Aviva Premiership - Round 9

First topic message reminder :

Table

Team	--P--	--W--	--D--	--BP--	Points
Saracens	8	8	0	4	36
Exeter	8	6	0	6	30
Harlequins	8	5	1	5	27
Leicester	8	6	0	1	25
Northampton	8	4	0	5	21
Gloucester	8	4	1	2	20
Sale Sharks	8	3	1	3	17
Bath	8	3	0	4	16
Wasps	8	3	0	3	15
Worcester	8	2	0	4	12
Newcastle	8	1	1	0	6
London Irish	8	1	0	0	4

Fixtures

Fri 8th Jan 16

19:45 Bath Rugby Bath P - P Sale Sharks
Postponed to allow Bath to travel to Toulon.


Sat 9th Jan 16

15:00 Exeter Chiefs  v   Gloucester Rugby
Both sides have growing injury lists, but at home Chiefs should have too much and maintain their place at second in the table.

15:00 Harlequins  v   Saracens
Common wisdom is that Quins are incapable of beating Saracens. common wisdom is that they will struggle up front and then run into blind alleys. Common wisdom states that Saracens are too clinical, too ruthless and just too awesome for a fragile Harlequins.
Well Love sacks to common wisdom. Quins are tougher up front this year and should conditions be dry have easily enough to run the famed Sarries defence ragged, especially if McCall decides to conhcentrate on next weeks visit from Ulster. Will it be dry though?

15:15 Leicester Tigers  v   Northampton Saints BT Sport
Saints are in the poorest form I have seen since the relegation season - yet win at their old rivals and they will be in the Top 4! Will Mallinder decide to come with his strongest team, or will he be looking ahead to the Glasgow fixture next week? To be honest I am not sure the visitors can afford to worry about next week, they have to win this weekend in front of what will be the biggest ever crowd at Welford Road. Saints will be ruing the injury to Brookes, but will be certain they can get scrummage control - though it is possible that young Paul hill may learn a lesson or two from Marcos Ayerza. Saints will look to replicate the Sarries template from last week, take the scrum penalties, kick to the cornes and maul like crazy. They have shown little creative ability otherwise this season - but may well be looking for a Penalty Try TBP.
This game is free to air, for any interested.

Sun 10th Jan 16

13:00 London Irish  v   Newcastle Falcons BT Sport
Huge game for both clubs, but even more so for the hosts. They cannot afford to lose but can their half backs give them the control they need? Newcastle will look to dominate at scrum time, but have to improve at the lineout if they are to secure a vital away win. In their favour, the lineout is an area that LI have really struggled in. LI will be looking to take advantage of what has been at times a porous defence and certainly have some speedy backs who could prosper.


14:00 Wasps  v   Worcester Warriors
Wasps have looked like Gods in the ECC, but like dogs at times in the AP. Gopperth has had his one good display of the season and shoudl be dispensed with. Simpson needs to regain his earlier form. Most of all though they need hughes and Smith to be fit.
Wuss will fight for everything and never give up. If Wasps are not on top form they could prosper.

Thick thick play from Clever, that's our chance over I reckon.

And with Wuss beating Wasps....

Not looking god for the season.

So if his knees went on the ground, why didn't we get a penalty? I am coming to hate scrums.

Wuss 6-0 up in Coventry..

Well done Falcons...yet again!!! Amateurish at times

Gutted.

Micky Young far to ponderous there. No quick ball meant it was all to easy for LI to realign and generate good line speed.

Lets se what Deans excuses are this time.

13 - 3 now. Wow.

Ah well, we probably didn't deserve the win. I'd have took the LBP before the game, good fight back from the lads and Goode looked handy.

Close at the end there - hard luck Newcastle but well played Irish.

Just back from the match - thought we'd thrown away a 20-0 lead there - not good for my nerves ...  another corker from Lewington was the high point for me.  The worrying thing was we seemed to lack energy and intensity for large parts of the match and blew several good scoring chances.

33-22 to Wasps at the end.

Lewington was a class apart. Symons very average, talk of Englanf must surely be wide of the mark. We should started Vea as the scrum cost us dearly.

Scrum and re-starts so bad but not that awful outside that once Goode came on.

that prop for Falcons looked alright.

The one who had to cover for 10.

what was his name?

stub wrote:33-22 to Wasps at the end.

Two tries in the last two minutes - tough to take if you're a Warriors supporter

Yep - was pretty sure of a losing bonus point then Wasps broke right at the death. Gutting!

Mark Wilson - 17 tackles and 14 carries at lock. Blimey what a stint he put in!!!
He should be at a bigger club and everyone in England would be raving about him!

Even Beshocked would have to admit it.

And Robinson wasn't far behind.

The rest though.

Alex Tait needs to be benched. He has no attacking impetus despite being a winger.
McGuigan should start all the time now. Lawson is past it.

And what is Walder doing as attack coach. When e came in last year he had them playing some scintillating attacking rugby, we just needed to tweak it so we took more of our chances.

This season we look like a team that doesn't understand the aspects of attacking rugby.

If Falcons goes down i wouldn't be upset if Tigers signed Wilson and MCGuigan to replace Crane and Leo. Although couldn't see Wilson getting much game time @ Tigers mind.

When is Sinoti back?

Wilson is signed up for at least another year, Sinoti is back in March.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Wilson is signed up for at least another year, Sinoti is back in March.

If you get relegated Contracts tend to mean less. Unfortunately.

Hell Barrow had a clause about finishing less than 7th or something. Which was silly by Falcons IMO.

Welly wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Wilson is signed up for at least another year, Sinoti is back in March.

If When you get relegated Contracts tend to mean less. Unfortunately.

Hell Barrow had a clause about finishing less than 7th or something. Which was silly by Falcons IMO.

That's better. Unless theres dramatic improvement its a certainty.

Saints could do with looking @ Wilson IMHO.

I cant emphasize how good he is. He's playing at lock and puts in a performance like that. Top class premiership player.

Shame about the rest

Welly, Wilson is good, but not in Picamoles class. Role on next season.

Question is though whether Picamoles is still in Picamoles class.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Welly, Wilson is good, but not in Picamoles class. Role on next season.

Ermmmm you know Wilson plays Lock, 6 and 8.

Welly wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Welly, Wilson is good, but not in Picamoles class. Role on next season.

Ermmmm you know Wilson plays Lock, 6 and 8.

Well I know he plays 6 & 8, but very much an emergency lock at 107kg.

I was commenting on the Saints looking at Wilson, next year we will have Picamoles and Dickinson at 8, with Harrison covering. Wood and Gibson at 6, with Lawes covering and Lawes, Matfield , Day, Paterson at lock with Dickinson covering. Not much space in there for Wilson, especially at lock and 6. Now if he could play 7, I would agree with you.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Lewington was a class apart. Symons very average, talk of Englanf must surely be wide of the mark. We should started Vea as the scrum cost us dearly.

Scrum and re-starts so bad but not that awful outside that once Goode came on.

I think maybe you see a few players differently to others Sgt - Symons has been named in the Telegraph team of the week.

Heaf wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Lewington was a class apart. Symons very average, talk of Englanf must surely be wide of the mark. We should started Vea as the scrum cost us dearly.

Scrum and re-starts so bad but not that awful outside that once Goode came on.

I think maybe you see a few players differently to others Sgt - Symons has been named in the Telegraph team of the week.

You are kidding me? Nobody deserved to be named in anything after that dour affair, Symons especially who was arguably outplayed by Wilson imo.

Is Symons the new Itoje?

Heaf wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Lewington was a class apart. Symons very average, talk of Englanf must surely be wide of the mark. We should started Vea as the scrum cost us dearly.

Scrum and re-starts so bad but not that awful outside that once Goode came on.

I think maybe you see a few players differently to others Sgt - Symons has been named in the Telegraph team of the week.

well, as the Torygraphs team also includes tom Youngs it must be poopie.

Well that says it all.....did Topsy Ojo and Paddy Ryan make it?

Gotta agree with Sgt...how did Symons make the team of the week.

No-one from that game should have.

Right, well that was a tough game to watch yesterday.  The first half looked like two teams terrified to death to make a mistake, both playing not to lose rather than to win.  We played very little rugby, apaprt from a couple of decent breaks off set piece moves, which we probably should have finished, and Falcons huffed and puffed a lot but only looked like scoring once, and it's a complete mystery to all how they didn't.  That moment summed up the half, appalling play from London Irish (Topsy Ojo) followed by even worse play from Falcons (Chris Harris).

After 5 minutes of the second half I thought we would go on and win comfortably from a position of being 20-0 up, but our game management at that point went completely to pot  We looked like a team who had no idea what they were supposed to do from being 20-0 up, which is unsurprising given that has been a rare occurnece for us in the Premiership.  For all of Shane Geraghty's positives ball in hand, what he should have done was just put us in good field positions as our scrum and lineout were going well and we should have just played off that.  Credit to Falcons for sticking in and coming back, and we really had to hang on at the death for the win.  

With regards to Symons, as I have said before, he is not a lock that is going to catch the eye, certainly not in an attacking sense as he does not cary much.  What he does have is a huge engine and is tackle count is phenomenal.  He also hits rucks hard and is a good lineout option and leader.  Ultimately that's what I want from a guy wearing the number 4 jersey, and he did all of the above in spades yesterday.  

All the pressure was on us yesterday with being at home and being bottom and whilst it was not a great performance we came through and got the win.  That's a good place to be, but we cannot dwell on it, we need to kick on.  Unfortuantely I think we may have picked up moe injuries yesterday.  Noakes I think has dislocated his shoulder, and I heard talk of Paice and Franks picking up knocks as well.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Gotta agree with Sgt...how did Symons make the team of the week.

No-one from that game should have.

Lewington played well IMO

Sorry yes Heaf, he was the exception.

Lewington was the best player on the pitch by some distance. Sorry Pete, Symons looked nothing more than a decent lock for me yesterday, he's ten a penny in England really. I watched him closely yesterday as I was expecting big things but I though Wilson outplayed him.

He's decent in the lineout and tackles well but he doesn't dominate collisions or clear the ruck that well tbh, he just looked ok. Maybe he'll continue to get used to English game again but he's not at the level of some of our other options imo.

Pooly, we'll agree to disagree, it won't be the first time and sure it won't be the last. Suffice to say from a London Irish supporter perspective we are all very happy with him and his contribution to the team so far this season.

What's Falcons run of fixtures after European break like? I reckon February could have a massive impact on who ends up going down.

Yea that fair enough Pete, we all view our players perhaps higher than other supporters do. I'm just hugely disappointed with him as I had high hopes from his time in Super rugby.

Quins @ Home
Wasps Away
Leicester @ Home
Saints @ Home
Gloucester Away

An easy stroll Ozzy

Ouch!!! That's a tough run. What do you reckon is a realistic points haul from that for you guys?

As they say in the Eurovision....

NULL Point....

Acually...no, we might get something from Glos.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Heaf wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Lewington was a class apart. Symons very average, talk of Englanf must surely be wide of the mark. We should started Vea as the scrum cost us dearly.

Scrum and re-starts so bad but not that awful outside that once Goode came on.

I think maybe you see a few players differently to others Sgt - Symons has been named in the Telegraph team of the week.

You are kidding me? Nobody deserved to be named in anything after that dour affair, Symons especially who was arguably outplayed by Wilson imo.

Is Symons the new Itoje?

The new Itoje? No. Symons is not in the same class.

Neither is Wilson for some bizarre reason you and Geordiefalcon think is better than Itoje.

Who won AP player of December award? Wasn't Wilson or Symons was it?

Of course your excuse would be that neither Wilson or Symons get an armchair ride from their fellow team mates. Being in a weaker team can sometimes make a player shine greater.

Well done Quins -Saracens needed a loss to keep them from being complacent though you should send a thank you card to penalty machine, Gill. 11 points scored with Gill sent off....

Still don't understand how Gill keeps getting picked. He's a liability with his poor discipline.

I think Clifford is developing nicely and I would have him and Itoje on the bench vs Scotland as things stand.

Neither is Wilson for some bizarre reason you and Geordiefalcon think is better than Itoje.

No my argument is you flat down dismiss Wilson despite a 6'2 flanker playing lock putting in a performance like he did.

Who won AP player of December award? Wasn't Wilson or Symons was it?

Which is laughable as it is Kruis has been playing better!

The new Itoje as in the the media hype him up but it doesn't match what they're doing on the park

Did you see who selected the AP player of the month? I'll rest my case there....

I'd go with Wilson being better than Itoje currently, it's not that hard to argue for.

yay beshocked's back, I'd missed the Itoje discussions

In fairness Itoje has been playing very well this season, he's a strong carrier, and very good at disrupting opposition line-outs and rucks. Given how well Sarries's scrum has been going this season he can't be doing too badly there either. I'd have no problems with him being picked for England at the moment, especially if Launchbury and/or Kruis don't recover from their concussions.

Wilson's a very good player, though I don't think he's a lock, and I think England have better options at 6 right now. Wouldn't mind him being involved in the Saxons though...

I dismiss Wilson because I don't think he's in the same class as Itoje and have no argument to suggest he should be. It's not just Itoje I think that is superior to Wilson, there are numerous players. I only bring him up because both you and Pooly talk up Wilson and dismiss Itoje.

On the Kruis vs Itoje argument - both have been playing well but I have said time and again who I believe is the better prospect for England in the long term.

It's important for England to identify the players with the most potential. England has plenty of players they can pick from but there are some who are better than others.

Sgt Pooly sorry mate but you're deluded if you think Wilson is better than Itoje. You can say it's hype/media. It's not. Itoje is playing well as he did for most of last season too. I've always got the impression from you that you'll never rate him.

We only compare them because they're at smiler level, Wilson is a Saxon, Itoje isn't capped. Just because you don't say they're not at a similar level doesn't make it true.

Kruis and Sean Robinson outplayed Itoje up at Kingston Park.

beshocked wrote:It's important for England to identify the players with the most potential. England has plenty of players they can pick from but there are some who are better than others.

But only if YOU think they have the most potential. When the coaches follow this premise and the team do not win a GS you go nuclear in your condemnation.

So if Itoje plays, as all pundits think he will, and England fail to win a GS - will you be equally scathing as you have in the past?

LondonTiger wrote:

beshocked wrote:It's important for England to identify the players with the most potential. England has plenty of players they can pick from but there are some who are better than others.

But only if YOU think they have the most potential. When the coaches follow this premise and the team do not win a GS you go nuclear in your condemnation.

So if Itoje plays, as all pundits think he will, and England fail to win a GS - will you be equally scathing as you have in the past?

You're not wrong.