Will Toulon make it Four in a Row?

First topic message reminder :

Pool 5: Bath Rugby, RC Toulon, Leinster Rugby, Wasps


That is, on first glance, a "Pool of Death". All four clubs made the 1/4 finals last season and played each other at various stages of the season. Toulon are most definitely rebuilding, Bath and Wasps are improving sides and Leinster have parted company with their Head Coach after what was for them a disappointing season. All four are past winners of the title.

Now some on here seem to think that Wasps will be whipping boys and will give up on this competition. With their additional recruitment I cannot see that and feel that they will be extremely hard to beat at home. Last season neither Bath nor Leinster won away to Wasps. Meanwhile all three of those sides should feel they can beat Toulon when they host them.

I struggle to see Toulon securing enough points to gain a home 1/4 final, and would not be surprised if they failed to win the group. As there is a good chance that the runner-up in this group will not make the 1/4s, that could see them knocked out early.

Over to you.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Fanster wrote:

I don't care that he's been there 10 years, I care that he has made a profit this year (I'm trying so hard not to laugh when I type that btw). IF he proves you can make money then others will come and try to make money, I'm not sure if the Wasps buyers are that way inclined, I don't know enough about them or the deal, but it is a worrying one off considering others will come and it certainly will not be a one off!

Exactly. You don't care about the facts that are being posted. Because you cannot debate prpoerly.

Why would rugby profit not become millions, I can guarentee someone will make a million sooner or later, then 2, then 5 etc...

Of the 5 clubs how many opened the entirity of their books for a good old fashioned poke around?

pass. Don't understand why it's relevant.

AGAIN I'll ask you to not twist the argument and just reply to the facts, I don't care that Boudjellal has been at Toulon for 10 years because it isn't relevant to the future of club rugby, or the footballisation of club rugby, or as we started on the subject of Toulons transfer trends in recent years.

You really don't understand why club boasting profits but unwilling to allow their books to be viewed in their entirity is relevant to a debate about club profitability

Ok mate I'm going to leave it there, youve wriggled enough for one day, catch you later maybe when you want to come back with an actual point you want to discuss, without going around the houses.

I'd say the reason why they are attracted to rugby is because it will cost less than a fairly reasonably successful football club. Not to many football clubs make a profit by the way!

Sin é wrote:I'd say the reason why they are attracted to rugby is because it will cost less than a fairly reasonably successful football club. Not to many football clubs make a profit by the way!

Not official club profit anyway, making the owners money is a different story

Mourad is born and bred Toulonnais. He genuinely loves that club. And is worth quite a bit less than what other millionaire backers are worth.

Chunky Norwich wrote:Mourad is born and bred Toulonnais. He genuinely loves that club. And is worth quite a bit less than what other millionaire backers are worth.

Why did he say this in 2011 then:

"I will stay on for three more years" he has said.
"After that, I will leave when I have achieved my goals of securing a good sponsor, building a new stadium and developing our academy."

Sin é wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Mourad is born and bred Toulonnais. He genuinely loves that club. And is worth quite a bit less than what other millionaire backers are worth.

Why did he say this in 2011 then:

"I will stay on for three more years" he has said.
"After that, I will leave when I have achieved my goals of securing a good sponsor, building a new stadium and developing our academy."

In his defence that sounds like a reasonable guy doing what he can for his club, and willing to leave the in a good state of play, the question begs, what happened within those 3 years to make him decide to do this?

Could it be the meeting and appointment of Bernad Laporte after his political ambitions failed had something to do with it?

Sin é wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Mourad is born and bred Toulonnais. He genuinely loves that club. And is worth quite a bit less than what other millionaire backers are worth.

Why did he say this in 2011 then:

"I will stay on for three more years" he has said.
"After that, I will leave when I have achieved my goals of securing a good sponsor, building a new stadium and developing our academy."

What has that quote got to do with what I said?

I have been away from this site for quite a while but see the same old wails against professional sport remain, without much of an alternative provided other than build in qualifying and funding advantages for 'smaller nations'.
I don't see much objection to the US and China winning consistently most of the medals in the olympics. Professional sports are a complete social indulgence compared to the real issues in the world.

Perhaps 'to level the playing field' France and England should just enter four teams into Euro competitions, such as for the RFU the old North, Midlands, South West & South East teams, which they originally wanted to achieve with just EQ players.
Then watch English and French club fans turn off and the the TV deals dwindle and the smaller nations then receive a fraction of the revenue.
Sport has funny way of dealing with dominant teams and no team lasts forever.

Toulon struggling in the T14 right now, having lost 4 of their 7 matches and slipped into the bottom half of the T14 table.

They have just a home fixture with Montpelier to bed in new players post RWC before opening their defence of the title, but some consolation in knowing their opponents, Bath, are also misfiring.

Their front row still looks weak with Hayman having not been replaced well enough - a difficult task I accept! Without O'Connell as well their set piece may wobble IMO.

1.Mennini
2.Guirado
3.Ma'afu
4.Mikautadze
5.Manoa
6.Gorgodze/Lobbe
7.Armitage
8.Vermuelen

9.Tillous-Borde
10.Michalak

11.Habana
12.Giteau/Nonu
13.Basteraud/Mermoz
14.Tuisova
15.Armitage

16.Etrillard
17.Chiocci
18.Stevens
19.Taofifenua/Suta
20.Juan Smith
21.Pellisie
22.Quade Cooper
23.Drew Mitchell

Their back row resources are ridiculous with Armitage, Juan Smith, Gorgodze, Manoa, Vermuelen and Fernandez Lobbe to pick from. As such Manoa will likely play second row with POC missing. Gorgodze could also be used as lock cover from the bench.

In open play I expect that they will still extremely strong, especially at the break down. Their set-piece could be vulnerable however with Ma'afu and Stevens at TH plus losing POC as a line-out leader and jumper.

They also lack an exceptional goal kicker without Halfpenny.

Still a ridiculous amount of talent and experience but I don't think they will have the same platform as previous seasons to launch it from.

Will Michilak be OK after that horrible leg injury he got against Ireland? Looked pretty traumatic...

Are there any Toulon fans on here? It would be interesting to hear their view on the Club v Country issue.

As a Toulon fan I guess they are over the moon with the club success but whats their view on the claims its damaging the National game by them fielding a team full (almost) of non French players.

yappysnap wrote:Will Michilak be OK after that horrible leg injury he got against Ireland? Looked pretty traumatic...

Evewn if he is OK, I would expect Giteau to be at 10 and Nonu 12

POC says he could be out for up to 8 months although could be as low as 4 mths. If it is 8 months then he misses pretty much the entire season

http://www.the42.ie/paul-oconnell-eight-months-hamstring-2421310-Nov2015/

LondonTiger wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Will Michilak be OK after that horrible leg injury he got against Ireland? Looked pretty traumatic...

Evewn if he is OK, I would expect Giteau to be at 10 and Nonu 12

yes Michalak will be pretty much a bench warmer or start for minor games (the likes of Agen away).

Montpellier, Clermomt and Racing might be a bit better than this Toulon team. You could probably shut Toulon down by executing Gatlandball to great effect.

I'll ask the local pharmacies for a tip and get back with my view later....

looks like Cooper made another U turn and is on his way to Toulon now.

whocares wrote:looks like Cooper made another U turn and is on his way to Toulon now.

I think Montpellier, with their coach and Springbok players could be one of the strongest - though with Toulon coming down a notch then it might finally be Clermont's year. As a Frenchman who do you rate as having the strongest squad? My Top14 knowledge isn't the greatest but it seems the current top 4 and Toulon will be the strongest.

mikey_dragon wrote:

whocares wrote:looks like Cooper made another U turn and is on his way to Toulon now.

I think Montpellier, with their coach and Springbok players could be one of the strongest - though with Toulon coming down a notch then it might finally be Clermont's year. As a Frenchman who do you rate as having the strongest squad? My Top14 knowledge isn't the greatest but it seems the current top 4 and Toulon will be the strongest.

in terms of squad, Toulon remains certainly the best but not sure all those players will fit nicely and since Wilkinson left they remain very much dependent on Giteau to organise their backline and they can suffer against sides that make them run a bit more...Racing also has a great squad on paper but they rarely tick as a team and I start to suspect this is down to some poor and negative coaching . Clermont has not made huge signings (appart from flip van der merwe) but they remain a quality side and still play the best rugby around here (at least for a neutral).
I expect Clermont and Toulon to be in the top two positions at the end of the season. Racing to be 3rd. Toulouse and Montpelier close 4th and 5th with either castres,Stade Français or hopefully Bordeaux on the 6th position. Agen and Oyonnax to get relegated.

Has there been any recent news regarding the raids on Toulon pharmacies?

also any news on the Steffon Armitage assault allegations?

LondonTiger wrote:Has there been any recent news regarding the raids on Toulon pharmacies?

also any news on the Steffon Armitage assault allegations?

Steffon was initially judged back in february and due to "lack of clarity / grey areas around the events" the court decided to continue the investigations (which is odd to me as normally when you go to the court it means you have enough evidence to convict someone...) since then no news.

with regards of the pharmacies, the only investigation am aware that is still going on is for the abuse / forgery of blank prescriptions (given by the RCT doctor for emergencies) and the fraud to national insurance that goes with it. that was a month ago, no news since , no judgement planned as far as am aware.

whocares wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Has there been any recent news regarding the raids on Toulon pharmacies?

also any news on the Steffon Armitage assault allegations?

Steffon was initially judged back in february and due to "lack of clarity / grey areas around the events" the court decided to continue the investigations (which is odd to me as normally when you go to the court it means you have enough evidence to convict someone...) since then no news.

with regards of the pharmacies, the only investigation am aware that is still going on is for the abuse / forgery of blank prescriptions (given by the RCT doctor for emergencies) and the fraud to national insurance that goes with it. that was a month ago, no news since , no judgement planned as far as am aware.

There's only one thing they'd be after from the pharmacist, and no it isn't painkillers .

As there have been allegations of mass use of them prior to games (and Steffon's defence against the failed drugs test) painkillers may be exactly what they would be after.