Ireland v Scotland, 15 August

by **George Carlin** Sun 09 Aug 2015, 10:04

IRELAND v SCOTLAND
15 August 2015
KO: 17:00 local
Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Live on Sky Sports at Notch's house

Referee: Pascal Gaüzère (France)
Assistant Referees: [TBC]
TMO: [TBC]

A. Head to Head

130 Played 130
59 Won 66
5 Drawn 5
66 Lost 59
1,416 Points 1,420

B. Recent Form

21 March 2015
BT Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
10 – 40 to Ireland

2 February 2014
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
28 – 6 to Ireland

24 February 2013
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
12 – 8 to Scotland

10 March 2012
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
32 – 14 to Ireland

6 August 2011
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
10 – 6 to Scotland

27 February 2011
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
18 – 21 to Ireland

20 March 2010
Croke Park, Dublin
20 – 23 to Scotland

C. Teams

IRELAND
Ireland v Scotland, 15 August Father11

15. Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)
14. Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
13. Jared Payne (Ulster)
12. Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11. Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock/Leinster)
10. Ian Madigan (Blackrock/Leinster)
09. Isaac Boss (Terenure/Leinster)

08. Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster) capt
07. Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster)
06. Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster)*
05. Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
04. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
03. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
02. Sean Cronin (St Mary's College/Leinster)
01. Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster)

16. Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)
17. Michael Bent (Dublin University/Leinster)
18. Nathan White (Connacht)*
19. Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
20. Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21. Eoin Reddan (Old Crescent/Leinster)
22. Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
23. Dave Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)

SCOTLAND
Ireland v Scotland, 15 August Glasgo10

15 Ruaridh Jackson (Wasps)
14 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors)
13 Richie Vernon (Glasgow Warriors)
12 Peter Horne (Glasgow Warriors)
11 Tim Visser (Harlequins)
10 Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby)
09 Henry Pyrgos CAPTAIN (Glasgow Warriors)

01 Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors)
02 Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors)
03 Jon Welsh (Newcastle Falcons)
04 Jim Hamilton (Saracens)
05 Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby)
06 Blair Cowan (London Irish)
07 Hugh Blake (Glasgow Warriors)
08 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby)

16 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby)
17 Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors)
18 Mike Cusack (Glasgow Warriors)
19 Rob Harley (Glasgow Warriors)
20 John Barclay (Scarlets)
21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby)
22 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors)
23 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby)

by **RDW** Sun 09 Aug 2015, 10:09

So are Ireland going to put out a stronger team this weekend then since several key players didn't play yesterday?

by alive555 Sun 09 Aug 2015, 10:16

Lest talk about who we want to see and who we dont. Heres my we do list laughing

Scott
Dunbar
Bennett
Horne
Maitland
Cusiter / SHC bench
Barclay at 8 (next game openside)
Cusack
Reid
Welsh
Mcinally
Brown
Ashe
Weir
Nel
Gilchrist
Hardie
Watson
Strauss ghost

pick n mix away folks

by **RDW** Sun 09 Aug 2015, 10:18

Don't buy this Barclay at 8 chat - why do that when Strauss, Ashe and Denton are available?

by **George Carlin** Sun 09 Aug 2015, 10:29

RDW_Scotland wrote:Don't buy this Barclay at 8 chat - why do that when Strauss, Ashe and Denton are available?

One is not available for selection for another 2 months, one is very young and we know what he can do and one is a one-dimensional show pony who looks like a labradoodle with chronic diarrhoea.

I'll let you decide which player is which. Run

(I'm back from holiday, by the way).

by **RDW** Sun 09 Aug 2015, 10:35

And one is 6ft 1 and 16st - which is obviously big enough to be an international number 8...

by **George Carlin** Sun 09 Aug 2015, 10:39

Surprising. I would have thought that Dozer's hair was 16 stones all on its own.

by TJ Sun 09 Aug 2015, 10:42

If you want to give the fringe players a game - pick Hamish Watson.

by alive555 Sun 09 Aug 2015, 11:01

RDW_Scotland wrote:And one is 6ft 1 and 16st - which is obviously big enough to be an international number 8...

agree. wtf did it write that !

so that means denton and ashe in every game

by reallybored Sun 09 Aug 2015, 14:34

1 - Grant
2 - Brown
3 - Nel
4 - Gray Snr
5 - Gilchrist
6 - Wilson
7 - Barclay
8 - Denton

9 - Hidalgo-Clyne
10 - Jackson
11 - Visser
12 - Horne
13 - Vernon
14 - Hoyland
15 - Tonks ( Maitland if fit )

16 - McInally
17 - Reid
18 - Welsh
19 - Toolis
20 - Cowan
21 - Cusiter
22 - Weir
23 - Lamont

by **George Carlin** Sun 09 Aug 2015, 14:41

Quite like that team, RB.

What do Ireland fans think that Schmidt is trying to achieve with this series of warm-up games? Other than victories, obviously.

With Scotland, it's less about combinations and more about desperately trying to get match time for a few players who were, until quite recently, fairly badly broken.

by **profitius** Sun 09 Aug 2015, 14:53

I'm guessing Ireland will be something like the following. The squad is due to be cut this week.

1 - Kilcoyne
2 - Herring
3 - Furlong/Bent
4 - Toner
5 - Tuohy
6 - POM
7 - SOB
8 - Conan
9 - Marmion/Murray
10 - Madigan
11 - Fitzgerald
12 - D'Arcy
13 - Payne
14 - Dave Kearney
15 - Rob Kearney

16 - Best
17 - Bent/McGrath
18 - Ross
19 - Ryan
20 - SOB
21 - Jackson
22 - Reddan/Boss
23 - Jones

by **RDW** Sun 09 Aug 2015, 15:08

I think our first priorities need to be

A) capping WP Nel
B) giving players that have been injured some game time

So that means Gilchrist, Gray snr, Denton, Jackson and whoever else from the backline who are now fit having been injured!

by SirBurger Sun 09 Aug 2015, 15:35

Don't think Maitland will be fit. He was down at Irish in the week during rehab work. I expect that wouldn't have been the case if he was close to selection.

by alive555 Sun 09 Aug 2015, 16:48

reallybored wrote:1 - Grant
2 - Brown
3 - Nel
4 - Gray Snr
5 - Gilchrist
6 - Wilson
7 - Barclay
8 - Denton

9 - Hidalgo-Clyne
10 - Jackson
11 - Visser
12 - Horne
13 - Vernon
14 - Hoyland
15 - Tonks ( Maitland if fit )

16 - McInally
17 - Reid
18 - Welsh
19 - Toolis
20 - Cowan
21 - Cusiter
22 - Weir
23 - Lamont

Cant see hoyland making it just yet, also surely with only 2 games till squad finilised (end of august) will have either watson or hardie featuring. Also didnt know toolis is in the squad - thought it was hamilton ?

by **RDW** Sun 09 Aug 2015, 16:54

Toolis replaced Swinson.

And there's 3 games until the squad is chosen!

by alive555 Sun 09 Aug 2015, 17:05

RDW_Scotland wrote:Toolis replaced Swinson.

And there's 3 games until the squad is chosen!

aha . Tollis is better than swinston and so we will have 3 wins this month to toast.

pass the macallan 18

by Prothero Sun 09 Aug 2015, 19:52

Personally Id like to see our first choice pack (Minus Strauss) against the Irish to try and settle the set piece. As i suspect we wouldn't dare against the French so close to the start of the tournament and the italian's may not want to play there first choice 15 in either game so my be somewhat blunted.

The Irish at the Aviva are sure to test out our pack so that we can see where we are and what level we need to attain and any poor showing by the jersey holder incentives his competitor for the jersey in the other games.

by **Notch** Sun 09 Aug 2015, 20:42

profitius wrote:I'm guessing Ireland will be something like the following. The squad is due to be cut this week.

1 - Kilcoyne
2 - Herring
3 - Furlong/Bent
4 - Toner
5 - Tuohy
6 - POM
7 - SOB
8 - Conan
9 - Marmion/Murray
10 - Madigan
11 - Fitzgerald
12 - D'Arcy
13 - Payne
14 - Dave Kearney
15 - Rob Kearney

16 - Best
17 - Bent/McGrath
18 - Ross
19 - Ryan
20 - SOB
21 - Jackson
22 - Reddan/Boss
23 - Jones

The players in bold are the ones I don't think will make the cut.

by **RDW** Sun 09 Aug 2015, 20:49

So are Ireland's big guns not likely to play this one?

by **Notch** Sun 09 Aug 2015, 20:59

Maybe, maybe not.

by Cloggie Sun 09 Aug 2015, 21:23

I think it's quite likely for Gordon D'Arcy to be cut from the squad this week. That would, of course, effectively end his (impressive) Ireland career in a distinctly unglamorous manner, but Joe Schmidt can be quite ruthless when he needs to be...

by **Notch** Mon 10 Aug 2015, 00:08

What follows is guesswork and speculation about what kind of side Ireland will name. I don't know anything, Schmidt has kept his cards close to his chest, but this is a forum where we all waffle on at great length about things we can't possibly know for sure so... why shouldn't I give waffling on at great length a go to give us something to talk about until the team is picked? I apologise in advance if any player I mention has an injury doubt I don't know about. I'm including a few guys who might be doubts but will mark them with a *

We have three warm-up games and minus the five or six players who will be cut from the squad before Scotland, everyone will be getting some game time in those matches. Our hardest game will be England away from home, which is after the Scotland game. Our final game is against Wales at home- that is after the final selection and will probably be used to give our strongest team some time together.

So in our next game- it's hard to tell who will start. But I would say we are likely to see some of the really key players sit it out and play in the last two games. At the same time, there are a number of players who need game time due to not playing much last season including Chris Henry, Andrew Trimble (if recovered from mild injury which forced him off on Saturday), Madigan (who played a fair bit but needs time at out half AND centre), Donnacha Ryan and Paddy Jackson (who played a bit but needs time kicking at goal).

I'm convinced that Schmidt will not risk traveling without three players who can cover out half which means all three 10s in our squad will travel. Madigan will travel as a player who can cover 10 and 12 and Jackson will be competing with him for that bench spot. Schmidt has mentioned that some players who played a lot of rugby last season have been given longer pre-seasons hence the squad for Wales leaving out many of the guys who carried the national team last season. The bionic man of Irish Rugby Jamie Heaslip is seemingly the exception to that rule but you'd imagine that would go for some of the key players- O'Mahony, Murray, O'Connell and of course Sexton. Sexton especially, being outside the player welfare programs of the IRFU, will be one of those guys who played a lot of rugby. So against Scotland I expect Jackson and Madigan to be the 10s and Sexton not be involved. If I had to guess either Jackson will start at 10 and Madigan at 12 or Madigan will start at 10, and move to 12 later in the game with Jackson coming on at 10 in the second half and taking over the kicking duties.

Other positions; Sean Cronin was not involved at all last week, expecting him to get one start and this is as good a game as any. Best played well off the bench against Wales and is a known quantity so he'll probably continue getting minutes there. At prop we don't have many options- Michael Bent played well coming on at tight head, and he is being groomed as our fifth prop covering both sides of the scrum. This would allow us to take five props as opposed to six. Wouldn't be surprised to see him getting game time at loose head this week. Kilcoyne will need a start too with the doubts over Healy. If Moore is fit, he needs game time. If he is a doubt we may see Furlong. Ross needs time on the pitch to get his fitness up so don't be surprised to see him on the bench. Ryan needs more game time and Tuohy needs a chance to show what he can do, expecting those two to feature. Henderson will probably be tested at blindside as well as lock and this is the perfect game to try it with O'Mahony probably not coming back. Would be surprised to see Heaslip start two games in a row, so Murphy at 8. Henry at 7 played little rugby for Ulster last season.

In the centres we've seen Earls and Cave now we're likely to see a new combination- possibly seeing Henshaw or Cave covering that outside centre position. In the back three, Trimble needs game time if he's fit and so do Zebo and Fitzgerald. Gilroy, McFadden or Dave Kearney may feature if they make the cut.

Here's my guess at the team;

1. Dave Kilcoyne
2. Sean Cronin
3. Martin Moore*
4. Donnacha Ryan
5. Dan Tuohy
6. Iain Henderson
7. Chris Henry
8. Jordi Murphy
9. Isaac Boss
10. Paddy Jackson
11. Simon Zebo
12. Ian Madigan
13. Robbie Henshaw
14. Andrew Trimble*
15. Felix Jones

16. Rory Best 17. Michael Bent 18. Mike Ross 19. Devin Toner 20. Jamie Heaslip 21. Eoin Reddan 22. Darren Cave 23. Luke Fitzgerald*/Keith Earls

*May not be available due to injury niggle

Then, the next week against England we will see some of the big names come back into the starting line-up; Sean O'Brien, Peter O'Mahony, Jonny Sexton, Paul O'Connell, Jared Payne, Rob Kearney, Tommy Bowe and Jamie Heaslip and Best back in.

by **Notch** Mon 10 Aug 2015, 03:11

The Ireland coach said that some of the team who played so well at the Millennium Stadium will be retained in the matchday squad that faces Scotland on Saturday, with a number of replacements likely to be given their opportunity from the start. "There will be changes," he said. "But I don't think that we will be putting out a new 15.

"There will be guys who double up and it may be that the guys who double up, maybe they will come from the bench to the starting line-up and maybe there will be a couple who get out there and start again.

"Those are some of the decisions we are now seeing a bit of, there are some guys, who, if we feel like we need to see a bit more of them next week... that we have tried to keep it pretty fluid."

Read into that what you will. Independent describes Furlong, Conan and Gilroy as being close to the exit door. Seems players cut from the squad will still be monitored- they are basically being sent to play for their provinces in pre-season games. But it's obvious that the guys retained are going to be well ahead of them in the pecking order.

by alive555 Mon 10 Aug 2015, 05:41

1 - Grant
2 - Brown
3 - Nel
4 - Gray Snr
5 - Gilchrist
6 - Wilson
7 - Barclay
8 - Denton

9 - Hidalgo-Clyne
10 - Jackson
11 - Visser
12 - Horne
13 - Vernon
14 - Hoyland
15 - Tonks ( Maitland if fit )

16 - McInally
17 - Reid
18 - Welsh
19 - Toolis
20 - Cowan
21 - Cusiter
22 - Weir

if thats the team we are playing our B team for this one (exceptions being cowan / barclay and SHC might go before Laidlaw)

by **George Carlin** Mon 10 Aug 2015, 06:25

I think I will lose my sh!t if I see Blair Cowan anywhere near a warm-up game squad. He got the entire 6 Nations to himself and we know what he's about by now.

Conversely, we have FOUR (count the feckers) opensides waiting in the wings in Watson, Barclay, Hardie and Blake, ALL of whom are potentially better choices than Cowan. What is the point of having these guys in the squad if not to see their playing chops.

From a Scotland perspective, we need to give the newbies and the recently injured a realistic chance to make the squad for the big show. We need to see Nel, Gilchrist, Scott, Bennett and one of Barclay or Hardie for me.

by **RDW** Mon 10 Aug 2015, 06:44

Game week!

Finally we have something to properly discuss, after months of repetition and general crap-sprouting!

by **George Carlin** Mon 10 Aug 2015, 06:46

RDW_Scotland wrote:Game week!

Finally we have something to properly discuss, after months of ~~repetition and general crap-sprouting intelligent and~~ incisive but non-rugby related socio-cultural commentary!

by **RDW** Mon 10 Aug 2015, 07:47

Saw this from the recent SRU AGM

The “unacceptable” Six Nations whitewash was acknowledged but Scotland head coach Vern Cotter, who was in attendance, was given a vote of confidence as the squad head into the World Cup.

That's a right kiss of death for Cotter - normally a manager getting a vote of confidence means that he'll be sacked within a week!

by alive555 Mon 10 Aug 2015, 08:14

George Carlin wrote:I think I will lose my sh!t if I see Blair Cowan anywhere near a warm-up game squad. He got the entire 6 Nations to himself and we know what he's about by now.

Conversely, we have FOUR (count the feckers) opensides waiting in the wings in Watson, Barclay, Hardie and Blake, ALL of whom are potentially better choices than Cowan. What is the point of having these guys in the squad if not to see their playing chops.

From a Scotland perspective, we need to give the newbies and the recently injured a realistic chance to make the squad for the big show. We need to see Nel, Gilchrist, Scott, Bennett and one of Barclay or Hardie for me.

Agree.

We all know what Cowan brings so i really want to see either Hardie & Watson in 2 of the first 3 warm up games. Barcs / Cowan in the other.

Unless Hardie and Watson both put in massive shifts, imho one of them wont make its as i think Cowan is a shoe in and Barcs has bit experienced and some form to call on.

No ?

by **George Carlin** Mon 10 Aug 2015, 09:13

All right then - the side which I would like to see but which will never, ever happen is:

01. Grant
02. Brown
03. Nel
04. Gray Jnr
05. Gilchrist
06. Denton
07. Hardie
08. Barclay

09. Hidalgo-Clyne
10. Russell
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. Bennett
14. Seymour
15. Hogg

16. McInally
17. Reid
18. Welsh
19. Toolis
20. Watson
21. Laidlaw
22. Weir
23. Maitland/Tonks

by funnyExiledScot Mon 10 Aug 2015, 09:21

George Carlin wrote:I think I will lose my sh!t if I see Blair Cowan anywhere near a warm-up game squad. He got the entire 6 Nations to himself and we know what he's about by now.

Conversely, we have FOUR (count the feckers) opensides waiting in the wings in Watson, Barclay, Hardie and Blake, ALL of whom are potentially better choices than Cowan. What is the point of having these guys in the squad if not to see their playing chops.

Whilst I'm no big fan of Blair Cowan, he certainly has more claim to the 7 jersey than Blake. Please remember that Blake has barely featured in a professional rugby match, whereas Cowan has been almost ever present for Irish and Scotland this year.

I also don't buy the argument that "we know what Cowan can do, therefore try someone else" rings true for Blake either. Why not give me a game? No-one, and I mean no-one, knows what I can do for Scotland at 7? We also know what Barclay can do, so does he get excluded as well so we can experiment with players we know very little about on the Eve of the World Cup. I can't believe any Weegie fan, given the high opinion of the MFL, would advocate the 3rd/4th choice openside at Edinburgh getting precious gametime ahead of the World Cup.

The 7 jersey should be a three way contest between the three players who have performed strongly this season, and who are familiar with the players within the squad - Barclay, Watson and Cowan. With 5 warm-up games I would give Barclay and Watson 2 matches each, and Cowan the remaining fixture.

Re: Hardie and Blake you ask a very good question: "what is the point of having these guys in the squad"?

by funnyExiledScot Mon 10 Aug 2015, 09:23

George Carlin wrote:All right then - the side which I would like to see but which will never, ever happen is:

01. Grant
02. Brown
03. Nel
04. Gray Jnr
05. Gilchrist
06. Denton
07. Hardie
08. Barclay

09. Hidalgo-Clyne
10. Russell
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. Bennett
14. Seymour
15. Hogg

Very funny Andy Robinson. Stop hacking GC's email account.

by **RDW** Mon 10 Aug 2015, 09:24

funnyExiledScot wrote:
George Carlin wrote:I think I will lose my sh!t if I see Blair Cowan anywhere near a warm-up game squad. He got the entire 6 Nations to himself and we know what he's about by now.

Conversely, we have FOUR (count the feckers) opensides waiting in the wings in Watson, Barclay, Hardie and Blake, ALL of whom are potentially better choices than Cowan. What is the point of having these guys in the squad if not to see their playing chops.

Whilst I'm no big fan of Blair Cowan, he certainly has more claim to the 7 jersey than Blake. Please remember that Blake has barely featured in a professional rugby match, whereas Cowan has been almost ever present for Irish and Scotland this year.

I also don't buy the argument that "we know what Cowan can do, therefore try someone else" rings true for Blake either. Why not give me a game? No-one, and I mean no-one, knows what I can do for Scotland at 7? We also know what Barclay can do, so does he get excluded as well so we can experiment with players we know very little about on the Eve of the World Cup. I can't believe any Weegie fan, given the high opinion of the MFL, would advocate the 3rd/4th choice openside at Edinburgh getting precious gametime ahead of the World Cup.

The 7 jersey should be a three way contest between the three players who have performed strongly this season, and who are familiar with the players within the squad - Barclay, Watson and Cowan. With 5 4 warm-up games I would give Barclay and Watson 2 matches each, and Cowan the remaining fixture.

Re: Hardie and Blake you ask a very good question: "what is the point of having these guys in the squad"?

by **George Carlin** Mon 10 Aug 2015, 09:26

RDW_Scotland wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
George Carlin wrote:I think I will lose my sh!t if I see Blair Cowan anywhere near a warm-up game squad. He got the entire 6 Nations to himself and we know what he's about by now.

Conversely, we have FOUR (count the feckers) opensides waiting in the wings in Watson, Barclay, Hardie and Blake, ALL of whom are potentially better choices than Cowan. What is the point of having these guys in the squad if not to see their playing chops.

Whilst I'm no big fan of Blair Cowan, he certainly has more claim to the 7 jersey than Blake. Please remember that Blake has barely featured in a professional rugby match, whereas Cowan has been almost ever present for Irish and Scotland this year.

I also don't buy the argument that "we know what Cowan can do, therefore try someone else" rings true for Blake either. Why not give me a game? No-one, and I mean no-one, knows what I can do for Scotland at 7? We also know what Barclay can do, so does he get excluded as well so we can experiment with players we know very little about on the Eve of the World Cup. I can't believe any Weegie fan, given the high opinion of the MFL, would advocate the 3rd/4th choice openside at Edinburgh getting precious gametime ahead of the World Cup.

The 7 jersey should be a three way contest between the three players who have performed strongly this season, and who are familiar with the players within the squad - Barclay, Watson and Cowan. With 5 4 warm-up games I would give Barclay and Watson 2 matches each, and Cowan the remaining fixture.

Re: Hardie and Blake you ask a very good question: "what is the point of having these guys in the squad"?

Leave him alone. Lawyers don't 'do' numbers, only letters.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 10 Aug 2015, 09:28

Ok ok, there are IV warm-up games.....even less reason to p*ss about with Hardie and Blake....

by **George Carlin** Mon 10 Aug 2015, 09:33

funnyExiledScot wrote:
George Carlin wrote:I think I will lose my sh!t if I see Blair Cowan anywhere near a warm-up game squad. He got the entire 6 Nations to himself and we know what he's about by now.

Conversely, we have FOUR (count the feckers) opensides waiting in the wings in Watson, Barclay, Hardie and Blake, ALL of whom are potentially better choices than Cowan. What is the point of having these guys in the squad if not to see their playing chops.

Whilst I'm no big fan of Blair Cowan, he certainly has more claim to the 7 jersey than Blake. Please remember that Blake has barely featured in a professional rugby match, whereas Cowan has been almost ever present for Irish and Scotland this year.

I also don't buy the argument that "we know what Cowan can do, therefore try someone else" rings true for Blake either. Why not give me a game? No-one, and I mean no-one, knows what I can do for Scotland at 7? We also know what Barclay can do, so does he get excluded as well so we can experiment with players we know very little about on the Eve of the World Cup. I can't believe any Weegie fan, given the high opinion of the MFL, would advocate the 3rd/4th choice openside at Edinburgh getting precious gametime ahead of the World Cup.

The 7 jersey should be a three way contest between the three players who have performed strongly this season, and who are familiar with the players within the squad - Barclay, Watson and Cowan. With 5 warm-up games I would give Barclay and Watson 2 matches each, and Cowan the remaining fixture.

Re: Hardie and Blake you ask a very good question: "what is the point of having these guys in the squad"?

Call me suspicious, but I am sensing that you may have something of a fixed point of view on some of those players already.

Just to be clear - I am ignoring Blake. He hasn't even played a club game for a Scottish franchise and has little recent pro experience to speak of. He won't be anywhere near a squad.

Barclay hasn't been in the international set up for years and Hardie hasn't ever. This is why it is worthwhile seeing how they cope with the transition. Are you honestly suggesting that it is not worth giving either of those players game time? Is it really not in your contemplation that one of those two (or both of them) may have something extra to offer the national team?

I am a fan of Watson, which is why I put him on my bench. I don't feel particularly strongly which openside starts as long as a new candidate does. I am concerned that given his injury problems, playing 40 minutes is probably sufficient for the first game.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 10 Aug 2015, 09:40

I have no fixed viewpoint on either of Blake or Hardie. I just judge players on how they perform on a rugby pitch, and how they perform in tandem with their team mates. This is the pre-World Cup squad, and I have nothing upon which to build a case for selecting either of these guys. You certainly won't get a full picture in a warm-up game with players trying to avoid injury. It's simply too late for these guys, that's all I'm saying. Hardie clearly has pedigree and if this was a summer tour, a year ago, I'd be delighted to see his capabilities in blue.

Re: Barclay, as you can read for yourself in the very post you've quoted, I would certainly involve him in these games. He's been on red hot form this year and has a bunch of international experience. In fact he's my front runner to play 7 against the Boks. I've said many times, if I were taking two 7s to the World Cup I'd take Barclay and Watson. That's picking one experienced international player on great form, and one up and coming youngster on great form. What's not to like.

by **RDW** Mon 10 Aug 2015, 09:40

George Carlin wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
George Carlin wrote:I think I will lose my sh!t if I see Blair Cowan anywhere near a warm-up game squad. He got the entire 6 Nations to himself and we know what he's about by now.

Conversely, we have FOUR (count the feckers) opensides waiting in the wings in Watson, Barclay, Hardie and Blake, ALL of whom are potentially better choices than Cowan. What is the point of having these guys in the squad if not to see their playing chops.

Whilst I'm no big fan of Blair Cowan, he certainly has more claim to the 7 jersey than Blake. Please remember that Blake has barely featured in a professional rugby match, whereas Cowan has been almost ever present for Irish and Scotland this year.

I also don't buy the argument that "we know what Cowan can do, therefore try someone else" rings true for Blake either. Why not give me a game? No-one, and I mean no-one, knows what I can do for Scotland at 7? We also know what Barclay can do, so does he get excluded as well so we can experiment with players we know very little about on the Eve of the World Cup. I can't believe any Weegie fan, given the high opinion of the MFL, would advocate the 3rd/4th choice openside at Edinburgh getting precious gametime ahead of the World Cup.

The 7 jersey should be a three way contest between the three players who have performed strongly this season, and who are familiar with the players within the squad - Barclay, Watson and Cowan. With 5 warm-up games I would give Barclay and Watson 2 matches each, and Cowan the remaining fixture.

Re: Hardie and Blake you ask a very good question: "what is the point of having these guys in the squad"?
Call me suspicious, but I am sensing that you may have something of a fixed point of view on some of those players already.

Just to be clear - I am ignoring Blake. He ~~hasn't even~~ has only played a single club game for a Scottish franchise and has little recent pro experience to speak of. He won't be anywhere near a squad.

Barclay hasn't been in the international set up for years and Hardie hasn't ever. This is why it is worthwhile seeing how they cope with the transition. Are you honestly suggesting that it is not worth giving either of those players game time? Is it really not in your contemplation that one of those two (or both of them) may have something extra to offer the national team?

I am a fan of Watson, which is why I put him on my bench. I don't feel particularly strongly which openside starts as long as a new candidate does. I am concerned that given his injury problems, playing 40 minutes is probably sufficient for the first game.

by **RDW** Mon 10 Aug 2015, 09:45

Also worth noting Blake's come off the bench twice too (not that anyone noticed)...

by funnyExiledScot Mon 10 Aug 2015, 09:51

RDW_Scotland wrote:Also worth noting Blake's come off the bench twice too (not that anyone noticed)...

Details details.

I do actually remember Blake playing for Edinburgh. He didn't look too bad as a matter of fact, and pretty mobile. Reminded me a little bit of Ross Rennie in terms of playing style. Still, that all said, he hasn't played anything like enough rugby to be a genuine contender for the World Cup Squad, and I firmly believe that we should only be giving genuine contenders precious minutes of warm-up rugby.

by alive555 Mon 10 Aug 2015, 10:15

funnyExiledScot wrote:I have no fixed viewpoint on either of Blake or Hardie. I just judge players on how they perform on a rugby pitch, and how they perform in tandem with their team mates. This is the pre-World Cup squad, and I have nothing upon which to build a case for selecting either of these guys. You certainly won't get a full picture in a warm-up game with players trying to avoid injury. It's simply too late for these guys, that's all I'm saying. Hardie clearly has pedigree and if this was a summer tour, a year ago, I'd be delighted to see his capabilities in blue.

Re: Barclay, as you can read for yourself in the very post you've quoted, I would certainly involve him in these games. He's been on red hot form this year and has a bunch of international experience. In fact he's my front runner to play 7 against the Boks. I've said many times, if I were taking two 7s to the World Cup I'd take Barclay and Watson. That's picking one experienced international player on great form, and one up and coming youngster on great form. What's not to like.

For me I dont like excluding any player under your plan for 2 very good reasons ;-

1. he may be better than we have already (and there are enough games to find out some idea of how good he may be)
and more importantly
2. we may well get an injury so we need to know who can do what and under your plan we wouldnt know the answer to either of those 2 questions.

Under your plan Blake gets the nod and hes totally unproven unlike Hardie picard

by bsando Mon 10 Aug 2015, 10:19

1.Reid
2.Brown
3.Nel
4.Gray snr
5.Gilchrist
6.Denton
7.Blake
8.Wilson
9.Cusiter
10.Jackson
11.Hughes
12.Scott
13.Vernon
14.Seymour
15.Tonks

16.MacInally
17.Dickinson
18.Welsh
19.Gray Jnr
20.Ashe
21.SHC
22.Bennett
23.Hogg

My thoughts on warm ups are we have four games to give most of the squad a run out. I would like to see some of the younger players getting a shot such as hughes, hoyland, blake etc because although experience is vital I believe having a little bit of youth/spring chicken mentality in the squad can be a real moral booster in those tight situations. One little spark can light a bonfire.

For Ireland game I expect Ireland to field a fairly similar team to their last one with a few changes on the bench etc. I think Scotland should play a mix of old and new heads with one or two regular starters and a strong bench to come on when the s**t hits the fan (Which it will inevitably do I suspect).

by **George Carlin** Mon 10 Aug 2015, 10:23

What interests me is any suggestion that Watson has a greater claim to the third openside shirt than Hardie. I cannot see why that should be. They probably have had the same amount of rugby over the past year. In Watson's favour is his familiarity with his Edinburgh colleagues and (being charitable) his single cap but there is not a clear and obvious reason to think that one is the better player.

Making a squad is not some sort of 'reward for service'. It's a meritocracy. Let's hope Cotter gives us a look at a number of players in these matches. Couldn't give a hoot who wins them.

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 10 Aug 2015, 10:29

alive555 wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:I have no fixed viewpoint on either of Blake or Hardie. I just judge players on how they perform on a rugby pitch, and how they perform in tandem with their team mates. This is the pre-World Cup squad, and I have nothing upon which to build a case for selecting either of these guys. You certainly won't get a full picture in a warm-up game with players trying to avoid injury. It's simply too late for these guys, that's all I'm saying. Hardie clearly has pedigree and if this was a summer tour, a year ago, I'd be delighted to see his capabilities in blue.

Re: Barclay, as you can read for yourself in the very post you've quoted, I would certainly involve him in these games. He's been on red hot form this year and has a bunch of international experience. In fact he's my front runner to play 7 against the Boks. I've said many times, if I were taking two 7s to the World Cup I'd take Barclay and Watson. That's picking one experienced international player on great form, and one up and coming youngster on great form. What's not to like.

For me I dont like excluding any player under your plan for 2 very good reasons ;-

1. he may be better than we have already (and there are enough games to find out some idea of how good he may be)
and more importantly
2. we may well get an injury so we need to know who can do what and under your plan we wouldnt know the answer to either of those 2 questions.

Under your plan Blake gets the nod and hes totally unproven unlike Hardie

I would hope the reasons Blake was picked were similar to Adam Ashe, remember how surprised everyone was when he was selected and yet showed us his quality and in doing so forced his way into playing regularly for Glasgow. This said I think Blake is a bit of a different case as we were limited at 8 when Ashe came on the scene, we're not limited at 7, although the way players are selected for 7 you'd think we are (I'll never forgive Johnson for ruining Brown's career by wedging him in at 7 when we had other viable options *cough* Barclay *cough* Grant).

Now we have more of a choice. I know Cowan isn't everyone's cup of tea but I think he should play at least half of one match. I'd like to see if he's improved on penalty count. Barclay would always be my first choice for smart play. I've not watched a lot of Watson but from what I've seen he has great potential. I remember watching him in a Dragons game last season and thinking he's a cracker, good pace!

Hardie is a completely unknown quantity to me. Sounds a lot like Watson, so it'd be interesting to compare those two. I don't think Cowan will be pushed out of the squad unless he has absolute howlers in the warm-up games he plays. I guarantee it'll be more than one. On current knowledge it'd be Barclay, Cowan and Watson for me but I think it'd be good to see all of them working with Strauss, because we have to remember the backrow is a unit. When we had the killer b's on full functionality that gave us a great platform. Just a shame we didn't have the backs!

by **RDW** Mon 10 Aug 2015, 10:32

George Carlin wrote:What interests me is any suggestion that Watson has a greater claim to the third openside shirt than Hardie. I cannot see why that should be. They probably have had the same amount of rugby over the past year. In Watson's favour is his familiarity with his Edinburgh colleagues and (being charitable) his single cap but there is not a clear and obvious reason to think that one is the better player.

Making a squad is not some sort of 'reward for service'. It's a meritocracy. Let's hope Cotter gives us a look at a number of players in these matches. Couldn't give a hoot who wins them.

Ooft, wait until Radge sees this!

by jimbopip Mon 10 Aug 2015, 10:35

Guys,
Finally we have something to properly discuss, after months of repetition and general sprout- crapping Reminds me of Christmas dinner at the mother-in-laws'.

The thing we need to consider is; what are these warm up games for?

Either to let the first 23 play together and gel or to look at players who might possibly feature in a match day 23 at the WC.

I think it has to be, mainly, the second option. Cotter must know his preferred match day squad by now and he should be allowing players a fair chance to stake their claims. Remember the farce that was the Lions under SCW; players like Scott Murray were given ten minutes in a mid-week game and then discarded. we don't want any of that, thank you.

So; Nel, Coo, Toolis, Gilchrist, Hardie, Blake, Watson, Henners, SHC,Cooseater,Jackson, Scott, Dunbar, Vernon, Hoyland, Tonks and Hughes all deserve to be looked at. I have included players like Gilchrist and Jackson who are returning from injury and need to get a feel for playing a proper match.

The likes of; Dickinson, Ford, Grayx2, Strauss, Dancer, Seymour and Hogg are certainties and don't really need to feature much. I wouldn't risk injuring them, myself. If we are being honest, the first two group games are warm up matches: if we can't win them comfortably what chance have we got of making an impact in the knockout stages?

Personally, I want to see Henners, Cooseater and SHC all play and have blinders. Ditto Barclay, Blake, Hardie and Watson. That way there is every possibility that Frodo and Cowan will be taking part from the comfort of their sofas.

by **George Carlin** Mon 10 Aug 2015, 10:39

RDW_Scotland wrote:
George Carlin wrote:What interests me is any suggestion that Watson has a greater claim to the third openside shirt than Hardie. I cannot see why that should be. They probably have had the same amount of rugby over the past year. In Watson's favour is his familiarity with his Edinburgh colleagues and (being charitable) his single cap but there is not a clear and obvious reason to think that one is the better player.

Making a squad is not some sort of 'reward for service'. It's a meritocracy. Let's hope Cotter gives us a look at a number of players in these matches. Couldn't give a hoot who wins them.

Ooft, wait until Radge sees this!

I'll be hiding behind a sofa when that happens. Run

by alive555 Mon 10 Aug 2015, 10:45

Does anyone here think there is a snowballs chance of Blake, Hughes or Hoyland making the final WC squad?
If not can i suggest they play in the last game. The one after the squad is finalised, the Frog game. I guess Hoyland may be the only bolter ...

by **George Carlin** Mon 10 Aug 2015, 10:49

alive555 wrote:Does anyone here think there is a snowballs chance of Blake, Hughes or Hoyland making the final WC squad?
If not can i suggest they play in the last game. The one after the squad is finalised, the Frog game. I guess Hoyland may be the only bolter ...

Very difficult to see that any of them have a chance.

The other interesting player who might make the squad as a bolter is Jackson over Weir. Weir would correctly be distraught if that happened given that Jackson hasn't had a competitive game since last September but I wouldn't put it past Jackson to have a stormer in at least one of the games if he has any meaningful fitness.

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