Eddie Jones - England's New Coach

First topic message reminder :

So the worst kept secret is out...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/12005671/Eddie-Jones-to-be-confirmed-as-England-head-coach-in-next-24-hours.html

Jury's out on this one, will have to see how the 6Ns goes then ponder his selection.

George Carlin wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:All in all a little bit of a meh appointment. Put it another way had Lancaster still been in charge I'd be more worried about Scotland's opener against England.

Eddie Jones is firmly in the plonker section as far as personality goes but I do think the RWC flattered Japan and as a result Jones.

We'll see how he gets on in the 6N. I'm not expecting his impact to be seismic.

Given a little extra recovery time for Japan it would have been interesting to see if the WC flattered Japan or if Scotlands WC would have been seen as positive. I also don't think there'll be a seismic shift but I thought England would be favourites for the 6Ns and don't think that'll change now.

Crikey. That didn't take long.

Certainly recent results have done nothing to convince me that England are favorites. Wales IMO have done more to suggest they are the front runners to lift the title.

Jones has gone on record calling the 6N a dour competition. From a purely personal point of view I hope he makes England play a dour brand of rugby. All their skill is in the backs and I don't think they have as dominant a pack as they have had in the past.

George Carlin wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:All in all a little bit of a meh appointment. Put it another way had Lancaster still been in charge I'd be more worried about Scotland's opener against England.

Eddie Jones is firmly in the plonker section as far as personality goes but I do think the RWC flattered Japan and as a result Jones.

We'll see how he gets on in the 6N. I'm not expecting his impact to be seismic.

Given a little extra recovery time for Japan it would have been interesting to see if the WC flattered Japan or if Scotlands WC would have been seen as positive. I also don't think there'll be a seismic shift but I thought England would be favourites for the 6Ns and don't think that'll change now.

Crikey. That didn't take long.

Said that well before the world cup to be honest. Looking at the fixtures, the big ones bar France at home, based on the players we had and have coming through. I don't think Jones will have too much tweaking to do, but I'm not basing it on Jones.

Recent results when Rugger? We've finished on level points with the winner for 4 years. WC fair enough the result fell Wales way but even with the mess (imo) of the midfield we probably should have closed that game out.

He's right about the 6N being a little dour.

Reading between the lines I think that's a good omen for England that he said that and touched a sensitive spot amongst some. Get that bit in early.

He obviously sees opportunities to shake up their style of play a little and you can probably look forward to expect the unexpected... which will make things interesting. Agree with some of the detractors on here though.

He's certainly not in the stellar coach class but who knows... he'll give it his best shot and there may even be that much needed shift in fortunes in a few months time. Think it's right to go in with slightly lower expectations (from a fan's point of view) that way any success will seem like the team is beginning the journey on the road to recovery. Needs some time though.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:All in all a little bit of a meh appointment. Put it another way had Lancaster still been in charge I'd be more worried about Scotland's opener against England.

Eddie Jones is firmly in the plonker section as far as personality goes but I do think the RWC flattered Japan and as a result Jones.

We'll see how he gets on in the 6N. I'm not expecting his impact to be seismic.

Given a little extra recovery time for Japan it would have been interesting to see if the WC flattered Japan or if Scotlands WC would have been seen as positive. I also don't think there'll be a seismic shift but I thought England would be favourites for the 6Ns and don't think that'll change now.

Crikey. That didn't take long.

Certainly recent results have done nothing to convince me that England are favorites. Wales IMO have done more to suggest they are the front runners to lift the title.

Jones has gone on record calling the 6N a dour competition. From a purely personal point of view I hope he makes England play a dour brand of rugby. All their skill is in the backs and I don't think they have as dominant a pack as they have had in the past.

If you go by the RWC results Scotland probably played the best of the 6N. Nobody else had a sniff of getting into the semis, although the injury list that Wales had to deal with was worse than anyone else and they played well in spells despite this. All Wales actually achieved was a late win against an imploding England (who based on the RWC are going to be competing with Italy for the wooden spoon)

No 7&1/2 wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:All in all a little bit of a meh appointment. Put it another way had Lancaster still been in charge I'd be more worried about Scotland's opener against England.

Eddie Jones is firmly in the plonker section as far as personality goes but I do think the RWC flattered Japan and as a result Jones.

We'll see how he gets on in the 6N. I'm not expecting his impact to be seismic.

Given a little extra recovery time for Japan it would have been interesting to see if the WC flattered Japan or if Scotland's WC would have been seen as positive. I also don't think there'll be a seismic shift but I thought England would be favorites for the 6Ns and don't think that'll change now.

Crikey. That didn't take long.

Said that well before the world cup to be honest. Looking at the fixtures, the big ones bar France at home, based on the players we had and have coming through. I don't think Jones will have too much tweaking to do, but I'm not basing it on Jones.

England couldn't beat Wales at home.

England were comprehensively mullered by Australia at the breakdown, in the scrum and in the backs.

I'm still struggling to see how they can be considered favorites for the six nations based on what we saw in the World cup.

Add into that the inevitable turmoil of a new coach. A coach who is lightyears away in terms of play style, personality and tactically of his predecessor all adds up to what could be a difficult 6N for England.

Again I might be wrong. Come to think of it, the last time England had a new coach and opened at Murrayfield I think I was saying the same thing.

However Dan Parks won't be playing to help England along this time Furthermore Scotland have an effective game plan in place underpinned by an excellent coach who has had his feet under the table for over a year now and coming off the back of a pretty successful world cup.

Scotland will have every right to be confident going into the opener. England IMO do not.

Probably why you need to look at form and players over a longer period of time to judge. Based on the world cupa lot of people may ignore results and judge on Scotlands performances and claim they may finish above half way. Not going to happen though.

chewed_mintie wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Wayne Smith as a mentor for a few seasons would be fantastic.  Not sure about his comments regarding All Blacks.  I thought he said he wants time off.

Smith is taking time off to travel.  Also acknowledged that although money can talk, has come to realise it isn't the be-all and end-all.  Simply put, you're not going to get him....

Wasn't that in reference to taking the top job though? He might be swayed into a part time role.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Probably why you need to look at form and players over a longer period of time to judge. Based on the world cupa lot of people may ignore results and judge on Scotlands performances and claim they may finish above half way. Not going to happen though.

England's pack needs firmed up quite a bit. In particular the front row. I would bring the Violent Penalty Magnet (Hartley) back as quick as possible and I do think without Corbisiero the England scrum is pretty vulnerable.

England are lucky to have some very good players available at lock and a backrow that has Robshaw at 6 and either Morgan or Vunipola at 8 can do some damage. A turnover specialist at 7 though seems to be the missing piece of the backrow puzzle.

Eddie has come from one rugby system in which clubs largely control the players to another. His first job will be to influence the replacement "EPS" agreement between RFU and PRL, which expires at the end of this season.

If he doesn't get what he wants, it may be a short stay here - if he does, there may be fireworks. Things could get interesting pretty quickly.

What do you think Corbisiero will bring to the team?

Who do you think is the best choice of 7 ignoring Armitage?

No 7&1/2 wrote: What do you think Corbisiero will bring to the team?

Perhaps he might scrummage straight as opposed to Marler?

No 7&1/2 wrote: Who do you think is the best choice of 7 ignoring Armitage?

I don't know. That's why I didn't apply for the job

Matt Kvesic? Again Jones is a coach not a magician. He can't conjure up a good turnover specialist flanker out of thin air. Hence your comment about England being favorites was a comment I am questioning.

Perhaps Jones will exert pressure on the RFU to revisit their policy concerning overseas players? They better do it quickly before Armitage gets capped for France at the Olympics next year

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote: What do you think Corbisiero will bring to the team?

Perhaps he might scrummage straight as opposed to Marler?

No 7&1/2 wrote: Who do you think is the best choice of 7 ignoring Armitage?

I don't know. That's why I didn't apply for the job

Matt Kvesic? Again Jones is a coach not a magician. He can't conjure up a good turnover specialist flanker out of thin air. Hence your comment about England being favorites was a comment I am questioning.

Perhaps Jones will exert pressure on the RFU to revisit their policy concerning overseas players? They better do it quickly before Armitage gets capped for France at the Olympics next year    

I bet he will. He was publicly very supportive of Cheika's move to relax the selection laws for overseas players.

He has also said that allowing overseas players to be selected is now by far the norm (which it is, only England and NZ out of the tier 1 nations has this prohibition).

https://twitter.com/englandrugby/status/667671400690257920

Will give you some answers


Happy to hear one of his goals is to have English coaches available to pick in 2019

Its going to hurt the quins lot quite a bit given Robshaw will be now lucky to make the squad given Jones said the following during the RWC

Chris Robshaw wears No 7, but he is a six-and-a-half at best. He's not hard over the ball and he's not quick. He's a useful player but he's not and out-and-out open-side flanker.
'Robshaw is an outstanding club player but at international level he just doesn't have that point of difference. He carries OK, he tackles OK, but he's not outstandingly good in any area. I think that is his limiting factor

So you don't know on Corbisiero, guessing you haven't seen much of him recently then?

And you don't know for the 2nd question. Fair enough.

Overall I'm also guessing you don't really watch much if any of the Aviva and seem to be basing on WC in part while ignoring some results.

My answers to that would be Marler is far superior to Corbisiero now who has seriously struggled and has fallen behind Waller for me now. Marler doesn't really have issue with boring in but will do it when he can get away with it. Issues in the WC with the legality of the Aus technique but it wasn't blown for so hey ho. Mullan is the best scrummaging prop for me (plays for Wasps).

There are 2 main guys aiming for the 7 shirt; for me Fraser (at Saracens) is the best and would ahve pushed far harder if not for injury. If he stays fit doubt anyone else would be able to get a look in. If these are the 2 areas where you think England will struggle I think you're wrong.

Questions England do need to answer are still the midfield; surely Slade (plays for Exeter) will get one place and I wouldn't be surprised to see Burrell next to him, though Joseph and Tuilagi if recovered will push hard. Ongoing question of when Watson will move back to full back and if Wade now gets a chance.

George Carlin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote: What do you think Corbisiero will bring to the team?

Perhaps he might scrummage straight as opposed to Marler?

No 7&1/2 wrote: Who do you think is the best choice of 7 ignoring Armitage?

I don't know. That's why I didn't apply for the job

Matt Kvesic? Again Jones is a coach not a magician. He can't conjure up a good turnover specialist flanker out of thin air. Hence your comment about England being favorites was a comment I am questioning.

Perhaps Jones will exert pressure on the RFU to revisit their policy concerning overseas players? They better do it quickly before Armitage gets capped for France at the Olympics next year    

I bet he will. He was publicly very supportive of Cheika's move to relax the selection laws for overseas players.

He has also said that allowing overseas players to be selected is now by far the norm (which it is, only England and NZ out of the tier 1 nations has this prohibition).

Nope he won't, the rule will stay the same!

nathan wrote:https://twitter.com/englandrugby/status/667671400690257920

Will give you some answers

I can't view that at work, a brief summary please?

-overseas rule stays
-will sit down with coaches then decide on team
-will pick team then a captain but will speak with robshaw
-wants to play a pragmatic game as the all blacks do
-wants to work well with the premiership
-aims to have english coaches ready to step up in 2019

nathan wrote:-overseas rule stays
-will sit down with coaches then decide on team
-will pick team then a captain but will speak with robshaw
-wants to play a pragmatic game as the all blacks do
-wants to work well with the premiership
-aims to have english coaches ready to step up in 2019

Pick a captain and will speak to Robshaw? Not good signs if you are Robshaw then...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/12006691/Eddie-Jones-will-definitely-be-a-success-with-England.html

Good read here...

With my Australian national hat on, I fear we will see a great resurgence in English rugby if he gets the job – and providing he is granted the remit to be the agent of change.

Rod Kafer

eirebilly wrote:

nathan wrote:-overseas rule stays
-will sit down with coaches then decide on team
-will pick team then a captain but will speak with robshaw
-wants to play a pragmatic game as the all blacks do
-wants to work well with the premiership
-aims to have english coaches ready to step up in 2019

Pick a captain and will speak to Robshaw? Not good signs if you are Robshaw then...

true, but i think he's doing it the right way. pick the best team first then the captain

Talked about bulldog speriiit and stuff.

Pretty good performance from Eddie.

No overseas players. He's going to sit down with Robshaw to chat (ie gone?), will play pragmatic rugby and then look for the add ons, winning is most important rather than structures/culture fluff, he can't wait to open a bank account.

I must admit that I like that approach as well Nathan. Unless you have a true leader for a captain that is always first name on the team sheet then this is a good approach, sadly I do not see Robshaw as being first name on the team sheet. Good player as he is though.

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Overall I'm also guessing you don't really watch much if any of the Aviva and seem to be basing on WC in part while ignoring some results.

A fairly safe assumption with a 3 month old at home I used to watch a bit of the Aviva when time allowed however this is few and far between these days.

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Marler is far superior to Corbisiero now who has seriously struggled and has fallen behind Waller for me now. Marler doesn't really have issue with boring in but will do it when he can get away with it. Issues in the WC with the legality of the Aus technique but it wasn't blown for so hey ho. Mullan is the best scrummaging prop for me (plays for Wasps).

I profoundly disagree with part of this though. Even when he wasn't getting away with it he was driving diagonally at pretty much every scrum during the RWC. Just goes to show it's not just a street in Harry Potter.

Mullan I do agree with, he was beastly against Leinster at the weekend. It's no wonder Ross went off at 48 minutes. He was getting hammered. Again though haven't seen enough of Wasps playing, however Wasps as a unit seem to be clicking well at the moment. Even Jackson seems to be playing well, however I'm not for one minute suggesting I'd recall him to the Scotland squad for anything other than cover for Finn Russell.

No 7&1/2 wrote:
There are 2 main guys aiming for the 7 shirt; for me Fraser (at Saracens) is the best and would ahve pushed far harder if not for injury. If he stays fit doubt anyone else would be able to get a look in. If these are the 2 areas where you think England will struggle I think you're wrong.

Saw Fraser for Sarries against Toulouse. Seemed to be a real nuisance but as I said I haven't had much of a chance to watch too many Aviva games so can't be a judge of his consistency.

Like I said player pool is England's greatest strength and greatest weakness. A lot of players forms can dip and everyone is playing such a different style it's hard to parachute a like for like player in.

This is the battle Jones will have to win in order for England to be favorites as you seem to suggest. IMO he doesn't have time to do this before the start of the 6N.

Robshaw might be the price for moving on but (RWC apart) he is a very good player.

His work rate is off the scale. He makes more tackles than anyone else and he's always where the action is. He has made some much vaunted 7's have very quiet games in the past too.

RR

It depends, sometimes when you have a new coach in place you get an extra 10% out of the players as they are all trying to impress.

I'm not saying England are favourites but i would imagine they will have a rocked shoved up their behinds

nathan wrote:https://twitter.com/englandrugby/status/667671400690257920

Will give you some answers


Happy to hear one of his goals is to have English coaches available to pick in 2019

Where was Eddie sitting?  It looked like a graveyard.
Where did he get that suit?  Off the discount rack at Tesco?

Besides those points it was a very benign interview:  Get the performance right and the wins will come, base the approach around traditional English Rugby strengths (pack) but take the with defence gives us, develop English coaches for 2019 and beyond, review everything, have courtesy conversations with the existing coaches and Robshaw.  He didn't commit to much, which is the right thing at this point in time until he has a chance to really dig in.  No mistakes, but this wasn't a press conference, just a puff piece.

Everything he has siad i have agreed on so far.

I'm happy ATM.

doctor_grey wrote:

nathan wrote:https://twitter.com/englandrugby/status/667671400690257920

Will give you some answers


Happy to hear one of his goals is to have English coaches available to pick in 2019

Where was Eddie sitting?  It looked like a graveyard.
Where did he get that suit?  Off the discount rack at Tesco?

Besides those points it was a very benign interview:  Get the performance right and the wins will come, base the approach around traditional English Rugby strengths (pack) but take the with defence gives us, develop English coaches for 2019 and beyond, review everything, have courtesy conversations with the existing coaches and Robshaw.  He didn't commit to much, which is the right thing at this point in time until he has a chance to really dig in.  No mistakes, but this wasn't a press conference, just a puff piece.

lol, i did think about the suit!

it was a very media friendly puff piece, but it gave a few bits of info. But we can't expect much else really, not at this early stage.

One thing that did strike me, was his answer to centrally contracted players. Well, he didn't really answer it.

I wonder if he will be pushing for this, big change for all those involved.

Has there been any mention of the EPS selection etc?

doctor_grey wrote:

nathan wrote:https://twitter.com/englandrugby/status/667671400690257920

Will give you some answers


Happy to hear one of his goals is to have English coaches available to pick in 2019

Where was Eddie sitting?  It looked like a graveyard.
Where did he get that suit?  Off the discount rack at Tesco?

Besides those points it was a very benign interview:  Get the performance right and the wins will come, base the approach around traditional English Rugby strengths (pack) but take the with defence gives us, develop English coaches for 2019 and beyond, review everything, have courtesy conversations with the existing coaches and Robshaw.  He didn't commit to much, which is the right thing at this point in time until he has a chance to really dig in.  No mistakes, but this wasn't a press conference, just a puff piece.

It is England's traditional strength but Englands Current strength Starts with Ford at 10 and creative players like Joseph and that thug Brown getting their hands on the ball as often as possible.  The English pack looked very flimsy at best during the RWC. Some of this might be due to selection however the scrum needs serious work before your 6N opener against us at Murrayfield.

I'll leave the thread to you guys now but personally I would have given Lancaster a bit more time.

P.S. I'm gonna check this interview out purely to check on Doc's fashion knowlege.

nathan wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

nathan wrote:https://twitter.com/englandrugby/status/667671400690257920

Will give you some answers


Happy to hear one of his goals is to have English coaches available to pick in 2019

Where was Eddie sitting?  It looked like a graveyard.
Where did he get that suit?  Off the discount rack at Tesco?

Besides those points it was a very benign interview:  Get the performance right and the wins will come, base the approach around traditional English Rugby strengths (pack) but take the with defence gives us, develop English coaches for 2019 and beyond, review everything, have courtesy conversations with the existing coaches and Robshaw.  He didn't commit to much, which is the right thing at this point in time until he has a chance to really dig in.  No mistakes, but this wasn't a press conference, just a puff piece.

lol, i did think about the suit!

it was a very media friendly puff piece, but it gave a few bits of info. But we can't expect much else really, not at this early stage.

So I am not the only one!

I rather liked the format. I thought it a good opportunity for Eddie to lay out the broad strokes of what he will do and how he will appproach the job. Nice easy non-confrontational PR piece. I think it is probably better, and more honest, to discuss like this rather than pretend to be stuck in and evaluating everything already.

I wonder when he will have his first press conference. I bet he is a real pro at handling the media.

think they have one scheduled at 1300, not much time for him to evaluate the whole setup lol

I think he is the right man for the job at the moment but I still give him less than 2 years in the role, he'll ruffle too many feathers higher up the peaking order.

Robshaw will be considered for a 6 only I would think from now on. And he will have some competition for that spot aswell.

Robshaw will be lucky to get more than 10 more caps. Will struggle to nail down even a place on the bench given he's a little small height wise for a 6 (given england's 8 options are also a little short and heavy...  someone needs to jump at the back).

43 caps is still a very decent sum, he captained his country and to a world cup so I think he did better than most expected.

TightHEAD wrote:I think he is the right man for the job at the moment but I still give him less than 2 years in the role, he'll ruffle too many feathers higher up the peaking order.

And if has got us winning, sorted out some of the issues (breakdown etc) and has given us time for some of the young English managers to really come good then that's fine

Got to feel for everyone in the WP/Stormers setup.

Hopefully Miss Karma will show up in some form

protea438 wrote:Got to feel for everyone in the WP/Stormers setup.

Hopefully Miss Karma will show up in some form

oh well, its a professional sport

GeordieFalcon wrote:Robshaw will be considered for a 6 only I would think from now on. And he will have some competition for that spot aswell.

When you look at it how does he match up against other 6s?

Wood, Croft, Itoje  types are all tall, lean and fast with perhaps a vertical reach of 6inches higher than Robshaw as well as being up to 10kg lighter to lift. England needs their 6s to be tall given they their 8s aren't and all teams need a backrow jumper. Whoever the 7 is I doubt they will be 6'3 or greater?

For Robshaw to improve his chances he needs to carry the ball better... but quite simply he's not that sort of player. Perhaps he could reinvent himself a little by losing say 5-10kgs and get some sharpness back but the writing is on the wall to be honest.

protea438 wrote:Got to feel for everyone in the WP/Stormers setup.

Hopefully Miss Karma will show up in some form

I think we'll be ok. Lots of decent coaches about.

protea438 wrote:Got to feel for everyone in the WP/Stormers setup.

Hopefully Miss Karma will show up in some form

Was waiting for these types of comments....

The "oh well he likes coaching tier 2 sides" aswell......

GeordieFalcon wrote:

protea438 wrote:Got to feel for everyone in the WP/Stormers setup.

Hopefully Miss Karma will show up in some form

Was waiting for these types of comments....

The "oh well he likes coaching tier 2 sides"  aswell......

Who's saying that? Just you, twice now.

protea438 is right though, sign a coach and before a ball is kicked he quits.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

protea438 wrote:Got to feel for everyone in the WP/Stormers setup.

Hopefully Miss Karma will show up in some form

Was waiting for these types of comments....

The "oh well he likes coaching tier 2 sides"  aswell......

These 'types' of comments ?

You mean ones written without wearing rose c***ed glasses ?

I'm sure the Stormers are gutted, getting money for nothing

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'm sure the Stormers are gutted, getting money for nothing

Thats fine but they've lost out on a top coach and whoever they get will probably not be their first choice... and additionally they know it too. At this stage in the season it may cost more to tempt out someone of a similar calibre to come and coach our side.

From what I've heard its only what R2MM. What is the cost of recruiting another coach alone going to cost?

nathan wrote:

protea438 wrote:Got to feel for everyone in the WP/Stormers setup.

Hopefully Miss Karma will show up in some form

oh well, its a professional sport

Karma can be a bitch though, oh well.

So the logic is, the wealthiest 'deserve' to have the best of the best, because they can?

Not that Eddie is in that category.

munkian wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

protea438 wrote:Got to feel for everyone in the WP/Stormers setup.

Hopefully Miss Karma will show up in some form

Was waiting for these types of comments....

The "oh well he likes coaching tier 2 sides"  aswell......

These 'types' of comments ?

You mean ones written without wearing rose c***ed glasses ?

Or those from other countries that can't stand to see anything positive for england