Aviva Premiership - Round 9

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Table

Team	--P--	--W--	--D--	--BP--	Points
Saracens	8	8	0	4	36
Exeter	8	6	0	6	30
Harlequins	8	5	1	5	27
Leicester	8	6	0	1	25
Northampton	8	4	0	5	21
Gloucester	8	4	1	2	20
Sale Sharks	8	3	1	3	17
Bath	8	3	0	4	16
Wasps	8	3	0	3	15
Worcester	8	2	0	4	12
Newcastle	8	1	1	0	6
London Irish	8	1	0	0	4

Fixtures

Fri 8th Jan 16

19:45 Bath Rugby Bath P - P Sale Sharks
Postponed to allow Bath to travel to Toulon.


Sat 9th Jan 16

15:00 Exeter Chiefs  v   Gloucester Rugby
Both sides have growing injury lists, but at home Chiefs should have too much and maintain their place at second in the table.

15:00 Harlequins  v   Saracens
Common wisdom is that Quins are incapable of beating Saracens. common wisdom is that they will struggle up front and then run into blind alleys. Common wisdom states that Saracens are too clinical, too ruthless and just too awesome for a fragile Harlequins.
Well Love sacks to common wisdom. Quins are tougher up front this year and should conditions be dry have easily enough to run the famed Sarries defence ragged, especially if McCall decides to conhcentrate on next weeks visit from Ulster. Will it be dry though?

15:15 Leicester Tigers  v   Northampton Saints BT Sport
Saints are in the poorest form I have seen since the relegation season - yet win at their old rivals and they will be in the Top 4! Will Mallinder decide to come with his strongest team, or will he be looking ahead to the Glasgow fixture next week? To be honest I am not sure the visitors can afford to worry about next week, they have to win this weekend in front of what will be the biggest ever crowd at Welford Road. Saints will be ruing the injury to Brookes, but will be certain they can get scrummage control - though it is possible that young Paul hill may learn a lesson or two from Marcos Ayerza. Saints will look to replicate the Sarries template from last week, take the scrum penalties, kick to the cornes and maul like crazy. They have shown little creative ability otherwise this season - but may well be looking for a Penalty Try TBP.
This game is free to air, for any interested.

Sun 10th Jan 16

13:00 London Irish  v   Newcastle Falcons BT Sport
Huge game for both clubs, but even more so for the hosts. They cannot afford to lose but can their half backs give them the control they need? Newcastle will look to dominate at scrum time, but have to improve at the lineout if they are to secure a vital away win. In their favour, the lineout is an area that LI have really struggled in. LI will be looking to take advantage of what has been at times a porous defence and certainly have some speedy backs who could prosper.


14:00 Wasps  v   Worcester Warriors
Wasps have looked like Gods in the ECC, but like dogs at times in the AP. Gopperth has had his one good display of the season and shoudl be dispensed with. Simpson needs to regain his earlier form. Most of all though they need hughes and Smith to be fit.
Wuss will fight for everything and never give up. If Wasps are not on top form they could prosper.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Where was Youngs pretty poor.Where did Haywood have anything over him?

I wouldn't say Youngs was poor, the conditions were awful, but Haywood was exceptional in the line out, Croft stole one at the front, but that was not the fault of the throw. Youngs had three or four screwy ones that Tigers struggled to clean up.

Haywood was the better open play option, making good runs, astute passes and doing the hard stuff when necessary. He has been doing the same for the last few months, that is why Hartley has been benched the last two games. Haywood is simply playing better and Hartley is our best hooker.

yappysnap wrote:I don't think Horwill will be the hero, but he was at least carded for his stupidity, unlike Farrell.

Any way let's not get into a ref bashing debate.

From my point of view Horwill still owes a debt of 2 points, can't be the hero

I'd agree with that summery WPI.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Where was Youngs pretty poor.Where did Haywood have anything over him?

I wouldn't say Youngs was poor, the conditions were awful, but Haywood was exceptional in the line out, Croft stole one at the front, but that was not the fault of the throw. Youngs had three or four screwy ones that Tigers struggled to clean up.

Haywood was the better open play option, making good runs, astute passes and doing the hard stuff when necessary. He has been doing the same for the last few months, that is why Hartley has been benched the last two games. Haywood is simply playing better and Hartley is our best hooker.

And Kitchener disrupting. Hartley coming back from concussion of course and injured today . Not saying Haywood is anything less than a good player but convincingly better today, no.

Happy to agree to disagree, I thought he was by far the better hooker on show.

The results today have given the top 4 a bit of leeway

Thought Saints played better today, but are missing that extra 10% to turn the loss into a win. That's 5 out of 9 games they have lost now but they are still in 5th.

Tigers have lost their way a bit, for the first time in a long while I'm wanting better weather to come as our pack just isn't playing well enough.

True Pooly think I'll sit back and wait for you to acknowledge a good Tom Youngs performance for the next discussion!

Has to be Youngs, George and Haywood as the hookers. Both Youngs and Haywood in the 90's from a lot of throws. Can't see Hartley getting in now he missed this week.

Ben Youngs probably starting 9. Kitchener likely to get a call if Kruis is crocked. McCaffrey and Harrison in with a shout in the backrow.

Cole was better this week, but Hill also played well.

Tuilagi looked fit enough.

ChequeredJersey wrote:For our match:

Brown vs Goode - Brown had his best game in ages, strong under high ball. Both offer very different things, both played well but Brown's defence also looked strong
Ashton vs Yarde - neither got any clear chances, both played well and were busy and looked for work. Can't fault either but not a chance for them to shine
Farrell had a very good game, one soft miss and a poor tip tackle apart. Unfortunately, Nev can't play for England
Care had a very good game, even box-kicked well under a lot of pressure! Made a try. Wrigglesworth was solid coming on
Marler vs Mako - clearly Mako, Sarries scrum destroyed us completely in first half. We won a couple later on but definitely Mako is a scrummaging force now
Buchanan vs George - George missed an early throw then solid and helped the scrum, looks a good player in the loose. Buchanan had a good game in the loose, running over Ashton and Farrell I think, but noooooot so good at the lineout. George could easily start for England
Matthews vs Kruis/Itoje. Kruis clobbered by Horwill for the yellow v early, hope he's ok Itoje put our lineout under all kinds of pressure and good at the breakdown. In general play, both carried ok and tackled very well. Itoje and Kruis both likely in the EPS
Robshaw vs Wray - Wray carried well, but Robshaw had an immense game in carrying, cleverness, leadership, breakdown and defence. Showed he can be a 6
Wallace vs Fraser - Fraser had a good game on the floor in a match with lots of turnovers, Wallace did more in the loose but Fraser also a very clever player. Think Fraser the better prospect
Clifford vs Vunipola - Vunipola running back kicks well and took his try well, he is in great form but Clifford is such a prospect - pace, power and intelligence. No reason Clifford won't be in the same England side as Billy one day

can't argue with any of that TBH, though think you're a little harsh on Marler, who after a tough start when Horwill was off recovered pretty well I thought. Also Fraser and Itoje both produced at least one big tackle each which resulted in a turnover, prob worth a mention. Really hope Kruis is OK. Definitely Brown's best game for a while that I've seen, and Clifford continues to look a real prospect.

I've only seen the second half so far. Not much between the hookers both played well. Obvious that Youngs has more experience but Jones will be happy with those options ahead of the six nations.

Tigers didn't play smart. Too many offloads that were 50/50 thrown in poor conditions. Allowed Saints back into the game and Saints are still a good team you can't give the an inch. Losing O'Connor early was unfortunate as he becomes a huge menace as people tire and he can get in amongst the breakdown. Still work to be done on the training park.

Eddie Jones may want to enquire about the parentage of McCaffery as I've heard he's got an English mother. He's been superb all season at 7 or 8.

How was Clifford CJ? At 8 today and a try?

No 7&1/2 wrote:True Pooly think I'll sit back and wait for you to acknowledge a good Tom Youngs performance for the next discussion!

When I actually see one I will

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:True Pooly think I'll sit back and wait for you to acknowledge a good Tom Youngs performance for the next discussion!

When I actually see one I will

It's hard to see one through one eye .

Also on the Lawes penalty at the end it was stupidity. He shouldn't be making plays like that, the defence was holding he needed to be whiter than white there. Tigers were struggling in the conditions and Burns had already missed one drop goal attempt he's an experienced international he should know better. Patience was required.

No 7&1/2 wrote:How was Clifford CJ? At 8 today and a try?

He was good. A completely different type of 8 to Easter or Vunipola, he just looks natural in all the back row positions and has a lot of poise and a lot of pace. Just think this 6N may be a year too soon


And completely screw Quins over

I think Clifford will be involved with the Saxons at least, though might be a bit too soon for the senior squad. As CJ said, a completely different type of 8 to Vunipola, but a very effective one. His versatility is a bonus...

I think it's worth having Clifford in the main EPS as a potential back row replacement. We don't have anyone else who covers all three positions to that level, or offers a complete change of pace for the last 25.

It is the abilty to cover 6 7 8 that gives him an advantage just not seen much of him at 8.

Poorfour wrote:I think it's worth having Clifford in the main EPS as a potential back row replacement. We don't have anyone else who covers all three positions to that level, or offers a complete change of pace for the last 25.

Will probably depend on injuries. It might be that he's left with Quins to keep getting AP experience and is then taken on the tour of Australia. Depends on the level of risk Jones wants to take as there's quite a few EQ back row options available.

formerly known as Sam wrote:I've only seen the second half so far. Not much between the hookers both played well. Obvious that Youngs has more experience but Jones will be happy with those options ahead of the six nations.

Tigers didn't play smart. Too many offloads that were 50/50 thrown in poor conditions. Allowed Saints back into the game and Saints are still a good team you can't give the an inch. Losing O'Connor early was unfortunate as he becomes a huge menace as people tire and he can get in amongst the breakdown. Still work to be done on the training park.

Eddie Jones may want to enquire about the parentage of McCaffery as I've heard he's got an English mother. He's been superb all season at 7 or 8.

Hopefully not...

I think Clifford has to be in the EPS. The guy is going to be class...and is very good now.

GeordieFalcon wrote:I think Clifford has to be in the EPS. The guy is going to be class...and is very good now.

Oh it's definitely a case of when he's capped as opposed to if. It's just player management and whether he'd be better served getting more game time at Quins and then touring in the summer as opposed to probably benching or being a squad player with England.

Just watched the first half of the Tigers game and bloody hell we were in complete control until Owen Williams went off. Burns just played too loose and didn't control the game enough so Saints were able to force their way back in.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:I think Clifford has to be in the EPS. The guy is going to be class...and is very good now.

Oh it's definitely a case of when he's capped as opposed to if. It's just player management and whether he'd be better served getting more game time at Quins and then touring in the summer as opposed to probably benching or being a squad player with England.

Just watched the first half of the Tigers game and bloody hell we were in complete control until Owen Williams went off. Burns just played too loose and didn't control the game enough so Saints were able to force their way back in.

I am very happy for him to get more experience with us, esp if Robshaw is in the England 23.

Hopefully though even if Clifford (and even Wallace) make the Saxons, we can still manage a decent backrow with Robinson, Ward, Luamanu and Easter plus the academy

I'm genuinely a little tearful with emotion at that win

It's a win that the AP needed. Makes things more interesting.

ChequeredJersey wrote:I'm genuinely a little tearful with emotion at that win

You and me both

https://twitter.com/martin_crowson/status/685903376744333313

I thought Tuilangi looked powerful and refreshingly threatening. Is there enough time to get him up to speed for the 6N?

Hopefully he'll start next week against Treviso. See if he can open the taps a bit more. He looked really busy and strong, even if he didn't really do anything spectacular.

He'll probably he worth a punt by Eddie. Get him in the squad, even if he doesn't play.

I think we need to call a councillor for the Quins fans here, dry your eyes lads! Try being a Falcons fan, I get tears from a losing BP...!

Is there any need to rush Manu back for the 6n Cumbrian.

We know he's a huge when in form....but jj has been excellent and Daly looks very good.

Is it not better to forget about Manu altogether to just get fit and enjoy his rugby with tigers and see him start destroying teams again.

Then maybe see him in the summer..

Cumbrian wrote:I think we need to call a councillor for the Quins fans here, dry your eyes lads!  Try being a Falcons fan, I get tears from a losing BP...!

Ha ha thats so true marra..

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:I think we need to call a councillor for the Quins fans here, dry your eyes lads!  Try being a Falcons fan, I get tears from a losing BP...!

Ha ha thats so true marra..

Obviously they were manly tears, and obviously I was doing some DIY, cooking a barbecue wrestling an alligator at the same time... Sniff

LT wrote:Harlequins  v   Saracens
Common wisdom is that Quins are incapable of beating Saracens. common wisdom is that they will struggle up front and then run into blind alleys. Common wisdom states that Saracens are too clinical, too ruthless and just too awesome for a fragile Harlequins.
Well Love sacks to common wisdom. Quins are tougher up front this year and should conditions be dry have easily enough to run the famed Sarries defence ragged, especially if McCall decides to conhcentrate on next weeks visit from Ulster. Will it be dry though?

100% accurate, and even with poor (terrible) conditions and a Saracens first team.

From the BBC;

And Leicester boss Richard Cockerill urged caution over the block-busting centre's fitness for the Six Nations opener at Murrayfield.

He said: "I will speak to Eddie [Jones] in the next few days. Manu will keep improving, but the start of the Six Nations is unrealistic because we need to make sure he is 100% right."

Apparently Eddie Jones was due to watch quins/sarries but knew Manu was going to get some game time so he decided to attend that game instead.

I suppose he wants to know if to include Manu in the EPS at all, not actually play him. Well hopefully not yet, he looked rusty as hell

Is that true Nathan? Seems bizarre to change plans just for one player. Especially with how the Quins game turned out

yappysnap wrote:Is that true Nathan? Seems bizarre to change plans just for one player. Especially with how the Quins game turned out

It's what I've read, no idea if it's true.

Hasn't Eddie seen quins and sarries already?

To be fair the Tigers vs Saints game was a pretty close game as well Yappy. It was probably a tough choice. Given Eddie was due to meet with Cockers and Mallinder to discuss different things it could have been kill two birds with one stone sort of thing. He was spoilt for choice yesterday and I presume Borthwick was probably in attendance at Quins.

Come on you falcons....

Straight away 2 kicks STRAIGHT TO OJO!!!!!

Keep the ball in hand and we can cause problems.

Hammersley has so much promise....but by god they need to sort his kicking out. Its appalling.

Decent possesion, causing a few problems. First Irish attack...3pts

Said it before, will say it again. I intensely dislike watching rugby in football stadiums, no matter how good the surface is.

Cumbrian wrote:Said it before, will say it again.  I intensely dislike watching rugby in football stadiums, no matter how good the surface is.

There's zero atmosphere, it's like a reserve game.

Scrums are such a flipping waste of time at the moment, I so rarely see one complete. Somebody wants to tell these lads that people aren't paying to see them with their faces in the dirt and their arses in the air.

Well that's a let off....

Nice break from Lewington, such a silky runner. Irish a bit lucky with the offside with Paice fumbling, luckily missed.

Actually its not just Hammersely...the whole falcons kicking is gash!