Ireland v Scotland, 15 August

by **George Carlin** Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:04 am

First topic message reminder :

Ireland v Scotland, 15 August - Page 2 Irelan10

Ireland v Scotland, 15 August - Page 2 Scot_f10

IRELAND v SCOTLAND
15 August 2015
KO: 17:00 local
Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Live on Sky Sports at Notch's house

Referee: Pascal Gaüzère (France)
Assistant Referees: [TBC]
TMO: [TBC]

A. Head to Head

130 Played 130
59 Won 66
5 Drawn 5
66 Lost 59
1,416 Points 1,420

B. Recent Form

21 March 2015
BT Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
10 – 40 to Ireland

2 February 2014
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
28 – 6 to Ireland

24 February 2013
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
12 – 8 to Scotland

10 March 2012
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
32 – 14 to Ireland

6 August 2011
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
10 – 6 to Scotland

27 February 2011
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
18 – 21 to Ireland

20 March 2010
Croke Park, Dublin
20 – 23 to Scotland

C. Teams

IRELAND
Ireland v Scotland, 15 August - Page 2 Father11

Ireland v Scotland, 15 August - Page 2 Father11

15. Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)
14. Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
13. Jared Payne (Ulster)
12. Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11. Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock/Leinster)
10. Ian Madigan (Blackrock/Leinster)
09. Isaac Boss (Terenure/Leinster)

08. Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster) capt
07. Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster)
06. Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster)*
05. Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
04. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
03. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
02. Sean Cronin (St Mary's College/Leinster)
01. Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster)

16. Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)
17. Michael Bent (Dublin University/Leinster)
18. Nathan White (Connacht)*
19. Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
20. Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21. Eoin Reddan (Old Crescent/Leinster)
22. Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
23. Dave Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)

SCOTLAND
Ireland v Scotland, 15 August - Page 2 Glasgo10

Ireland v Scotland, 15 August - Page 2 Glasgo10

15 Ruaridh Jackson (Wasps)
14 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors)
13 Richie Vernon (Glasgow Warriors)
12 Peter Horne (Glasgow Warriors)
11 Tim Visser (Harlequins)
10 Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby)
09 Henry Pyrgos CAPTAIN (Glasgow Warriors)

01 Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors)
02 Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors)
03 Jon Welsh (Newcastle Falcons)
04 Jim Hamilton (Saracens)
05 Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby)
06 Blair Cowan (London Irish)
07 Hugh Blake (Glasgow Warriors)
08 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby)

16 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby)
17 Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors)
18 Mike Cusack (Glasgow Warriors)
19 Rob Harley (Glasgow Warriors)
20 John Barclay (Scarlets)
21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby)
22 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors)
23 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby)

by funnyExiledScot Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:50 am

George Carlin wrote:What interests me is any suggestion that Watson has a greater claim to the third openside shirt than Hardie. I cannot see why that should be. They probably have had the same amount of rugby over the past year. In Watson's favour is his familiarity with his Edinburgh colleagues and (being charitable) his single cap but there is not a clear and obvious reason to think that one is the better player.

Making a squad is not some sort of 'reward for service'. It's a meritocracy. Let's hope Cotter gives us a look at a number of players in these matches. Couldn't give a hoot who wins them.

Exactly my point. Now is not the time to be "looking at players". Watson has been involved in previous squad, knows and has played with most of the players before and has been in outstanding form for Edinburgh this season.

I can't comment on Hardie's form, I don't watch enough SH rugby, but in terms of judging him on merit, his lack of time with the squad (he hasn't even been part fo the pre-World Cup squad from day one for heaven's sake!!) and the other players counts heavily against him. If this were a meritocracy he wouldn't be near this squad. Surely being available for the entire pre-WC training camp would have been at least one criterion for World Cup selection?

If Hardie had only been able to join the squad on Monday, would you still pick him? What about if he hadn't been able to attend any of the pre-World Cup training squad? Still ok? Surely if he's good enough he could just jump straight in? Wouldn't that be a meritocracy?

You probably can't tell, but Hardie's selection mid-way through the WC preparations still p*sses me off. I was still trying to get comfortable with Strauss, who we can't even use in these games because he isn't "Scottish" yet!

by Weegie Wizard Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:56 am

For openside, I would have Barclay as the first choice by a country mile. I would also take Hardie and Watson but Cotter will select Cowan, probably at Watson's expense.

I can understand (and I share) the reluctance to involve Blake as he has little experience at any level near test rugby but to include Hardie in that category is wrong. He was the first choice 7 for the team that won super rugby 2 months ago. The was injured for the playoffs but played 11 of the 16 games in the regular season and played very well all season.

He might not have played next to the rest of the team before but that would not be held against him if the team he played for was in France or England. He is a very good player (possibly our best 7) and qualifies to play for Scotland - we should pick him.

For this game, I agree that there are a group of players who will definitely make the squad and will probably only play 1 or 2 warm up games (not this one). So we may see:

Reid, Brown, Nel, Gray Snr, Gilchrist, Harley, Hardie, Denton,
Pyrgos, Jackson, Horne, Bennett, Visser, Hoyland & Maitland (if he is fit)

Pretty rank team, but we need to have a look at a few folk.

by funnyExiledScot Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:58 am

George Carlin wrote:The other interesting player who might make the squad as a bolter is Jackson over Weir. Weir would correctly be distraught if that happened given that Jackson hasn't had a competitive game since last September but I wouldn't put it past Jackson to have a stormer in at least one of the games if he has any meaningful fitness.

Ah, something we can agree on. Jackson vs Weir for the World Cup Squad is a really interesting one. Both have international experience and neither are coming off the back of strong seasons: Weir hasn't had much of a sniff with Russell about plus has been pretty average whenever he has had a go, and Jackson was looking really promising and then got injured. Jackson's style of play is far closer to Russell, and with H-C and Laidlaw both likely to feature, goal kicking isn't really a factor (and neither Jackson nor Weir have looked much cop in that department).

If Jackson is fit, then I would probably go with him. Should we have to replace Russell for any of the big games, then I think Weir is just too different. His instinct is always to kick the ball, and in recent times he's had no accuracy whatsoever. Our backs need the ball to go through the hands, and Jackson is way way ahead of Weir in the creativity stakes.

by **George Carlin** Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:58 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:
George Carlin wrote:What interests me is any suggestion that Watson has a greater claim to the third openside shirt than Hardie. I cannot see why that should be. They probably have had the same amount of rugby over the past year. In Watson's favour is his familiarity with his Edinburgh colleagues and (being charitable) his single cap but there is not a clear and obvious reason to think that one is the better player.

Making a squad is not some sort of 'reward for service'. It's a meritocracy. Let's hope Cotter gives us a look at a number of players in these matches. Couldn't give a hoot who wins them.

Exactly my point. Now is not the time to be "looking at players". Watson has been involved in previous squad, knows and has played with most of the players before and has been in outstanding form for Edinburgh this season.

I can't comment on Hardie's form, I don't watch enough SH rugby, but in terms of judging him on merit, his lack of time with the squad (he hasn't even been part fo the pre-World Cup squad from day one for heaven's sake!!) and the other players counts heavily against him. If this were a meritocracy he wouldn't be near this squad. Surely being available for the entire pre-WC training camp would have been at least one criterion for World Cup selection?

If Hardie had only been able to join the squad on Monday, would you still pick him? What about if he hadn't been able to attend any of the pre-World Cup training squad? Still ok? Surely if he's good enough he could just jump straight in? Wouldn't that be a meritocracy?

You probably can't tell, but Hardie's selection mid-way through the WC preparations still p*sses me off. I was still trying to get comfortable with Strauss, who we can't even use in these games because he isn't "Scottish" yet!

Ireland v Scotland, 15 August - Page 2 Scared10

Take what you like, just don't hit the money maker...

by funnyExiledScot Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:01 am

Weegie Wizard wrote:For openside, I would have Barclay as the first choice by a country mile. I would also take Hardie and Watson but Cotter will select Cowan, probably at Watson's expense.

There is no chance of three specialist opensides being picked in the final 31. It'll be two maximum, and if Scott Johnson is consulted, probably none!

My fear is that he just takes Cowan, and uses Harley at 7 against USA.

by funnyExiledScot Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:02 am

George Carlin wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
George Carlin wrote:What interests me is any suggestion that Watson has a greater claim to the third openside shirt than Hardie. I cannot see why that should be. They probably have had the same amount of rugby over the past year. In Watson's favour is his familiarity with his Edinburgh colleagues and (being charitable) his single cap but there is not a clear and obvious reason to think that one is the better player.

Making a squad is not some sort of 'reward for service'. It's a meritocracy. Let's hope Cotter gives us a look at a number of players in these matches. Couldn't give a hoot who wins them.

Exactly my point. Now is not the time to be "looking at players". Watson has been involved in previous squad, knows and has played with most of the players before and has been in outstanding form for Edinburgh this season.

I can't comment on Hardie's form, I don't watch enough SH rugby, but in terms of judging him on merit, his lack of time with the squad (he hasn't even been part fo the pre-World Cup squad from day one for heaven's sake!!) and the other players counts heavily against him. If this were a meritocracy he wouldn't be near this squad. Surely being available for the entire pre-WC training camp would have been at least one criterion for World Cup selection?

If Hardie had only been able to join the squad on Monday, would you still pick him? What about if he hadn't been able to attend any of the pre-World Cup training squad? Still ok? Surely if he's good enough he could just jump straight in? Wouldn't that be a meritocracy?

You probably can't tell, but Hardie's selection mid-way through the WC preparations still p*sses me off. I was still trying to get comfortable with Strauss, who we can't even use in these games because he isn't "Scottish" yet!

Take what you like, just don't hit the money maker...

by Weegie Wizard Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:10 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Weegie Wizard wrote:For openside, I would have Barclay as the first choice by a country mile. I would also take Hardie and Watson but Cotter will select Cowan, probably at Watson's expense.

There is no chance of three specialist opensides being picked in the final 31. It'll be two maximum, and if Scott Johnson is consulted, probably none!

My fear is that he just takes Cowan, and uses Harley at 7 against USA.

Remember Barclay has been playing 8 for Scarlets so that means SJ thinks he can play anywhere. Barlcay & Vernon as midfield combo?

by funnyExiledScot Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:14 am

Well I'm just hoping that SJ isn't asked for his opinion. My assumption is that we'll either take 5 or 6 back row players:

6.Strauss, Harley
7.Barclay, Watson (although Cotter will take Cowan)
8.Denton, Ashe

I suspect it'll only be 6 if we take 3 locks (Grayx2 and Gilchrist) and therefore Harley is covering lock as well.

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:45 am

George Carlin wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
George Carlin wrote:What interests me is any suggestion that Watson has a greater claim to the third openside shirt than Hardie. I cannot see why that should be. They probably have had the same amount of rugby over the past year. In Watson's favour is his familiarity with his Edinburgh colleagues and (being charitable) his single cap but there is not a clear and obvious reason to think that one is the better player.

Making a squad is not some sort of 'reward for service'. It's a meritocracy. Let's hope Cotter gives us a look at a number of players in these matches. Couldn't give a hoot who wins them.

Ooft, wait until Radge sees this!
I'll be hiding behind a sofa when that happens.

Hardie has already sullied his reputation by admitting a Scotland cap was a consolation prize. he’s lucky he didn’t get sent packing the moment he said it.

Watson has had a very good season and to be honest he can thank his lucky stars that Solomans’ Edinburgh faves have been injured otherwise he would never have gotten a chance. IMO he goes into this match as the form 7. Barclay has played too much at 8 to really let us know what he can do.

Also I don’t but into the Cowan bashing, he had a great autumn and a bad 6N, however Harley was rank rotten in the 6N too and avoids the same level of criticism. I do agree that we know what Cowan can bring to the squad and these games we should be a bit more experimental. I’d bring Barclay back in at 7 for this one and see if he can still cut the mustard there, he’s played a lot of this season at 8 for the Scarlets.

Getting Nel capped pronto is a must. This will be a good test for our frontrow which should be the Edinburgh front row with Gray Jr and Gilchrist in the boiler room. Batman and Barclay on the flanks and either Dozer or Ashe at 8, preferably Dozer to see what his match fitness is like.

At halfback lets get SHC and Russel playing together quickly.

My team for Ireland:

1. Dickinson
2. Ford
3. Nel
4. Gray jr
5. Gilchrist
6. Batman
7. Barclay [C]
8. Denton
9. SHC
10. Russel
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. Vernon
14. Seymore
15. Tonks

by **George Carlin** Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:33 am

If Scott Johnson is involved, you can expect to see:

01. Ali Dickinson
02. Ross Ford
03. Ryan Wilson
04. Bob Harley
05. Johnners Beattie
06. Labradoodle Denton
07. Adam Ashe
08. John Barclay

09. Frodo Laidlaw
10. Meatball Lammie Pie Weir
11. Douglas of Fife
12. An old, rusty birdcage he found
13. Matt 'only 12' Scott
14. Lee Jones
15. Greig Tonks

24. Kelly Brown

by funnyExiledScot Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:38 am

He'd also probably pick Strauss (you can never have too many number 8s), in breach of IRB rules, incur the SRU a massive fine thus wiping out all Dodson's good work.

I'm not saying he's incompetent but.....

by **RDW** Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:41 am

What would actually if if Strauss was picked? Could anyone actually physically stop him playing (or at least try to)? i.e. could the ref tell him he has to get off the pitch? Would be a bit of a farcical situation, but an interesting question nonetheless!

by **George Carlin** Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:43 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:What would actually if if Strauss was picked? Could anyone actually physically stop him playing (or at least try to)? i.e. could the ref tell him he has to get off the pitch? Would be a bit of a farcical situation, but an interesting question nonetheless!

If the referee is Sir Nige, then we know exactly what would happen:

by Captain_Sensible Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:49 am

I think all team selections have to be cleared with World Rugby, so the powers that be would put the kibosh on Strauss playing in the warm-ups before he ever got near the pitch.

by IanBru Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:50 am

I think a fairly sizeable fine would be imposed on the SRU for fielding an ineligible player, even more so when there was no ambiguity (i.e. we wouldn't even have the normal granny-gate excuses).

Interestingly, this has appeared on the Scottish Rugby twitter feed:
https://twitter.com/Scotlandteam/status/630659933160230912

Assuming the numbers next to certain names mean anything (they could just be their order of priority at the Thai massage bar on Thistle Street), we're looking at a lineup of:
1. Dickinson
2. Ford/Brown
3.
4.
5. Gray J/R
6. Harley
7. Watson
8. Denton
9. Laidlaw/SHC
10. Russell
11. Visser
12.
13. Bennett/Scott
14. Seymour
15. Hogg

From this we can possibly learn:
1. '#12 Matt Scott' looks remarkably like '#13 Matt Scott' on a blurry iPad screen;
2. Ernst Röhm appears to be providing data analysis for the Scotland rugby team; and
3. If we put any weight behind this post then we should start wearing tin foil hats and believing the Sunday Herald.

by funnyExiledScot Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:22 am

That looks far too sensible to be correct. More likely a Chinese takeaway order.

by **RDW** Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:23 am

Regarding Struass, without opening up the debate too much again, it is a real pain in the hoop that his first caps will be during a world cup. Even if he became available for one warm up game I think it would make a big difference. I doubt any other team is going into the world cup looking to play a player with no caps!

But that's the situation we are in though, so we've got to make the most of it. if he's going to be selected for that squad, and I suspect he will be, in my mind that means (if he's allowed to) he should be part of the wider squad for all 4 games, do the warm up, be the water boy that runs on with messages and do the warm down etc. That means he'll at least be up to speed with how an international game day works and how Scotland do things - i.e. his first game shouldn't be a complete step into the unknown.

by Captain_Sensible Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:25 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Regarding Struass, without opening up the debate too much again, it is a real pain in the hoop that his first caps will be during a world cup. Even if he became available for one warm up game I think it would make a big difference. I doubt any other team is going into the world cup looking to play a player with no caps!

But that's the situation we are in though, so we've got to make the most of it. if he's going to be selected for that squad, and I suspect he will be, in my mind that means (if he's allowed to) he should be part of the wider squad for all 4 games, do the warm up, be the water boy that runs on with messages and do the warm down etc. That means he'll at least be up to speed with how an international game day works and how Scotland do things - i.e. his first game shouldn't be a complete step into the unknown.

Couldn't agree more, good post.

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:29 am

I reckon we'll know a lot more after this match. If Denton or Ashe come in and play well we shouldn't need Strauss. He can go back to Glasgow and debut in the 6N.

However if Denton or Ashe fail to inspire in these warm ups Cotter's decision will be much more difficult. Barclay at 8 can work, it has done for the Scarlets this year and the simple truth is he has played more rugby at 8 than he has at 7 this season so even if Denton and Ashe don't play well Cotter has another option.

My feelings on Strauss are clear, however these games we need to look at combinations and building units that we can slot into place for the RWC itself. I don't want to hand out a Valuable squad berth to a player who hasn't played a test match yet.

I don't think any other team with our wealth of talent in the backrow would consider it an option either.

by Captain_Sensible Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:33 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I reckon we'll know a lot more after this match. If Denton or Ashe come in and play well we shouldn't need Strauss. He can go back to Glasgow and debut in the 6N.

However if Denton or Ashe fail to inspire in these warm ups Cotter's decision will be much more difficult. Barclay at 8 can work, it has done for the Scarlets this year and the simple truth is he has played more rugby at 8 than he has at 7 this season so even if Denton and Ashe don't play well Cotter has another option.

My feelings on Strauss are clear, however these games we need to look at combinations and building units that we can slot into place for the RWC itself. I don't want to hand out a Valuable squad berth to a player who hasn't played a test match yet.

I don't think any other team with our wealth of talent in the backrow would consider it an option either.

In my view, discarding Strauss at this stage would be utter madness. He's miles ahead of the other options at 8, and perhaps even 6.

by funnyExiledScot Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:46 am

Captain_Sensible wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Regarding Struass, without opening up the debate too much again, it is a real pain in the hoop that his first caps will be during a world cup. Even if he became available for one warm up game I think it would make a big difference. I doubt any other team is going into the world cup looking to play a player with no caps!

But that's the situation we are in though, so we've got to make the most of it. if he's going to be selected for that squad, and I suspect he will be, in my mind that means (if he's allowed to) he should be part of the wider squad for all 4 games, do the warm up, be the water boy that runs on with messages and do the warm down etc. That means he'll at least be up to speed with how an international game day works and how Scotland do things - i.e. his first game shouldn't be a complete step into the unknown.

Couldn't agree more, good post.

+1. I've come round to Strauss. He has been closely involved with the majority of the squad and proved himself an extremely tough competitor. He's probably taking Harley out of the 1st XV, with Ashe or Denton at 8, and he'll add far more go forward than Harley without losing much in defence. All in all he improves the back row.

As RDW says though, real shame we can't use him in a warm-up game, but I really don't think these matches will be much of a proxy for the real thing, and he can get a cap under his belt against Japan.

by TJ Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:47 am

Loving the Owens clip!

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:49 am

Captain_Sensible wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I reckon we'll know a lot more after this match. If Denton or Ashe come in and play well we shouldn't need Strauss. He can go back to Glasgow and debut in the 6N.

However if Denton or Ashe fail to inspire in these warm ups Cotter's decision will be much more difficult. Barclay at 8 can work, it has done for the Scarlets this year and the simple truth is he has played more rugby at 8 than he has at 7 this season so even if Denton and Ashe don't play well Cotter has another option.

My feelings on Strauss are clear, however these games we need to look at combinations and building units that we can slot into place for the RWC itself. I don't want to hand out a Valuable squad berth to a player who hasn't played a test match yet.

I don't think any other team with our wealth of talent in the backrow would consider it an option either.

In my view, discarding Strauss at this stage would be utter madness. He's miles ahead of the other options at 8, and perhaps even 6.

Lets just assume for 1 minute that I agree with you.

A back row that performs as a unit will always be a better back row than one that performs as individuals. The whole point in these warm up games is to test and try combinations to see what works. Strauss will not be taking part, his residency is a bit of inconvenient timing, however can we really hold a place for him based on what he might be able to do?

What if Ashe and Denton rampage around the field, score tries, carry strongly and do everything that is asked of them, which one do you cut Captain?

by Captain_Sensible Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:51 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Captain_Sensible wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I reckon we'll know a lot more after this match. If Denton or Ashe come in and play well we shouldn't need Strauss. He can go back to Glasgow and debut in the 6N.

However if Denton or Ashe fail to inspire in these warm ups Cotter's decision will be much more difficult. Barclay at 8 can work, it has done for the Scarlets this year and the simple truth is he has played more rugby at 8 than he has at 7 this season so even if Denton and Ashe don't play well Cotter has another option.

My feelings on Strauss are clear, however these games we need to look at combinations and building units that we can slot into place for the RWC itself. I don't want to hand out a Valuable squad berth to a player who hasn't played a test match yet.

I don't think any other team with our wealth of talent in the backrow would consider it an option either.

In my view, discarding Strauss at this stage would be utter madness. He's miles ahead of the other options at 8, and perhaps even 6.

Lets just assume for 1 minute that I agree with you.

A back row that performs as a unit will always be a better back row than one that performs as individuals. The whole point in these warm up games is to test and try combinations to see what works. Strauss will not be taking part, his residency is a bit of inconvenient timing, however can we really hold a place for him based on what he might be able to do?

What if Ashe and Denton rampage around the field, score tries, carry strongly and do everything that is asked of them, which one do you cut Captain?

I'd have all three. Plus Harley, Barclay and one other openside. I think we need as many ball carriers in the squad as possible.

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:52 am

I'd be much warmer to Strauss at 6.

by Captain_Sensible Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:55 am

Captain_Sensible wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Captain_Sensible wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I reckon we'll know a lot more after this match. If Denton or Ashe come in and play well we shouldn't need Strauss. He can go back to Glasgow and debut in the 6N.

However if Denton or Ashe fail to inspire in these warm ups Cotter's decision will be much more difficult. Barclay at 8 can work, it has done for the Scarlets this year and the simple truth is he has played more rugby at 8 than he has at 7 this season so even if Denton and Ashe don't play well Cotter has another option.

My feelings on Strauss are clear, however these games we need to look at combinations and building units that we can slot into place for the RWC itself. I don't want to hand out a Valuable squad berth to a player who hasn't played a test match yet.

I don't think any other team with our wealth of talent in the backrow would consider it an option either.

In my view, discarding Strauss at this stage would be utter madness. He's miles ahead of the other options at 8, and perhaps even 6.

Lets just assume for 1 minute that I agree with you.

A back row that performs as a unit will always be a better back row than one that performs as individuals. The whole point in these warm up games is to test and try combinations to see what works. Strauss will not be taking part, his residency is a bit of inconvenient timing, however can we really hold a place for him based on what he might be able to do?

What if Ashe and Denton rampage around the field, score tries, carry strongly and do everything that is asked of them, which one do you cut Captain?

I'd have all three. Plus Harley, Barclay and one other openside. I think we need as many ball carriers in the squad as possible.

It's also worth mentioning that Strauss has played in the same backrow as Harley and Ashe all season. Frankly, I don't think 'familiarity' will be an issue.

by funnyExiledScot Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:55 am

I think Strauss plays better at 6 as well, with another ball carrier in the back row. In fact I think a Strauss, Barclay and Denton back row could be the mut's nuts.

by Captain_Sensible Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:57 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:I think Strauss plays better at 6 as well, with another ball carrier in the back row. In fact I think a Strauss, Barclay and Denton back row could be the mut's nuts.

Yep, this is my preferred solution too. Harsh on Harley, but hey ho. I'd probably be more tempted by Ashe than Denton at 8, though. I still don't think Denton gets through enough work or distributes well enough.

by **RDW** Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:58 am

In terms of the warm up games, it is probably worth remembering that Batman is banned for the first two. That means for the first two games we have Harley, Stokosh Ashe and Denton to choose from for the 6/8 slots.

Will probably be one 6 and 8 for the first one then the other two for the second I can imagine.

by Weegie Wizard Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:01 am

Yup. Sorry Radge, normally I would go along with your thinking there but, for me, Strauss is so far ahead of our other options that I think we should make an exception for him.

In order, those first on the team sheet should be Hogg, Gray Jnr, Russell then Strauss.

by **George Carlin** Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:14 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:In terms of the warm up games, it is probably worth remembering that Batman is banned for the first two. That means for the first two games we have Harley, Stokosh Ashe and Denton to choose from for the 6/8 slots.

Will probably be one 6 and 8 for the first one then the other two for the second I can imagine.

Really? Odd that he can play domestic rugby but not international? Shocked

by **RDW** Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:21 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31132973

by **George Carlin** Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:27 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31132973

Ireland v Scotland, 15 August - Page 2 Fes_fa10

by Weegie Wizard Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:27 am

So I wonder if he will stay in the squad when those games are on or play the opening games for the Warriors?

by IanBru Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:40 am

There seems to be some confusion about the events and persons involved on that fateful night so I think it only right that you receive this brief refresher course. Fes, GC and others, this course will count towards your CPD.

Name

Ryan Wilson

Ryan Grant

Rory Hughes

Richie Vernon

Gavin Quinn

Ally Maclay

AN Other

AKA

Batman

Bane

TBC

Shark

Minion

Tweedle Dee

Red Crayon

Photofit

Ireland v Scotland, 15 August - Page 2 611avdFVswL._SL1200_

Ireland v Scotland, 15 August - Page 2 804205

TBC

Ireland v Scotland, 15 August - Page 2 9665b037ebbaf6890af4cf0f5f6d5974

Ireland v Scotland, 15 August - Page 2 889720-Mens-Minion-Dave-Costume-large

Ireland v Scotland, 15 August - Page 2 Kids-tweedle-dee--dum-costume

Ireland v Scotland, 15 August - Page 2 Adult-red-crayon-costume

by **George Carlin** Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:47 am

Irish posters - you'd be perfectly entitled to wonder WTF is going on here.

Unfortunately, if you're a Scotland fan, it all makes perfect sense.

by funnyExiledScot Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:49 am

Captain_Sensible wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:I think Strauss plays better at 6 as well, with another ball carrier in the back row. In fact I think a Strauss, Barclay and Denton back row could be the mut's nuts.

Yep, this is my preferred solution too. Harsh on Harley, but hey ho. I'd probably be more tempted by Ashe than Denton at 8, though. I still don't think Denton gets through enough work or distributes well enough.

Denton vs Ashe is a pretty close call for me. I'd be happy with them both getting two group games (Denton for Japan and SA, and Ashe for USA and Samoa), with the better perfomer playing in the QF, SF and Final.

by funnyExiledScot Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:50 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31132973

I had overlooked the fact that Wilson was fined £750. Jeez, they really threw the book at him.....

by **RDW** Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:52 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31132973

I had overlooked the fact that Wilson was fined £750. Jeez, they really threw the book at him.....

The 3 months without pay was probably the main problem for him...

by TJ Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:54 am

Irish fans - If we get our guys to let you win will you promise not to break any of our players? We really can't afford to have any more broken

by funnyExiledScot Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:56 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31132973

I had overlooked the fact that Wilson was fined £750. Jeez, they really threw the book at him.....

The 3 months without pay was probably the main problem for him...

He'll make that back in Panto season.....

by R!skysports Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:14 am

What I really worry about is how we are starting to push Barclay as the saviour

Have we not learnt yet from our ability to talk up players who are currently not playing (i.e. the less they play the better they get)

some recent examples

Beattie - yes, we talked him up when not playing for Scotland
McMisser - international saviour
NDL - (just for FES)
Brown - will soon be a god

I think we should really take a chill pill and see if he actually still has it....

by asoreleftshoulder Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:22 am

George Carlin wrote:Irish posters - you'd be perfectly entitled to wonder WTF is going on here.

Unfortunately, if you're a Scotland fan, it all makes perfect sense.

I've lurked on enough Scottish threads to understand what's going on but that reminder of which nickname refers to which player is both hilarious and surprisingly informative and easy to understand.

by funnyExiledScot Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:24 am

Risky - it's a fair point you make. Nothing quite enhances the reputation of a Scottish rugby player like an extended absence from actually playing!

by bsando Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:32 am

I would love to see a Bolter included in the final squad. Imagine if VC has said he is taking one Bolter with him, it would give the younger players something huge to play for. As well as that, it would mean one experienced player would not be included which would increase the level of competition.

by funnyExiledScot Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:44 am

I guess it depends of what constitutes a "bolter". Hardie would be the most obvious "bolter", given that he really has come out of the blue (or black I should say), but would you consider someone like Watson or Jackson to be a "bolter"?

I think if someone like Hughes or Hoyland were to make it, or Dell, then that would be a shock!

by **Notch** Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:52 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:I doubt any other team is going into the world cup looking to play a player with no caps!

You're forgetting how loopy the French are- in 2011 they gave Doussain his test debut in the World Cup FINAL never mind the World Cup Smile

by **George Carlin** Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:55 am

I think the fact that Harley is listed as a lock rather suggests that Vern sees Strauss as a blindside too, leaving Denton, Ashe and probably Wilson to scrap for the number 8 shirt.

I think that Beattie has had his chips and quite rightly. He was given all 6N to improve and he didn't.

When Du Preez becomes SQ, it's party time.

by jimbopip Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:02 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Irish posters - you'd be perfectly entitled to wonder WTF is going on here.

Unfortunately, if you're a Scotland fan, it all makes perfect sense.

I've lurked on enough Scottish threads to understand what's going on but that reminder of which nickname refers to which player is both hilarious and surprisingly informative and easy to understand.

Mr Shoulder you have , coincidentally, provided a perfect description of Ian Bru (before the Horlicks and Glenmorangie kicks in)

by Pot Hale Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:06 pm

Notch wrote:

We have three warm-up games and minus the five or six players who will be cut from the squad before Scotland, everyone will be getting some game time in those matches. Our hardest game will be England away from home, which is after the Scotland game. Our final game is against Wales at home- that is after the final selection and will probably be used to give our strongest team some time together.

So in our next game- it's hard to tell who will start. But I would say we are likely to see some of the really key players sit it out and play in the last two games. At the same time, there are a number of players who need game time due to not playing much last season including Chris Henry, Andrew Trimble (if recovered from mild injury which forced him off on Saturday), Madigan (who played a fair bit but needs time at out half AND centre), Donnacha Ryan and Paddy Jackson (who played a bit but needs time kicking at goal).

Here's my guess at the team;

1. Dave Kilcoyne
2. Sean Cronin
3. Martin Moore*
4. Donnacha Ryan
5. Dan Tuohy
6. Iain Henderson
7. Chris Henry
8. Jordi Murphy
9. Isaac Boss
10. Paddy Jackson
11. Simon Zebo
12. Ian Madigan
13. Robbie Henshaw
14. Andrew Trimble*
15. Felix Jones

16. Rory Best 17. Michael Bent 18. Mike Ross 19. Devin Toner 20. Jamie Heaslip 21. Eoin Reddan 22. Darren Cave 23. Luke Fitzgerald*/Keith Earls

*May not be available due to injury niggle

Then, the next week against England we will see some of the big names come back into the starting line-up; Sean O'Brien, Peter O'Mahony, Jonny Sexton, Paul O'Connell, Jared Payne, Rob Kearney, Tommy Bowe and Jamie Heaslip and Best back in.

Notch, it's Wales game in Dublin after Scotland. Squad 31 are then picked on 31st August. Final tune-up game is against England in Twickenham in early Sept.

Gatland will be coming to town determined to make a very heavy mark on Ireland - particularly after last weekend. So I reckon Schmidt has to give gametime to some of the players who'll be featuring in that match - which I reckon will almost be a full first team.

As someone posted earlier, the Scotland match is a chance to give the remaining outliers a chance to make their mark. Schmidt is going to trim 5/6 players before Thursday, and then name the team - from various that would seem to include players such as Furlong, Conan, and possibly Gilroy.

Who needs the starting run-out to enhance their chances, and who needs game-time as a first team player is likely to be the measure used, in my view.

So, none of the front row from Saturday, to be replaced by:

Kilcoyne, Bent, and possibly Herring with Cronin on the bench.

Ryan needs more time in the second row, along with Tuohy - if they make an effective partnership

Backrowers - Henderson - to prove his utility role, Henry (needs game time particularly with O'Donnell gone), and I'd reckon Jordi Murphy (for utility sakes)

Scrum-half should be Marmion starting with Boss getting the pick-up role in second half.

10 - I presume Madigan gets the starting berth this week, with Jackson ready to step in if required.

12 - Darcy - who's been out of the test loop, or Cave to give him another chance to shine against what will be undoubtedly a sterner defence - and attack.

13. He could go for Henshaw, but I don't think he needs time in the role, compared to others. Not sure about this one. Possibly Madigan at 12 and Darcy at 13??

Back three - the most difficult selections. Does he try another player at FB for utility sake, as he indicated at the post-match interview e.g. Zebo? He could try Earls on the wing, and Trimble on the other with Fitzgerald waiting in the wings.

Possible bench players - Cronin, McGrath/Bent, Toner, O'Mahony, Boss, Jackson, D Kearney.

Jeez - who'd want to be a selector....

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