Hardest Heavyweight Hitters - Top Ten

Been thinking about this in one of those idle moments when you're knackered but can't be bothered to get off the sofa and go to bed, so thought I'd post.

Who are the hardest heavyweight hitters of all time? Logically you'd have to go with shavers first although I think Big George runs him close. The rest are probably interchangeable depending on your viewpoint. One thing that makes this hard is the variation in size within one weight category - for example on a p4p basis you might say Marciano hits harder than Lewis, but then can you judge men from the same weight class on a p4p basis? Because the reality is that a man of Rockys size and weight cannot physically hit as hard as a 6'5" 240lb Lewis, so must come lower. Should he even be on the list on that basis - by that reasoning the likes of Vitali will be ahead too. Here's my initial list to get us started, can we decide on a final ten?

Ernie Shavers
George Foreman
Sonny Liston
Jack Dempsey 
Mike Tyson
Max Baer
Joe Louis
Lennox Lewis
Joe Frazier
Rocky Marciano 

I think Frank Bruno should be on there in place of the Rock...

Landed one left hook and left the more than sturdy Tyson rocking all over the place...

Smith and witherspoon said he punched harder than anyother heavy they'd faced...

How many times did he go the distance....???

Foreman would be top for me.......Don't think Larry gets up from a flush shot from George...

Seems okay the list though.

So your discounting Marciano on the basis of his size but have the similarly sized Dempsey at 4?

Imperial Ghosty wrote:So your discounting Marciano on the basis of his size but have the similarly sized Dempsey at 4?

That is true and I did consider that after posting, although Dempsey was a bit bigger than Rock. I'm not discounting Rocky anyway, he's on the list, I was just using him as the p4p example against Lewis as thats the biggest size disparity between any two men on the list.

marciano wore people down he wasn't a power hitter...Sure he nailed Walcott but Nunn nailed Kalambay too...

Bruno was more powerful..

Weaver was deadly too..

Personally I think Foreman is ahead of Shavers - certainly didn't let an opponent off the hook as often as often as Shavers did. Either way, the pair of them simply have to make the top five.

Marciano is a must, as are Dempsey and Louis. In particular, Louis was certainly the 'best' puncher of the lot, if not the hardest. The other five places could be taken up by a few different names, but the ones you've listed are all sound, Sugar Boy.

All exept Frazier, that is (sorry). Don't think he had the genuine power to be included here, would have someone such as Ruddock, Tua or Cooney in his place.

Tua probably deserves a shout

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:So your discounting Marciano on the basis of his size but have the similarly sized Dempsey at 4?

That is true and I did consider that after posting, although Dempsey was a bit bigger than Rock. I'm not discounting Rocky anyway, he's on the list, I was just using him as the p4p example against Lewis as thats the biggest size disparity between any two men on the list.

Would still say Marciano had the greater one punch power of the two regardless of size, Lewis wasn't capable of that Walcott KO

Cooney is a good call chris...that left hook....

However the fact he never fought anyone decent and won...makes you wonder just how potent it was opposed to Bruno who hurt and knocked out half decent fighters......

It's contentious though both had similar careers....really.

You're right about foreman though..paralysing hitter.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:So your discounting Marciano on the basis of his size but have the similarly sized Dempsey at 4?

That is true and I did consider that after posting, although Dempsey was a bit bigger than Rock. I'm not discounting Rocky anyway, he's on the list, I was just using him as the p4p example against Lewis as thats the biggest size disparity between any two men on the list.

Would still say Marciano had the greater one punch power of the two regardless of size, Lewis wasn't capable of that Walcott KO

That straight against Rahman would have had Walcott out of there. Maybe not the snap of Marciano's KO but the weight behind it.

Would have knocked Walcott down for the count but not sure he'd have knocked him spark out nor do I think he could break someones arm with a punch

Foreman and Shavers are a clear number one, would have to favour Foreman who proved his power to a greater extent

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:So your discounting Marciano on the basis of his size but have the similarly sized Dempsey at 4?

That is true and I did consider that after posting, although Dempsey was a bit bigger than Rock. I'm not discounting Rocky anyway, he's on the list, I was just using him as the p4p example against Lewis as thats the biggest size disparity between any two men on the list.

Would still say Marciano had the greater one punch power of the two regardless of size, Lewis wasn't capable of that Walcott KO

For crying out loud. That statement is simply laughable. Lennox was a huge hitter, If he hit you flush, its over. Once again all this ridiculous platitudes and hyperbole over a decidely average heavyweight. Rocky hit hard. Very hard. He caught JJW flush. If any HW with decent power landed a clean shot like rocky did, the result would be the same. Lets get some perspective here.

Lets get some perspective indeed Az or are you going to ruin yet another thread?

Personally I cant seperate Foreman and Shavers. Foreman was the better skilled finisher so if he had a man in trouble, he would nearly always finish it.

Bruno for all his faults cannot be faulted for his ko power. Tyson also and with both hands also making him always extremely dangerous.

But generally most hard hitting HW are very dangerous and very difficult seperating them. Getting hit by a 230lbs guy is no fun.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Lets get some perspective indeed Az or are you going to ruin yet another thread?

That depends on what you mean by ruin. Giving a counter opinion or back slapping agreement?

You know as well as me that you going down this route for the millionth time will get the thread blocked, your choice?

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Lets get some perspective indeed Az or are you going to ruin yet another thread?

That depends on what you mean by ruin. Giving a counter opinion or back slapping agreement?

I don't have any problem with you disagreeing, and I reckon nobody else does, either.

What I think people do object to, though, is the way you word your arguments as if certain people are stupid, as if they are here merely to have you patronize them, or as if they are somehow only disagreeing with you out of principle rather than being big and ugly enough to form their own opinions.

When it comes to Marciano, I think people are justified in being wary of you, wouldn't you say?

Imperial Ghosty wrote:You know as well as me that you going down this route for the millionth time will get the thread blocked, your choice?

I give my opinions and nothing else. Likewise you should give yours. You complaining before anything much has been said if in effect derailing the thread. Feel free to hype up Rocky by all means. But you should allow others the very same freedom to give their no so pleadant opinion on rocky and whoever else for that matter.

Fair's fair.

Maybe you should play by your own rules, Chris summed it up very nicely, your patronizing tone got very tiresome a long time ago

88Chris05 wrote:

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Lets get some perspective indeed Az or are you going to ruin yet another thread?

That depends on what you mean by ruin. Giving a counter opinion or back slapping agreement?

I don't have any problem with you disagreeing, and I reckon nobody else does, either.

What I think people do object to, though, is the way you word your arguments as if certain people are stupid, as if they are here merely to have you patronize them, or as if they are somehow only disagreeing with you out of principle rather than being big and ugly enough to form their own opinions.

When it comes to Marciano, I think people are justified in being wary of you, wouldn't you say?

I disagree. If I talk down to others its neither deliberate or meant to come across as so. For that I apologise. But when someone claims that if Lewis had hit JJW in the manner Rocky did, there would be a different end product is farcical imo. That is hyping Rocky to a ridiculous extent. If Bob Foster had hit JJW in the same way, the result would have been the same.

Rocky hit hard. Very hard. But lets not go overboard. Lennox decked and KO'd genuine and young HWs who weighed over 240lbs. He was a huge hitter. Why run down Lennox to big up rocky?

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Maybe you should play by your own rules, Chris summed it up very nicely, your patronizing tone got very tiresome a long time ago

Now who is ruining the thread?

See saying that Foster hits as hard as Marciano using your logic is farcical and running down Marciano just to try and prove a point, works both ways but intelligence clearly is not your strong point

Imperial Ghosty wrote:See saying that Foster hits as hard as Marciano using your logic is farcical and running down Marciano just to try and prove a point, works both ways but intelligence clearly is not your strong point

Jeez. Please point out where I said Bob Foster hit as hard as rocky? The simple fact is I didn't. If someone had a clean a punch on JJW's chin as ricky did, the result would be the same. A KO.

Before you question the intelligence of others perhaps you should look at yours first. Now please dont derail the thread ok?

No it wouldn't, you need to be able to generate sufficient power to knock somebody spark out, it's not something each and every person is capable of doing

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:See saying that Foster hits as hard as Marciano using your logic is farcical and running down Marciano just to try and prove a point, works both ways but intelligence clearly is not your strong point

Jeez. Please point out where I said Bob Foster hit as hard as rocky? The simple fact is I didn't. If someone had a clean a punch on JJW's chin as ricky did, the result would be the same. A KO.

Before you question the intelligence of others perhaps you should look at yours first. Now please dont derail the thread ok?

I question the intelligence of those stupider than I, now Az don't derail another thread, there's a good boy

Imperial Ghosty wrote:No it wouldn't, you need to be able to generate sufficient power to knock somebody spark out, it's not something each and every person is capable of doing

Its not only about power. I dare say Hagler could lift bigger weights than Hearns, but who was the bigger puncher? Its about the timing of the particular punch, the speed of delivery and the point of where it hit. Plus the point of the glove where maximum impact is met..

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:See saying that Foster hits as hard as Marciano using your logic is farcical and running down Marciano just to try and prove a point, works both ways but intelligence clearly is not your strong point

Jeez. Please point out where I said Bob Foster hit as hard as rocky? The simple fact is I didn't. If someone had a clean a punch on JJW's chin as ricky did, the result would be the same. A KO.

Before you question the intelligence of others perhaps you should look at yours first. Now please dont derail the thread ok?

I question the intelligence of those stupider than I, now Az don't derail another thread, there's a good boy

So....where did I say Foster hit as hard as Rocky?

Not everyone is capable of that though are they now, you can have all the timing and speed of delivery in the world but without the natural power to go with it it's meaningless.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Not everyone is capable of that though are they now, you can have all the timing and speed of delivery in the world but without the natural power to go with it it's meaningless.

I haven't said everyone was capable of that. Its not about natural power. Hearns only stopped less that 15% of him amateur opponents, and this was when amateur boxing was not as dire as it is now. When he turned pro he was taught how to deliver the ko blow. He had the timing and the ability to land correctly.

Yes he was taught how to utilise his power, proving my point thank you

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Yes he was taught how to utilise his power, proving my point thank you

His skills mate. Not his power.

The power was always there, you don't knock someone out with just timing

Imperial Ghosty wrote:The power was always there, you don't knock someone out with just timing

You dont ko someone just with power. For all his faults, Rocky always had his feet planted (couldn't do anything else) and primed to throw a punch with bad attitudes. He had great timing to deliver his suzy q from various angled. Plus he hit with the point of the fist where most damage can be inflicted. Power is the lowest of all factors.

Power is ultimately the most important factor, Mayweather can deliver a perfect punch but he still can't knock people out

For what it's worth, I think the answer lies somewhere in between what the two of you are saying. Of course natural power is important, as are things such as timing, acceleration at the optimum point, positioning and so on. I don't think you can make the distinction that either one is MORE important than the other because, let's not forget, nobody has ever conclusively proven exactly where it is that genuine one punch knockout power comes from. A short, stocky (to say the least) Tony Galento packed more single KO power than the Herculean-like Mike Weaver, who looked as if he was carved from marble and was better technically, too.

I've always believed that the saying 'punchers are born, not made' holds a lot of truth, but even then, as I said, I think you need to master things such as timing and leverage to maximize the God-given element.

Very good article concerning Marciano's punching power here :

http://cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/casey/MC_Marciano.htm

I reckon Sugar Boy has come up with a very credible list of names, ( though we could quibble for ever about the order, ) but one name I would have at least considered for a place among those ten would be Jess Willard. Whatever Jess didn't have, he did have a massive overhand right, which was feared back in the day. He pole axed Johnson with it, and he dislocated the neck of Bull Young, ( who died, as a result, ) with it, also. Might not quite displace any of Sugar Boy's picks, but he wouldn't be out of place if he sneaked in at the expense of, let's say, Frazier.

azania will have kittens, here, but if we're going to ponder Cooney's left hook we need also consider Galento's. Some swear that Two Ton Tony had a left hook as good as Frazier's, and given that he was probably the most poorly conditioned and least skilled of anybody who ever contested the title I can well believe that the man must have been able to hit like a mule. How else could he have ever been a legitimate contender ?

Pretty solid list here SBS. Not too much to quibble with although the order will always create debate.

For me, I think Foreman is hardest hitter on the list although the smaller Shavers had crushing power. Wouldn't want to get hit by either of them.

Maybe a shout for Tommy Morrison of a recent vintage? Stunning left hook when he landed it correctly. Bob Fitzsimmons for the old timers. I know he is a middleweight really but had a sickening dig on him. I think Baer should be pretty high on any list. A boxer, whose name escapes me for the moment, was tragically killed from brain injuries following a shellacking from Maxie in the 1930's. Knocked down Tommy Farr, something even Joe Louis couldn't manage. Real big puncher.

Incidentially, I shook Earnie Shavers hand many years ago when he was a "guest" doorman at a nightclub in Liverpool. My hand was still hurting 20 minutes later.

One name which might ruffle a few feathers but is worth considering is Sam Langford. Although tiny by heavyweight standards Sam packed a serious dig. The testimonials of guys like Jeannette, Mc Vea and Wills all testify to his power with one of them Jeannette maintaining it was like being hit with a baseball bat and incomparable with anything else he faced.

Fireman Jim Flynn who faced pretty much everyone of his era including Burns, Johnson and most tellingly Dempsey always maintained Sam hit hardest of the lot. For me the testimonials of some decent heavyweights like this cannot be readily overlooked.

Personally i would find a place for Joe Choynski, maybe in place of Joe Frazier.

Choynski would have to feature lower than Fitz and Langford for me, regardless of size they both carried genuine heavyweight punch power

Yeah i would maybe put Fitz in for Lewis just ahead of Choynski, Marciano then Langford.

think the klit bros proberly deserve a shot when it comes to KO power

eddyfightfan wrote:think the klit bros proberly deserve a shot when it comes to KO power

I dont know. I dont see them having concussive ko power. They usually wear down their opponents before KOing them.

Its very interesting when people talk about Ernie Shavers being the hardest hitting heavyweight of all time, because when i look at his record i can't see a peak top 10 fighter who he knocked out. He tried to slug it out with a very average boxer called Ron Stander and got KO. Jerry Quarry had no fear of his punching what so ever, and KO out in the 1st round, and there others. Surely if he was a hard a puncher as people say how come the 2 boxers i mention mixed it with him and KOed him?

George Hotel1895 wrote:Its very interesting when people talk about Ernie Shavers being the hardest hitting heavyweight of all time, because when i look at his record i can't see a peak top 10 fighter who he knocked out. He tried to slug it out with a very average boxer called Ron Stander and got KO. Jerry Quarry had no fear of his punching what so ever, and KO out in the 1st round, and there others. Surely if he was a hard a puncher as people say how come the 2 boxers i mention mixed it with him and KOed him?

He was a big puncher but a poor boxer (in relative terms).

azania wrote:

George Hotel1895 wrote:Its very interesting when people talk about Ernie Shavers being the hardest hitting heavyweight of all time, because when i look at his record i can't see a peak top 10 fighter who he knocked out. He tried to slug it out with a very average boxer called Ron Stander and got KO. Jerry Quarry had no fear of his punching what so ever, and KO out in the 1st round, and there others. Surely if he was a hard a puncher as people say how come the 2 boxers i mention mixed it with him and KOed him?

He was a big puncher but a poor boxer (in relative terms).

Because it's about hard punchers George not great chins. Shavers liked to let it all hang out so was very open to anyone who was brave enough to mix it with him.

George Hotel1895 wrote:Its very interesting when people talk about Ernie Shavers being the hardest hitting heavyweight of all time, because when i look at his record i can't see a peak top 10 fighter who he knocked out. He tried to slug it out with a very average boxer called Ron Stander and got KO. Jerry Quarry had no fear of his punching what so ever, and KO out in the 1st round, and there others. Surely if he was a hard a puncher as people say how come the 2 boxers i mention mixed it with him and KOed him?

It's on thing having power, it's another thing having the ability to land with that power

azania wrote:

eddyfightfan wrote:think the klit bros proberly deserve a shot when it comes to KO power

I dont know. I dont see them having concussive ko power. They usually wear down their opponents before KOing them.

'Pound for pound' (how I hate that term) they probably don't hit as hard as someone like Sam (no relation to Bonnie) Langford, but I don't doubt that the most likely punch harder than him on a one to one basis.

Ernie Shavers
George Foreman
David Tua
Jack Dempsey
Mike Tyson
Frank Bruno
Sonny Liston
Joe Louis
Lennox Lewis
Joe Frazier
Rocky Marciano

Steven_89 wrote:Ernie Shavers
George Foreman
David Tua
Jack Dempsey
Mike Tyson
Frank Bruno
Sonny Liston
Joe Louis
Lennox Lewis
Joe Frazier
Rocky Marciano

I'm sure thats 11...