PGA Tour: 35th Running of the Honda Classic: Notes from the Ballwasher

First topic message reminder :

1).Honda, the longest serving title sponsor of a PGA Tour event, announced this week they'd be extending their sponsorship thru' 2021, another tick-mark on Finchem's list of achievements. The tournament started life in the early '70's as the Jackie Gleason Inverrary Classic and has survived through thick and (plenty of) thin ever since.
It's noteworthy in the Ballwasher as the 1978 edition was the first US non-Major I'd ever paid attention to, an extraordinary come-from-behind win by Jack Nicklaus overhauling Grier Jones.

Three behind, Happy Jack chipped in on 14 from 80 feet, sank a 20-footer on #15 and chipped in again on #16. Then:
"He birdied 16, walked across water to number 17 and teed it up. All I've got to say is I saw the finest golf played today that I've ever seen played in my life," said Irwin, "The man's amazing."

On #17 he holed a 20-foot birdie and nailed his approach on #18 to within four feet and sank the putt.  
 
"It's the most remarkable thing I've witnessed in my life," said Trevino.

Even Nicklaus kinda liked it: "All of a sudden, I was ahead and I won. It was kind of neat. It was kind of fun."

Not sure what Grier Jones thought about it but he never won again, except as caddie on the Champions Tour for Gibby Gilbert. He's now a college golf coach in Kansas.

2).We'll return to the "Honda" later, but let's go back a week to the last "Northern Trust Open" at Riviera. The first mini-Major of the PGA Tour season? (Followed by Quail Hollow and Memorial for me.)
It certainly has all the ingredients, first and foremost a terrific course which attracts a strong field almost every year to a major-league city, LA.

3).The course first, which I reckon looks as interesting a design as there is on Tour.
Every year "TV" raves about the short par-4 10th hole and debate ensues as to its place among world-class short Par-4's. This year the green seemed a bit fairer, more receptive anyway, than last year when it was rock hard and looked borderline impossible. It seems like some "redefinition" of the bunkering and green surface is in the works. Hope so because a great hole should also be a fair hole.

4).Which is your favourite short Par-4?
The 17th at TPC Scottsdale?
The 15th at TPC River Highlands (home of The Travelers)?
Ian Baker Finch put his dibs in for a couple of holes at Royal Melbourne and Kingston Heath.
I like the 14th at Quail Hollow, more natural than the two TPC's.

5).Bubba Watson passed a kidney stone last Monday and passed 143 golfing chokers later in the week.
The recipe for his success was apparently not fairways, greens and a few putts, but "damn the fairways, just get the angle to the flag correct, even if you have to play from the rough,"; two fairways hit Friday, for instance, but signed for a 68. Then, no 3-putts, and hole everything inside five feet.
It won't work every week, but then again it doesn't have to; Bubba (and Dustin and JB and some others of their ilk) don't play every week. Rory will learn from Bubba's winning strategy; he played beautifully for 57.98 holes and then imploded, but he won't make that mistake at Riviera again.

6).Jordan Spieth, meanwhile, carded a 79 and the scribes ascribed his failings to tiredness.

7).The US media like the looks of the current Top 12 of their qualifying list for Ryder Cup action. Can't blame 'em there:
Spieth, DJ, Sneds, ZJ, Bubba, Fowler, Phil, Reed, Koepka, JB, Kisner, Duf.
That'll change, of course, plenty of time for Kuchar, Walker, Furyk, etc, etc to catch up if they're up to it. A number of candidates are dining at Jack Nicklaus's place this week; not sure how many but Billy Horschel (#24) is going. Jack must have a big table . . . . . . .

8).Young guns in their twenties won the first four events of the PGA Tour season, following domination in the Play-Offs by Day, Fowler and Spieth; but all but two (Spieth, Matsuyama) of the past ten winners have been old geezers in their thirties.

9).And so to the 35th edition of the "Honda Classic", back again at PGA National. It won't make me buy their cars, but kudos to Honda for their commitment to the Tour and six more years to come.
Last year saw five British or Irish players finish in the Top 6, with Luke Donald T7. Not optimistic that will be repeated, but good to see Fitzpatrick ("toothy" according to Rob Bolton - now, would he describe Woods as "toothy", wouldn't dare?), Sullivan and Lowry in the field. The wind will be up on Thursday and that'll make the "Bear Trap" extremely penal unless the Tour cuts the holes on #15 and #17 in sensible places, and no guarantee of that. Otherwise, another fine week in store.
PGA National has produced some memorable tournaments but my experience is that it's a rotten course for anything other than low handicap amateurs. For the pros it will all be about fairways and greens and who putts well on grainy Bermuda.

10).Finally, there was a mixed reception to the Tour's news that the East Lake "nines" would be switched for this year's Tour Championship. One school obviously prefers a challenging final few holes and 16, 17 and the Par-3 18th are certainly that.
But I would contend that "challenging" can sometimes produce sterile golf and finishing on a risk/reward reachable Par-5 seems to me a welcome injection of excitement for what can otherwise be a boring climax to the season.

Not heard about that sir B.

Presumably they have just bought more land (from augusta country club?) and will push the tee back. It is going to get to the stage where a slice takes out players on the 12th green.

I really don't care about course changes for the pro's as long as it is still possible to play the proper course for normal folks. But for AGNC "normal" people don't even get the chance. The only course changes to AGNC I want to hear about are when someone is commissioned to do the Dr Mac restoration.

If it stops piss take mid iron shots into a par 5 it can't be a bad thing. The Risk in risk/reward doesn't really exist if you can hit a 6 iron into the green.

ANGC is Spieth "proofing" the course.

Jason Bohn was not eating Steak/Lobster/Ice Cream at Jack and Barbara's house.

Everyone in the top 42 in the RC and playing Honda was there.

Except Patrick Reed (sick family member)
Zach Johnson (cited quick turnover of PM/AM wave)
Charles Howell  (ditto)
Ryan Palmer (tending to back injury)

And Dustin Johnson was there (but not playing Honda).

A lot of Missed cuts from the attendees, and guys near the top of consecutive cut streak ranking had their cut streak snapped.

CH-III, Rory, Reed, Piercy were all in the Top 10 who had their streaks snapped.

Colt Knost will be #6 in this ranking when it is updated on Monday.

Henrik Stenson has a big lead on Kuchar, but their streaks include a lot of tournaments without any cuts.  I think most of CH-III's tournaments are tournaments with a cut.

http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.122.html

Not many "journeyman" pros out there who plan their schedule as wisely as Colt Knost, Jason Bohn would be another one!

Fantastic front nine from Horschel after making birdies on his last two holes to make the cut on the number!

Obvious top five here: Sergio, Jimmy Walker, Rickie, Adam. And Vijay.

Donald, Molinari and Poulter all going the wrong way on moving day.

GPB,
Who is the shortish bald gent on the extreme left at Chez Jack? Not Scott Brown is it? Or the chef??
Oops, Not Scott Brown, he's got a beard and he's no Schwartzel. Must be the shoe-shine guy.

Veej playing like all 53-y-o's should.

Difficult not to agree with Billy Ho on this change as exclusively reported by sirbenson:

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/horschel-augusta-change-dumbest-thing-world/?cid=twitter-gc-a-horschel-augusta-change-dumbest-thing-world-022716

Better to overload the area round those trees Bubba takes it over with Miracle Gro . . . . . . . .

kwinigolfer wrote:GPB,
Who is the shortish bald gent on the extreme left at Chez Jack? Not Scott Brown is it? Or the chef??
Oops, Not Scott Brown, he's got a beard and he's no Schwartzel. Must be the shoe-shine guy.

Veej playing like all 53-y-o's should.

Pete Bevacqua, CEO of the PGA of America.

My guess is the PGAofA was footing the catering bill.

OK, Thanks, Didn't realise all the suits were there as well.

Should be a great finish tomorrow, McDowell back in form and Greg Owen leading Englishman. Not often each GB&I country goes into Sunday represented in the Top 25.

Off and running at PGA National. Conditions should be perfect for one of the early starters to post a low score with breezes picking up again by late morning.
Lots to play for, for a whole host of different reasons.
Hoping for a treat from Sergio and Adam . . . . . . .

Jaco Van Zyl being overtaken in South Africa, two strokes behind with four to play. Steve, son of "Mary", Surry earns himself another pay day.

GPB wrote:ANGC is Spieth "proofing" the course.

Jason Bohn was not eating Steak/Lobster/Ice Cream at Jack and Barbara's house.

Everyone in the top 42 in the RC and playing Honda was there.

Except Patrick Reed (sick family member)
Zach Johnson (cited quick turnover of PM/AM wave)
Charles Howell  (ditto)
Ryan Palmer (tending to back injury)

And Dustin Johnson was there (but not playing Honda).

A lot of Missed cuts from the attendees, and guys near the top of consecutive cut streak ranking had their cut streak snapped.

CH-III, Rory, Reed, Piercy were all in the Top 10 who had their streaks snapped.

Colt Knost will be #6 in this ranking when it is updated on Monday.

Henrik Stenson has a big lead on Kuchar, but their streaks include a lot of tournaments without any cuts.  I think most of CH-III's tournaments are tournaments with a cut.

http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.122.html

Except Patrick Reed (sick family member)
Zach Johnson (cited quick turnover of PM/AM wave)
Charles Howell (ditto)
Ryan Palmer (tending to back injury)

All couldn't make it to dinner, but Colt Knost hoovered up their steaks

McLaren wrote:Not heard about that sir B.

Presumably they have just bought more land (from augusta country club?) and will push the tee back.  It is going to get to the stage where a slice takes out players on the 12th green.  

I really don't care about course changes for the pro's as long as it is still possible to play the proper course for normal folks. But for AGNC "normal" people don't even get the chance.  The only course changes to AGNC I want to hear about are when someone is commissioned to do the Dr Mac restoration.

If it stops urine take mid iron shots into a par 5 it can't be a bad thing.  The Risk in risk/reward doesn't really exist if you can hit a 6 iron into the green.

It goes way beyond 6 iron. Last year Bubba was able to hit a wedge in to the green. I think you need to do something if a par 5 is being reduced to driver - wedge.

What would a Dr Mac restoration look like? Is is possible that in the 80 years since the legendary architect was active, golf course architecture has learned from the greats and moved on? My club is gradually re-introducing original MacKenzie features that had been lost, and I think that's great. It's obvious though that some of the original contouring on the greens is probably not appropriate given today's green speeds.

ray,
See the comments from Billy Ho that I posted yesterday evening!

That's a fabulous hole though, can't see that lengthening it fifty yards does anything for it whatsoever. If a handful of guys have the skillset to take on a risk/reward shot a la Bubba's and DJ's driving, more power to them.

Van Zyl will presumably be waiting in a departure lounge somewhere in S.A. as he awaits news of his owgr (Top 50 or not) fate, qualified for Doral or not.

Luke Donald off to a good start, just needs a dozen more birdies.

Jaco Van Zyl basically has to dodge two bullets as he tentatively moves to #49.


Donaldson passes him with a Solo 13th (very possible) 
GMAC would pass him with a two way T2nd or better.  (unlikely).

Senden has to win.

Given that both Garcia & Scott have questionable putting strokes I can envisage either if not both going backwards and as such have backed Woodland @ 250-1.

Whilst on the topic of punting I was looking at the odds for the Masters a couple of weeks ago and noticed that Scott & Woods were the same price at 33-1. Struck me as totally ludicrous so backed Scott.

No-one making much of a run, John Huh, Ryder Cup candidate or at least free dinner beneficiary, the best with a 66. Good for some Ryder Cup points, Huh.

Team Europe looking unlikely to repeat last year's fantastic finish, but good luck to Sergio and McDool.

Not going Gary Woodland's way so far Hibbz - a double bogey on 2 and already taken his trousers off once.

Yeah the slip is already on the betting shop carpet I think Kwini. I'm left to cheer on anyone but Dirty Garcia now.

Shane's expletive not deleted - apologies from NBC! Love it!!

Sergio not sharp with his irons, but scrambling is superb!

Donaldson making Van Zyl's evening a little more relaxed - see you in Miami Jaco.

Well done Adam - nice one

Is this the first example of an anchoring devotee winning with a normal putter?

Is nobody talking about Fowler choking, or do choking accusations only apply to Pubehead?

I think it is.  His strokes gained putting stats make for an interesting question or two..

This year he's ranked 50th, compared with 103rd, 55th and 158th for the 2013, 2014 and 2105 respectively.  So why anchor (and that of course also leads to asking if it's not providing an advantage, why go to the bother of banning it)?

Of course, on the other side of the coin..Keegan Bradley, Webb Simpson..

kwinigolfer wrote:ray,
See the comments from Billy Ho that I posted yesterday evening!

That's a fabulous hole though, can't see that lengthening it fifty yards does anything for it whatsoever. If a handful of guys have the skillset to take on a risk/reward shot a la Bubba's and DJ's driving, more power to them.

Call me cynical, but I think Billy Ho's view is based on the fact he hits the driver with a low ball flight and can't take it high over the corner, but still wants to be able to reach the green in 2! For most players, 13 is now 3 wood and 6 iron which is not a risky option. The risk/reward option is to cut the corner with the driver and leave yourself a wedge to the green. So either they recalibrate the hole as a par 4 or try and re-introduce the original challenge. I like the idea that players have to hit a perfect driver to put themselves in position to attack the green, or the drama of hitting a fairway wood or 2 iron over the stream.

Good win for Scotty, kept his composure and slender lead when the heat was on. It could have been a very different story had his tee shot on 17 dropped 2 yards shorter or 2 yards further right.

Was it a choke from Rickie? Was it a choke from Sergio to bogey 16 and 17? Dunno, it seemed a difficult course I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

ray,
No doubt. I just like it that Billy Horschel is prepared to rattle cages.
But it's a very slippery slope if the only answer to long hitters is to lengthen the course, any course.
If #13 turns into a drive and a lay-up for 90% of the field, it will become a very boring hole.

I think there's other ways to maintain the risk/reward element rather than lengthening.
Off the top of my head... how about putting a few magnolia bushes at the base of the pine needles to the right of the Fairway?

Kwini I agree, the drama exists because most of the field have to make a decision whether to lay op or not. But when you only have to hit a mid iron it's not much of a risk and it becomes boring too.

The problem with lengthening courses is that you have to assume that technology will continue to increase the distance players can hit the ball. So length gains in the last 20 years will be doubled in the next 20. Which means building ridiculously long and boring courses today to future proof them. The obvious conclusion is to do something about the ball. Athletics did it with the javelin, otherwise people would be throwing it out of the stadium by now.

Scott was really put under no pressure at all...Dull final day!

I suppose if Scott had to choose a top 20 player in the world to face head to head on the final day it would be Garcia!

Makes you wonder why Scott didn't switch back to the short putter sooner though - and how Sergio might have fared with a broomstick!

Confirmation that Thongchai Jaidee is missing the Cadillac - present day Doral not exactly designed for Thongchai.
69th last year, though finished 6th behind Patrick Reed in 2014.

I missed pretty much all the Honda action, apart from some of Rory's horror show. But quite a few of the Masters likely contenders were in action and I would be interested to hear who people think are the players in form and likely to contend come Masters week?

(PS Big Shane looking a little out of sorts!)

Based on what I have seen the last two weeks, I would say Bubba and Adam should be the favorites for ANGC.

Looking at the Ryder Cup standings for both US and Euro, I noticed Freddie Jac was 21st in the World Point list for the Euro Team.

I don't remember him joining the Euro Tour.

Courtesy of Robo in another blog

Active PGATour players (and their age) with 5 or more PGAT wins (number of '+' indicates wins in this decade)

79 - Tiger Woods (40) ++++++++
42 - Phil Mickelson (45) +++++
34 - Vijay Singh (53)
21 - Davis Love III (51) +
19 - Ernie Els (46) +++
17 - Jim Furyk (45) ++++
13 - David Toms (49) +
13 - David Duval (44)
12 - Steve Stricker (49) +++++
12 - Justin Leonard (43)
12 - Zach Johnson (40) ++++++
12 - Adam Scott (35) ++++++
11 - Rory McIlroy (26) +++++++++++
9 - Stuart Appleby (44) +
9 - Bubba Watson (37) +++++++++
9 - Dustin Johnson (31) +++++++
8 - K.J. Choi (45) +
8 - Mike Weir (45)
8 - Geoff Ogilvy (38) ++
8 - Sergio Garcia (36) +
8 - Brandt Snedeker (35) +++++++
7 - Retief Goosen (47)
7 - Matt Kuchar (37) +++++
7 - Justin Rose (35) +++++++
7 - Jason Day (28) +++++++
7 - Jordan Spieth (22) +++++++
6 - Padraig Harrington (44) +
6 - Stewart Cink (42)
6 - Ben Crane (39) +++
6 - Rory Sabbatini (39) +
6 - Bill Haas (33) ++++++
6 - Hunter Mahan (33) +++++
5 - John Daly (49)
5 - Billy Mayfair (49)
5 - Mark Wilson (41) +++
5 - Jonathan Byrd (38) ++
5 - Luke Donald (38) +++
5 - Carl Pettersson (38) ++
5 - Jimmy Walker (37) +++++
5 - Nick Watney (34) +++

And here is a list of active players with 2, 3, 4 wins on the PGATour and won a tournament since Jan 2010.

4 wins
Dufner Moore Reed Holmes Kirk Simpson Villegas Gay Austin Stenson Curtis MBradley Slocum

3 wins
Taylor Hoffman Piercy Henry Stallings Kaymer Cabrera Horschel Fowler Laird McDowell Wagner KBradley Baddeley Glover Clarke Palmer Beckman Kim Weekley

2 wins 
Matsuyama Every Bowditch Gomez English Henley Senden Streelman T.Clark Points Bae Blixt Woodland McNeill Poulter Bohn Westwood

Agree about Scott and Watson as in top form going towards Augusta. And add Oosthuizen. But others will enter the discussion these next few weeks - looking forward to seeing how Justin Rose fares as he's surely due to contend again. And Spieth won't go away. Top ten in the owgr's as strong as you'll ever see it.

Very surprising (especially to this advocate of following Florida guys on "Bermuda") that not many local boys fared well this week . . . .

And: Anyone seen anything about Tim Clark recently - awol for five weeks after a decent result in Hawaii?

Kwini

Can Timmy Clark even hold a putter now?


So no one seeing a Rory win at the Masters?

Clark missed the Cut in Palm Springs, but yes, he has been AWOL since then.

Looks like Jaco is not going to play Cadillac

Hadn't seen that GPB, shame to hear that, but perhaps he'll be well prepared to strut his stuff at the MatchPlay. And Augusta?


Mac,
Clark had a T13 finish in Hawaii so draw your own conclusions. He's had so many physical issues these past few years, another career likely to be ruined by health problems.

I ran across this newspaper article written by a pro golfer from years ago.

Any idea who might have penned the article and when?

http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/3256/7937/original.jpg

I redacted the clues to the author but you can tell by the picture, the article is quite old.

This part of the article is "Nostradamus-esque"

HallofFame Golfer wrote:If you think tournament golf is fast today, just wait a few years and see what happens.

Television and mass instruction are on the way. When such instruction becomes a reality watch new stars from whistle-stop towns not even listed on Rand McNally.

Late 40's?
No idea by whom. Byron Nelson?? Demaret??

I thought the Honda was brilliant. The sky commentary over NBC's(?) coverage was a good mix. The coverage is so much better with the shot tracer and the wind graphic - makes you realise how good these guys are. I was disappointed with Sergio seen as it was his ball striking that let him down. But at the same time, I was very impressed with Scott. Two great tee shots on 17 Saturday and Sunday won it for him. Stood up and hit it like a man when it counted.

Re the Ryder Cup crisis meeting at Jack's - I thought the golf channel raised a good point... no Justin Thomas??

I think that supper at Jack's Diner was for something like the leading 42-ish available - Thomas stood 45th on the points list. But he'd also won a tournament (which didn't qualify for the RC Qualifying!).

We've had the debate before about qualifying guys for a match play competition (RC) based on performances in stroke play. Justin Thomas is a case in point - my gut tells me that he'd do very well in match play - he looks to have a great game but is held back in stroke play as he goes off the rails for short spells, which is clearly not such an issue in match play (you can only lose the hole once, and it doesn't matter by how much). That said, the standards are so high, maybe the team can be filled with guys with great games who never go off the rails.....

It almost seems as if Thomas's omission was inadvertent - he's certainly on Davis Love's radar as he's chosen to partner him in the first two rounds of at least one tournament this year.
Difficult to say which Americans would be good at MatchPlay as, when the heat is on, at least in Ryder Cup play, most of those not named Johnson have been found wanting. Observing Thomas live and on TV, I'm not sure that he doesn't let bad holes linger a bit. Helluva talent though.

GPB wrote:I ran across this newspaper article written by a pro golfer from years ago.

Any idea who might have penned the article and when?

http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/3256/7937/original.jpg

I redacted the clues to the author but you can tell by the picture, the article is quite old.

This part of the article is "Nostradamus-esque"

HallofFame Golfer wrote:If you think tournament golf is fast today, just wait a few years and see what happens.

Television and mass instruction are on the way. When such instruction becomes a reality watch new stars from whistle-stop towns not even listed on Rand McNally.

Interesting article, thank you for posting it. The fears of the authors (kwini's guess better than mine would be) fears seem rather odd to me but then I wasn't around in late 40's America.

Why would you worry about folks from tiny hamlets getting access to golf instead of the huge inner city populations which even now don't have access to golf?

Wasn't golf back then mostly played in country clubs in small to medium sized towns and not in the bigger cities?

Or was it a dog whistle type article that was really voicing fears that hillbillies and other unsavory types my soon be teeing it up next to you?

Mac, everyone has access to golf, just as they do to virtually every other sport.

super

I am not sure that many people living in the thick of New York, Detroit, Chicago etc in late 40's/50's America had access to golf.

My point was that the author was worried about a rather small demographic suddenly having access to good golf tuition, and that golf clubs of the day were in relatively small well to do towns (suburbs?).

I also detected a hint of anxiety from the author about these people playing the game that was not related to whether or not they would start to beat him but rather that they were playing the game at all.

Kwini

The Honda monday qualifying may not have equaled that weeks European tour field but the Seminole Member-pro should definitely have more OWGR points on offer than this weeks European tour event. (Well they don't actually have an opposite event to the WGC but you get the point).

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/rose-banker-win-seminole-pro-member/?cid=twitter-gc-a-rose-banker-win-seminole-pro-member-022916

kwinigolfer wrote:It almost seems as if Thomas's omission was inadvertent - he's certainly on Davis Love's radar as he's chosen to partner him in the first two rounds of at least one tournament this year.
Difficult to say which Americans would be good at MatchPlay as, when the heat is on, at least in Ryder Cup play, most of those not named Johnson have been found wanting. Observing Thomas live and on TV, I'm not sure that he doesn't let bad holes linger a bit. Helluva talent though.

Yes, he's clearly in different form than most of the peripheral guys who attended and then he went on to finish 3rd to boot. Suppose there's always got to be a cut off but at the same time there's always that 1 guy who makes captains look silly, e.g. Billy Ho. 

Thomas did loose his way a bit near the end and looked a bit huffy but a team environment could be a good curer for that.

Re American Matchplayers - As good as it was to see Dufner back to form this season I do think it's a bit of an oh-ho moment for us europeans. For all the hype around Phil and Keegs at Medinah I thought Duf was the most impressive member of the US team that year.

Whilst we are on the RC - I'd imagine the players union would never allow the RC to be played at PGA National. Imagine having the RC on the line teeing it up at 17... You'd ruin careers!

Picking based on matchplay might not even work for the Americans. Just take woods as an example, on paper probably one of the best matchplay players of all time but on here he is mocked for his fourball and foursome records.