Six Nations 2016 Wales vs Scotland

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Wales v Scotland

4:50pm - Saturday the 13th of February 2016

Principality Stadium, Cardiff

Teams

Wales
15 Liam Williams
14 George North
13 Jonathan Davies
12 Jamie Roberts
11 Tom James
10 Dan Biggar
9 Gareth Davies
1 Rob Evans
2 Scott Baldwin
3 Samson Lee
4 Luke Charteris
5 Alun Wyn Jones
6 Sam Warburton (c)
7 Justin Tipuric
8 Taulupe Faletau

Reps: Ken Owens, Gethin Jenkins, Tomas Francis, Bradley Davies, Dan Lydiate, Lloyd Williams, Rhys Priestland, Gareth Anscombe

Scotland

15. Stuart Hogg
14. Sean Maitland
13. Mark Bennett
12. Dunc Taylor
11. Tommy Seymour
10. Finn Russell
09. Greig Laidlaw (c)

01. Alasdair Dickinson
02. Ross Ford
03. Willem Nel
04. Richie Gray
05. Jonny Gray
06. John Barclay
07. John Hardie
08. David Denton

Reps: McInally, Reid, Fagerson, Swinson, Cowan, Hidalgo-Clyne, Weir, Lamont



Referee is unfortunately George Clancy (IRFU) which ruins the game generally.

Touch judges: John Lacey (IRFU) & Federico Anselmi (UAR)

TMO: Graham Hughes (RFU)

I thought Tupiric was a bit 'meh' against Ireland - he did well chasing down that kick but wasn't as much as a standout in the traditional 7 tasks.

For me he's a little lightweight to be fully effective at the rucks at International level, instead relying on his speed and athleticism to get there first.

He is an outstanding athlete though and I'd certainly rather face Dan Lydiate than him on Saturday.

RiscaGame wrote:

True Raven wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Every great flyhalf, wilkinson included, all missed more than they got. No matter how much they practice.

Do you have any evidence for this?

I doubt it as I'm still waiting to hear where he got his turnover stats from. Even if this was true about Wilkinson, does it makes RP a decent international fly-half? The answer is a resounding no.

I'm sure I heard Warburton had two turnovers and tipuric had none.  I could have misheard though.  However, Tupiric is not just in the team for his turnover ability, the guy is everywhere, it was him who got to Trimble which led to the scrum which Faletau got his try

On Chum V, I believe they said Warburton caused two turnovers. One was undoubtedly when he counter rucked and we gained a penalty.

I think it's brilliant how everybody (particularly the Scots) are talking down their team so much on here.

Why would we talk them up?
We've lost our last 8 6Nations games. Lost the last 8 games in a row v Wales.
And haven't won in Cardiff since 2002

Because it seemed to be a fairly common thought process that Scotland had a better RWC. Because Scotland are fairly settled in their patterns, whilst Wales are allegedly changing. Because we are missing our best fly half and currently our most key player (I believe Russell will be much better this week too) and also we have two 9s in our 23, who both had pretty poor games and could probably be got at. I also believe you'll target our scrum. Lots of things to be positive about.

As the great Lyn Jones said about our trip to Gloucester, records are there to be broken.

True Raven wrote:

EST wrote:I am finding it really difficult to get up for this game, I honestly can't see beyond a comfortable win for Wales.

It’s interesting that this current Scotland team struggle when they pull on a Scotland shirt.  By talent, this is comfortably the best group of individuals since 1999, yet the same old mistakes reappear.  Yes, there are mitigating circumstances: many players coming back from injury, poor form for their clubs, perhaps a WC hangover.  However, there seems to be much less of a disparity in class when playing for their clubs against Irish and Welsh teams.  Are Irish/Welsh players playing well below themselves in the Pro12? Do the Scotland players have an ingrained inferiority complex when they pull on the thistle?  

The pro12 is not a breeding ground for international players. Gatland has to whip the players in shape when they first meet up as they're not ready for international rugby and undercooked.  So Glasgow playing well inthe pro12 will not automatically translate to Scotland playing well.

This young scotland team needs games at international level together playing top teams, wins won't come immediately but they will eventually.  

I agree to a point, the team is inexperienced and game time at international level will lead to more competitive performances. However, my points remain. The majority of these players are generally competing at the same level week in week out and by in large operating at roughly the same standard, yet there is a very obvious gulf in class when they go against each other internationally.

In most of these games, it is simple errors compounded together that loses them games; see countless dropped high balls, poor ball retention when rucks have already been won, losing key lineouts when it matters - with each of these mistakes momentum and field position is lost. These are core skills which they execute against the same players in the league, week in week out. To me, that is symptomatic of a team with an inferiority complex and who have mentally already lost the game. Scotland, collectively, need to develop a much harder edge.

RiscaGame wrote:Because it seemed to be a fairly common thought process that Scotland had a better RWC. Because Scotland are fairly settled in their patterns, whilst Wales are allegedly changing. Because we are missing our best fly half and currently our most key player (I believe Russell will be much better this week too) and also we have two 9s in our 23, who both had pretty poor games and could probably be got at. I also believe you'll target our scrum. Lots of things to be positive about.

As the great Lyn Jones said about our trip to Gloucester, records are there to be broken.

In my mind Wales had just as good, if not a better world cup given the group they got out of and their performance against SA.

There is also a hell of a lot of experience still in that Welsh team! I will be happy to see Bigger not playing though (wishing him well with his injury of course)

Wales are most probably the most experienced (cap wise) team in the tournament but that doesn't mean a thing if those players can't take 2 on 1s or know when to pass rather than try to run through a player.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Wales are most probably the most experienced (cap wise) team in the tournament but that doesn't mean a thing if those players can't take 2 on 1s or know when to pass rather than try to run through a player.

ironically, that's what they should have gained by experience.....

True Raven wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Wales are most probably the most experienced (cap wise) team in the tournament but that doesn't mean a thing if those players can't take 2 on 1s or know when to pass rather than try to run through a player.

ironically, that's what they should have gained by experience.....

Yeah you like to think so.

The press are reporting that Biggar's injury isn't too bad and Wales won't rule him out of selection for Saturday. Personally, I wouldn't play him just to rest him for the France game in two weeks where he should be back them to 100%

Agree. I sure he has been in his chambers and scrum v said he is in a moon boot, but there's no need to risk further injury.

True Raven wrote:The press are reporting that Biggar's injury isn't too bad and Wales won't rule him out of selection for Saturday.  Personally, I wouldn't play him just to rest him for the France game in two weeks where he should be back them to 100%

We could name him then not pick him, that way the Scots can scream foul play and gamemanship as well like the Irish did

True Raven wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Wales are most probably the most experienced (cap wise) team in the tournament but that doesn't mean a thing if those players can't take 2 on 1s or know when to pass rather than try to run through a player.

ironically, that's what they should have gained by experience.....

Was sat in among the Munster fans which was very interesting to say the least and even they were questioning why we didn't seem able to take the chances we had, which they were obviously grateful for.

2 on 1s, 3 on 2s etc should be the basic skill set any back at this level should be able to execute but it wasn't happening Sunday.

I still think Roberts and JD are our best combo but having someone such as Scott Williams (when fit) to come of the bench is vital.

Scott Williams offers something the other 2 don't and he is the best at seeing the gap in the defence and using the overlap. No mean defender as well - I think he's at least as good as JD and Doc but offers something different - he has more guile:thumbsup:

RubyGuby wrote:Scott Williams offers something the other 2 don't and he is the best at seeing the gap in the defence and using the overlap.

I agree with the first bit, but he's been guilty of ignoring overlaps himself. Remember 2012, when he ignored Halfpenny outside him at Twickenham?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Scott Williams offers something the other 2 don't and he is the best at seeing the gap in the defence and using the overlap.

I agree with the first bit, but he's been guilty of ignoring overlaps himself. Remember 2012, when he ignored Halfpenny outside him at Twickenham?

Caps Trys

Doc 75 9
Fox 49 10
SW 34 9

0

No offence, but that doesn't say anything about Scott Williams's tendency to ignore overlaps.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:No offence, but that doesn't say anything about Scott Williams's tendency to ignore overlaps.

No offence taken I think he made up for that error in that game

Just as well!

Team announced tomorrow..?

Delayed a day for Biggar.

RiscaGame wrote:Delayed a day for Biggar.

So Thursday?

Yeah it's only under 20s and women announced tomorrow

Cheers

I guess the thinking is that the team won't change much depending on Biggar...?

Without Biggar (or perhaps with Priestland, whichever way you look at it) Wales aren't the same side, if he's not there it could have a huge bearing. That said Priestland wasn't bad last week at all.

I think there'll be a strong Scotland performance, and I'd like to see a bit more from Finn Russell, I know being relaxed is part of his game and it's nice to see him enjoy it but seeing him grinning after his howler and after the game was hard to stomach, especially given the price of tickets for the matches.

123456789 wrote:Without Biggar (or perhaps with Priestland, whichever way you look at it) Wales aren't the same side, if he's not there it could have a huge bearing. That said Priestland wasn't bad last week at all.

I think there'll be a strong Scotland performance, and I'd like to see a bit more from Finn Russell, I know being relaxed is part of his game and it's nice to see him enjoy it but seeing him grinning after his howler and after the game was hard to stomach, especially given the price of tickets for the matches.

No more from me on RP.Rather,did your Kelly Brown retire from international rugby or was he not selected.Every time I see him play for Saracens he seems as good as he ever was.Also,who of your boys would you say was on really good form and those that aren't yet.

123456789 wrote:Without Biggar (or perhaps with Priestland, whichever way you look at it) Wales aren't the same side, if he's not there it could have a huge bearing. That said Priestland wasn't bad last week at all.

I think there'll be a strong Scotland performance, and I'd like to see a bit more from Finn Russell, I know being relaxed is part of his game and it's nice to see him enjoy it but seeing him grinning after his howler and after the game was hard to stomach, especially given the price of tickets for the matches.

Priestland doesn't have the kicking game or the aerial game Biggar does but that is possibly overshadowed by the manner that he seems to get a backline moving easier than Biggar.

He isn't as mentally tough as Biggar and that is our worry about him. It would be great to see him play with a smile, haven't seen that in a while

exile jack wrote:

123456789 wrote:Without Biggar (or perhaps with Priestland, whichever way you look at it) Wales aren't the same side, if he's not there it could have a huge bearing. That said Priestland wasn't bad last week at all.

I think there'll be a strong Scotland performance, and I'd like to see a bit more from Finn Russell, I know being relaxed is part of his game and it's nice to see him enjoy it but seeing him grinning after his howler and after the game was hard to stomach, especially given the price of tickets for the matches.

No more from me on RP.Rather,did your Kelly Brown retire from international rugby or was he not selected.Every time I see him play for Saracens he seems as good as he ever was.Also,who of your boys would you say was on really good form and those that aren't yet.

Brown fell out of favour a few years ago and most Scots couldn't fathom why he wasn't being picked - especially over the likes of Strokosh and Wilson who were being picked. There were rumours of Scott Johnson influence - just like what happened with Barclay.

For years he was picked at 7 despite not really being a 7 - he did a reasonable job but would have been much more suited at 6.

He's getting on a bit now so I think his time is gone. It's a shame his career ended in such a bad way though.

RDW,thanks.Yes,it's a shame because Brown is a prominent player in an impressive Saracens pack.I think Barclay,together with Tommy Bowe,are amongst the best of all the imports into Welsh regional rugby so his absence from the Scotland team was just plain odd.

exile jack wrote:RDW,thanks.Yes,it's a shame because Brown is a prominent player in an impressive Saracens pack.I think Barclay,together with Tommy Bowe,are amongst the best of all the imports into Welsh regional rugby so his absence from the Scotland team was just plain odd.

I seem to remember Nikki Walker being alright for the Ospreys?

123456789 wrote:Without Biggar (or perhaps with Priestland, whichever way you look at it) Wales aren't the same side, if he's not there it could have a huge bearing. That said Priestland wasn't bad last week at all.

I think there'll be a strong Scotland performance, and I'd like to see a bit more from Finn Russell, I know being relaxed is part of his game and it's nice to see him enjoy it but seeing him grinning after his howler and after the game was hard to stomach, especially given the price of tickets for the matches.

I think we have to accept that sort of thing with a player like Russell, and whatever we do we want to bring back some enjoyment into the back play in Scottish rugby. Yes, he should have looked before putting boot to ball as Hogg was running a good supporting line but I can live with a wry smile. I was also pretty relieved because England were on the charge at that point and the interception and kick relieved the pressure. Yes, we could have had more from the situation, but he just didn't see Hogg. I don't think it means that he doesn't want to win.

Anyway, have you seen his bird? Can't blame the lad for failing to suppress a smile.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

exile jack wrote:RDW,thanks.Yes,it's a shame because Brown is a prominent player in an impressive Saracens pack.I think Barclay,together with Tommy Bowe,are amongst the best of all the imports into Welsh regional rugby so his absence from the Scotland team was just plain odd.

I seem to remember Nikki Walker being alright for the Ospreys?

And Tia Tia too and Marty Holah wasnt bad either.

maestegmafia wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

exile jack wrote:RDW,thanks.Yes,it's a shame because Brown is a prominent player in an impressive Saracens pack.I think Barclay,together with Tommy Bowe,are amongst the best of all the imports into Welsh regional rugby so his absence from the Scotland team was just plain odd.

I seem to remember Nikki Walker being alright for the Ospreys?

And Tia Tia too and Marty Holah wasnt bad either.

I reckon your greatest import or showcase at least for Welsh rugby was Percy Montgomery.

He said in his book that Newport transformed him from a semi-pro sometimes great, sometimes dire player into a professional world cup winner. Those sand dunes fitness work was the toughest he ever encountered. Went to newport, transformed and then returned to SA rugby and won the world cup... better example for me than any merc who moved because he was no longer good enough in his home country.

fa0019 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

exile jack wrote:RDW,thanks.Yes,it's a shame because Brown is a prominent player in an impressive Saracens pack.I think Barclay,together with Tommy Bowe,are amongst the best of all the imports into Welsh regional rugby so his absence from the Scotland team was just plain odd.

I seem to remember Nikki Walker being alright for the Ospreys?

And Tia Tia too and Marty Holah wasnt bad either.

I reckon your greatest import or showcase at least for Welsh rugby was Percy Montgomery.

He said in his book that Newport transformed him from a semi-pro sometimes great, sometimes dire player into a professional world cup winner. Those sand dunes fitness work was the toughest he ever encountered. Went to newport, transformed and then returned to SA rugby and won the world cup... better example for me than any other merc who moved because he was no longer good enough in his home country.

My merc I guess you mean mercenary. Not sure how you can distinguish a difference between Percy's reason for heading to Newport compared to any other foreign player playing abroad anywhere else in the world. Mercenary seems a touch harsh in the case of club rugby. Maybe different when you talk international rugby.

Best player I have seen at a region from outside of Wales was probably Regan King at his best.

maestegmafia wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

exile jack wrote:RDW,thanks.Yes,it's a shame because Brown is a prominent player in an impressive Saracens pack.I think Barclay,together with Tommy Bowe,are amongst the best of all the imports into Welsh regional rugby so his absence from the Scotland team was just plain odd.

I seem to remember Nikki Walker being alright for the Ospreys?

And Tia Tia too and Marty Holah wasnt bad either.

I reckon your greatest import or showcase at least for Welsh rugby was Percy Montgomery.

He said in his book that Newport transformed him from a semi-pro sometimes great, sometimes dire player into a professional world cup winner. Those sand dunes fitness work was the toughest he ever encountered. Went to newport, transformed and then returned to SA rugby and won the world cup... better example for me than any other merc who moved because he was no longer good enough in his home country.

My merc I guess you mean mercenary. Not sure how you can distinguish a difference between Percy's reason for heading to Newport compared to any other foreign player playing abroad anywhere else in the world. Mercenary seems a touch harsh in the case of club rugby. Maybe different when you talk international rugby.

Best player I have seen at a region from outside of Wales was probably Regan King at his best.

merc, yeah those who literally go for the cash nothing more. Sure there were "better" players than Percy but as an advert for Welsh rugby there is no better. King had the benefit of moving in his peak years rather than when he was thrown to the slag heap in crutches and life support by their home unions like most of the others.

I trying to think of the best NSQ players (i.e. players who never qualified for Scotland) to feature for the two Scottish pro teams. Limiting myself to three each I'd probably go with:

Glasgow:

Matawalu - instrumental to the title success and a key catalyst for the Glasgow style of play. Badly missed this season.

Nakawara - a really high quality lock and similarly key to Glasgow finest moment, winning the Pro12 last season.

DTH - absolutely top class winger and has gone on to replicate that individual success at Scarlets (and Canada at two World Cups). Top class finisher.

Edinburgh:

Blackadder - good player, but great leader who brought much needed All Blacks know-how to a developing Edinburgh side. Left a legacy of knowledge with some important forwards for Scotland.

Du Preez - ok, he'll no doubt become SQ in the future but right now he's focused on Edinburgh and is a high class player. We've had some quality number 8s at the club (Taylor and Hogg for example) but Du Preez is a great allrounder: physical ball carrier but with great handling skills. I suspect he'll end Denton's career as a starter in the Scotland XV when his time comes.

Burleigh - high class operator who will hopefully be moved to 12 next season, his best position. He's made a good fist of it at 10 and brings Super 15 experience and some lovely footballing skills. He also has great pace over short distances and will hopefully become more influential as Edinburgh continue to develop as an attacking force.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

123456789 wrote:Without Biggar (or perhaps with Priestland, whichever way you look at it) Wales aren't the same side, if he's not there it could have a huge bearing. That said Priestland wasn't bad last week at all.

I think there'll be a strong Scotland performance, and I'd like to see a bit more from Finn Russell, I know being relaxed is part of his game and it's nice to see him enjoy it but seeing him grinning after his howler and after the game was hard to stomach, especially given the price of tickets for the matches.

I think we have to accept that sort of thing with a player like Russell, and whatever we do we want to bring back some enjoyment into the back play in Scottish rugby. Yes, he should have looked before putting boot to ball as Hogg was running a good supporting line but I can live with a wry smile. I was also pretty relieved because England were on the charge at that point and the interception and kick relieved the pressure. Yes, we could have had more from the situation, but he just didn't see Hogg. I don't think it means that he doesn't want to win.

Anyway, have you seen his bird? Can't blame the lad for failing to suppress a smile.

That's a fair argument, it was more the grinning at the end that wound me up, but then I'd rather him with a smile than Weir with a grimace.

I would expect Lydiate to start and if Biggar is fit I reckon that will be be the only change to the starting XV.

I hope he does something with the backs on the bench be it Anscombe, Amos or Morgan.

Amos to replace Cuthbert please.

munkian wrote:Amos to replace Cuthbert please.

I'd replace James or North with Amos in starting XV choice was mine but on the bench would be good.  Lets go down the thinking of Biggar won't start then a bench of Williams Anscombe and Amos would offer us a lot more than a bench of Williams Priestland and Cuthbert.

Whilst Wales were very poor against an understrength Irish team, the Scots really shouldn't offer any trouble. Wales should win this by 15+.

Here's the under 20's team.......Owen Watkin and Adam Beard have been called up by the Ospreys and Jarrod Evans has been called up by the Blues for the weekends fixtures

Wales U20s: Rhun Williams (RGC); Elis-Wyn Benham (Cardiff Blues), Joe Thomas (Ospreys), Harri Millard (Cardiff Blues), Keelan Giles (Ospreys); Dan Jones (Scarlets), Reuben Morgan-Williams (Ospreys); Corey Domachowski (Cardiff Blues), Dafydd Hughes (Scarlets), Dillon Lewis (Cardiff Blues), Shane Lewis-Hughes (Cardiff Blues), Bryce Morgan (Newport Gwent Dragons), Tom Phillips (captain, Scarlets), Shaun Evans (Scarlets), Harrison Keddie (Newport Gwent Dragons)

Replacements: Ifan Phillips (Scarlets), Robert Lewis (Cardiff Blues), Leon Brown (Newport Gwent Dragons), James Ratti (Ospreys), Morgan Sieniawski (Cardiff Blues), Declan Smith (Scarlets), Billy McBryde (Scarlets), Joe Gage (Ospreys)

PhilBB wrote:Whilst Wales were very poor against an understrength Irish team, the Scots really shouldn't offer any trouble. Wales should win this by 15+.

What was so poor about the Irish?

Most people seemed to think, considering their injuries they were pretty good.

Welsh set piece went well, a few last minute changes changed the attacking attibutes to Wales but otherwise I didn't think we played badly..

Not sure where you're coming from with this..?

What changes would you make?

Maes,

Would our attack have been any better without the last minute changes, I don't think so.

He didn't say they were poor he said they were under strength ?

Theres a fairly decent guide to where our attack went wrong here -

http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-defence-wales-six-nations-2016-2591653-Feb2016/

Sorry about that. Thought Samson Lee went off injured last game and saw an article dated February. Shame it was last year.......

If Scotland can get scrum parity, the backline should play better than it did against England.

If Biggar is only 80%, do you risk him?

Hazel Sapling wrote:http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/six-nations-2015-wales-suffer-8641506

If Scotland can get scrum parity, the backline should play better than it did against England. Fairly big loss for Wales. The tighthead and the fly-half are two of the most difficult positions to replace in world rugby. If Biggar is only 80%, do you risk him?

What has a post from 2015 got any relevance?

maestegmafia wrote:

PhilBB wrote:Whilst Wales were very poor against an understrength Irish team, the Scots really shouldn't offer any trouble. Wales should win this by 15+.

What was so poor about the Irish?

Most people seemed to think, considering their injuries they were pretty good.

Welsh set piece went well, a few last minute changes changed the attacking attibutes to Wales but otherwise I didn't think we played badly..

Not sure where you're coming from with this..?

What changes would you make?

They were missing a significant number of key players, as you've noted, hence Wales should have beaten them by 10+.

What changes would I make? Three new coaches, for starters.

PhilBB wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

PhilBB wrote:Whilst Wales were very poor against an understrength Irish team, the Scots really shouldn't offer any trouble. Wales should win this by 15+.

What was so poor about the Irish?

Most people seemed to think, considering their injuries they were pretty good.

Welsh set piece went well, a few last minute changes changed the attacking attibutes to Wales but otherwise I didn't think we played badly..

Not sure where you're coming from with this..?

What changes would you make?

They were missing a significant number of key players, as you've noted, hence Wales should have beaten them by 10+.

What changes would I make? Three new coaches, for starters.

To be fair, a lot of where we went wrong was down to poor execution - basics that the players should get right.