the hype around Faletau.

He's the Chris Robshaw of number 8's. A great grafter he does all things pretty well but isn't out standing at any one aspect. He makes up for that by working harder then most and having a low error count. But he's no where near the beat in the world.

Yes he's a very good 8. But no he's not the best in the world.

Yeah but he plays for Wales yappy, that automatically means he's the best around

Look at AWJ, another where that rule applies

yappysnap wrote:I never understand the hype around Faletau.

He's the Chris Robshaw of number 8's. A great grafter he does all things pretty well but isn't out standing at any one aspect. He makes up for that by working harder then most and having a low error count. But he's no where near the beat in the world.

Yes he's a very good 8. But no he's not the best in the world.

I think that highlights why "best in the world" is usually a load of Love sacks because there are too many ways of defining what you mean.

BamBam wrote:Yeah but he plays for Wales yappy, that automatically means he's the best around

Look at AWJ, another where that rule applies

It goes without saying that any good player in the Welsh team is automatically world class. I don't know why anybody even bothers arguing with that.

Interesting that Guscott is predicting a Wales win. Must be a new type of "English arrogance" thing

where are the "incredible stats in this Six Nations" is he talking about ? I mean great tackling stats of course but the rest is pretty average. So depends what you want you N8 to do and it's almost impossible to have one doing great ball carrying and great tackling at same time.

I'd rather have a complete player in my team than a one trick pony.....

I judge him on what I see next year, but I have never understood all the hype that surrounds him.

Good yes, potentially to be really good/great again yes, but world class?

Just the latest Wales player to be called the best in the world.

He is the best no 8 ......... In the Wales squad
Just as billy is the best in the england squad
Read the best in the NZ squad
Stander the best in the Ireland squad........but playing 6 at the moment

On a serious note, the work that Toby does for Wales doesn't always show on his statistics...that whenever our scrum goes backwards, he can pick the ball off a retreating scrum, hold off the first defender long enough so Sam Warburton can get over the ball means Wales retain possession whereas in other teams that player gets turned over or a penatly gets given to the dominant scrum. Then you have his lineout ability, his solid ball carrying, his work rate, his tackling etc. Hes not the best in the world but put him in a black jersey instead of a red one and he'd get a lot more plaudits.

True Raven wrote:I'd rather have a complete player in my team than a one trick pony.....

And there is nothing wrong with that opinion at all.

Hell of a trick though.

True Raven wrote:I'd rather have a complete player in my team than a one trick pony.....

Same here, fortunately Billy can carry, tackle and pass, though some might see him as one trick due pony to his carrying being so much better than many other No8's

Well this discussion will never end well.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Well this discussion will never end well.

It doesn't help when J Davis says silly things like this in interviews :-)

I think you'll find Guscottt has said the same about Faletau being the number 1 - Its still subjective but all of a sudden Billy 3 games is the main man

RubyGuby wrote:I think you'll find Guscottt has said the same about Faletau being the number 1 - Its still subjective but all of a sudden Billy 3 games is the main man

We have a nice balance of Tools in the commentary box

Davis -Wales
Guscott - England
Wood - Ireland
Nicole - Scotland

Who is the French one to join this group?

And to parapharse a famous line

One Tool to rule them all, One Tool to find them,
One Tool to bring them all and in their ignorance bind them

Inverdale

Jeremy Guscott after the France game:

"The back-row switch will likely stick for the England game as Lydiate brought more balance to the back-row and his huge defencive shift allowed Taulupe Faletau to play with freedom. Faletau has, for a long time now, been world class and he proves that every time he goes on the field. At the moment he is probably the best 8 in the world.

The back-row battle will be explosive at Twickenham, in particular Faletau’s match-up against his cousin, Billy Vunipola, at the back of the scrum. For me, Faletau is ahead of Billy at the moment but when asked big questions of ‘how good are you?’ and ‘can you perform under pressure?’ Billy proves his quality.

We understand now he feels incredibly comfortable being coached by Eddie Jones and we are seeing the best rugby from him – yesterday’s display was immense against Ireland.

I remember Billy playing against New Zealand and he really stepped up and became a different animal when asked those questions and I think the same will happen against Wales. He knows that if a Lions team was picked today, Faletau would get the nod over him and he’ll be doing his best to make sure that selection is reversed after the game against Wales."

Riskysports wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Well this discussion will never end well.

It doesn't help when J Davis says silly things like this in interviews :-)

It's just his opinion, I don't get why people get hung up on what someone says.

A lot of scottish posters think Mark Bennett is the next great outside centre but that view may not be shared outside of Scotland and we heard before the six nations how Nel was the best tight head in Europe but none of it can be proven

NUMBERS NUMBERS NUMBERS OUT LEFT - NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

True Raven wrote:

Riskysports wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Well this discussion will never end well.

It doesn't help when J Davis says silly things like this in interviews :-)

It's just his opinion, I don't get why people get hung up on what someone says.

A lot of scottish posters think Mark Bennett is the next great outside centre but that view may not be shared outside of Scotland and we heard before the six nations how Nel was the best tight head in Europe but none of it can be proven

Nel was one of the the in form No3's in the world cup and has been playing well - No one said he is the best in the world - but he is playing better than most at this time

No-one has said that Mark Bennett is already there - they say he has potential and there is hope - which is very different from saying he is the best in the world

Saying someone has potential to be great - is very different from saying they are the best in the world

(and I know no Scottish fans think their players are the best in the world in any position)

RubyGuby wrote:I think you'll find Guscottt has said the same about Faletau being the number 1 - Its still subjective but all of a sudden Billy 3 games is the main man

Who has said Billy is the main man, apart from you? I don't recall him ding so well in the 606 poll, despite the number of English fans on this forum.

I think I see the problem here - people are mistaking Guscott and JD as 2 people with particularly useful and/or objective things to say about rugby. JD gets excited, squeaks a lot and says Wales are great. Guscott says whatever he dreamt about the night before, then goes off to check himself in the mirror.

Faletau is very much in the Robshaw mould. jack of all trades but master of none. Depending on the side this may be what you ned from your 8. Billy V has become one of the most destructive ball carriers in the game. Again depending on your side this may be more beneficial that an 'all rounder'. Would I currently sway Faletau for Billy V? No, England would loose far to much go forward.

Barney McGrew did it wrote:I think I see the problem here - people are mistaking Guscott and JD as 2 people with particularly useful and/or objective things to say about rugby. JD gets excited, squeaks a lot and says Wales are great. Guscott says whatever he dreamt about the night before, then goes off to check himself in the mirror.

The voice of reason at last - Cheers Barney, keep an eye on Cuthbert for me but feck Huw and Pugh and Dibble and Grub

Riskysports wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:I think you'll find Guscottt has said the same about Faletau being the number 1 - Its still subjective but all of a sudden Billy 3 games is the main man

We have a nice balance of Tools in the commentary box

Davis -Wales
Guscott - England
Wood - Ireland
Nicole - Scotland

Who is the French one to join this group?

And to parapharse a famous line

One Tool to rule them all, One Tool to find them,
One Tool to bring them all and in their ignorance bind them

Inverdale

Think I read somewhere that Castaignede would be the French rep this time - certainly easier to understand than Betsen (which I recall wasn't easy even for me when I was living in uk).

is Guscott wearing a scarf these days or not fashionable anymore?

wrfc

You raise a good point - the all rounder v the one trick pony can depend very much on what your side needs. Wales have Roberts and North who can run over players in the midfield, so need less of that from Faletau, who can therefore be the all round grafter. That he has reasonable ball-carrying power is shown by how effective he is picking up off a retreating scrum (although Billy V is even more effective in this position)

England haven't got the same midfield ball carrier in the backs (our back line generally being the sort to run round rather than through contact) and so having someone like Billy V available is more useful to us in 'winning' the contact off first phase ball (especially when we have the likes of Robshaw to do the all rounder jobs).

Of course there are very few real one trick ponies in international rugby - everyone can tackle to a reasonable extent, and do the required work if first guy in to the breakdown. Only exceptions I can think of are a few wingers (Ashton for one) who are only interested in being finishers and a few small scrum halves (Stringer for example) who can pass or kick but offer no sniping threat and have the defensive skills of a speed bump.

I agree with everything you've said Dummy_half but I've also come to the conclusion that if Billy had decided to play for Wales and Faletau chose England, peoples opinions on this board will be very different to what they are now....

True Raven wrote:I agree with everything you've said Dummy_half but I've also come to the conclusion that if Billy had decided to play for Wales and Faletau chose England, peoples opinions on this board will be very different to what they are now....

Yes. But that is also because the make up or style of the teams around them would have adjusted to make the most of them. The teams would be different.

We have been running the heavy duty carrying 8 for a while with Morgan and now Billy. We'd be a different beast with, say, a Beaumont or a Clifford.

True Raven wrote:I agree with everything you've said Dummy_half but I've also come to the conclusion that if Billy had decided to play for Wales and Faletau chose England, peoples opinions on this board will be very different to what they are now....

Cut the reasoned and balanced posting Raven, you are betraying your welsh roots

True Raven wrote:I agree with everything you've said Dummy_half but I've also come to the conclusion that if Billy had decided to play for Wales and Faletau chose England, peoples opinions on this board will be very different to what they are now....

Nah, Wales would still think they had the best No8 in the world, and England would agree that he was very good though not the best in the world.

Bath will bring back to Earth.

Oh dear another bitter Scot. You keep losing to Wales, get over it.

I bet he didn't think about a severance clause if they went down when he negotiated his contract.

He must be a getting worried.

Faletau is miles better a number 8 than the likes of Lobbe, Vermeulen, Reid or Pocock. Their six Nations stats are pathetic.

Not sure why a pundit is criticised so much for having an opinion. The usual childish remarks being thrown out by posters (BamBam yet again, for example). If Davies had said he thinks Billy V is the best 8 in the world at the moment a lot of you would be agreeing and saying he was speaking sense. But that opinion is no more correct than his opinion on Faletau. It's just an opinion. Davies likes what he sees. Others think Vermeulan is the best. Others Read (I tend to agree). Others think Billy V (the English Scott Quinell for me, which is a compliment as he was one of my favourite players of all time. Limited though). Who really gives a sh*t though? Hardly something that should elicit the old 'Wales banging on about world class players' horse sh*t that we have to read on every thread.

Griff wrote:Not sure why a pundit is criticised so much for having an opinion. The usual childish remarks being thrown out by posters (BamBam yet again, for example). If Davies had said he thinks Billy V is the best 8 in the world at the moment a lot of you would be agreeing and saying he was speaking sense. But that opinion is no more correct than his opinion on Faletau. It's just an opinion. Davies likes what he sees. Others think Vermeulan is the best. Others Read (I tend to agree). Others think Billy V (the English Scott Quinell for me, which is a compliment as he was one of my favourite players of all time. Limited though). Who really gives a sh*t though? Hardly something that should elicit the old 'Wales banging on about world class players' horse sh*t that we have to read on every thread.

I agree with you. It's not a fair criticism. It's his opinion and while many don't agree - some clearly do including Guscott.

The fact that both Jonathan Davies and Jeremy Guscott both annoy the living $hit out of me doesn't mean they don't have a point!

I read this the other day about the difference of Toby Faletaue v Billy Vuipola

This 6ns 2016.

Number of metres made.

Toby V Billy
46      207

Number of Carries

Toby v Billy
27       58

Turn overs conceded

Toby  v Billy
3         5

Number of Tackles made

Toby v Billy
51      27


So how can JD say toby is the best no 8 in the world based on those stat's'?

Is this a type of Welsh Arrogance?

Wales are yet to play Italy. Faletau may well make up the yards yet, and his tackle count is close to double. Apples and oranges my friend

nobbled wrote:Wales are yet to play Italy. Faletau may well make up the yards yet, and his tackle count is close to double. Apples and oranges my friend

What i an saying is that "IF" tOby was the best number 8 in the WORLD, then surely his stas would be higher than Billys.

Read si the best in the world

Parisse could have been

Faletau is the best in the NH. Lets see how he copes in the summer

Oh and Billy V is the best in the English press

some of them are unless you think ball carrying is the only aspect of rugby

majesticimperialman wrote:

nobbled wrote:Wales are yet to play Italy. Faletau may well make up the yards yet, and his tackle count is close to double. Apples and oranges my friend

What i an saying is that "IF" tOby was the best number 8 in the WORLD, then surely his stas would be higher than Billys.

They're a lot higher than Billy's stats depending on which you're looking at. So what (you're) saying is bonkers.

Gwlad wrote:Read si the best in the world

Parisse could have been

Faletau is the best in the NH. Lets see how he copes in the summer

Oh and Billy V is the best in the English press

You just cannot admit that you r Toby is not as good as you would like too think he is.

Why don't you check out Wales on line for the stats if you do not believe me...that is where i got the stats from.

Hope that puts a smile on your face Gwlad.

I rate Billy V as a carrying lump of an 8, a blunt instrument who can run in a straight line...probably explains why you identify with him

Its the difference between an American muscle car and a UK one; one is a lump that goes in a straight line, the other is a finely tuned athlete that handles superbly

Billy V has only 25 caps. He has no footwork, is not proven at the base of a scrum going back and is no where near being in Faletau's class as an all round player and defensive expert.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/truly-remarkable-statistics-suggest-taulupe-10892646

Have a look at that link majesticimperialman and then you'll see just why people in Wales rate Faletau so highly, we couldn't give a toss if people outside of Wales think he's overrated because the stats in the link will prove how vital and important he is to our team.

I've said it before but if he was a kiwi or South African people would be raving about him

Actually i am wrong i think Billy was in Taulupe's class in 6th form college

True Raven wrote:http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/truly-remarkable-statistics-suggest-taulupe-10892646

Have a look at that link majesticimperialman and then you'll see just why people in Wales rate Faletau so highly,  we couldn't give a toss if people outside of Wales think he's overrated because the stats in the link will prove how vital and important he is to our team.  

I've said it before but if he was a kiwi or South African people would be raving about him

The stats that are a result of him playing more games than the others.